Reputation Gone

[Kakerate]

Whats the reasoning there? before I had a few green orbs, now I'm just a 0XP level 1. how can anyone have faith in divine insight from a level 1!? ;-;

 

[deepstrasz]

Honestly, I would disable both rep and experience/level for my profile/account.
Anyways, Archian wrote that the rep to experience calculation for all accounts is still underway.

BETA ENDS March 12 (2021) - [TODAY]

Check the bottom of the site once you've selected a post. How/where?

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[Ralle]

Experience will be recalculating for at least 4 more hours.

Read more on why rep is gone here:

HIVE 3 Remoosed Beta

Have you ever taken a look my HIVE changelog? Not much has changed since the beginning of 2018. That's because I have been working on the next major version of The Hive Workshop since then. Today is a big day... For me at least. I have waited three years to finally show you what I am working...

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[Kakerate]

Being mobile friendly is good and all, but I think I liked the aesthetic of the orbs more than an XP bar. Maybe my thoughts on it will change idk. Site looks great otherwise though.

 

[Chaosy]

Not a big fan of this but I also realize that I am no longer the target audience.

When I spent large chunks of my spare time modding rep was a motivating factor for me.
It could only be earned from others, in a way it was a way to show how much a person had done for the community.

If rep was replaced with reactions and that was the only way to get experience, fine, it's just a reskin then.

• Posts are a completely useless metric without validation that someone found them useful
• Same goes for threads
• Submitting a resource shows objective contribution to some extent, but this is redundant. A resource will get rep/reactions and offers experience that way.

You can argue that experience is not a 1 to 1 replacement, and is not supposed to represent what rep did. Similar to how post-count says something about a user, but not how helpful they have been.

In short, the experience is a participation reward instead of a performance reward. Sad.

 

[pyf]

Personally, I see the Level xx thing as being a homage / reference to the Elite Tauren Chieftain band; and I am very happy that my Rep points are gone.

 

[MasterBlaster]

With reputation points, I often got the impression that some users, especially the newer ones, either didn't know they existed or simply didn't care. The main reason for it was that the system was a bit out of the way and thus harder to notice/remember about, which obviously could be fixed by tweaking the site's layout, but even then...

Likes are simply a lot more intuitive than reputation - you see a resource/post/whatever that you like/agree with/find helpful/etc. and you just click that Like button. If you want to you can choose a different reaction, but let's be real, we're a bunch of "boomers" here anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if most folks just use the default "Like". And that's it, you don't have to think how many points you should/want to give or if you want to write a comment to along with them. You're also not limited by some cooldown. It's faster, easier, simpler. That's a huge plus.

The goal should be to incentivize people to interact with each other, because it motivates people to be helpful. And "Likes" are a step in that direction.

 

[Scias]

I liked that you could write a little note along the reputation points you were giving, and completely agree with Chaosy.

Not sure if it was a good idea in a place that already gives you very little reward for your work to remove the little you were given this far.

 

[Daffa]

There's no perfect solutions, and nostalgia will always intervene. I'd say each serves it's reasons, and I understand why Ralle and Archian had to make such decisions.

Ever since Hive 2, Rep is more for the old school folks for most of the time. For newcomers, they are not really attached to the system because of how it's made (as MasterBlaster said, "out of the way"). So, in regards to future users, it is a step forward.

If this is old me being rep fanatic, I'm totally gonna scream with reps getting removed. However, I think it's time to move on and help the team getting the site adjusted with future systems.

 

[Archian]

In a way EXP is REP. Think of it this way: The rep button has changed into a reaction button. Everyone now got a "rep" power of 5 (instead of the previous max at 4) and the line of orbs simply became a straight line. But instead of having a crapton of colored orbs, you get a colored line with a number on. The orbs could change color, but so does the EXP bar depending on your reputation points/experience points - like the old orbs. Everyone who gives you a positive reaction is like giving you rep points in the old days.

You can still get rep (EXP) by winning contests, but now as a bonus you also get rep (EXP) when you post or submit a resource. This should encourage people to post more i.e. people get more replies, comments, more resources and more activity. Besides, you also need WAY more EXP to gain a level, so getting 1 EXP per post (off-topic excluded btw) isn't really that bad. You would have to post 40.000 times to get to Ralle's level for instance. And don't forget we have a rule against spam.

In my opinion, The level system does show performance AND participation. The name just changed.

 

[_lycan]

I like this system more than rep honestly

 

[Scias]

In my opinion, The level system does show performance AND participation. The name just changed.

The issue is exactly that it's not separated any longer, simple 10 posts is equally rewarding as hard work it takes to put into resources or even submitting a tutorial. If your goal is to have high "reputation" with the current system you must not make resources (since it's a waste of time) but instead write as many messages as you can on the forums. Post, basically spamming is heavily rewarded with the system (especially since you might even be able to farm likes along with it), much more rewarding than working on useful resources that can take hours and days.

I'm not saying everyone cares or cared about the reputation points and it was a big deal, I personally didn't, but I've just seen websites go with that route and seen members compete for top reputation by actually creating content that would earn them reputation. I think same was probably the case with Hive at some point but with how long the websites been up competition probably died off, and reputation became less of a important thing.

Also it doesn't have to mean that people will necessarily spam the forums, it's just that subtly you at this point get absolutely no acknowledgement for your good work from the website side of things, since your work from the website point equals to 10 posts you can write in couple of minutes, and it's only the positive feedback of the community that'll give you some sort of a rewarding satisfactory feeling of accomplishing something useful for the community that people like.

 

[Ralle]

Besides,

The issue is exactly that it's not separated any longer, simple 10 posts is equally rewarding as hard work it takes to put into resources or even submitting a tutorial. If your goal is to have high "reputation" with the current system you must not make resources (since it's a waste of time) but instead write as many messages as you can on the forums. Post, basically spamming is heavily rewarded with the system (especially since you might even be able to farm likes along with it), much more rewarding than working on useful resources that can take hours and days.

That's something we can change. The balancing isn't final.

We can make a resource give you 20-50 points while a post still just gives 1.

 

[Scias]

Besides,

That's something we can change. The balancing isn't final.

We can make a resource give you 20-50 points while a post still just gives 1.

Hm, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to also make achievements sometime down the road.
For example:
Upload X resources = rewarded with X experience and an achievement on your profile.
Get 5 star rating on X amount of resources = rewarded with X amount of experience and achievement on your profile.

This could reward both active posting on the forum and creation of resources and tutorials, and it would balance things out a bit more.

Also I'd love it if there was further customization of rank, and it could be done via the experience system and for some requirements to have X amount of resources contributed.
For example:
Tinker rank icon = Requires you to have uploaded X amount of code resources.

 

[Ralle]

Every resource gives you 10 experience today. I thought you were arguing that it wasn't enough.

 

[Archian]

Get 5 star rating on X amount of resources = rewarded with X amount of experience and achievement on your profile.

Well, we do plan on bringing Director's Cut rating back (6 star rating). I suppose we can give somesort of EXP reward for that. DC resources get their own bagde, which kind of works as an achievement in itself.

As previously stated: We also plan on making certain features/customization available once you reach certain levels simillar to Rank icons.

But I do like the idea of unlocking rank icons by another criteria like having X resources in category Y.

 

[Scias]

Every resource gives you 10 experience today. I thought you were arguing that it wasn't enough.

Yeah I was just suggesting some alternatives to how to balance it out, since you mentioned the current system might be rebalanced and resources could end up giving more experience.

Well, we do plan on bringing Director's Cut rating back (6 star rating). I suppose we can give somesort of EXP reward for that. DC resources get their own bagde, which kind of works as an achievement in itself.

View attachment 375528

As previously stated: We also plan on making certain features/customization available once you reach certain levels simillar to Rank icons.

But I do like the idea of unlocking rank icons by another criteria like having X resources.

Oh what I meant is like an achievements tab on your profile, something like this:

 

[deepstrasz]

Post, basically spamming is heavily rewarded with the system (especially since you might even be able to farm likes along with it), much more rewarding than working on useful resources that can take hours and days.

Rep also could be spammed on user posts once in 24hs.

Oh what I meant is like an achievements tab on your profile, something like this:

So, automated medals basically.

 

[Scias]

So, automated medals basically.

Yeah, the difference would be that it doesn't display under your profile whenever you post (<--), it would be easier to get, and the requirements for each achievement would be very clear and specific. To tie it together with my previous suggestion to make customized ranks unlocked by experience/amount of contributions/specific contributions, certain rank icons and flags could be unlocked only if you have specific achievement(s) unlocked.

This would tie up quite a bit of rewards, unlockable customizations and goals for contributors, making it a bit more rewarding to contribute.

 

[Kakerate]

Rep also could be spammed on user posts once in 24hs.

So, automated medals basically.

iirc The cooldown was post based. You rep someone N times, and you can't rep them again until you rep someone else. This was problematic in that someone consistently solving your fix requests wouldn't be credited each time. Either way, the XP system is all in all pretty good. We need a teal color for a level though! I miss teal asthetic.

 

[Vinz]

That's something we can change. The balancing isn't final.

We can make a resource give you 20-50 points while a post still just gives 1.

Perhaps 25 upon posting a bundle, and another 25 upon approval.

Or maybe 10 base experience per resource, because some bundles have several.

 

[Ralle]

Perhaps 25 upon posting a bundle, and another 25 upon approval.

Substandard, pending, approved all give 10 experience. Restricted and deleted give 0.

 

[Vinz]

Substandard, pending, approved all give 10 experience. Restricted and deleted give 0.

Indeed, what do you think about the proposed values?

On second thought, my approval experience proposal would work to the exclusion of edits like Ujimasa's, which are in Substandard. So I'm not sure it's worth pursuing.

We can make a resource give you 20-50 points while a post still just gives 1.

I actually misread what you said here as 20-50 per bundle. 20-50 per resource sounds good.

 

[Linaze]

Besides,

That's something we can change. The balancing isn't final.

We can make a resource give you 20-50 points while a post still just gives 1.

At least that would incentivize artists in a classic THW manner.

 

[The_Silent]

Yeah I was just suggesting some alternatives to how to balance it out, since you mentioned the current system might be rebalanced and resources could end up giving more experience.

I really like the idea of achievements, but I think they should probably be tied to more meaningful things than post counts that already gives experience.

Preferably something that helps the community.

So, automated medals basically.

Somewhat. But they should not be actual medels. I think it would devalue medals if medals where on the same level.

 

[pyf]

Should 'Wow' be understood as being a positive reaction, or should it be considered as being a negative one?

 

[Ralle]

Wow is neutral. Like a 0-rep.

 

[Archian]

Wow, should be considered a positive reaction.

 

[Ralle]

I think being neutral is good. because I can go either way. Both as in "Wow, did he just say that?" and "Wow, this is amazing".

 

[Archian]

But if someone submits an awesome resource and gets a WOW reaction, their EXP doesn't increase.

 

[Ralle]

But if someone submits an awesome resource and gets a WOW reaction, their EXP doesn't increase.

WOW doesn't look happy at all.

 

[Yours Truly]

Likewise, Angry should be -1, being a clear negative reaction and all.

 

[Scias]

I advise against substracting experience.
This is a creators safe haven website where we all hold hands together and express our deep support of one another and spread positivity to further motivate and inspire productivity among each other, no negativity should be allowed in this sanctuary.

 

[deepstrasz]

Substandard, pending, approved all give 10 experience. Restricted and deleted give 0.

Moving to Deleted and Restricted takes those points back, right?

 

[pyf]

Wow is neutral. Like a 0-rep.

I think being neutral is good. because I can go either way. Both as in "Wow, did he just say that?" and "Wow, this is amazing".

0-reps derived their meaning from the comment associated to them

I advise against substracting experience.
This is a creators safe haven website where we all hold hands together and express our deep support of one another and spread positivity to further motivate and inspire productivity among each other, no negativity should be allowed in this sanctuary.

We have traded a game of Reps for another game of Levels/exp; that is all there is to it imho. We are simply in the process of learning how to play this new game and continue to have fun together.

I myself went from lvl 26 to lvl 25 at some point, and it did not bother me at all.

 

[Kakerate]

Things that are useful are usually distinct from things that are 'funny'. I find it odd that funny gives an XP while 'Wow' does not. Maybe a 'Wow' with an eyebrow raised would be neutral, but really knowing that it is neutral would just make me use Love instead of it. I'd also like if Love was 2XP, i mean i took all the time to move from the Like button to select Love, it must've been a 2XP worthy comment!
I think it'd be funny if Angry had a negative point value, even if it was greater than -1.

 

[Ralle]

Things that are useful are usually distinct from things that are 'funny'. I find it odd that funny gives an XP while 'Wow' does not.

@Archian do what you want!

Moving to Deleted and Restricted takes those points back, right?

Yep.

 

[Vinz]

Case in point:

 

[Hermit]

Do we get a notification when someone unlikes our post or changes their reaction (e.g. from Like to Love)?

 

[Archian]

Case in point:
View attachment 375735

Wow reaction now gives + EXP.

 

[Kakerate]

I liked then wow'd your comment @Hermit. Did you get 2 notifications?

 

[Hermit]

I liked then wow'd your comment @Hermit. Did you get 2 notifications?

No, I only got the second one (Wow).

 

[The_Silent]

The (untintional?) side effect of this system is that I'm far more enclined to "react" to peoples posts, thereby giving a lot more xp than I would ever give rep . Haha

 

[pyf]

This is imho intentional.

Leveling up requires more EXP with each new level. Therefore, newcomers will level up very quickly if people react to their posts. It will therefore encourage these newcomers to stay, and to post more (hopefully).

 

[Kyrbi0]

I rather like the system, overall.

I do kinda think "Love" should be different than "Like" (2xp vs. 1xp, perhaps).

 

[Archian]

Feedback is appreicated:

UPDATED EXP System FAQ

 

[pyf]

[...] I do kinda think "Love" should be different than "Like" (2xp vs. 1xp, perhaps).

idk... Who still remembers the launch of Hive 2, when rep power was brought to 1 for everybody? (except for mods and admins ofc). Rep and xp are imho the same thing.


** Update **

Experience will be recalculating for at least 4 more hours. [...]

@Ralle:
fyi, @HappyTauren is still at Lvl 6

 

[Rui]

• Agreed with Wow reaction giving reputation.
  
  
• For resources, I think +10 is fine. Reactions should do the rest. Perhaps give it a certain extra if approved or downloaded x times? Rewarding good ratings is harder because ratings float, even if in practice they don't change much.