Reaper or firebat?

[punwisp]

I dont like the reaper.... the duel wielding jumper seems... eh

 

[JanSze]

i dont know them xD

 

[PurplePoot]

Reaper really isn't replacing Firebat, Marauder is.

Either way, I like Reaper more, since they're much more dynamic, and of course original.

 

[Zombie]

I'm gonna miss the good old firebat, even tough it was nothing special.

 

[PrinceofIce]

I like the reaper's jetpacks that allow them to go over cliffs. So I picked reaper .

Plus i never really liked the firebat.

 

[punwisp]

Reapers remind me of the jumper guys in dawn of war, and they sorta look like the space marine ones too...

 

[Mechanical Man]

And how do you consider to counter zealots without firebats then?

 

[punwisp]

magic Beans?????

 

[PurplePoot]

Mechanical Man, Medics can heal from inside bunkers now. Terrans also have Marauders, and not to mention the fact that bunkering up or rushing Vultures worked fine anyways.

I never found I built Firebats, unless against Zerg, and I was doing the rushing (M&M&Firebat rushes vs Zerg are FTW).

 

[Mechanical Man]

Still, marine filled bunkers fall quickly before too many zealots and vultures needs factory which can be built when is already too late.

 

[AbbaSou]

Um, are we talking about SC or SC2? In SC2 medics cannot heal from inside bunkers as they don't exist. They've been integrated into the dropship to become the Medivac. Infantry like Ghosts can still use all abilities from inside bunker, though.

Also, Vultures don't exist in SC2. They've been replaced by Jackals, which most closely resemble Firebats, actually. They are a kind of "buggy" with a single top-mounted flamethrower. The way I see it, the Vulture is most closely associated with the new small mech/infantry Marauder, while the Firebat's replacement is a Vulture-like Jackal. It's an interesting switch-up that will make for new strategies and counters. SC2 will definitely be played differently than SC1.


Now, back on topic - REAPER!! He's a new kind of unit, with interesting mechanics and a neat role for which he's perfectly suited.

 

[PurplePoot]

They've been integrated into the dropship to become the Medivac.

Ah, good point, forgot that got changed in the recent build.

Also, Vultures don't exist in SC2.

That was about SC, I was saying that in SC there were other ways to counter Zealot Rush than simply Firebats, and will likely be again. Jackals will probably be terrible versus Zealot Rushes, due to their anti-clump nature (Firebats also had massive concussive damage, but less AoE), though I may be wrong.

Still, marine filled bunkers fall quickly before too many zealots and vultures needs factory which can be built when is already too late.

Bunkers didn't fall too fast, and vultures can be teched to quite quickly.

It especially helped if you could wall the ramp.

 

[Arvedui]

I chose Reapers cause Duel-Wielding is just awesome, plus jump packs.

I never really used Firebats. They were usually useless, but then again I play mostly Protoss. Photon Cannons rape firebats.

Also, I like the reapers cause they can attack you while on a cliff, whereas firebats couldn't.
I don't really see why you chose Firebats and Reapers to compare but w/e.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Reapers are 20x cooler than firebats and at minimum 30x more usefull... Firebats sucked against every unit in the game except Zerglings... That's all they countered were Zerglings!!! So out of about 30 units in the game, they were only good against 1... Reapers are good against lots of stuff!

 

[punwisp]

I would rather have jumpsuit firebats, that had increased damage, and good counter against like hydras and lings! Reapers remind me too much of the jumpers in dawn of war.
the duel wielding really threw me out of interest... Seriously, carry a freakin bazooka or something we have never seen a unit with a bazooka in this game!

 

[Tyranid]

Reapers remind me too much of the jumpers in dawn of war.

. . . Assault Marines. . .

 

[punwisp]

yes! assault marines, i forgot the names of them lol

 

[LordDz]

An old smoking veteran or a pack of suicide boys who have no future? Hmm..

I vote on the boys!

 

[Ice_Eagle]

I would rather have jumpsuit firebats, that had increased damage, and good counter against like hydras and lings!

Exactly what I was thinking. But what about a system like in DoW where you can upgrade a certain guy with, oh, I dunno, a mini-gun or missile launcher, etc.

reapers remind me too much of the jumpers in dawn of war...

Now that you mention it, they kinda do. And again, they're Assault Marines, not Jumpers.

Seriously, carry a freakin bazooka or something we have never seen a unit with a bazooka in this game!

This game really lacks some Infantry-carried explosives.

 

[redmarine]

Exactly what I was thinking. But what about a system like in DoW where you can upgrade a certain guy with, oh, I dunno, a mini-gun or missile launcher, etc.



Now that you mention it, they kinda do. And again, they're Assault Marines, not Jumpers.



This game really lacks some Infantry-carried explosives.

The zerg got a unit which is explosive. Anyway perhaps we could make a custom melee with more explosive stuff in it.

 

[Ice_Eagle]

I meant a non suicidal such as a Rocketeer or a Grenadier etc. instead of Banelings and Infested Terrans.

 

[RoughneckLeader]

In SCII, infested terrans are gone; theres zombieeees (infested marines basiclly).

Well remember, Starcraft is based off of Warhammer 40k.

 

[punwisp]

In SCII, infested terrans are gone; theres zombieeees (infested marines basiclly).

Well remember, Starcraft is based off of Warhammer 40k.

How? Theres similarties, but there are SO many games and movies that have the same kind of concept, warhammer 40k didn't invent the idea.

40k uses a similar idea, aliens vs predators uses a similar idea(with a highly advanced, a modern advanced and a creature swarming army) Halo uses the idea, starship troopers uses a similar idea, starcraft uses a similar idea.

Seriously, 40k didnt invent elves, or orcs(orks). These different games might see 40k and sprout up a idea, but most of these games and movies arn't based off of 40k, its a common idea for 3 races. And if you looked at the "original" version of what starcraft was gonna be, it looked nothing like our current starcraft.

They have a designing team, they didnt view 40k and steal half the ideas and put it into there own, most they did is get a few ideas based off of a unit or a similar theme.


warhammer didnt start it all

also the reapers jumpsuits looked a lot like assault marines, there helmets and stuff looked like assault terminators.

Though it would be nice if there was a upgrade system. Like reaper can upgrade between (pistol is starting) Shotgun, rocket Launcher, flame thrower

Each with there obvious purposes
Shotgun:Killing single units fast
Flame thrower: Killing groups of units
rocket Launcher: killing vehicles and buildings

That would be perfect, not jumpers with pistols shooting at a thor lol

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Pistols are bad@$$

Just play Halo 1 and you'll find that out

 

[punwisp]

I've beaten halo 1 and 2, and almost 3. I know they are bad ass... but not for this kind of unit lol. Its good for a kind of assassin or something but not a jumper... Besides Flamer fits the Reaper theme

 

[Grade A Kill]

i say fire bat, thing is the reaper is a jet pack unit with duel pistols? why pistols? nothing stronger? fire bat was cool because they set people on fire, they could make firebats alot cooler than reapers. and the jet packs are a copy from the dawn of war games, just like the mother ship is the copy of the Czar from supreme commander, is blizzard running out of ideas or what?

 

[punwisp]

They didnt steal ideas, infact maybe they never got any ideas from them, its not like supreme commander came up with the original concept of the unit, they could have gotten the mothership idea from independence day, its like the same. The reaper however does seem pretty similar to dawn of war and I do agree, why pistols? How about a jumper with a freaking flamer?

 

[Tyranid]

Going mighty offtopic here but people NEED to stop saying that bla bla bla was copied from DAWN OF WAR! First of all, IT'S WARHAMMER 40,000! Dawn of War is just a BRANCH of the franchise! Warhammer is a Table top miniature game created in 1980s ('85 or '89 I think) while Dawn of War is a RTS game based in the Warhammer 40,000 universe created in 2004. Dawn of War brought nothing so new that it's worth of mention to Warhammer 40,000 universe so the things are copied from Warhammer 40,000, NOT Dawn of War.

Also these whole Blizzard copying Warhammer arguements mostly come from a thing that Warcraft was first supposed to be a Warhammer game but the deal was cut but Blizzard made it anyway. However I haven't found proof of this, and it may be just a rumour based on the fact how similar Warcraft I lore was with Warhammer lore of that time.

Also the main arguements of Starcraft rip off are these:
-SC Marines resembling Space Marines. However the concept of Power Armoured soldiers was made in the novel Starship Troopers, written by Robert A. Heinlein in 1959.

-Zergs being similar to Tyranids. Now this is one where in my opinnion you can clearly see Blizzard taking inspiration from Tyranids. While the idea of single minded aliens serving a leader (Queen or something like that) was made in the Starship Troopers novel and Alien movies, the whole assimilation thing was made in Star Trek (Borgs). I could be mistaken but from what I know Tyranids were one of the first to combine these 2 elements into a alien race which completely relies on biotechnology.

-The Protoss resembling the Eldar and the Tau. This is mostly based on the idea that the Protoss are an ancient race with great technology and superior bodies compared to humans. The Eldar are also an ancient race with great technology and superior bodies compared to humans (or atleast they are faster and more agile and have better senses). The Tau and Protoss arguement is mostly just based upon the similarity of their designs.

-The Xel'naga and the Old Ones. Both were really really really really ancient races moving around space creating races.

Now in my opinnion it's idiotic to argue over these things since is will just turn into a fanboy flamewar.

But anyway Blizzard have themselves stated that they find the Warhammer universe really interesting and that it's also a great source of inspiration.

 

[punwisp]

lso these whole Blizzard copying Warhammer arguements mostly come from a thing that Warcraft was first supposed to be a Warhammer game but the deal was cut but Blizzard made it anyway. However I haven't found proof of this, and it may be just a rumour based on the fact how similar Warcraft I lore was with Warhammer lore of that time.

Your basing this off of rumors you heard? Umm both lores are completely different, there instincts and everything else is completely different, they are similar in looks and name, thats about all I see.

 

[Tyranid]

Your basing this off of rumors you heard? Umm both lores are completely different, there instincts and everything else is completely different, they are similar in looks and name, thats about all I see.

I'm sorry but did you even READ my post? I wasn't accusing Blizzard of stealing ANYTHING! I was just pointing out where these accusations COME FROM!

 

[punwisp]

I never said you were accusing, never implied it. I should have rephrased my first sentence better, sorry. Also I know what you were saying, but I was just comparing orks and orcs, and that I dont think they have a similar lore, more of the design

 

[Massive_attack]

The warhammer vs sc universe argument is both dumb and pathetic. You might as well say that Star Trek stole from NASA or that the jedi ripped off <insert religion (lol islam ?) here> oh and, just to clear something up: SC did not steal from the tau as the orig SC was long around before GW pulled the tau out of they're ass.

Note: that wasnt directed at any forum member specificaly, just a general statement

 

[punwisp]

If you look at the alpha and beta versions which look VERY different from our current,they looked very different, until they re-designed some of it.

Jesus I hear people say this stole from this, because they saw one of the other first.. Thats what a lot of the arguments start out with some people. And they accuse the game creators for ripping or basing things off of things that were made before the game came out

 

[Teh_Ephy]

lol, Firebats were for crowd control. Well, SCII is going to be based on massive crowds. I'm sure you've all seen the gameplay demos. They get a massive jump in usefulness, and then they get the axe. Harsh.

 

[Massive_attack]

They looked really bad-ass this time around. Walking in massive versions of theyre old suits. I for one, really just wanted to have both reapers and firebats.

 

[punwisp]

They might add them in. Reapers for raiding, firebats for crowd control. Nothing wrong with not keeping both of them

 

[Arvedui]

And I quote:

Reaper really isn't replacing Firebat, Marauder is.

Either way, I like Reaper more, since they're much more dynamic, and of course original.

This discussion is useless.

 

[Tyranid]

They might add them in. Reapers for raiding, firebats for crowd control. Nothing wrong with not keeping both of them

There was already a build of Starcraft II which had the Firebat. It was axed like a week later thought and instead Blizzard introduced the Marauder which at that point had the Firebat model skinned black. Now the Marauder has it's own model which still resembles the old one.