"Protect" maps in 1.31.1?

[lolreported]

Previously I've used W3x2Lni v2.4.6 in order to "protect" my maps, but the tool no longer works with maps saved with patch 1.31.1.

I tried to use Default Wc3mapoptimizer 5.0, but I'm not sure if the result is correct. I get the following after loading a protected map, no crash or error message as I'd like to see:

I've tried multiple combinations of settings and the result is the same, most recently:

I use the War3x.mpq from the 1.29.2 game files. I'm aware bugs and issues might get introduced when protecting a map with software intended for older patches, but I don't know of any other solution at the moment.

How do you protect your maps? Suggestions are welcome, thanks.

 

[Chaosy]

I don't, it's a doucebag move that prevents learning.

 

[lolreported]

I don't, it's a doucebag move that prevents learning.

My entire map is built around a competetive highscore players challenge eachother for; having players easily modify the map will ruin this entire experience.

Thank you for your opinion, but it's off-topic and not helpful in this thread at all.

 

[Kazeon]

Your map is most likely safe, "remove editor-only files" removes trigger data at very least.

 

[deepstrasz]

Patch 1.31 announced
@Nudl9

 

[Nudl9]

I don't, it's a doucebag move that prevents learning.

Oh hell no dude.
Map encryption is the one thing that has saved custom games.
To this day people still play an edited version of my map Prisonbreak that take all the credit for my work.
Theres no absolutely no reason to make high quality maps if we don't have a map encryption tool.
The whole gaming industry would look different if we didn't have map encryption in WC3, thats how big it is.
DOTA, LOL, all these games wouldn't even be a thing.

Previously I've used W3x2Lni v2.4.6 in order to "protect" my maps, but the tool no longer works with maps saved with patch 1.31.1.

I use an old backup of the 1.30 editor.
To protect maps i use Vexorian Optimizer with an MPQ from 1.29.
I enable all checkmarks except everything under "Script Optimization" and "Clean SLK".
Then i account for 1.31 changes when the map is adapted to Bnet such as Necromancer rework.
I copypaste those abilities as they still show as 1.30 in the editor, then i give the Necromancer those new abilities.
If you have any triggers that affect Attack Index Modifiers you have to turn those into jass or custom scripts from 1 to 0, since they changed that recently.

This whole process is so fucking dumb really, but it's the shit you have to deal with because of Blizzards incompetence..

 

[lolreported]

Your map is most likely safe, "remove editor-only files" removes trigger data at very least.

Yeah, I'd asume so as well and I doubt anyone would sit and wait for billions of regions to load anyway.

Oh hell no dude.
Map encryption is the one thing that has saved custom games.
To this day people still play an edited version of my map Prisonbreak that take all the credit for my work.
Theres no absolutely no reason to make high quality maps if we don't have a map encryption tool.
The whole gaming industry would look different if we didn't have map encryption in WC3, thats how big it is.
DOTA, LOL, all these games wouldn't even be a thing.


I use an old backup of the 1.30 editor.
To protect maps i use Vexorian Optimizer with an MPQ from 1.29.
I enable all checkmarks except everything under "Script Optimization" and "Clean SLK".
Then i account for 1.31 changes when the map is adapted to Bnet such as Necromancer rework.
I copypaste those abilities as they still show as 1.30 in the editor, then i give the Necromancer those new abilities.
If you have any triggers that affect Attack Index Modifiers you have to turn those into jass or custom scripts from 1 to 0, since they changed that recently.

This whole process is so fucking dumb really, but it's the shit you have to deal with because of Blizzards incompetence..

Thanks! I'll have another look at it tomorrow following these steps and one could only hope Blizzard add a way to protect the maps sooner or later.

 

[Chaosy]

Oh hell no dude.
Map encryption is the one thing that has saved custom games.
To this day people still play an edited version of my map Prisonbreak that take all the credit for my work.
Theres no absolutely no reason to make high quality maps if we don't have a map encryption tool.
The whole gaming industry would look different if we didn't have map encryption in WC3, thats how big it is.
DOTA, LOL, all these games wouldn't even be a thing.

So? you think protecting a map will change anything?
That's like expecting a bulletproof vest to protect you against nukes.

If I want to access your map, I'll do so and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You can make it more annoying for me, yes.
But as long as the game can read the files, so can I.

So ultimately you just fuck people who want to learn, I have learned a lot from looking at existing maps and I would never support those that do the opposite because god knows the modding community would be far worse if everything was protected. Also, it seems that a lot of people who protect maps have ego problems, thinking a map is sooooo special that they desperately want to keep its contents exclusive. Unless you're the maker of DotA I do not approve.

Not that anyone cares that I approve, but still.

 

[DracoL1ch]

You may take your time to deploy your systems online if you want people to learn. They as well can ask for it themselves. 99.999% of cases of map deprotection is about inserting cheat packs. Stop fooling yourself.
And for new maps which has no site page (as a trusted source) protection is SOMEHOW the only viable option until it's get bigger. IF it get bigger.

 

[AbsolutePsycho]

You can make it more annoying for me, yes.

It's all about statistics. The percentage of people who will go through that, is smaller and smaller, depending on how sophisticated protection is.

Unless you're the maker of DotA I do not approve.

So it's okay if it's DotA? Exception?

 

[Nudl9]

Well he's never made released a map so i doubt he understands the consequences of leaving a map unprotected.

So ultimately you just fuck people who want to learn, I have learned a lot from looking at existing maps and I would never support those that do the opposite because god knows the modding community would be far worse if everything was protected.

The learning argument is just dumb, theres plenty of templates to learn from, blizzard scenarios, tutorials and the likes.
It goes back to the lovely proverb "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

My maps are special and i have a big ego, so i don't want anyone to learn.

99.999% of cases of map deprotection is about inserting cheat packs.

This shit goes way deeper.
Wc3edit.net is a whole community site dedicated to deprotecting maps and inserting cheat codes.
I'm pretty sure i've played hacked versions of Parasite 2 back in the day.

If I want to access your map, I'll do so and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You can make it more annoying for me, yes.
But as long as the game can read the files, so can I.

Not really no.
If you protect a map and deprotect it, all the data is scrambled and reassembling it takes a lot more work than anyone is willing to put up with.
I've tried.

 

[Jaccouille]

You can still inject cheatpack in protected map, can't you? I've seen tons of different cheatpack injected into Footmen vs Grunts maps, most of them come from korean website.

 

[Nudl9]

Yeah it's easy to deprotect a map and insert cheat codes, what's difficult is adding original content.

 

[Chaosy]

The learning argument is just dumb, theres plenty of templates to learn from, blizzard scenarios, tutorials and the likes.
It goes back to the lovely proverb "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

My maps are special and i have a big ego, so i don't want anyone to learn.

Not really no.
If you protect a map and deprotect it, all the data is scrambled and reassembling it takes a lot more work than anyone is willing to put up with.
I've tried.

Err, no?

Let's say I spot a talent system. Not only are there multiple different ways to achieve it, it can also be done in different languages. So even if I can find a talent system guide, for learning purposes I want to see multiple ones to weigh pros and cons before I make my own.

Specifically, Svenskerman made a map a few years back called Satyr vs Draenei. It had an effect between talent icons, and I was curious if he had made a system for it or hardcoded it. So it was not even about the system itself, but rather about a specific detail about the system so an average guide would not help me.

So your "learn it somewhere else" argument is not perfect, it does not work all the time. Far from it actually. Especially if everyone is super secret about everything and doesn't share knowledge.

____________________________________________________________________

And even if you scramble your data, it does not really help. Because I just need to add cheats on top of what exists. Most of the time I do not need to use existing stuff, and even if I do, as long as I know JASS I can do it anyway, it is just a matter of convenience. Once again you are only fucking other people over.

 

[Wrda]

The worst part is the protection is used against yourself, you do a map, protect it and then host it. Imagine a month later you want to fix something in the map and then, you see by yourself, that you were not smart enough to keep the unprotected version so you could edit it. So basically here you're fucked.
Or...
You leave wc3 for good and leave your maps protected and in need to fix bugs, you were dumb enough to leave them protected and no one else could fix the bug since they were not exactly that knowledgeable about the editor. And then they have to suffer for the eternity, just because of you and your "special maps" mentality.
No one's map is special, get over it.

 

[deepstrasz]

You leave wc3 for good and leave your maps protected and in need to fix bugs, you were dumb enough to leave them protected and no one else could fix the bug since they were not exactly that knowledgeable about the editor. And then they have to suffer for the eternity, just because of you and your "special maps" mentality.
No one's map is special, get over it.

Contradict yourself much?
If no map is special, who cares if it's "lost". Most maps are just copies of others anyway.

I wish the deprotectors the best of luck so they can fuck you over just like you fuck the modding community.

I don't wish any of your stuff be abused all over the internet with your knowledge not being able to do anything about it.

 

[Rui]

I don't, it's a doucebag move that prevents learning.

One made to prevent other douche-bag moves such as stealing or adding cheats to your maps. I agree it's a shame, but I can hardly pin the blame on those who protect maps.

Out of curiosity, is @Vexorian planning to update his tool?

 

[Wrda]

Contradict yourself much?
If no map is special, who cares if it's "lost". Most maps are just copies of others anyway.

A map might not be special in terms of uniqueness and people care about them, because they're fun. No map has a higher value than another one (it obviously will if it is more well-made), thus not special. Some maps are rip-offs, yes, but there might be 10 maps with the same idea and either heavily inspired on the same one and all of them have different approaches and different features. That doesn't mean all those maps are copies. Most important aspect is if they are fun to play or not, no cares if they're copies.

 

[Nudl9]

You say map deprotection is easy, but you can't make use of systems from protected maps?
In that case whats the problem with mapmakers protecting their maps?
I don't understand where your entitlement comes from.

By this logic game developers shouldn't add anti-theft measures against pirates.
God forbid if somebody wants to protect their intellectual property.

Far from it actually. Especially if everyone is super secret about everything and doesn't share knowledge.

Is this some super secret site to you? You can ask anyone here and most would be willing to share their information.

The worst part is the protection is used against yourself, you do a map, protect it and then host it. Imagine a month later you want to fix something in the map and then, you see by yourself, that you were not smart enough to keep the unprotected version so you could edit it. So basically here you're fucked.

... just keep a backup lol.

Out of curiosity, is @Vexorian planning to update his tool?

Vexorian was last seen: Mar 6, 2012
It's best if we just press Blizzard for a way to encrypt maps in Reforged.
If they don't i don't see how Reforged's mapmaking community will last long term.

 

[deepstrasz]

It's best if we just press Blizzard for a way to encrypt maps in Reforged.
If they don't i don't see how Reforged's mapmaking community will last long term.

Scrap Reforged, what about classic Warcraft III (I don't mean just RoC)?

 

[Nudl9]

Well seeing how Warcraft III classic is getting downgraded whats the point.
It's obvious that they're downgrading the original game to force the "remaster" on us.
Theres no incentive to add new features to the original game from Blizzard's perspective.
Classic Warcraft III will be dead as soon as Reforged is launched, i think we all know that.
I just hope Reforged will be good, but i have my doubts.

 

[deepstrasz]

Classic Warcraft III will be dead as soon as Reforged is launched, i think we all know that.

If that happens. I'll still have my 1.27b and 1.29.2 if they don't break compatibility and force us to save maps on newer patch versions.
But, let's not cloud mapping with conspiracy theories.

 

[Nudl9]

It's not really a conspiracy when you know most people will buy and stick to Reforged after launch.
The few people who stick around for classic won't have anyone to play with.

 

[Wrda]

It's not really a conspiracy when you know most people will buy and stick to Reforged after launch.
The few people who stick around for classic won't have anyone to play with.

What part of "Reforged is bounded to Classic" you didn't understand? They literally said it's the same engine, the same game, and it's meant to co-exist with Classic, they can even choose between Reforged and Classic graphics. This has been said quite a long time.
So no, Classic won't obviously die
I'm not going to waste 30 euro for the same game with same stuff, just upgraded graphics. That's not worth for me, unless I was insane.

 

[deepstrasz]

I'm not going to waste 30 euro for the same game with same stuff, just upgraded graphics. That's not worth for me, unless I was insane.

They'll surely add more natives and mapping/modding related material there as well as graphics enhancements like shadows and whatnot. So, it's not about insanity, it's about business.

 

[Rui]

Vexorian was last seen: Mar 6, 2012

I was aware he hadn't logged since 2012, but @Vexorian never liked the Hive much as far as I know.

They'll surely add more natives and mapping/modding related material there as well as graphics enhancements like shadows and whatnot. So, it's not about insanity, it's about business.

But they've got to add the same functionality to classic as well, otherwise compatibility is lost.

 

[Nudl9]

What part of "Reforged is bounded to Classic" you didn't understand? They literally said it's the same engine, the same game, and it's meant to co-exist with Classic, they can even choose between Reforged and Classic graphics. This has been said quite a long time.

Ah if thats the case then maybe i'm wrong.
Wouldn't surprise me if the two versions turn incompatible though.
Remastered games have always been a technical endeavour as far as i understand.

If you want to get in contact with Vexorian then email is probably the best, he seems pretty dead on wc3c.net too (last active 2016).
I think i understand why he doesn't like Hive though, WC3C have always been the more mature and site for high quality mods, while Hive is more of a mainstream modding site for all ages and skill level.

 

[AbsolutePsycho]

The worst part is the protection is used against yourself, you do a map, protect it and then host it. Imagine a month later you want to fix something in the map and then, you see by yourself, that you were not smart enough to keep the unprotected version so you could edit it. So basically here you're fucked.

That happened to me in 2013, when my HDD suddenly died (with all source material being on it).
I was careless and almost didn't bother with precautions for such thing (I kinda had some backups, but they were old, and not everything was there).
It was a good lesson to me, so to this day I regularly backup all important stuff to 2 different pieces of hardware.

At the same time I saw what happens when unprotected maps get any close to being popular and frequently played. Almost immediately it spawns a tree of branching versions, some of them having ridiculous changes, balance breaking changes, retarded out-of-place humor additions, unnecessary 9999 Mb of import shit, etc. And on top of that, it becomes extremely confusing for the players, like you need to do a fucking research before you choose the version you want... By the way, in the end, the most successful of these branches (usually where time investment is big enough) end up becoming protected.

P.S.: Recently I managed to restore all of my lost data from that HDD, when I got the time and determination.

 

[Ricola3D]

I also am used to Widgetizer + Vexorian Optimizer.
However Widgetizer doesn't work anymore with 1.31 either. Can just prey for Vexorian Optimizer not to bug things...

 

[Tal'Rarity]

It's nice turning 1 minute into 1 hour for cheaters, its like another level of game play so yes it is worth while corrupting maps and discouraging new players from easily cheating your map is a great help to getting more people to play together. If people don't want to share then that should be their choice though the maps worth cheating often have mapmakers who are decent enough to answer your questions.

 

[jiafish]

This seems to have branched into a discussion about should maps be protected, ill put in my 2 cents

The purpose of protecting a map is more to ensure that you are the only one who can develop it and stop it from branching off into various different versions.

Let's say I made a pretty complex map and protected it. This doesn't stop someone from deprotecting it and inserting cheats, or change the author name to their own and releasing it.
What it does stop is someone deciding to add new spells or units or systems to the map, trying to make it their own.

If I did not protect the map, someone could add their own spin onto it, making the map better or worse, all without the original author's approval. Now you have two different version of the map and dividing the player base. As an author, this is definitely something you do NOT want.

 

[Cespie]

I'm not going to waste 30 euro for the same game with same stuff, just upgraded graphics. That's not worth for me, unless I was insane.

The only reason that we are getting this many updates to the game currently, is that there is promise of future profit in this rework. Additionally, the improved graphics will draw in more people, which means that being in this community becomes a lot more meaningful in general.
Buying reforged supports the future development of the game, and lets Blizzard know that it's a sub-franchise worth keeping on their plate.

Also, I'd gladly pay 30 euro for a graphics update to a game that I have spent thousands of hours playing. 30 Euro isn't all that much to begin with.

 

[deepstrasz]

 

[Lord_Marrowgrath]

It was working. Now it's only dissappear triggers. Still map data openable.

 

[deepstrasz]

It was working. Now it's only dissappear triggers. Still map data openable.

@Retera
(see the two posts above)

 

[Ricola3D]

@Retera
(see the two posts above)

Do deplacing war3map.j in a "scripts" folder still work too ?
The main goal is not so much having your map data secret, but preventing cheaters to add cheats in the map no ?

 

[Wrda]

Do deplacing war3map.j in a "scripts" folder still work too ?
The main goal is not so much having your map data secret, but preventing cheaters to add cheats in the map no ?

It doesn't take much to realise that it will only stop amateur losers, there's still others who can bypass that easily specially those guys from wc3edit.net.
Not only that, but makes your map take a huge risk of desyncs with the optimizer.