Does map protection still benefit modders and the community?

[Helpful Pug]

Does it really help the community to be protecting maps these days? It's not like duplicate maps are going to be popping up here, and there are no other communities for a thief to be getting credit from. Protecting maps is more of an obstacle to people tweeking maps for LAN parties than it is a protection of someone's legacy. What are modders gaining from protecting maps that isn't provided by the size of the community? I can tell you what we're losing: some really great learning opportunities for the rare newblood that might be turned off by the uncooperative nature of oldschool map protection.

Back in the day it was kind of a big deal, since any map could be edited and shared at any number of places, but it kind of seems counter productive now that The Hive is basically THE modding site. If I'm missing something let me know, but I've always felt that most maps really didn't need protecting to begin with. For the vast majority of cases, the only thing map protection does is prevent someone from learning a neat trick or tweeking gameplay. Communities get bigger when people share the culture, not when we get in the way of it.

I only bring this up because I recently restarted modding, and have found that the only versions of my old maps I can find are all protected. It's pretty frustrating, and I realize how annoying it must be to anyone who wanted to update or tweek my maps for their own enjoyment. It's not like I'll be getting credit anyway, I changed my tag and have no intention of associating with or restarting my old accounts (If I could even remember my myriad, overly complex passwords). Further, it's not like anyone outside of the few hundred (or less) active modders out there even cares enough to know what I'm talking about, let alone take credit. Which they wouldn't be able to do, since my old maps are either well known enough that no one would fall for it, or have been uploaded for long enough that someone would catch it and remove the "new" version. I dunno, maybe I'm just feeling ranty, but map protection always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer cooperation.

My two cents is out, let me know how you feel. Maybe I'll come round, maybe I'm reading into things, maybe I'm on to something, maybe I'm missing something fundamental, let me know

 

[JaysProjex]

Does it really help the community to be protecting maps these days?

The simple & most obvious answer is no it doesn't, what's important is the use of the forums to ask for help

and have found that the only versions of my old maps I can find are all protected. It's pretty frustrating

Old maps with no names mentioned & new account? I find your post a bit skeptical. It's up to the author to upload the map if they're no longer working on it, it's not a requirement

I prefer cooperation

That can be found here at hiveworkshop, there are plenty of users here who are willing to cooperate & try to help you succeed, you can't change the fact that most map authors chose to protect their work.

 

[deepstrasz]

There are even some that want money in exchange for their triggers and systems in their protected maps. People do what they want as long as nobody gets hurt or whatever rules are not broken. Some map makers protect their work thoroughly so that it has little chance to be hacked. Humans are different: some are overprotective or paranoid, others are philanthropists or careless.

 

[Chaosy]

I hate people who protect their maps.
At least for a day.

It just means I have to break in with a MPQ editor which is frankly boring and a waste of time.

'Protection' only protects against newbies, anyone with half a brain will get what they want eventually.

 

[DracoL1ch]

it's barely requires something inhuman to edit map via slk/raw data instead of editor
in fact thats even faster and easier in many cases
u dont need to unprotect map at all
also protection (if we talking about any kind of staff which breaks editor compability) is made to speed up map

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Protection != Vexorians Map Optimizer.

People use Vex' Optimizer because it speeds up maps and compresses the filesize, not for the "protection" element. It's just a convenient extra feature that prevents noobs from cheating.


Besides, you have a pretty naive view of what map protection means for the maker. If you design a map that just so happens to get popular, you wouldn't believe the amounts of copies online you will find within only several weeks of release. Most of the time, people only modify small elements or just cheat some stuff in, but it's still annoying as fuck.

Ever wondered why there are thousands of different versions of Green TD or WinterMaul out there and nobody can really decide on which one is the newest? This is why.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Protection != Vexorians Map Optimizer.

People use Vex' Optimizer because it speeds up maps and compresses the filesize, not for the "protection" element. It's just a convenient extra feature that prevents noobs from cheating.


Besides, you have a pretty naive view of what map protection means for the maker. If you design a map that just so happens to get popular, you wouldn't believe the amounts of copies online you will find within only several weeks of release. Most of the time, people only modify small elements or just cheat some stuff in, but it's still annoying as fuck.

Ever wondered why there are thousands of different versions of Green TD or WinterMaul out there and nobody can really decide on which one is the newest? This is why.

vexorian effectively prevetns access through editor, I dont know any other kind of protection exising. any MPQ-fucker is avoided by MPQEditor by now, there's no un-openable maps at all. problem is people have no desire to actually visit official sites, but that's not mapmaker's fault. dota had like 1000 cheated maps, yet in 99% cases it's pure, 'cause players will notice 8 mb downloading process for sure.

 

[deepstrasz]

'Protection' only protects against newbies, anyone with half a brain will get what they want eventually.

Well, depends on the protection type. Some systems are really hard to break.

I hate people who protect their maps.
At least for a day.

I guess, ~4 hours until you won't hate me anymore

It just means I have to break in with a MPQ editor which is frankly boring and a waste of time.

Sweat a little, at least Imagine the time said person "wasted" trying to accomplish what you want from that map.

 

[Chaosy]

I mostly want models or textures. I don't need to look at code because I can achieve most things within reasonable levels.
This is usually very easy since they cannot be protected.
The only problem I have had is when the creator has named the files file251.mdx in which case I have no clue which file is which. So I have to open it in the editor or try every single model.

 

[deepstrasz]

I mostly want models or textures. I don't need to look at code because I can achieve most things within reasonable levels.
This is usually very easy since they cannot be protected.
The only problem I have had is when the creator has named the files file251.mdx in which case I have no clue which file is which. So I have to open it in the editor or try every single model.

Well, the little onion man has a strong point.
Few are the people who at least properly if actually credit someone for the borrowed/copied ideas, models, resources.

 

[Chaosy]

Guilty as charged.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I mostly want models or textures. I don't need to look at code because I can achieve most things within reasonable levels.
This is usually very easy since they cannot be protected.
The only problem I have had is when the creator has named the files file251.mdx in which case I have no clue which file is which. So I have to open it in the editor or try every single model.

How about asking the creators of said resources instead of ... well ... stealing them without permission?
I'm fine if people take resources from my map that I didn't create myself. But I also have lots of models and textures in my map that:
a) I created myself and
b) I actually paid an artist for

It sucks when cheap bastards just steal these resources without asking for permission. Especially the resources I paid cold hard cash for.

 

[deepstrasz]

It sucks when cheap bastards just steal these resources without asking for permission. Especially the resources I paid cold hard cash for.

That if the permission would be given by any means. Anyways, at least you don't have to worry about stuff like that making it to the Hive. Use Report.

 

[Chaosy]

Simple, I don't want to wait (the user might not even be active anymore). If I happen to have the creator on skype and he's online, I would ask instead. Because I would get a quick reply.

In my case, none of the projects where I have stolen stuff has actually gotten released so no harm done.
I can see it from your point of view, I would say the same if I was in your position.
On the other hand we take models from other games (aka rips) which is more or less accepted so this shouldn't really be any different.
The companies that originally made them payed money to the artists so that would be the same thing.

Maybe I am just rambling.

 

[DracoL1ch]

b) I actually paid an artist for

well thats harsh but again, there's no defence at all. no matter how you try, you should get over it - your job will always be stolen by anybody. harsh wc3 development. thing is, regardless thieves, your project is working as intended with proper texture/sound/w/e, so you really didn't loose anything. it's just psycho

 

[deepstrasz]

so you really didn't loose anything. it's just psycho

Well if this however happens:

Ever wondered why there are thousands of different versions of Green TD or WinterMaul out there and nobody can really decide on which one is the newest? This is why.

it wouldn't be nice at all.

 

[Rui]

@Helpful Pug In answer to the original post, I make these my words:

Most of the time, people only modify small elements or just cheat some stuff in, but it's still annoying as fuck.

Ever wondered why there are thousands of different versions of Green TD or WinterMaul out there and nobody can really decide on which one is the newest? This is why.

I've protected all non-melee maps I've made, and this is why. No map author that's taken a decent amount of time to produce it wants a thousand edits wandering about. Cheats are bad, but even worse is putting your name and redistributing the map. I lost count of how many times I saw that happen.

Then there's attrition to version adoption. Authors have their view of where a project is headed. They don't like their work being taken the wrong way, even if that way is preferred by the community. Protecting cuts off the bad weed before it spreads.

Spoiler

Of course it's a problem when the author is a bonehead; I lost track of how many times I saw this happen too. E.g., the 2005 version of BFME was golden until v2.5, then LegenD-Fire decided, for some reason, that the nazgûl should be hell broken loose. It made the game unplayable until someone finally reduced their movement speed. Then the balancing of the game was done based on giving units Critical Strikes and Evasions, which was a really bad practice later adopted by "Azeroth Wars: Legacy Reborn" as well.

@Chaosy
I only decided not to protect a map once, and I regretted it greatly. I'm well aware that it's not unbrekeable, but if it takes you half a brain to break into it, that's enough for me. At least I have the guarantee that if you have half a brain. Coincidentally, people who have half a brain tend not to just stamp their name into a map and republish it, so I'm fine with that.

EDIT: Back in my day there was no super MPQ editor (as mentioned by @DracoL1ch). It could happen that files were named ~unknown00004847, but even then you could guess what resource it was by file size.

 

[DracoL1ch]

I've protected all non-melee maps I've made, and this is why. No map author that's taken a decent amount of time to produce it wants a thousand edits wandering about. Cheats are bad, but even worse is putting your name and redistributing the map. I lost count of how many times I saw that happen.

that's why you come and get some kind of hosting for your project. c'man, it's really cheap novaday.

 

[Emm-A-]

Hey guys,

I would like to share some thoughts of mine about this, as this is something important to me:

protecting maps in game modding sounds stupid and destructive to me. It is not like we all took lots of that stuff by others at some point and make/made a new game out of it, so basicly every map maker itself "stole" something somewhere.

I dont think, the term "stealing" makes much sense anyway.

I understand, that you do not want cheap copies of your beloved baby floating around, and this is actually a very good reason for protecting your own stuff in my eyes. On top, it makes sense to me, that if your intention might be to protect stuff, that you took and credited from others, to be distributed without original permission.
However, if it is only for protective reasons, I think this is pretty egoistic.

It is not like you earn any money with those things you created.

Modding should be about the art and improving ones capabilities, if you ask me. Any capitalistic thoughts like "protecting property (that is not really truly your own property as I stated before)" are rather destructive than helpful to the art in my opinion.

Without sharing, modding would not be able to exist.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Modding should be about the art and improving ones capabilities, if you ask me. Any capitalistic thoughts like "protecting property (that is not really truly your own property as I stated before)" are rather destructive than helpful to the art in my opinion.

If I create some code, name it "wonderful powerful code" and would sell it for $5 per view, it would be viable business. Guess why? Although $5 isn't big deal for most people, yet they won't share it, because they are paid for that. That's odd humanity's feature, keeping things which can be shared w/o any backstabs. So it goes here.
Creator paid for resource and therefore doesn't want anyone to take it anymore. bad thing is, we have no wc3 policy. I'd say "its just a videogame", but that isnt a reason anyway

 

[deepstrasz]

It is not like we all took lots of that stuff by others at some point and make/made a new game out of it, so basicly every map maker itself "stole" something somewhere.

That's not true for everybody. Decent people at least properly credit the stuff they've taken if they can't just use the stuff others upload for free to the Hive.

I understand, that you do not want cheap copies of your beloved baby floating around, and this is actually a very good reason for protecting your own stuff in my eyes.

Not at all if said person would share the ideas and resources upon being asked about it. Plus, you know most people are either stupid, instinct or sin based (envy and other stuff like that). I for instance, wouldn't want somebody to take one of my maps and change things in it and release it on the net for the LoLs or just to create confusion or for some other destructive reason.
As you've written, protection is useful to reduce the chances your map might get traumatized.

It is not like you earn any money with those things you created.

This is a really bad way to look at it. As if, something that isn't supposed to earn somebody money has less value. Also, people have the right to do what they want with their stuff as long as it's theirs.

Modding should be about the art and improving ones capabilities, if you ask me. Any capitalistic thoughts like "protecting property (that is not really truly your own property as I stated before)" are rather destructive than helpful to the art in my opinion.

Again, protection is useful against people who might use your stuff without proper crediting (basically steal your work and call it their own) and who then might call in for donations and or money exchange for "their" ideas & resources.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Again, protection is useful against people who might use your stuff without proper crediting (basically steal your work and call it their own) and who the might call in for donations and or money exchange for "their" ideas & resources.

lol its hard to get financies even as official author, how hard is it for those poor things? D:

 

[deepstrasz]

lol its hard to get financies even as official author, how hard is it for those poor things? D:

A somewhat exaggerated comment, I know but it is a low chance possibility nonetheless

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Just to clarify my point here, as I feel like people misunderstood my initial post on that subject:

I am not against "reverse engineering" at all. If people want to open a map, study it and learn from it, that's awesome!
Also, I don't mind derivative works either. For example, back when I shared an earlier version of Gaias as a template for the public (when SC2 was new and everyone was hyped about it), it spawned a number of derivates using some existing systems, resources and code from the original version to create new maps. I'm totally cool with that, as there is a creative vision and actual hard work behind that. Only a few of these projects survived until today; I guess the only one still known is Gems of Unification.

Again, this is not the problem. I'd feel honored to have someone take the map and make it his own, creating something completely new with that.

What I hate, however, are cheap "fixes" or edits of a map made by a user who simply felt like a specific element of the map was annoying or imbalanced or whatever. This is real cancer, as it shows a complete and utter disregard and a lack of respect for the original vision of the map author. Also, most people doing only small adjustments and "fixes" tend to have no clue of what they are doing, introducing not only new bugs, but also new imbalances.

Do you know these guys that tell you "I think x should do y!" and you - being the author of the map - simply know better and would never implement this suggestion because you feel its stupid and/or breaks the game? I think every mapper knows at least one of them. Those are the "idea guys" that nobody asked for.
Now imagine if these people had the power to actually do what they suggested without your permission...
This is what protection is for. Preventing people from DIY-stupidity.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yeah I hate it when someone has different opinion!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yeah I hate it when someone has different opinion!

Having an opinion about the work of someone else is fine. Taking the freedom to take that someone's work and changing it without permission is not.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yeah I don't grant permission bcs ppl edit my stuff without my permission either!

 

[Helpful Pug]

Wow! This topic blew right up! Thanks for all of your thoughts and replies. After reading this thread, I am definitely on the side of "don't bother protecting," and I'll explain why in a few simple points that I hope everyone can understand:

1) You may not always be active, and may give up Warcraft III modding entirely. If and when this happens, it can be frustrating to other modders who are interested in your work.
2) The modding community is small enough that if you upload your map anywhere, enough people will know of it (or be able to check when accusations of theft do happen). No one is going to bother trying to steal your map in the first place. You don't get credit for something if everyone knows you stole it, which is the best "map protection" there is.
3) The more access other modders (who are likely to be the only people to be playing your maps) have for tweaking, the more fun they and their friends have, and the higher quality EVERYBODY's work becomes. We're all here because we enjoy it, right?
4) This is not a career. We do this because we enjoy it. We are a small group of hobbyists. We lose absolutely NOTHING by sharing our work. There is no fame to be had here, no money, and nothing valuable outside of our enjoyment of this hobby of ours. We can have more fun, or less, and taking the time to put more obstacles in people's way isn't going to help us have MORE fun.

*An important note: if, for whatever reason, Warcraft III modding were to suddenly explode in popularity, and several modding sites and multiplayer platforms popped up, and the stakes of having work stolen were to be a little higher, I would definitely be more ok with map protection

Not to mention the number of times I have seen a map actually stolen, even in the glory days, was pretty rare, and every time, it was a map that had been protected anyway.

However, it's not like someone who has made up their mind is going to change it based on this thread, and there are plenty of people who feel that not protecting their maps doesn't sit well with them (whether it be paranoia, legitimate concern or even just old habits), so do whatever you feel comfortable with, I won't judge

Old maps with no names mentioned & new account? I find your post a bit skeptical. It's up to the author to upload the map if they're no longer working on it, it's not a requirement

Warcraft III modding has been around for a really long time. There was golden age a loooong time ago when several sites like The Hive were all very active and full of modders. So much so, in fact, that we even had time and people enough to have rivalries. Oh yes, we certainly did waste our time complaining about each other all those years ago. It's partly THAT attitude that leads me down the "don't protect your maps" path, since bitterness and pettiness definitely held the community back. Anyway, I am not a Hive alumni, but this is basically the only place left active

 

[deepstrasz]

2) The modding community is small enough that if you upload your map anywhere, enough people will know of it (or be able to check when accusations of theft do happen) that no one is going to bother trying to steal your map in the first place. You don't get credit for something if everyone knows you stole it, which is the best "map protection" there is.

This, assuming we lived in a decent world. People don't care that much.

3) The more access other modders (who are likely to be the only people to be playing your maps) have for tweaking, the more fun they and their friends have, and the higher quality EVERYBODY's work becomes. We're all here because we enjoy it, right?

If we are to put advantages and disadvantages into balance considering the whole world, then yes, protecting maps is not a good way to have a community evolve fast. As long as said person that protects, lives, that person will keep the stuff protected. Call it selfishness or what you will.

I'd still protect my work. If anyone wants something to know of my lame "modding", I could just answer, that if they'd ask. If I suddenly disappear, well... horse-sheep. I doubt there aren't people capable of properly hacking even sophisticated Warcraft III maps.

 

[DracoL1ch]

1) You may not always be active, and may give up Warcraft III modding entirely. If and when this happens, it can be frustrating to other modders who are interested in your work.

good if you can actually say that. none of people I know went away like that, it was some kind of AFK and abandon later. you never say goodbye to modding, you just got drown in routine life eventually. and there's where you can just upload your code then.

2) The modding community is small enough that if you upload your map anywhere, enough people will know of it (or be able to check when accusations of theft do happen). No one is going to bother trying to steal your map in the first place. You don't get credit for something if everyone knows you stole it, which is the best "map protection" there is.

wrong. people plays maps widely across internet, it's really easy to use any cheatpacks around. any hacked map will decrese your map popularity. some will call its imbalanced , others will find out it's cheated and forget as well. you just can't ignore it unless your map is ALREADY famous. which actually doubles amount of cheat-modified maps around.

3) The more access other modders (who are likely to be the only people to be playing your maps) have for tweaking, the more fun they and their friends have, and the higher quality EVERYBODY's work becomes. We're all here because we enjoy it, right?

nope. as you said there's barely few modders around who take care about map properly. you better drop sources somewhere at hive rather than keep it open

4) This is not a career. We do this because we enjoy it. We are a small group of hobbyists. We lose absolutely NOTHING by sharing our work. There is no fame to be had here, no money, and nothing valuable outside of our enjoyment of this hobby of ours. We can have more fun, or less, and taking the time to put more obstacles in people's way isn't going to help us have MORE fun.

im here not to help but to create something. to overpass wc3 limits and go higher than sun. I dont care about helping anybody, unless im tired/lurking around. you won't find mapmakers just casually walking around asnwering stupid posts over and over again. we all have our hobbies as maps and we do our best to make our child live long enough to keep us entertained. mentioned reasons is why protection is vital for new, stable and popular maps.

no matter how you try, any def can be easily (now) overcome. it's just a matter of removing most of dummies, as been said.

 

[Helpful Pug]

This, assuming we lived in a decent world. People don't care that much.

Well that's assuming The Hive moderators allow ripped off maps to be uploaded here, which I dont think they do. That's all I'm saying: the fewer opportunities for theft, the less theft

If we are to put advantages and disadvantages into balance considering the whole world, then yes, protecting maps is not a good way to have a community evolve fast. As long as said person that protects lives, that person will keep the stuff protected. Call it selfish or what you will.

I'd still protect my work. If anyone wants something to know of my lame "modding", I could just answer, that if they'd ask. If I suddenly disappear, well... horse-sheep. I doubt there aren't people capable of properly hacking even sophisticated Warcraft III maps.

As for "just ask," that's fair enough in my book. If you want to protect your work, I by no means have anything "bad" to say about you: you do the work, you have the say. This is more of a discussion about how people feel than it is some kind of philosophical debate about the morals of map protection

 

[deepstrasz]

Well that's assuming The Hive moderators allow ripped off maps to be uploaded here, which I dont think they do. That's all I'm saying: the fewer opportunities for theft, the less theft

Well, I thought you were referring to the generality of Warcraft III modding. There are still sites that host maps, models and who knows what else related to this game. What I'm writing is that no matter where you upload your work (that includes the Hiveworkshop which is a community based on quality control), it's prone to be defiled if it gets famous. The only thing that the Hive can do, is limit the uploading of proven stolen resources and that sometimes is hard especially when said resource is new or comes from who the heck knows what site deep in the internet.

Now for instance, @Zwiebelchen left most of his coding out in the open and as a result Gems of Unification v13.02.26 became a reality.

 

[Helpful Pug]

is limit the uploading of proven stolen resources and that sometimes is hard especially when said resource is new or comes from who the heck knows what site deep in the internet.

I guess the difference in opinion here is probably based on my belief that there really aren't anymore active Wc3 modding sites out there. Even wc3 campaigns (where I used to roam) is basically dead If there are more, I can understand why you might want to protect your work

no matter how you try, any def can be easily (now) overcome. it's just a matter of removing most of dummies, as been said.

So why bother? Either protecting does something, in which case it seems like you are confusing "getting credit" with "preventing anyone from tampering with your work in anyway," or it doesn't, in which case, it's just a hassle and waste of time and no one gains anything, not even the map maker.

 

[DracoL1ch]

So why bother? Either protecting does something, in which case it seems like you are confusing "getting credit" with "preventing anyone from tampering with your work in anyway," or it doesn't, in which case, it's just a hassle and waste of time and no one gains anything, not even the map maker.

dunno my tool does it in 30 seconds, im loosing nothing doing that

 

[deepstrasz]

So why bother?

Because not everybody can do it and most of those who can are not nutcase idiots.

 

[JaysProjex]

~~~Heated Discussion Incoming~~~

Your topic is subjective & also one sided, a moderator should close it

I am definitely on the side of "don't bother protecting,"

Nobody is expecting you to change your mind either

1) Ask the author, if they refuse or went inactive then make your own project
2) If the community is so small like you suggest, I wouldn't be surprised of how many (a equivalent to none) would even know about it, which makes your statement a illogical one.
3) Unless you're talking about poor quality maps, you could easily learn how to make your own to achieve (higher quality)
3 1/2) Most lesser quality maps are not protected so this shouldn't be a problem for you, high quality maps are usually protected & alot of work put into them (apparently this is a problem for you) nobody will just hand that over to anyone
4) To some of us it could become a career, even if we still enjoy it as a hobby. I see absolutely nothing wrong with map protection, it's a small community like you suggest, no fame, no money, & it couldn't possibly be valuable enough to have a look see on what's inside of a protected map right?

An important note: if, for whatever reason, Warcraft III modding were to suddenly explode in popularity, and several modding sites and multiplayer platforms popped up, and the stakes of having work stolen were to be a little higher, I would definitely be more ok with map protection

So everyone should just open their maps for "x" amount of time then once you've received the (unprotected version) you're ok with it, then it's ok to lock them back up.... you're blinded by your own discussion.

I support map protection, you don't, sounds like you have a personal problem with it

 

[deepstrasz]

Your topic is subjective & also one sided, a moderator should close it

It is subjective and a moderator shouldn't close it (just because you don't agree with his opinion).

 

[JaysProjex]

(just because you don't agree with his opinion)

That is also your opinion (did you see what I did there?)

The tool is available at hive & other wc3 modding sites, just because "you don't agree with it" doesn't mean you have to create a topic about it because several map authors choose to use it.

You're also making a false assumption, I said I support map protection, sure there are times I wish I could improve maps that the author went inactive but I'm not going to cry about it because they chose to protect their work. There is even users here who hate map protection but also use it on their own maps which I find to be hypocritical.

 

[Emm-A-]

sry if this is going too much off topic, but

This thread is opinion versus opinion to no end

Isnt this the case in any/most discussion? And why is that a problem? If there was only topics allowed to be discussed, that will find a definite consensus, there would be no discussions anymore. I think, it is good to see all these different opinions.

"you don't agree with it" doesn't mean you have to create a topic about it.

This makes no sense to me. I think, to create a topic about it, that is exactly the sense of creating topics at all in that case?

 

[deepstrasz]

This thread is opinion versus opinion to no end that is why it should be closed.

That's just stupid. If consensus was frequent in everything, then imagine how slow evolution would be (=no challenge, nothing to prove to anybody). Things would just randomly occur based on experimentation and accidents.

You're also making a false assumption

What assumption was that again? All I wrote was:

It is subjective and a moderator shouldn't close it (just because you don't agree with his opinion).

Is the assumption supposed to be that you didn't agree with his opinion? Well, do you agree? I don't think so:

I said I support map protection

Yeah me too but not @Helpful Pug. He is more inclined for maps not being protected so that people can learn from them...

That is also your opinion (did you see what I did there?)

All I see is you trying to make yourself look smart.

 

[JaysProjex]

I think, it is good to see all these different opinions.

This isn't the first topic about this discussion, it's just a endless spam grind to me.

The simple fact is if the author chooses to protect his/her work that's their choice even if you disagree (Case closed)

for maps not being protected so that people can learn from them...

If you want a unprotected copy of a specific map then ask the author, if the author declines then simply move on, no thread required.

IMO if you're a inexperienced map maker (not saying you're) learning other maps will not help you one example being, you could be looking at bad code which leads to poor optimization then you have a map later updated by you full of bugs & then have no idea how to fix them because it wasn't your source to begin with & then ends in with alot of confusion when you bring it to the forums asking for further help. It's better to start from scratch & ask for help when needed or read guides from hiveworkshop in which I already closely suggested.

All I see is you trying to make yourself look smart.

I'm not trying to impress anyone, I'm just telling you you're wasting your time with this.

Edit: No further comments from me

 

[deepstrasz]

it's just a endless spam grind to me.

If it's (all) about you disliking this spamming discussion, then why do you even participate?

(Case closed)

You have a fixation.

MO if you're a inexperienced map maker (not saying you're) learning other maps will not help you one example being, you could be looking at bad code which leads to poor optimization then you have a map later updated by you full of bugs & then have no idea how to fix them because it wasn't your source to begin with & then ends in with alot of confusion when you bring it to the forums asking for further help.

No, dear sir. Even if the beginning is bad, it surely will end well if there is persistence whether in learning to understand the code and/or asking for help. If one cannot do it, another may continue from there. Doing it from scratch sometimes is like reinventing the wheel for no other reason than to waste time. Not everybody can create codes but you'd be surprised when they'd be able to use one.

 

[Dr Super Good]

All maps are technically open as there is no real protection.