Plans for the Starcraft II forum tree

[Rui]

Greetings, everyone!
I have been brainstorming on the new forum tree for Starcraft II. Some prefer expansion, others prefer compression. I'm one of the last. The following forum tree is what I have planned for the coming of Starcraft II.I have already presented this to Ralle; Ralle also prefers to have forums expanded, but in a way similar to how we browsed the Art section when it existed: there were forums exclusively accessible through the links located in the top bar. In the long run, it's better because it allows the easy implementation of new forums for more games we decide to support after SC2. On the other hand, it might be a little annoying to jump from one part of the forum to the other.That is one of the reasons I've decided to take this to you. The second reason is that I can't get enough decent feedback on the Chat. The third is that my communist side's dominating me on this one.
Please, do reply, and thank you in advance!
EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'd like you to give your opinion on the scheme presented below; if you like it or not, and/or if we should keep it this way.

New forum tree

Game Modifications

	Warcraft III This root forum supports various sub-forums where you can ask for help in a problem you've run across while using the World Editor, including issues with triggers, JASS scripts, and AI. You may also tell us about your incoming Warcraft III project here (Map Development forum). You may even consult our archive of tutorials for Warcraft III or submit your own! [highlight]WARNING:[/code] Problems with World Editor Unlimited (WEU) or JASSNewGenPack (JNGP) go on the Third Party Tools forum! Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/]World Editor Help Zone[/self]*, [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/]Map Development[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/triggers-scripts-269/]Triggers & Scripts[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-iii-resources-412/]JASS Functions[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-iii-tutorials-206/]Warcraft III Tutorials[/self]
	Starcraft II {not the existing one, but a new one} This is the new mother-forum -- host of various sub-forums -- where you may ask for help on modifying the recently-released Starcraft II! Ask questions about Starcraft II's Galaxy Editor in the Galaxy Editor Help Zone and/or consult tutorials on how to use it. Tell us about your incoming project at the Starmap Port. [highlight]WARNING:[/code] Problems regarding addons for Starcraft II's Editor go on the Third Party Tools forum! Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/galaxy-editor-help-zone-647/]Galaxy Editor Help Zone[/self]*, Starmap Port, [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tutorials-654/]Starcraft II Tutorials[/self]
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/idea-factory-462/]Idea Factory[/self] Have a map idea that you are unsure of? Get opinions about your idea in here or toss out your map ideas for others to use.
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/cinematics-268/]Cinematics[/self] -- {should we delete this forum?} Need any help with cinematics? Discuss cinematic ideas and show us your cinematic skills in this board.
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-editing-tools-277/]Third Party Tools[/self] Discuss third party tools. Explore tool usage; get help using a tool, or search for a needed one.
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/]Requests[/self]* Need a resource done for your project? Post your request here, however we cannot guarantee that your request may be answered.

* – Benefits from the [Solved] [Unsolved] prefix system.
* – Benefits of a new prefix system containing the following prefixes: [Solved], [Trigger/Script], and [AI]. Prefix insertion upon thread submission is not required.
* – Benefits of a new prefix system: [Warcraft III] and [Starcraft II] prefixes. Prefix is not obligatory.
* – Inserting a prefix ([Warcraft III] or [Starcraft II]) before submission of the thread is obligatory.

Sub-Forums: Warcraft III

	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/]World Editor Help Zone[/self] Need help with Blizzard's World Editor? Ask general questions about its features and use in this forum. README! Sub-Forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/request-resource-383/]Request a Resource[/self]
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/]Map Development[/self] Talk about your developing projects. Release beta tests and get useful feedback before the final release. Maps should be attached to your post. Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/request-resource-384/]Request a Resource[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/project-recruitment-256/]Project Recruitment[/self]
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/triggers-scripts-269/]Triggers & Scripts[/self] Discussions regarding GUI triggers & JASS/AI scripts may be found here. [rainbow]Please review the » JASS Tutorials[/rainbow] [rainbow]» Trigger Tutorials[/rainbow] Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/jass-classroom-336/]JASS Classroom[/self]
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-iii-resources-412/]JASS Functions[/self] Browse our section of JASS functions in search for one you might need, submit your own functions, or look up rejected submissions in the "Graveyard". [highlight]Warning:[/code] This is NOT the place to post problems with triggers or scripts! Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/submissions-414/]Submissions[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/graveyard-639/]"Graveyard"[/self]
	[self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-iii-tutorials-206/]Warcraft III Tutorials[/self] The Tutorials forum is a large archive of the Warcraft III Community's knowledge on the use of the World Editor, as well as the arts of texturing and modeling for Warcraft III. Consult this archive if you are in need of help in any of these areas, or submit to it a compilation of knowledge you acquired in a certain area of modification of the game. Sub-forums: [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tutorial-submission-283/]Tutorial Submission[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/]General Mapping Tutorials[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/trigger-gui-editor-tutorials-279/]Trigger (GUI) Editor Tutorials[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/jass-ai-scripts-tutorials-280/]JASS/AI Scripts Tutorials[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2d-art-tutorials-281/]2D Art Tutorials[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/3d-modeling-tutorials-282/]3D Modeling Tutorials[/self], [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/miscellaneous-tutorials-456/]Miscellaneous Tutorials[/self]

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Are we discussing whether to have the two separate or seamlessly integrate the SCII boards into the current, main forum?

 

[Rui]

Yes, we are!

Most people on the Chat reacted positively to this. Anyway, if Ralle develops something new for us, we can always change later; the decision we take here is not necessarily decisive.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

To be honest, I like both ways of dealing with it. It's nice to separate them because that makes it more tidy and prevents a lot of potential confusion. On the other hand, integrating them makes it easier to keep up to date on both games.

In the end, I think it's a better solution to integrate them simply because the number of unique boards for each game (ie resources for WCIII and resources for SCII) are few compared to the total amount of boards on THW (as in current, main forum). Thus, the SCII board would ultimately have very few boards - adding all the other sections that are not necessarily related to WCIII to a secondary forum (SCII forum) would seem plain stupid.

The idea you've put together looks good, Rui.

 

[Rui]

Thank you for your input!

Update: I've removed my various notes from the scheme. I hope that makes it more readable.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

I still don't like your weird names for the map forum. Why not have it be something that makes sense, instead of weird ****? I thought we even got this settled in chat, when literally everyone went against you on this

 

[PurplePoot]

If you need separate game tags for a forum (Editing Tools, Requests) it's a good sign they should be split into their respective sections.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Erm, I have a question...
Instead of dividing the forums entirely, could we create Sub-Forums in specific Forums like the Map Development for Starcraft II and Warcraft III?
Somehow, the current way suits it just fine

PS: I hope you won't mind me saying this...

 

[PurplePoot]

It seems awkward to have to go to X -> SC2, Y -> SC2, etc when you can just go to SC2 -> X, Y, etc (since you will probably be staying within a game more often than staying within a subject).

 

[Rui]

I still don't like your weird names for the map forum. Why not have it be something that makes sense, instead of weird ****? I thought we even got this settled in chat, when literally everyone went against you on this

I forgot to change it.

Miss_Foxy, my answer would be the same as PurplePoot's.

(...)
PS: I hope you won't mind me saying this...

No, not at all. But I get the feeling people think I do mind, judging from the number of people posting here.

Thank you for replying.

 

[Statharas]

Sure, map development is needed as well.

 

[Rui]

The Map Development for SC2 was the Dominion's Congregation, which ragings was talking about. I have replaced the name with Starmap Port. Eventually, if we don't reach a consensus with the name, we'll simply name it Starcraft Projects or something. I was just hoping we'd be a little original.Feel free to toss your ideas for the name of that forum in here.
P.S. -- Sorry, PurplePoot, I forgot to reply to this:

If you need separate game tags for a forum (Editing Tools, Requests) it's a good sign they should be split into their respective sections.

We won't need prefixes («tags») for Third Party Tools; every tool has an unique name and thus it's easy to distinguish the subject. Idea Factory might not necessarily need prefixes; I'm not sure about this one, but I'd like to have a central of ideas for both games, as well as expand it to allow not to just maps, but artistic resources (skins, models, icons) and spells.I've been considering removing Cinematics because it has next to no activity. People post their questions about cinematic triggers and show their cinematic projects there, but the first should go on the World Editor Help Zone and the second should go on Map Development. CMarket wanted his The Lone Panther series on Map Development and I kept in on Cinematics in hope of increasing the activity of the forum, but CMarket and his project might have lost from it. Else it'll just be kept as a sub-forum of Map Development.As a matter of fact, none in the staff have said anything about my idea to delete the Cinematics forum, and I'd appreciate having feedback on it.Considering the activity of the Requests forum, we might need to create an unique forum for SC2. I was hoping we could have it outside the root forums, though, because of the «last post in thread x». For most people, the Requests forum is not a place of particular interest, and those people would rather know what's happening around the Map Development and/or the help zones.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Cinematics forum should be deleted. Heck, I even suggested this back in 2007

 

[-Kobas-]

Why not to create another sub forum or whatever like:
Warcraft III Modding
but about sc2

Starcraft II Modding

Galaxy Editor Help Zone Need help with Blizzard's Galaxy Editor? Ask general questions about its features and use in this forum. README! Sub-Forums: Request a Resource Map Development Talk about your developing projects. Release beta tests and get useful feedback before the final release. Maps should be attached to your post. Sub-Forums: Request a Resource, Project Recruitment, Idea Factory Triggers & Scripts Discussions regarding GUI triggers & JASS/AI scripts may be found here. Please review the » JASS Tutorials » Trigger Tutorials Cinematics Need any help with cinematics? Discuss cinematic ideas and show us your cinematic skills in this board. Starcraft Editing Tools Discuss third party tools. Explore tool usage; get help using a tool, or search for a needed one. Requests Need a resource done for your project? Post your request here, however we cannot guarantee that your request may be answered.

Well icons can be different and should be, names and text also (I just copy this one )

We have another problem here:
Warcraft III Resources

Add them above to Warcraft III Modding
and create another one for SC2

Also Warcraft III Hosted Projects
Should be changed into THW Hosted Projects or whatever

Same for Warcraft III Tutorials

 

[Rui]

A copy of Warcraft III Modding was what I referred to as the «expanded mode», as opposed to compression, in my scheme. Ralle's idea was to have something similar to Warcraft III Modding, but accessible only through the top links.
Your idea, -Kobas-, was the same as Pyritie's: to have another category of forums. I personally dislike this because our forum, as it is, already has enough categories, and I already keep a good number of them closed (or «collapsed», as Pyritie said). Adding a «SC2 Modding» plus Hosted Projects plus Galaxy snippets will make the board ridiculously huge for people who want to keep both Warcraft III-related and Starcraft II-related category columns open.
The hosted projects will be a topic of discussion reserved for later. Nobody has mentioned them until now, but I'm certain we'll have SC2 Hosted Projects, too.

P.S. -- Just to clarify, this does not mean we won't have resource sections exclusively for Starcraft II.

 

[-Kobas-]

Your idea, -Kobas-, was the same as Pyritie's: to have another category of forums.

Yes another category but add that one and delete few forums!
Check attached picture!

Tutorials can be added to each forum as sub-forum:
Example terrain tutorials can be added to Terrain Board
Modeling tut to Modeling & Animation

But wc3 GUI tutorials to Triggers & Scripts for wc3 in Warcraft III Modding

This way we can remove WHOLE Warcraft III Tutorials forum...

Warcraft III Resources is JASS add that to Triggers & Scripts ????
this way we can remove another forum!

And about Warcraft III Hosted Projects just rename i to THW hosted projects, new sc2 projects can be added normally to this forum...

 

[Rui]

I don't think people would approve of that idea. It's better to have tutorials in their own forum. Also, Tutorials are a category that you can keep closed, while «Starcraft II Modding» would be a category you'd most likely want to keep open.

 

[-Kobas-]

Well this was my idea, you can find few more and create a poll

 

[Arowanna]

I can see already that this is not going to be what I expected it to be, but I was expecting a "brand new Starcraft II Forum", fully devided from the Warcraft one... Something like this,

What I expected

| News | Chat | Pastebin | Donations | Rules |	. . . . . Space between Warcraft II and Starcraft II . . . . .	| User CP | Log Out |
Warcraft III | Maps | Skins | Icons | Models | Spells | Tools | Jass | Packs | Forums |	. . . . . Space between Warcraft II and Starcraft II . . . . .	Starcraft II | Maps | Skins | Icons | Models | Spells | Tools | Jass | Packs | Forums |

News

Starcraft II - Most Recents Map . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Skin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Icon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Warcraft III - Most Recents Map . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Skin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Icon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[TD][/TD] [TD][/TD]

This is a Printscreen of what I see! I know, people with smaller screens than 1920x1080 will get a messed up version of what I did here...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Arowanna92, you clearly have not done interface design courses... it is needlessly large and complex while having no support for expansion when WC4 or D3 comes out.

Also the most major thing you do is fail to realise SC2 has no maps, icons, models or skins due to all of those being provided by blizzard on their battlenet service. Yes you could download them here but they would be totally usless as mods will exist with those art in them already and you can only play custom maps downloaded from battlenet (if custom maps work outside the US).

It is pointless duplicating forum sections which hardly change or are never used. For example third party tools could deal with both SC2 and WC3. Terrain and all art forums likewise as there is hardly much difference.

The only thing I do not understand is why not merge trigger and scripts with world editor helpzone so that it is symetrical with the SC2 layout, afterall it is to be expected that activity will drop in both those forums as more and more people switch over to Starcraft II.

 

[Rui]

Arowanna92, Ralle also wants forums completely separated (not in the exact way you posted). You may get something closer to what you've been expecting, but not so soon, as Ralle is still working on it.

[...]
The only thing I do not understand is why not merge trigger and scripts with world editor helpzone so that it is symetrical with the SC2 layout, afterall it is to be expected that activity will drop in both those forums as more and more people switch over to Starcraft II.

I have tried to get these forums merged in the past. The staff always replied negatively to this idea. I'd much rather have them mingled as well.

 

[Statharas]

| News | Chat | Pastebin | Donations | Rules | Forums |
|Warcraft III| Maps | Skins | Icons | Models | Spells | Tools | Jass | Packs | Tutorials |
|Starcraft 2| Skins | Icons | Models | Spells | Tools | Galaxy | Packs | Tutorials |

Or, like this.
| News | Chat | Pastebin | Donations | Rules | Forums |
|

Maps |

Skins |

Icons |

Models |

Spells |

Tools |

Jass |

Packs |

Tutorials |
|

Skins |

Icons | Models |

Spells |

Tools |

Galaxy |

Packs | Tutorials |

Or, you could use pictures completely. Like, making a button icon for the hive, and using that for the first line, a Wc3 style button for the 2nd, and a Sc2 for the 3rd.

 

[Rui]

That would be nice, but like DSG said, we have to think in the long term. Imagine having to create more buttons for more games. We'd get a huge column.
Another option would be to create a drop-down menu. See where we currently have «Starcraft II»? We could have a drop-down menu that lists the games. Then another sub-drop-down menu containing each game's respective sections.
Example: You click the drop-down menu and hover your mouse over Warcraft III. Another menu opens listing all the sections available for the game.

But this is an idea for Ralle's remake of the system. Ralle spoke about this on the Chat today and he does not seem to approve of this scheme. I wanted to know of people's preferences with this thread, but the communication with the community has been astoundingly low.
I still thank everyone who posted here.
If anyone's wondering, Ralle will probably create the SC2 forums (or not create and leave them as they are) inside the current Starcraft II forum. I opposed, but without support, my opinion isn't worth much.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Well I guess it will work to a degree. However in the future he may want to move WC3 to do the same when it reduces from the source of the bulk activity of this site as frankly WC3 will sadly not last forever.

 

[mrzwach]

While we won't need to provide resources to users (as Bnet already does so via mods), I still do believe it would be great to have showcases of some sort, where people can show off their work, allowing mapmakers to find mods for what they want. Same goes for maps; Blizzard's current system is pretty bad and it would be nice to have an alternative way to find them.

 

[Arowanna]

@DSG, I didn't know that to be honest, I haven't read that much about modding in SC2, but thanks for informing me about it. Not that I understand how it will work, but whatever...
Or.. I must ask:
If I want to share my Models and Textures, how will people be able to use them in the Galaxy Editor? By mods?

@Rui, Drop-down-menus sounds really really good.

Arowanna92, you clearly have not done interface design courses...

As true as it can get, but I'm taking my first Web-design Class in a few months (had to do something in school). Not that it helps right now, or ever

 

[Just_Spectating]

well currently, i like the idea that when you click the StarcraftII tab, it locates you to the subforum, (it's all blue and coolio) so couldn't we just replace the subforum with a brand new forum? then give it a War3 tab to switch back over to this (black and green with vines on the side n oldness)

 

[The Panda]

well currently, i like the idea that when you click the StarcraftII tab, it locates you to the subforum, (it's all blue and coolio) so couldn't we just replace the subforum with a brand new forum? then give it a War3 tab to switch back over to this (black and green with vines on the side n oldness)

I like this.

 

[Rui]

I believe that is Ralle's intention for the mechanic of THW 2. What I was suggesting here was merely a temporary arrangement.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I'm not gonna get into conflicts about the name cause I never cared that much about lore, so whatever names you choose, unless some lame non-existent name, is fine.

Just - Spells should be called 'Abilities' cause spells..in sc2.. , Skins - 'Textures', Models- Models, rest posted by Stathis is fine. Less confusion too when at least some are different names from the war3 ones.