Paired Mapping Contest #1 Poll

Bob27 · Oct 2, 2007

Welcome to the Poll for the Hive Workshop's first Paired Mapping Contest! Before we get down to voting, theres a couple of things you should keep in mind.

If you vote for yourself, your vote will not count. Also if you create multiple accounts to vote for yourself, all of your votes will not count, you will loose points and you may be disqualified from the contest. You should also download all of the maps, and play them, before voting for one of the maps.

Cardiators

Armaggedon

Tides of the Elements

Beer Beer

Kwaliti · Oct 2, 2007

What is your favourite entry?
City of Drugs, of course.

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

Yay! Going to start testing the maps!

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 2, 2007

I vote for:

City Of Drugs

Nice work mates!!This map rocked!

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

O.O Thats fast voteing, did you really play them all first?

Kwaliti · Oct 2, 2007

When the map is finished, we test it out.

Xsilver07 · Oct 2, 2007

I didn't actually mean to vote for myself as it was a laggy misclick on my part, if you could ignore that it would be great, playign the other maps as i go down the list.

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

Bob27 said:
Welcome to the Poll for the Hive Workshop's first Paired Mapping Contest! Before we get down to voting, theres a couple of things you should keep in mind.

If you vote for yourself, your vote will not count. Also if you create multiple accounts to vote for yourself, all of your votes will not count, you will loose points and you may be disqualified from the contest. You should also download all of the maps, and play them, before voting for one of the maps.

Did you see that or am I I missunderstanding you, l0w_kwaliti?

Kwaliti · Oct 2, 2007

I tested the maps when they were finished, BEFORE the poll

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 2, 2007

Ok,there are lots of people who tested the maps before the poll.There's no need to go against them.

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

I just misunderstood what he said, im not going against him.

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 2, 2007

It's ok then.low_kwaliti just told that he tested the map before poll was opened.I think it's accepted.

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

I know, I just wasnt sure he (And OTHER people too, not just him) tested all of them before they voted not just one map.

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 2, 2007

Xsilver07 said:
I didn't actually mean to vote for myself as it was a laggy misclick on my part, if you could ignore that it would be great, playign the other maps as i go down the list.

AND REMEMBER!!You are not allowed to vote for your map!

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 2, 2007

UchihaSasuke.gr said:
AND REMEMBER!!You are not allowed to vote for your map!

He said it was a mistake...

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 2, 2007

Yeah i know.Just talking generally.People might be confused

mrdarknezz · Oct 2, 2007

City of Drugs for President ;D, wait wrong City of drugs for the win ;D

Bob27 · Oct 3, 2007

Xsilver07 said:
I didn't actually mean to vote for myself as it was a laggy misclick on my part, if you could ignore that it would be great, playign the other maps as i go down the list.

Yea thats ok, I will just ignore it. And it looks like City of Drugs is winning. Haven't got that many votes in yet though.

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 3, 2007

Yeah,the poll has just started.

Doctor-Pepper · Oct 3, 2007

Lol, its great to be on the winning side

As far as ive checked inside the World Editor (maps like beer and beer and other), City Of Drugs was the only one that fixed memory leaks ! :O

frooker · Oct 3, 2007

wow! :O
guess you checked wrong

I'll test them tomorrow

Doctor-Pepper · Oct 3, 2007

Well frooker, i dont know much of jass, but your Beer Beer leaked in every Gui trigger it could

Jass is probobly clean, right?

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 3, 2007

Yeah,it's bad when GUI leaks and it's even worse when you can't fix it :/

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 3, 2007

I tested afew, getting ready to test beer beer right now!

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 3, 2007

Doctor-Pepper i really wanna see City Of Drugs to be hosted sometime..What do you think?

Unhit · Oct 3, 2007

BEER BEER does indeed still leak in a lot of its GUI triggers, simply because when unleaking, we usually use JASS functions simply because of using locals (which can be used with GUI and the custom function thingie too, but that's just weird imo, converting the whole trigger is easier). Since frooker doesn't really know enough about JASS to properly do this with all his triggers and I haven't had the time yet, some triggers aren't unleaked. However, not only are GUI triggers a minority in BEER BEER (and not all of them have things in them that leak), most of them are also triggers that aren't called very often. For example, the most important source of leaks in any map that has spawning units, the spawn triggers, are unleaked and even run on natives. So performance has never been a problem so far, even with 9 players and after playing the exthrough all waves (and believe me, my PC is slow). Of course I'll fix all triggers sooner or later, I just didn't have the time yet. And if we want to discuss performance here, I think the few leaks are less of a problem than tons of globals. I'm not an expert about this though, it's just a guess. I also don't want to discuss anything like this here really...just saying that your map is the only one that's removing leaks is absurd (also it's not 100% leak-free, the trigger "crush team" e.g. leaks 2 unitgroups - but hey, that's irrelevant for performance so well....i just want to say it's a bit exaggerated what you said), and also there's more to performance than just removing leaks (although it is indeed a very, if not the most important, point).

//e: i think i misread, you didn't say you'd have everything fixed. also as i said i didn't mean to be offensive, i just hope my point is clear.

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 3, 2007

I tesed final fortress armaggedon beer beer city druga

So far ive done:
Final Fortress: It was a single player ONE minigame. You build units and get some upgrades. :O Was very boring

Armaggedon: It was way to easy, just tell your units to attack any units that spawn and you own them, nothing much ever happened.

BEER BEER: It wasnt THAT great, but it was pretty cool.

City of drugs: Its a fun LOAP like map, better than any other ive seen. Danceings the best job ever, I got to be know as elvis and get paind 7 per click witch got me like 10000 each time. It took to to win though. Also, when I hosted it look at picture to see what somebody said.

Direfury · Oct 3, 2007

DL,you do remember the bosses?First boss,if your not alert,could be your last.
Second boss is much stronger,eventually a large group shows up,and their demigod has about 1M HP or something and then after I decided to weaken the last group of boss monsters.Also there were alot of chances to lose:
The Lieautenant
The brothers
The Dwarf
The Seeker
That guy from the future.

13lack.1)ragon · Oct 4, 2007

i voted cardiators (since i cant vote myself lol)
its a fun game.
i probably wont recheck this site till friday when the judges give their scoring. chances are itll appear on saturday though

Dreadnought[dA] · Oct 4, 2007

*Sigh* The Instant you don't name your map something destructive or druggish, nobody even checks it out... I bet nobody has checked HB except Judges

Doctor-Pepper · Oct 4, 2007

Lol, Unhit, CrushTeam does not leak UnitGroup

I know that u refer to create "3 Unit_X " as a UnitGroup, but its NOT, as every unit is created one by one.
Now if i use "Issue order to last created unit group", than it's a leak. Check the screenshot.
Anyway, even if it IS a leak (i dont think so), there is probobly no way to fix it in GUI.

-----------------------------------------
Beer Beer

On the other hand, ive tested Beer-Beer trigger number one (

) , Map Initialization and that programm found -- 16 -- !! Memory leaks, leaking Unit groups, player groupd and points. If that is not impressive

Dont get me wrong, we are not playing war here

, but i'm just making my point

Unhit · Oct 4, 2007

I had thought that it would be a leak because i didn't know the function set the bj variable. I had also read it in discussions a couple of time so i thought that was the case. I'm sorry there, it's obviously wrong then. And btw, if you refer to GetLastCreatedUnitGroup then, i'm pretty sure it wouldn't leak since it's just a bj variable and doesn't create a whole new object, for the function looks like

JASS:

function CreateNUnitsAtLoc takes integer count, integer unitId, player whichPlayer, location loc, real face returns group
    call GroupClear(bj_lastCreatedGroup)
    loop
        set count = count - 1
        exitwhen count < 0
        call CreateUnitAtLocSaveLast(whichPlayer, unitId, loc, face)
        call GroupAddUnit(bj_lastCreatedGroup, bj_lastCreatedUnit)
    endloop
    return bj_lastCreatedGroup
endfunction

This means no new object is created, just the old one is changed, so it leaks nothing new into the memory (at least to my knowledge - if every time you call something bj-ish would leak, all those GetLastCreatedUnit() etc stuff would leak, wouldn't it?).

And I did say that BEER BEER has leaks. But also that they don't influence performance ingame (we will still fix them, which I also said). But at least it loads quite rapidly thanks to the low number of globals, and as i had said, even if there would be a unitgroup leaking, it wouldn't matter for performance - and my point was there's also other things mattering. Anyway, seems you were right with the CreateNUnits thingie, so sorry there.

Btw, gonna test all maps online together with frooker now!

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 4, 2007

City Of Drugs is a major map.I don't think there's a better map right now.

Doctor-Pepper · Oct 4, 2007

I am realy glad to hear that Unchiha, ive realy worked hard on that map.

Unhit, muhahaha, I am right

I know that u wont do any harm with those 20-30 Gui leaks. Even to see a little performance drain, ull need 30-50 leaks every second. And even than ull only see it after 10-20 min playing.
I also think that Beer Beer is a great map, with very good terrein and gameplay.
P.S. I dont think that my City Of Drugs, with all those 170 global variables, took even 1/10 of the time that took to load all those trees in beer-beer

Unhit · Oct 4, 2007

I don't know, it's just the impression I got, it took a long time to load on my PC. But as I said, it's a very very old PC, so i can't really tell why. I didn't get to play CoD in multiplayer yet, i hope I'll get to soon. So far i only played in singleplayer and walked around a bit. The best thing i discovered so far was that you can make love to others/jack off. I just thought "wtf, how stupid (in a positive way) but cool is that?" and hammered escape XD that was pretty funny. I think ill host a game of it later today and see how it works in multiplayer

At least from what i've heard so far it's gotta be fun, so i'm looking forwards to that!
And yeah about the leaks, let's just say we both made a good job triggering and will continue improving stuff, i think that's something we can both agree on

So far I've played Final Fortress and Armageddon. A short feedback on both:

Final Fortress
I liked the idea of ingame-difficulty-changing so if you'd find yourself stuck in a situation where you'd lose, you could avoid that. Apart from that I'm sorry I must say I found the gameplay rather boring...you just start with all of the buildings that you need and then train some units, upgrades are only available with the gold you get periodically (please correct me if im wrong) and imo priests were totally useless, especially with knights because they were just riding far ahead from them. I think the basic idea is not bad for a singleplayer map, it just needs more features, like maybe limited player control over the units by e.g. giving global orders or so, and stuff like a hero for the player (heroes are always a great fun factor!).

Armageddon
I didn't find it hard at all, especially the bosses were very boring in that they simply had 17861196181 hit points, but weren't really tough since the oracle could hold them in stun for about 60% of the time and that space marine dude put stunlock on any unit it focussed. I didn't even really micro my units a lot and still beat it easily. Then I got to the point where the 30 minutes are over and I had to fight through the cave which I did and I killed everything except for the last Mur'Gul which always got its hit points back to 50%, even in stunlock and even though all other units are dead. If there was a trick to beat it, i didn't find it

I have to say though that I haven't played the previous map, so maybe that also made it a bit uninteresting.. I will play the previous one when i have the time!
Here's a couple of suggestions for you:
- Flash the Quest Log Button and send a quest message to the player after the conversation, telling them what their Main Quest is. it is indeed pretty obvious, but that simply would be handier.
- Create a timer window telling you how much time is left until your quets is finished succesfully.
- Please change the standard interface order icons back to normal, i found some rather confusing, especially the orb for attack (although i use hotkeys, the interface looked confusing to me).
- Do something about unit collizion sizes and pathing. It's hard to move around in town with all the peasants and critters and npc warriors, once i even got a trained priest stuck just south of the farm.
Apart from that i liked that basically, there was always something to do with some creeps spawning. I think it would be cooler though if you could ping the minimap telling the player about a spawning wave, maybe also with a text message from one of the two heroes. And make the waves a bit harder

Also, I think as the game proceeds, difficulty doesn't really increase. The toughest boss I fought (tough meaning it took the longest time

) was some thing (a naga i think !?) after some wendigo style thingie spawning on the left lane, i just killed it right when the next boss on that lane spawned. Afterwards, bosses had less HP again, effectively meaning they were easier.
Would be cool if you'd consider my suggestions, i think that might seriously make gameplay more enjoyable

. I'll try and play the previous map of that series soon then!

Later today I think I'll finally get to play CoD, ToE, Cardiators, Heaven Bound and Deadly Night. Looking forwards to all these!

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 4, 2007

†-Revellion-† said:
DL,you do remember the bosses?First boss,if your not alert,could be your last.
Second boss is much stronger,eventually a large group shows up,and their demigod has about 1M HP or something and then after I decided to weaken the last group of boss monsters.Also there were alot of chances to lose:
The Lieautenant
The brothers
The Dwarf
The Seeker
That guy from the future.

=/ All the bosses were easy. You know why? They were perma-stunned so they could never attack any of my units. Kinda...lame...that I can stun that much.

Xsilver07 · Oct 4, 2007

Currently me and my fiancee are wrapped up in work, class, and WoW so we havn't had much time to test many of the maps.

Anyone have any comments on cardiators? We havn't touched the map in the editor since it was submitted, i plan on working on it again once the contest is over, but for now i'm just relaxing. If anyone has any comments/suggestions we'd love to hear em

Great job so far everyone!

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 4, 2007

Xsilver07 said:
Currently me and my fiancee are wrapped up in work, class, and WoW so we havn't had much time to test many of the maps.

Anyone have any comments on cardiators? We havn't touched the map in the editor since it was submitted, i plan on working on it again once the contest is over, but for now i'm just relaxing. If anyone has any comments/suggestions we'd love to hear em

Great job so far everyone!

I was testing cardiators but I got kicked of the comp befor I could do much.

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 4, 2007

Yeah,that's how bad leaks are

Direfury · Oct 5, 2007

Unhit,I was trying to make a timer,but I never really studied up on any leaderboard-type stuff,I also suggest the God Mode cheat ONLY for getting rid of that one white knight...I made sure things were steady between bosses so even the worst players had a chance to bring in some more troops.The issues with the heroes:
the "caster" marine:
easy to kill once he runs out of mana,this is intentional.
Overly strong spells (Boss-only recommended) like the bomb.
the dwarf:
Electromine creates lag but does massive damage with a low cooldown,this is a diciplinary action to help guide you along the game.
the brothers:
uncontrollable,but strong as supporting fighters,barely contributes anything.They are there for the story.
The Seeker:
A support character,best for handling the waves with his own troops,I suggest using him when the Demigod and Warbeasts arrive (minions & such)
Lieautenant Terk:
A royal guard,with every game he gains powers such as Royal Blood and Legacy.A great unit to have when dealing with bosses or the last level.

Zed'Ok Champion:
The triggers were supposed to make you kill a certain Zed'Ok before allowing you to defeat the Champion.

Other details:
I took the time to make a few custom animals,personalize the pens.
There are two fountains and some creepy rat person on your team.
The old man leading the attack into the cave is the brothers' father,he and the brothers come into play with a CHAMPION in Armaggedon V3,where you meet the Elves,This one is MUCH harder (The two sasquatch things are in a BIG group,right after the revived and enraged Demigod,along with a Champion who is as unbeatable as your own)

Trust me,if things go well,i'll keep submitting customized versions of the Armaggedon Campaign levels to these contests.I think it'd be quite popular.

Unhit · Oct 5, 2007

Okay, let me know when the sequel is done

For the timer, you just need to create a timer window there. Since you probably only have that one timer, you won't even need to declare variables (although it would be handier) so just try that, it's really easy

T-bone · Oct 5, 2007

Woot! Go brother your map Final Fortress was tight! I loved the extra gore and stuff, plus original blizzard models are da bomb! +approval or something

Bob27 · Oct 5, 2007

T-bone, would you mind telling me why you have the same IP as Scyth-Master, who just so happens to be one of the authors of the map you voted for?

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 5, 2007

I think he is his brother.Anyway I don't think it's fair.

Kwaliti · Oct 5, 2007

Bob27 said:
T-bone, would you mind telling me why you have the same IP as Scyth-Master, who just so happens to be one of the authors of the map you voted for?

PWNED!

HeretoDLstuff · Oct 5, 2007

UchihaSasuke.gr said:
I think he is his brother.Anyway I don't think it's fair.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41015
Still though, its still kinda unfair haveing your brothers as sisters sigh up to vote you. I could get 11 votes doing that just becaus Im in a big faimly...(If they were willing to do it anyways)

Unhit · Oct 5, 2007

Same here

and that'd be the same as getting friends (that haven't registered yet) with who you play your maps online to vote...

T-bone · Oct 5, 2007

Bob27 said:
T-bone, would you mind telling me why you have the same IP as Scyth-Master, who just so happens to be one of the authors of the map you voted for?

Same house, I moved in with him a couple of months ago due to financial debt and I'm getting job interviews while I'm here. He only has one computer, so I apologize if it seems like I'm cheatin' or something here. Well, doesn't matter really. But, that explains the IP address.

Gausslander · Oct 5, 2007

Wow, yeah, but you haven't really gotten an interview yet... have you? JK brother, and BTW it was between my map and city of drugs for him, I voted for City of Drugs but apparently he thought my mini-game was better.

UchihaSasuke.gr · Oct 5, 2007

HeretoDLstuff said:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41015
Still though, its still kinda unfair haveing your brothers as sisters sigh up to vote you. I could get 11 votes doing that just becaus Im in a big faimly...(If they were willing to do it anyways)

Ok,I am not anyone to judge here though.