[General] New to editor. Where to start?

[Momentum]

Hello all

I have just recently comeback to Warcraft 3 after about 6 years. I'm quite surprised this game is still going. I used to play Dota all stars, Footmen Frenzy, different TDs and mainly Azeroth Wars a lot. However I never used the world editor before ever.

I'm just wondering where should I start learning? Is there like a beginners guide or some Youtube vidoes I can watch of other people editing maps? I'm more interested in more Azeroth Wars type or Broken alliances type map and won't really deal with more complicated maps and triggers.

Also Should I learn JavaScript before I learn how to do this?


And another Question I had is what is the best way to BluePrint a map before putting it into the editor. Specially for a huge map. I rather pretty much to know almost everything I'm going to even open up the editor, then I can input my blueprint from English to editor. My question is what platform do you recommend for me to Blue Print. Should I just use Microsoft word or google docs or is there a better option.

I think you guys might be thinking wtf bro? this game has been out for 15 years and you have the audacity just come here to ask where to start editing now? yea I know, I know but I never really had time at my hand back then nor good understanding of English. Also with a Warcraft 3 remake/remaster at works, I think it's the best time to start learning the basics of WE.

And a final and sorta an irrelevant question. Is it ever possible to implant sorta like a squad system for Warcraft 3 kinda like Total War War hammer or Company of heros 2 where bunch of units are placed into one squad. This way you still have large armies but are easier for the player to control.


Thanks and would appreciate guidance. Any staff please move this to the relevant forum section if this is not. I'm new here.

 

[Pyrogasm]

The very first thing you should do is download the 'updated' World Editor: SharpCraft World Editor Extended Bundle and then replace the addresses.xml with the one in this post so the editor actually runs. With that set up you're ready to use basically every resource at your disposal! WEX allows you to break a lot of the internal WE limits to make bigger maps or ones with more doodads, etc..

I'm just wondering where should I start learning? Is there like a beginners guide or some Youtube vidoes I can watch of other people editing maps?

Check out the tutorials section of this site and wc3c.net and you can find pretty much any kind of tutorial with a little searching. wc3c specifically has a "for beginners" section. This seems like it might be the best introduction for you: Basic Mapping Video Tutorial

Also Should I learn JavaScript before I learn how to do this?

No, the language used in triggers is called JASS, and it only exists in wc3. Users of JASS have extended it to vJASS which gives it better OOP characteristics. You don't have to understand much JASS or vJASS to implement systems and code from them, which you can find in the websites' resources sections: thw, wc3c.

what is the best way to BluePrint a map before putting it into the editor.

IMO you should just work in the editor. It's not finnickey and doesn't crash often so you shouldn't have any problems. There really isn't a better tool for 'planning' because so much of what you have to do is changing Object Editor fields or clicking somewhere on the screen.

Is it ever possible to implant sorta like a squad system for Warcraft 3 kinda like Total War War hammer or Company of heros 2 where bunch of units are placed into one squad. This way you still have large armies but are easier for the player to control.

It can be done but the UI probably wouldn't be functional, it wouldn't show up as a squad on your "selected units" part of the UI. You could probably group units by type and with enough increase the hp of one of them, give the others Ghost, and then cause them to repeat orders the controllable one had. Then if you had 4 selectable units before, you instead have 1 selectable unit and 3 unselectable. Then as the buffed-hp one loses hp you kill off the ghosted squadmates 1 by 1. so with 4 units per squad when the main unit hits <75%, <50%, <25% you would kill a unit. That's a lot of trigger work for never having done this before, so I wouldn't recommend you attempt that. Someone might have made a system for it already?

 

[Wark]

Here's a good tutorial section for you to start:
The Ultimate Beginners Terrain Tutorial
For more specific things, you can look here:
General Mapping Tutorials

Hive has a plethora of user generated tutorials for the starting editor/designer.
I would say java script is optional. As for using BluePrint, I've never heard of anyone doing that.

I'd recommend becoming familiar with the map editing tools in the base editor, personally.
With all the upcoming updates, it's risky using any 3rd party editor programs.

Also note: you can always start your map small, then extend the map boundaries.
In fact, I highly recommend doing that as a design practice.
There's nothing uglier than starting a map with a HUGE area, only to have most of it empty most of the time.
(It took me 6 months to complete a map with a 256 x 256 area fully, triggers and terraining included, doing it for 4 hours a day)
As for a squad system, that is completely possible (I'm currently making a project with the Warhammer universe in mind.)

 

[Kyrbi0]

@Pyrogasm WEX?? Pffft. Vanilla all the way!

(answer my PM why won't you answer do you hate me what did I do I'm sorry for murdering your pet dog plz forgive me)

 

[disruptive_]

Learn just how you are accostumed to learn in every aspect of your life.
If you are a experimenter, go and experiment the editor. Otherwise, if you are cautelous, stalk these forums, specially the tutorial section and absorb information prior using the editor.

I would say that the natural learning proccess is;

1. Terrain (Layer Menu, or "T", also, and from now on be aware of the hotkeys you can use) editor.
Results are gained by experimenting with the different tile textures, levels, cliffs, etc.
There are some "hacks" and overall tricks to improve the terrain results that may be hard to spot with raw experience, but there is a tutorial section for this specific topic.

2. Object (F6) editor, specially: 2.1. Units; 2.2. Abilities; 2.3. Items; 2.4. Upgrades; and 2.5. Doodads (these objects have a close relation with terrain). To place units and other objects, be either the default or customized ones, you go to the Layer Menu.
Results are obtained here by modifiyng the fields of existing objects, in creative ways, or directly creating custom objects.
There are LOTS of "hacks" and tricks here. Maybe too many unintuitive things also. There are even object fields that most experimented users don't even know what they do (there is ignorance).
Most abilities have fixed fields, so you can't create field on existing abilities, ie. you can't make footman's Defend ability be an aoe type ability, or make it so it grants damage to the caster (there are inherent limitations).

3. Import (F12) manager/editor.
Just look at the resource section and see some custom models/icons/triggers and such that can be used in your map.
This modding aspect has the intrinsic but overexpanding limit of availability of course. Since you are new, looking at the resource section can produce the "candy shop" effect in which you end up looking at the stuff but doing nothing with it.
There are some insights about importing resources, like "less is more";"maps over 128 MB size can't be played in BNET"; or things like that, but the thing you should know is that importing resources is a quick way to add some result to your map. If you do it meaningless the result is marginal tho.
Prety sure there is an import tutorial.

4. Trigger (F4) editor.
For expanding the limits of the inherent object editor limitations is that exist the trigger editor.
Basically, for achieving most features (in the mechanic aspect, as UI elements are a different thing i guess) that the vanilla Warcraft III RTS experience and the object editor can't give, Ie. the squad system you are talking about, you will need to master the trigger editor. Depending on how ambitious that feature is, you will need to master the trigger editor even harder or not that much actually.

This is perhaps the most dynamic feature that the editor has, and everything you learn to do with this editor, can add lots of value to your map.
With triggers you can start adding real "features" to your map.

To START using the trigger editor, you don't really need much programming knowledge or knowledge over a particular programming language, as it has a default, user friendly interface. This interface in fact has the underlying functions and code in the real WC3 language that is called JASS, so in the end is a graphic interface to make programming be less like using the Notepad, and more like Powerpoint or some bullshit analogy like that.
Altough user friendly, this default interface the trigger editor has is limited in itself, and you don't even gain access to all functions the JASS language has for you, while also being overall very inefficient in arguably every aspect worth mentioning. Blizzard partenalism?.

You can script in JASS directly though (more on this someday), but be aware that JASS is rather unforgiving, and the scripting paradigm it follows is, well... it doesn't have an accepted modern paradigm at all. Resuming: JASS is so deficient that some dudes on the wc3 modding community even bothered to create and continiously develop until this exact day, a never ending series of modified compiling programs that allow modders to program following more intuitive paradigms and characteristics, for easier coding, and in the end improving the quality of life of trigger editor users. Note that this programs don't change the base WC3 language - JASS is invincible- , but rather just allow people to write in a determinated fictional language, most of them have some similarities to Java, but compiling unto JASS.
I will not make an historical review over this aspect, but just redirect you to the post of Pyrogasm.

Trigger Editor; PERSONAL SUGGESTION: if you already know everything else and have your fingers itching for some coding, i suggest to directly download WEX, following Pyrogasm instructions. WEX is an extension to the vanilla World Editor, made by HIVE members, that allows you write in a language called vJASS, but also has some additional features, like the JASS function list, their members, a syntax highlighter (so if you want to write in JASS you atleast have some color), and some more things. All these features, not only allows you to avoid the mental disfiguration you will surely experience while trying to code in JASS with the vanilla editor, but will also facilitate the overall learning proccess about the trigger editor. Another convenience factor, is that lots of code resources (Spells section), specially complex scripts and systems, are written in vJASS, so you will need a vJASS compiler (WEX provides this) to import and use them on your maps.

I don't know if there is a real risk on moving to vJASS, as it will be featured in the upcoming 1.30 WC3 patch as an "official" (alternative i would say) script language, in fact this exact situation makes such decision less risky.

 

[Momentum]

The very first thing you should do is download the 'updated' World Editor: SharpCraft World Editor Extended Bundle and then replace the addresses.xml with the one in this post so the editor actually runs. With that set up you're ready to use basically every resource at your disposal! WEX allows you to break a lot of the internal WE limits to make bigger maps or ones with more doodads, etc..

Check out the tutorials section of this site and wc3c.net and you can find pretty much any kind of tutorial with a little searching. wc3c specifically has a "for beginners" section. This seems like it might be the best introduction for you: Basic Mapping Video Tutorial

No, the language used in triggers is called JASS, and it only exists in wc3. Users of JASS have extended it to vJASS which gives it better OOP characteristics. You don't have to understand much JASS or vJASS to implement systems and code from them, which you can find in the websites' resources sections: thw, wc3c.

IMO you should just work in the editor. It's not finnickey and doesn't crash often so you shouldn't have any problems. There really isn't a better tool for 'planning' because so much of what you have to do is changing Object Editor fields or clicking somewhere on the screen.

It can be done but the UI probably wouldn't be functional, it wouldn't show up as a squad on your "selected units" part of the UI. You could probably group units by type and with enough increase the hp of one of them, give the others Ghost, and then cause them to repeat orders the controllable one had. Then if you had 4 selectable units before, you instead have 1 selectable unit and 3 unselectable. Then as the buffed-hp one loses hp you kill off the ghosted squadmates 1 by 1. so with 4 units per squad when the main unit hits <75%, <50%, <25% you would kill a unit. That's a lot of trigger work for never having done this before, so I wouldn't recommend you attempt that. Someone might have made a system for it already?

Learn just how you are accostumed to learn in every aspect of your life.
If you are a experimenter, go and experiment the editor. Otherwise, if you are cautelous, stalk these forums, specially the tutorial section and absorb information prior using the editor.

I would say that the natural learning proccess is;

1. Terrain (Layer Menu, or "T", also, and from now on be aware of the hotkeys you can use) editor.
Results are gained by experimenting with the different tile textures, levels, cliffs, etc.
There are some "hacks" and overall tricks to improve the terrain results that may be hard to spot with raw experience, but there is a tutorial section for this specific topic.

2. Object (F6) editor, specially: 2.1. Units; 2.2. Abilities; 2.3. Items; 2.4. Upgrades; and 2.5. Doodads (these objects have a close relation with terrain). To place units and other objects, be either the default or customized ones, you go to the Layer Menu.
Results are obtained here by modifiyng the fields of existing objects, in creative ways, or directly creating custom objects.
There are LOTS of "hacks" and tricks here. Maybe too many unintuitive things also. There are even object fields that most experimented users don't even know what they do (there is ignorance).
Most abilities have fixed fields, so you can't create field on existing abilities, ie. you can't make footman's Defend ability be an aoe type ability, or make it so it grants damage to the caster (there are inherent limitations).

3. Import (F12) manager/editor.
Just look at the resource section and see some custom models/icons/triggers and such that can be used in your map.
This modding aspect has the intrinsic but overexpanding limit of availability of course. Since you are new, looking at the resource section can produce the "candy shop" effect in which you end up looking at the stuff but doing nothing with it.
There are some insights about importing resources, like "less is more";"maps over 128 MB size can't be played in BNET"; or things like that, but the thing you should know is that importing resources is a quick way to add some result to your map. If you do it meaningless the result is marginal tho.
Prety sure there is an import tutorial.

4. Trigger (F4) editor.
For expanding the limits of the inherent object editor limitations is that exist the trigger editor.
Basically, for achieving most features (in the mechanic aspect, as UI elements are a different thing i guess) that the vanilla Warcraft III RTS experience and the object editor can't give, Ie. the squad system you are talking about, you will need to master the trigger editor. Depending on how ambitious that feature is, you will need to master the trigger editor even harder or not that much actually.

This is perhaps the most dynamic feature that the editor has, and everything you learn to do with this editor, can add lots of value to your map.
With triggers you can start adding real "features" to your map.

To START using the trigger editor, you don't really need much programming knowledge or knowledge over a particular programming language, as it has a default, user friendly interface. This interface in fact has the underlying functions and code in the real WC3 language that is called JASS, so in the end is a graphic interface to make programming be less like using the Notepad, and more like Powerpoint or some bullshit analogy like that.
Altough user friendly, this default interface the trigger editor has is limited in itself, and you don't even gain access to all functions the JASS language has for you, while also being overall very inefficient in arguably every aspect worth mentioning. Blizzard partenalism?.

You can script in JASS directly though (more on this someday), but be aware that JASS is rather unforgiving, and the scripting paradigm it follows is, well... it doesn't have an accepted modern paradigm at all. Resuming: JASS is so deficient that some dudes on the wc3 modding community even bothered to create and continiously develop until this exact day, a never ending series of modified compiling programs that allow modders to program following more intuitive paradigms and characteristics, for easier coding, and in the end improving the quality of life of trigger editor users. Note that this programs don't change the base WC3 language - JASS is invincible- , but rather just allow people to write in a determinated fictional language, most of them have some similarities to Java, but compiling unto JASS.
I will not make an historical review over this aspect, but just redirect you to the post of Pyrogasm.

Trigger Editor; PERSONAL SUGGESTION: if you already know everything else and have your fingers itching for some coding, i suggest to directly download WEX, following Pyrogasm instructions. WEX is an extension to the vanilla World Editor, made by HIVE members, that allows you write in a language called vJASS, but also has some additional features, like the JASS function list, their members, a syntax highlighter (so if you want to write in JASS you atleast have some color), and some more things. All these features, not only allows you to avoid the mental disfiguration you will surely experience while trying to code in JASS with the vanilla editor, but will also facilitate the overall learning proccess about the trigger editor. Another convenience factor, is that lots of code resources (Spells section), specially complex scripts and systems, are written in vJASS, so you will need a vJASS compiler (WEX provides this) to import and use them on your maps.

I don't know if there is a real risk on moving to vJASS, as it will be featured in the upcoming 1.30 WC3 patch as an "official" (alternative i would say) script language, in fact this exact situation makes such decision less risky.

Oh thanks everyone for the guidance. I wasn't expecting such a detailed one. Yea Right Now I'm not planning on creating anything but rather interested on learning how to create a strategy map and learning about the basic trigger editor and JASS. However at first I prefer to start with the basics. I just asked about the squad system since I never seen anything like it before. I will watch and read the resources you have given me. I will play around with base editor a bit first and use WEX to see other maps cause I don't think I can even load the big maps with the base editor as it just crashes before load? or is it something else.


As for the Blue-Print, I don't know I just thought maybe It would be easier to write the Story, winning condition, factions, units, heros, spells etc in English first and then convert to JASS cause It will take less time to write the description of a spell in English and then make the Trigger for it in case you want to change to disable the spell. In end I have to copy-paste them as tool-tip anyways. Maybe for Terrain and Object editor it would not be a good idea but possibly for spells and triggers?

About the Coding JASS, I'm not really planning on learning really complex codes but rather to learn the simple ones properly and make leak-free triggers. I've heard horror stories of editors just going with the trigger that works and not really optimizing in it and once their map was complete it resulted in constant crashes and desyncs. Also some editors getting huge object editor lag and crashes.

@Wark I'm quite interested in your Warhammer project after trying it out. I was wondering if a squad system like that could actually be possible. I will be quite glad to follow your project and do the best I can to help maybe with play-testing and feedback. I have a lot of questions about your project tho if you don't mind. Should I pm you or is there a thread that you prefer for me to ask them about you.

 

[Epic Producer]

Its best if you first study TERRAINING and TRIGGERING. Thank you.

 

[Chaosy]

Earn money so you can pay others to do everything.
Threatening to kill family also works.

You're welcome

 

[Momentum]

Earn money so you can pay others to do everything.
Threatening to kill family also works.

You're welcome

I'm actually quite glad to do that for a lot once the Remaster/Remake comes out and has a lot of improvements. It's just I don't think currently Warcraft 3 engine is the best when it comes to huge strategy maps with lots of units fighting tho can still be functional if you do the triggers leak free and the collision size right. However I still need to learn the basics of editor (I think it seems interesting anyways) and only ask for help for the most difficult parts. Also finding people who share the same passion and vision on a project can be really difficult. Still need to get my ideas together first and make sure they work on paper. Don't want the fundamental design to have inherent imbalances and abuses.

edit: I was talking about paying part, not the killing tho I'm sure that is also a valid strategy.

 

[apsyll]

About the blueprints
I personally like to stick to the old trusty pen and paper to draw many different types of the map design with symbols as key points ect also to write down key features ect.
Nowerdays I also use bretty often drawing programs online and offline.