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New Resource Sections

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by Archian, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I think the proposed changes are good and an improvement over what exists. But I do not think it's ideal. Wont re-iterate too much but substandard has too much variance in the content it contains, especially considering how misleading the name itself can be. And as pointed out adding more sections just makes it more of an annoying to go through when looking for stuff. Which is why I would advocate of putting everything except the worst in the same place and then sort by rating
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  2. Footman16

    Footman16

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    True, I hadn't thought about that.

    Yeah the first sentence I've quoted I feel like is what's caused the biggest issues. The problem was never really that apparent until Reforged models started appearing and now its made the issue very present. Although I suppose now that Reforged has its own section we'll need to see how the new classic substandard section develops.
     
  3. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Then you are forced to search by rating every time and that's bad. People should see what's new too and if you want to search quality and get substandard mixed with that, it's a waste of time when searching. Now, if you search for something specific like a blue dragon, then substandard is quite useful to appear in the search results. Of course, all this should be customizable.

    And again, ratings are subjective and that system won't work unless we would only consider mod and reviewer ratings which would still be unfair if not more than 1 mod/reviewer rates a resource and asking them to do it for every resources is asking them to review all resources which is beside the point of having more staff people to do things faster by each reviewing certain resources alone.
    Then, Substandard and all other sections should also work as badges+tags in that you would be able to eliminate/filter them from the main search or add them to it.




    Retera makes a point here:
    The Lich King Again
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  4. Misha

    Misha

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    tbh, i got used to the substandard category.. even though i don't see the need for it
     
  5. General Frank

    General Frank

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    Getting used to it does not mean it being a good thing though.
    Some people directly want their stuff in there because they themselves are very honest of their work, others don't care where their stuff is as long as people can find it while some few demand that we praise their work to high heaven even if they are not honest to themselves and just argue for the spite of it.
    I think letting people improve their work is an excellent thing. It is not however the task and objective of the staff and staff-related people to do the work for the uploader in question. Why should the staff uphold someone when they themselves are not ready to go the extra mile and try to improve their work? That always baffled me so much about some few people - and those few people make the whole section turn sour sometimes.
     
  6. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Nothing about any proposed system would prevent someone from improving. Until they literary remove the update button.
    However, you can make the argument that the system should encourage such by having a fairly high barrier to entry.

    Makes total sense if the end goal is to showcase talent.
    I think this should not be the goal, but if the hive thinks otherwise tough luck for me.


    I don't quite understand this.
    Let's say we suddenly put geo merges in the approved section, which is what I assume is one of the aspects you are talking about.
    This does not increase the quality of the product. So what is the staff supposedly 'carrying' here?
    It does not affect the author's option to alter or improve.

    And you phrase it as if the staff somehow loses time and effort by doing this. You just press approve instead of substandard, not exactly straining.
    It sounds like you think the staff is going in to update the model itself to keep it up to standards after a "lazy" model is uploaded.
     
  7. Moonman

    Moonman

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    There's is a lot of talk here without any relevant information. Name calling almost, disagreements and statements clearly made by those who don't know what issues Reforged madders face.
    The talk about people being upset or not wanting to improve might be true, I don't mind my early stuff being substandard, actually it helped me to make much better footmen and knights for the project.
    It was probably dressed at SD geomerge makers, since there are NO comments on what to improve or anything at all for almost ANY HD model there is, except the first few all were refused.
    The thing of outright removing geomerges by substandardising them was already discussed in a thread I opened.
    It might have been easy to do in the past and could result in almost spamming the site with low effort edits, but for HD ones there pretty much is no other way than to geomerge edit.

    [​IMG]

    For those who have no experience with Reforged models (which is everyone except like ~10 guys), I'd like to demonstrate the issue.

    This subject is a fully custom model made by my colleague @ShadiHD
    - Left side is the sword ingame, with corrupted normal maps (3D look, roughness etc.), appearing almost entirely flat, if it was not for the working ORM that gives it a shine at least.
    - Right side is how the sword is supposed to look like with working normal map.

    Corrupted Normals.png


    I'd like to say that is it very frustrating for artists to make the custom models knowing they will look broken. My assumption is that not many people will spend time doing so until the issue is fixed by Blizzard.
    Regardless this all being done for a project Shadi still makes them, and we have spent weeks if not more to experiment and figure out how to not only make the normals look at least flat (instead of beyond fucked like they did at start), but also made sure we know now to edit existing model's texures.
    We'd like to share the knowledge here again with everyone (normal map edits of exiting models/textures):

    Normal_Map_Settings.png


    All of this combined is why we focus mainly on making models from existing assets, and now resorting only is most ¨dire¨ cases to make a fully custom model.
    A few examples of added custom ornaments that do appear 3D because they're are edits on an existing model:

    Cloak and Shield.png

    Ornaments Normals Working.png

    [​IMG]

    Back to the issue. Undoubtedly there are even HD geomerges that clearly took not more than an hour to make: No custom textures were even edited, looks pretty much like it did before, too simple, or even bad.
    But both for Reforged and SD there are geomerges that look better than some approved custom models. Protecting custom artists from those who work with edits by hiding geomerges is silly, and simply doesn't exist for any other game modding community that I know of.
    I have yet to meet a single custom modeller who disagrees (yes I asked).

    So for me a substandard category is not a bad thing overall, even the name of it is fine, as long as good, liked and useful geomerges make it... it's really not that hard.
     
  8. Misha

    Misha

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    the major killer of creativity or will to improve a model is most likely a lack of funds..
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I think we should not confuse art with marketing. Nowadays, art has become an industry.
     
  10. Misha

    Misha

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    not sure how i should have worded myself there, if at all.
     
  11. Freddyk

    Freddyk

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    Sorry, but the resources page is a mess...

    Currently you have :
    • Repositories on top (reforged, ported)
    • State in "quick links" area (approved, pending, awaiting update, substandard, restricted)
    • Binary tags in "resource filters" area
    This is redundant, confusing and way too complicated.


    The whole page layout should be reworked from scratch to get a proper database browser.
    Databases are used everywhere, good practices are known.

    I suggest specifically :
    • Repositories should be reserved for things that are not compatible with others (to me, only Reforged should have its own repository).
    • All properties should appear in columns of the table, with filtering options on the column header :
      • State (approved, substandard... and now HQ, DC), which could be sorted by default from best to worst, to please guys who want to keep substandard away from the rest.
      • A new property could be created for "degree of customization" (custom mesh/texture/anims, geomerge, ported...).
      • Binary tags could be merged in a "keywords" column.
     
  12. Pwnica

    Pwnica

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    @Freddyk you are right.. I was thinking I did saw/read everything on Hive but now I saw the Substandard green text, and it opens a hidden world xD btw what means Substandard?
     
  13. Scias

    Scias

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    It means it doesn't meet the standard of the website.
    But since the resources are fine for most part and can be useful they're still "approved" in a way, being hosted and downloadable on the website, just hidden in it's specific section which an average user might likely miss.
     
  14. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Standard-
    below standard
    not good enough
    garbage

    You get the idea
     
  15. Moonman

    Moonman

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    Technical question at staff @Archian

    Currently icons don't seem to be displayed in the reforged section.

    Additionally in the future, may we upload thier preview in full resolution 256x256?
    Previously staff members required even HD icon's preview to be downscale to 64x64 because it was the rule.

    I would argue that it is important to view them in full res. to better see the quality or flaws.
     
  16. Murlocologist

    Murlocologist

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    Resources with ''High quality'' and ''Director's cut'' badges should have own section placed above resource pages, like it was done with reforged and ported resources. Otherwise, obtaining these badges won't make sense if you'll make them as visible as anything else.
     
  17. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    It would be easier to sort everything through sort of special tags, instead of going through separate forums each with its separate subforums (like Substandard).

    In Maps we just tag Reforged maps with the Reforged tag, still.
     
  18. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    There was a similar idea but I cannot find the post. Instead, there would be a spotlight section at the very top which selection 5 random submissions from the high quality pool.

    This is better because you do not have to search in multiple sections.

    edit:
    Your idea would work if they made it so you can search in both sections at once somehow.
     
  19. loktar

    loktar

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    IMO DC, HQ and Approved should be in the same category/section, with an option to filter. So a default search would return results from all three.
     
  20. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Preach.