New Content Discussion [SPOILER]

[LickMyEyeBall]

Or did Lisara trick you?

Edit:
Btw, to clarify: The cave the Kasrkin had brought Aedale to, was her way to her father.

Now that is some "Inception" level stuff. I reckon we can only guess what is trickery and what's not. And once again, it fits into the initial question: "What's her role in the big game".

To the grand story? A little bit. I think what Shar wanted was to show us more of an individual tragedy. And i like that. (Yes, i know a lot of nameless soldiers were involded, but everything was centered between Aedale and her father, not a massive conflict that decided the fate of hundreds of millions of people)

For an individual tragedy this looks way too unfinished. Suffice to say, she has a role in the grand design, but I have difficulty even imagining what it could be. And as I have said in my first comment, I hope we'll get a better look at her arc in the future.
Edit: Suddenly got to realize, that she is affiliated with Largoth and Lisara, so it would make sense to see her in final chapter for either of sides.

 

[Daffa]

I personally agree with @LickMyEyeBall opinion. Despite Orie tricking Aedale, it saves Aedale's last piece of humanity. I suspect Lisara will play as third party in the last mission if we kill Redfist.

 

[Boriss]

I too am surprised at Orie´s reaction at the end, when I spared Volarian. Consuming shard or not made no big difference from what I can tell.
The chapter really is very easy compared to chapter 12. Placing more healers with groups of footmen would give it a bit more difficulty there.
I admit I imagined that chapter to look a lot like the last chapter of the 1st human book. It would have been a bit more epic that way.
Let us see how this plays out in the full release.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Consuming the shard buffs the Infernal ability a lot.

Spoiler

Consuming the shard should also make it impossible to spare Redfist.

 

[Boriss]

Consuming the shard buffs the Infernal ability a lot.

Spoiler

Consuming the shard should also make it impossible to spare Redfist.

Shard only or shard+artifact? I consumed shard and not consumed artifact and was able to spare him.

 

[Ahman]

I just finished the new released chapter, but I'm confused. Some people said that Orie tried to trick Aedaele by showing her adjusted memories, and others say that Lisara corrupted her memories showing old Redfist as a bad father. Who is the one who changed the memories? The final cinematic really shows Redfist as a good father, and Orie convinced me so. Does that mean Redifst's moniker, "The Tyrant" was also made up by Lisara?
Another thing, I remember refusing the shard in the first book, but even so I choose saving the father, Lisara still made a comment that Aedeale had already consumed the demonic shard and she still burned Redfist to death. I know this sounds stupid, but can a link be made between two separate campaign files, making what choices you made in the first book matter in the second one?
All in all, I enjoyed the chapter and will be waiting for more updates

 

[Shar Dundred]

I consumed shard and not consumed artifact and was able to spare him.

Have you clicked the button?

Another thing, I remember refusing the shard in the first book, but even so I choose saving the father, Lisara still made a comment that Aedeale had already consumed the demonic shard. I know this sounds stupid, but can a link be made between two seperate campaign files, making what choices you made in the first book matter in the second one?

Did you take the other artifact?
Else it is not entirely impossible that your version did not import the choices correctly since that was
bugged for a long time and you had to run the Prologue again to fix it.

 

[Boriss]

Have you clicked the button?

I am pretty sure I did. I remember having both Aedy and Salomar in the final mission of the 1st book, with Aedy using the mark of chaos.

 

[Shar Dundred]

I meant in Chapter Thirteen, the Spare button.

 

[Boriss]

I meant in Chapter Thirteen, the Spare button.

Aedale shouted "Get out of my head Lisara" and ran away screaming. Then Orie loled me as naive girl and called priest for her dad.

 

[LISBOAH]

Alright, only now I was able to start playing


-Wow Duke Redfist is quite ruthless considering the amount of corpses burning.
-Shar Dundred once said that the orcs are resistant to demonic corruption, and yet here they are serving demons. Are they mind-controlled or are just serving hoping to be rewarded?
-The two side quests are on the place of the main quests.
-Wait, so I am confused. Was Orie telling the truth? Because she said "I can't believe she bought that".

 

[Boriss]

Alright, only now I was able to start playing

Spoiler

-Wow Duke Redfist is quite ruthless considering the amount of corpses burning.
-Shar Dundred once said that the orcs are resistant to demonic corruption, and yet here they are serving demons. Are they mind-controlled or are just serving hoping to be rewarded?
-The two side quests are on the place of the main quests.
-Wait, so I am confused. Was Orie telling the truth? Because she said "I can't believe she bought that".

Why the spoiler tags? This whole forum is tagged as spoiler. And Largoth with Lisara dont gun for demons. They are a third party in this. Or tenth.

 

[LISBOAH]

Why the spoiler tags? This whole forum is tagged as spoiler.

Fixed.

And Largoth with Lisara dont gun for demons. They are a third party in this. Or tenth.

Well yes, but still they managed to recruit orcs to follow their orders. And to trust demons, the rewards are enormous or they are stupid.

 

[Championfighter25]

Wow Duke Redfist is quite ruthless considering the amount of corpses burning.

Then again though Blen, shown as a much more honorable person, nearly destroyed an entire orc clan and killed a lot of their women and children. So this is really nothing new. Just your typical "all orcs must die" Arkain thing.

Shar Dundred once said that the orcs are resistant to demonic corruption, and yet here they are serving demons. Are they mind-controlled or are just serving hoping to be rewarded?

I guess it's the latter.

Was Orie telling the truth? Because she said "I can't believe she bought that".

I guess its an open ended thing for now. Orie may have just been teasing us though.

 

[Boriss]

Then again though Blen, shown as a much more honorable person, nearly destroyed an entire orc clan and killed a lot of their women and children. So this is really nothing new. Just your typical "all orcs must die" Arkain thing.


I guess it's the latter.


I guess its an open ended thing for now. Orie may have just been teasing us though.

Politics in Arkain are complicated. In the Empire alone there are like 4 sides now. Royals, Gardon, Renald, emperor. I would call Largoth + red orcs as a bunch of misfits that seek to profit for themselves by "serving" some high entity (the dark entity?) thats plotting against everyone.

 

[LISBOAH]

Then again though Blen, shown as a much more honorable person, nearly destroyed an entire orc clan and killed a lot of their women and children. So this is really nothing new. Just your typical "all orcs must die" Arkain thing.

Hypocrisy and cycle of revenge at its finest...

I guess its an open ended thing for now. Orie may have just been teasing us though.

I for one think Orie was just messing with Aedale. As Aedale said, Orie was the favorite, so it would stand to reason she would try to save her father.

Plus, she rejecting Aedale as a sister after she killed her father would be rather OOC if she was truly a kind person.

 

[Boriss]

Hypocrisy and cycle of revenge at its finest...



I for one think Orie was just messing with Aedale. As Aedale said, Orie was the favorite, so it would stand to reason she would try to save her father.

Plus, she rejecting Aedale as a sister after she killed her father would be rather OOC if she was truly a kind person.

Lisara said "I cant control the girl, catch her." Doesnt sound all that kind hearted anymore.
Joining Redfist would be changing one master for another. Aedale didnt join anyone. She just fled away. Probably the best option.

 

[LISBOAH]

Lisara said "I cant control the girl, catch her." Doesnt sound all that kind hearted anymore.

Then there are no right sides in this part. Both sides were trying to manipulate Aedale.

Joining Redfist would be changing one master for another. Aedale didnt join anyone. She just fled away. Probably the best option.

In terms of reward joining Lisara sounds the better option, since the humans are falling apart as a faction.

 

[Boriss]

Then there are no right sides in this part. Both sides were trying to manipulate Aedale.



In terms of reward joining Lisara sounds the better option, since the humans are falling apart as a faction.

IF you are into slavery stuff that is. And you must be into "im gonna be a slave" pretty hard to stick with them demons.

 

[LISBOAH]

IF you are into slavery stuff that is. And you must be into "im gonna be a slave" pretty hard to stick with them demons.

I think some are willing to sacrifice part of their freedom for the sake of power, knowledge and immortality.

 

[Championfighter25]

The problem with Aedale is that Lisara literally doesn't give her any freedom. Aedale thinks she is free, but that's just a delusion.
Until the ending of chapter 13 she didn't even realise what she was doing most of the time.

 

[LISBOAH]

The problem with Aedale is that Lisara literally doesn't give her any freedom. Aedale thinks she is free, but that's just a delusion.
Until the ending of chapter 13 she didn't even realise what she was doing most of the time.

If that is so, then why give her the option of taking her revenge on her father and later the chance to kill him?

I think Lisara was seeking to corrupt Aedale completely, and what better way than to destroy all links to her past life, including her father, who she was trying to impress? If Aedale kills her father, then she will be totally free and completely fall into darkness.
This somehow reminds me of Kylo Ren killing his father in The Force Awakens.

 

[Championfighter25]

If that is so, then why give her the option of taking her revenge on her father and later the chance to kill him?

You self-answered your question. In order to cut her links from the past life. Once everything that can revert her back to being human again is gone (which is her father. I really doubt with the jealosy she has towards her, Orie can revert her back on her own) Lisara will corrupt Aedale even easier with no problem. In time the demonic part in Aedale will overpower her human part and by that time it's a point of no return. Lisara will use her body as a vessel and use it to completely free herself from the prison she was put in.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

I guess we'll never know the true meaning of chapt. 13's ending... Not until the release of the final version, which is definitely not going to happen in a few months. I'll have plenty of time to prepare.

 

[Championfighter25]

I guess we'll never know the true meaning of chapt. 13's ending...

Yeah, you're right about that. It's pretty open ended.
"Who said the truth - Lisara or Orie", goes to the same category as "is Aridon dead or alive."

 

[LISBOAH]

You self-answered your question. In order to cut her links from the past life. Once everything that can revert her back to being human again is gone (which is her father. I really doubt with the jealosy she has towards her, Orie can revert her back on her own) Lisara will corrupt Aedale even easier with no problem. In time the demonic part in Aedale will overpower her human part and by that time it's a point of no return. Lisara will use her body as a vessel and use it to completely free herself from the prison she was put in.

If Aedale kills her father, that will be pretty much the point of no return. No one would trust a woman that absorbed demon artifacts, let a demon possess her and kill her own father. Aedale killing her father would be her Moral Event Horizon period.

Yeah, you're right about that. It's pretty open ended.
"Who said the truth - Lisara or Orie", goes to the same category as "is Aridon dead or alive."

Aridon cannot die!

Here is a tip that proves it:
Write on Translator: "will lord Aridon ever die" and traslate it into greek. Then translate the greek into english again.

 

[Championfighter25]

If Aedale kills her father, that will be pretty much the point of no return. No one would trust a woman that absorbed demon artifacts, let a demon possess her and kill her own father. Aedale killing her father would be her Moral Event Horizonp period.

I don't know why, but i feel like Gardon may accept her. Yes, it sounds way too insane even for his morals, but he's ready to do anything.
I'm not saying it will happen, but if Gardon is very desperate, he can consider it.

Aridon cannot die!

Here is a tip that proves it:
Write on Translator: "will lord Aridon ever die" and traslate it into greek. Then translate the greek into english again.

Yep, Aridon is alive confirmed!

 

[ArchDuke]

Spoiler

From what I understand redfist was a terrible father, but at the same time lisara is manipulating aedale into doing her bidding

basically both side are snakes

 

[King Tidus]

I'm really liking the things that Shar had done, especially how the player can choose which side he fights on, a huge applaud and thank you to Shar on this, too bad the thank you Shar topic has been closed

 

[subzz]

@Shar Dundred can we expect to have access to leadership Boni in that "blow 'em up with that canon chapter) in the final release? And if you can update first human books and introduce Boni, that would be awesome.

 

[Shar Dundred]

There are currently no plans adding any of the race mechanics to the First Books.

Leadership Boni for Twelve are problematic due to the style of the mission. It is still not certain if they will be added or not.

 

[King Tidus]

I'm loving the new boni addition, makes the chapters mch easier and adds to the replayblity value

 

[Shar Dundred]

News!

 

[subzz]

News!

man that sucks.

 

[LISBOAH]

News!

This might help

Warcraft III - Patch 1.29.1 (PTR)

 

[Shar Dundred]

This might help

Warcraft III - Patch 1.29.1 (PTR)

I don't know yet if the PTR is stable.
I will give it a try by creating a copy of the campaign, working on it with the PTR.

I will just pray that I'm not COMPLETELY wasting my time by doing that.

 

[Boriss]

I don't know yet if the PTR is stable.
I will give it a try by creating a copy of the campaign, working on it with the PTR.

I will just pray that I'm not COMPLETELY wasting my time by doing that.

I really feel for Kasrkin. Horrible amount of work and it was all for naught.
I believe, however, that the campaign files you have created will be easily reusable in the fixed version of 1.29.--

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

I really feel for Kasrkin. Horrible amount of work and it was all for naught.
I believe, however, that the campaign files you have created will be easily reusable in the fixed version of 1.29.--

Well, classc forums went bonkers by the amount of 1.29 bugs, so I believe in the end neither Kasrkin nor Shar wont be losing their work.

 

[Shar Dundred]

The 1.29.1 PTR editor seems to be slighly less buggy than the 1.29.0 patch, but it apparently causes ingame crashes.
I have used the PTR to finish the A version of Chapter Fourteen, but it keeps crashing.
I have spent the past two hours trying to fix it, but I couldn't, the game keeps crashing.
I am sure it is related to 1.29.

I will not touch WarCraft III until the full patch.
The next full patch better not cause as many issues as this one.
I will not work on a bugged game.

I would be completely DONE with the Second Human Book today if the patch had not screwed this up.
I am not exaggerating, the plan was to finish the remaining maps last week so that they would be tested and released this weekend.
Now I could not even begin working on the B version of 14 due to this buggy patch (I expect half of what I'd create with it to be bugged with the next patch) and the A version keeps crashing.
This update should have been great, now it is pissing me off. It'd have great potential if it was stable.

 

[merlockqueen]

sorry @Shar Dundred just sorry

 

[subzz]

Sorry to hear that @Shar Dundred . Anyway we love your work Take your time.

 

[Boriss]

Based on the latest demo, I have a working theory. It would seem that individual people are affected differently by Gardon´s magic.
Maybe, since Salana is naturally a loyal person, Gardon´s enchantment strengthens that trait to a point where she may seem more like his slave than a loyal follower.
Meanwhile, if used on Larine, because of her more headstrong and, lets say wild, character, she gets an adrenaline rush. Would explain the tent.

 

[LISBOAH]

Based on the latest demo, I have a working theory. It would seem that individual people are affected differently by Gardon´s magic.
Maybe, since Salana is naturally a loyal person, Gardon´s enchantment strengthens that trait to a point where she may seem more like his slave than a loyal follower.
Meanwhile, if used on Larine, because of her more headstrong and, lets say wild, character, she gets an adrenaline rush. Would explain the tent.

This is a plausible theory...

However, I am not sure if Salana is that loyal. Is she truly loyal to her people? Yes. But I don't think she was like the rest of the council that were blindly loyal to the Queen. I think she had doubts about her queen's plan to leave the continet. The greatest proof is that she actually agreed to meet with Gardon, while any other member of the council would either reject to meet with him or go with assassins.

Larine is the opposite. While Salana had her own opinions, she stayed loyal to her nation. Larine on the other hand seems to put more importance on what she sees as right, regardless if the rest agrees or not, and will not abide to orders and laws if these things are seen by her perspective as wrong.

 

[Boriss]

This is a plausible theory...

However, I am not sure if Salana is that loyal. Is she truly loyal to her people? Yes. But I don't think she was like the rest of the council that were blindly loyal to the Queen. I think she had doubts about her queen's plan to leave the continet. The greatest proof is that she actually agreed to meet with Gardon, while any other member of the council would either reject to meet with him or go with assassins.

Salana is imho extremely loyal to her people rather than her queen. Thus Gardon playing that string of "we shall save this continent together, protect your homeworld and your people" would earn more positive response from Salana than Renova´s "Oh, I got ensorcelled and now I´m emperor´s little bed-friend" stuff.

Larine is the opposite. While Salana had her own opinions, she stayed loyal to her nation. Larine on the other hand seems to put more importance on what she sees as right, regardless if the rest agrees or not, and will not abide to orders and laws if these things are seen by her perspective as wrong.

Larine is a wild card. We don´t know Gardon´s response tho. Vexing

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

Based on the latest demo, I have a working theory. It would seem that individual people are affected differently by Gardon´s magic.
Maybe, since Salana is naturally a loyal person, Gardon´s enchantment strengthens that trait to a point where she may seem more like his slave than a loyal follower.
Meanwhile, if used on Larine, because of her more headstrong and, lets say wild, character, she gets an adrenaline rush. Would explain the tent.

You know when I first saw that scene I was like "oh, well, whatever, funny, Boris would like it". But the next mission I had the chance to read her ring's description... And thats what actually made me sad. Shar butchering hundreds of folks every day? Nay, not cruel enough. Enslaving people with amulets? Bah, been used to it. And then you understand, when a person is not only brainwashed, but also...Well, whatever they did in that tent. And that ring's story shows me the true meaning of cruelty. Which on the other hand is a great way to unfold characters and write a story. Id say cruelty level in that episode is on par with Aedale's chapter.

 

[Boriss]

You know when I first saw that scene I was like "oh, well, whatever, funny, Boris would like it". But the next mission I had the chance to read her ring's description... And thats what actually made me sad. Shar butchering hundreds of folks every day? Nay, not cruel enough. Enslaving people with amulets? Bah, been used to it. And then you understand, when a person is not only brainwashed, but also...Well, whatever they did in that tent. And that ring's story shows me the true meaning of cruelty. Which on the other hand is a great way to unfold characters and write a story. Id say cruelty level in that episode is on par with Aedale's chapter.

Remind me of what it said. Dont recall it. Anyway, it may seem that im all about bang bang, but that is actually not the case.
What intrigues me most on this story is the way relationship between characters develops in this campaign. It is just coupled with my innate sexist humour. Splits and reunions. Lies and revelations. Mourns and revelations. Mourns and revels. Alliances and betrayals. Thats the juice I love on a story. And Shar´s skills of twisting and weaving a story are on master level.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Remind me of what it said. Dont recall it.

Before:

This ring used to be Larine's engagement ring, given to her by her lover. Only a few weeks prior to Larine's departure from the Elven Kingdom, her lover died under mysterious circumstances. When Larine left, it was one of the few things she had taken with her.

After:

This ring used to be Larine's engagement ring, given to her by her lover. Only a few weeks prior to Larine's departure from the Elven Kingdom, her lover died under mysterious circumstances. When Larine left, it was one of the few things she had taken with her. Now it has been enhanced by Gardon to suit royalty.

 

[LISBOAH]

Before:
After:

I am starting to think that her leaving the Elven Kingdom wasn't entirely due to her beliefs about human-elven relationships. I am sensing that her lover was killed due to political reasons.

Just to be sure, Shar, was her lover a human or an elf?

 

[Shar Dundred]

An elf.

 

[LISBOAH]

An elf.

Ok. Theory time!

Larine's lover was the one that influenced her in terms of improving the relationships between the Kingdoms and the Elves. However, the Elven Council and Queen didn't approve of this and decided to eliminate him on "mysterious circustances".

It is no coincidence that her lover died shortly before her being exiled. There are no coincidences in these matters.