Multiplayer

[Av3n]

But Blizzard takes time plannig everything so carefully that all their games are awesome

(Isn't this oing off topic...)

-Av3n

 

[thisruoy]

So.... Multiplayer.....

 

[Pyritie]

Blizzard does hire people, you know.

No of course not; they inbreed.

And Craka, where'd you hear that from that they were interested?

 

[Jacek]

bullshit, Blizzard never negotiates with random people

 

[Craka_J]

A friend of mine who tried to get a job with Blizzard. He asked them about it and that's what they said.
~Craka_J

 

[Jacek]

then tell him to ask them about WoW models

 

[Pyritie]

And ask them if they can ban dota from SC2.

 

[Craka_J]

And ask them if they can ban dota from SC2.

God would that ruin BNet on that game or what?!

Can't ask them anything since the inverview failed and he met with them in person so... doubt they'll consider allowing him to be interviewed again.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

Of course not. That would make bnet all the better.

But lets not let this turn into yet another dota flammage.

 

[Craka_J]

Yeah. Back on topic.

As a brief answer, internet play/multiplayer mode will not be introduced to Wc3:WoW for a while. WarSoc is "not even close to completion" which pretty much sums up why Wc3:WoW won't be an MMORPG... yet.

More news on this will come up later.
~Craka_J

 

[thisruoy]

Warsoc, is not complete zzzzz
In the mean time, wil we be able to play on bnet? with 12 others

 

[Pyritie]

You'd presumabely have to use save/load codes, but those would get a bit out of hand. People could trade them and such... And the only real multiplayer part you'd need is if you're doing instances or BGs.

 

[Craka_J]

Wc3:WoW on BNet = Against the Blizzard policy and can sue us for everything we own.

So Wc3:WoW is still 100% single-player, save for the A.I. bots.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

How could they sue you for putting it on bnet?

Oh wait... it's more than 4mb...

 

[Craka_J]

Look at their website in the illegal rights section or whatever it's called. It specificly says that we cannot put a thing such as campaigns over BNet.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

Damn.

So then what are you going to do?

 

[Craka_J]

WarSoc will allow the player to create servers that run on WarSoc, also with the acception of the server being a campaign. Which means Wc3:WoW (In Campaign format) will be hostable on WarSoc. On servers completely different from Battle Net. And all Blizzard's site says is they don't like large mods like ours being hosted on their servers or BNet. But WarSoc works around that and makes its own server(s) and is off of BNet.
~Craka_J

 

[Eleandor]

Does Blizzard Entertainment allow or support other Battle.net like or emulation servers? Can I host one of these rogue servers?

No. Except as set forth in the next paragraph, Blizzard Entertainment does not support or condone network play of its games anywhere but Battle.net. Specifically, you may not host or provide matchmaking services for any of our games or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment in the network feature of its games, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the game(s), use of a utility program or any other techniques now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose including, but not limited to network play over the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or non-commercial gaming networks or as part of content aggregation networks without the prior written consent of Blizzard Entertainment.

Specifically, you may not host or provide matchmaking services for any of our games or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment in the network feature of its games, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the game(s)...

I still have my doubts about this being legal, because while you might not be "adding" a component to the game, you're still emulating the network feature of warcraft 3...


Another quote:

(b) the Program has a multi-player capability. This multi-player capability allows users to utilize the Program over the Internet exclusively through Blizzard Entertainment's on-line game network Battle.net or other hosting services duly authorized by Blizzard Entertainment. Use of the Program over Battle.net or other hosting services duly authorized by Blizzard Entertainment is subject to your acceptance of Battle.net's Terms of Use Agreement. Blizzard Entertainment reserves the right to update, modify or change the Battle.net Terms of Use Agreement at any time.

.
The way I understand this is that as soon as you go multiplayer - whether it be on bnet or LAN - you're bound to the battle.net rules. Since it's not allowed to put campaigns on Bnet, I think it's not allowed to host campaigns anyway.

 

[Craka_J]

Well they'll have to be more specific in order for the rules to apply in every way. Otherwise we will take advantage of these loop-holes.
~Craka_J

 

[thisruoy]

But there are games named " world of warcraft'
On bnet and stuff

 

[Craka_J]

They're also poor quality, crappy maps, and usually look/seem nothing like WoW.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

Yes, most of them are just like wc3 (creeps everywhere, very boring) with WoW names attached everywhere. Very boring.

 

[robot-dude]

yeah, and I think if you host it on "WarSoc" wouldent we need "WarSoc" then too click on the "Wc3: WoW" button to access why not just post a Tut how to mod the battle.net option so u can enter a "IP Address" so it saves people going through the "WarSoc" Process.

 

[Craka_J]

Yeah pretty much. The I.P. addresses to the servers would be posted on the website on a special page which we'd make called the "Servers" page which would be like WoW's page (Displays all currently functioning official servers) and we will also release a tutorial or two of how to play WarSoc. Yes, WarSoc will be needed by people who host and play Wc3:WoW online. Not sure if it will be needed for single-player in the future though. Most likely it will be.
~Craka_J

 

[Bookskill]

Well Just To Say Im looking Forward to play the open beta
why because this looks awesome!! i just wanted to show support becuz i havent been on forever.... lol
so if it will be multi-player how many servers would u need to get cause i might be able to host one for you guys but i might not so w/e just thinking if i could help

 

[Craka_J]

Thanks for your support!
At first, we'll host only one. Then move on by making more and more, probably by 2's.
~Craka_J

 

[Warhoof]

Mind Blowing. Incredible. Beyond what I percieved as the realms of possibility as far as Warcraft 3 Modding goes. I fully support this project if not with my lacking mapping ability, but with my two thumbs up, over-obessive nature and lack of interest in school homework.

I used to play WoW; level 70 tier 6 druid, so if you need any help with any of the lore, balance or whatever please let me know.

I'm proud my first post is here in this thread, wishing you guys the best of luck in this revalation in mapping, programming and dedication.

 

[Craka_J]

Thanks for your kind words and support! The Wc3:WoW Team finds all of our fan's support to be very encouraging and spirit-lifting. Thank you!

I'm afraid an Open Beta won't be out as soon as I'd like. I don't even think we'll be able to release something on Christmas! But I might release a screenshot or spoiler then if I cannot release the actual beta.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

But we've already seen screenshots...

 

[Craka_J]

Not all that we can muster out of the project though!
Though I agree with you that screenshots certainly isn't enough. On either Christmas or Christmas Eve, I plan on releasing some sort of content. Not an Open Beta, but possibly a Closed Beta and some public contents like screenshots and wallpapers.
~Craka_J

 

[Av3n]

wallpapers and screenies of completed areas first then the closed beta

-Av3n

 

[thisruoy]

Theres a map called Wow arena, it has rage meter, wow skills and stuff
Its very fun too and well made, why dont they get sued lol
http://epicwar.com/maps/30192/

 

[Pyritie]

Well because they triggered that themselves, of course.

 

[Craka_J]

You can't sue someone for something that simple, unless of course if it were stolen from the actual product and/or sold for a profit.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

Well you're not going to be making any profit out of this, right?

So then why would it be illegal?

 

[Craka_J]

Exactly my point!
~Craka_J

 

[Jacek]

wow private servers don't make any profit out of this, why are they illegal?

 

[Eleandor]

I've already mentioned that I'm relativelly sure that Warsoc is illegal according to the Bnet rules & end-user license agreement. Since the multiplayer part will use Warsoc ... wc3:WoW might be considered illegal.

I do hope it won't be though...

 

[Saitek009]

Read this
http://warsoc.fulgrim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2
And this
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37335
for a better understanding of the legality questions surrounding "Reinventing the Craft"

 

[thisruoy]

BTW private servers do make money, the big ones such as wowgasm

 

[Eleandor]

Read this
http://warsoc.fulgrim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2
And this
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37335
for a better understanding of the legality questions surrounding "Reinventing the Craft"

I did. I'm still not convinced. Especially because of this:

"Does Blizzard Entertainment® allow or support other Battle.net® like or emulation servers? Can I host one of these rogue servers?
No. Except as set forth in the next paragraph, Blizzard Entertainment® does not support or condone network play of its games anywhere but Battle.net®. Specifically, you may not host or provide matchmaking services for any of our games or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment® in the network feature of its games, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the game(s), use of a utility program or any other techniques now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose including, but not limited to network play over the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or non-commercial gaming networks or as part of content aggregation networks without the prior written consent of Blizzard Entertainment®."

I'm not emulating battle.net either, i'm emulating multiplayer. This is just a set of natives that allow nettraffic from the map. Could be used for mirc communication too, doesn't have anything to do with Battle.net.

Mindworx' reply is not giving an answer to the things mentioned in the FAQ.

"Blizzard Entertainment® does not support or condone network play of its games anywhere but Battle.net®. Specifically, you may not host or provide matchmaking services for any of our games or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment® in the network feature of its games".
I understand this in the following way: Blizzard's RTS games are only allowed to be played in multiplayer over Bnet. Whether Mindworx doesn't use anything of Bnet or not is completely out of the question, because the final product will be a way to play warcraft 3 online (including campaigns, which MOST certainly violates the Bnet rules) without Bnet.

Somewhere else in the Bnet agreement (we all signed when installing wc3) it's stated that any multiplayersession, whether it be on Bnet or LAN, has to obey to the Bnet rules. One of these rules state that playing campaigns online is prohibited.

I almost feel like I'm repeating myself.

Perhaps it'd be better to move these last posts to the RTC forum since they no longer have much to do with WoW? just suggesting...

 

[Craka_J]

Hmm... they added to that FAQ rule since I last checked. Oh well. We'll still continue the production of Wc3:WoW, legally or illegally!
~Craka_J

 

[Saitek009]

I did. I'm still not convinced. Especially because of this:



Mindworx' reply is not giving an answer to the things mentioned in the FAQ.

"Blizzard Entertainment® does not support or condone network play of its games anywhere but Battle.net®. Specifically, you may not host or provide matchmaking services for any of our games or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard Entertainment® in the network feature of its games".
I understand this in the following way: Blizzard's RTS games are only allowed to be played in multiplayer over Bnet. Whether Mindworx doesn't use anything of Bnet or not is completely out of the question, because the final product will be a way to play warcraft 3 online (including campaigns, which MOST certainly violates the Bnet rules) without Bnet.

Somewhere else in the Bnet agreement (we all signed when installing wc3) it's stated that any multiplayersession, whether it be on Bnet or LAN, has to obey to the Bnet rules. One of these rules state that playing campaigns online is prohibited.

I almost feel like I'm repeating myself.

Perhaps it'd be better to move these last posts to the RTC forum since they no longer have much to do with WoW? just suggesting...

Just so you know I haven't taken a side on this discussion.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything that anyone has said.
I simply posted the links so that people could get an idea of what MindWorX thinks of the legality issues surrounding RtC.

 

[Eleandor]

Hmm... they added to that FAQ rule since I last checked. Oh well. We'll still continue the production of Wc3:WoW, legally or illegally!
~Craka_J

erm...

I actually quoted you quoting the Blizzard FAQ in a thread on the official RTC fora...

Personally, for the sake of RTC and wc3:WoW, I hope Blizzard will ignore this or perhaps encourage it as long as you don't break any more serious rules (such as asking a fee).

 

[Craka_J]

We will never ask for you to pay, nor will we ever require it. We will however accept donations later on once I get a credit card which is in one more year. The donation money won't go to my pocket, don't worry. All donation cash will go towards the dedicated servers if we need to make one.
~Craka_J

 

[Eleandor]

I know that already. I was just saying that perhaps, considering the fact you won't ask a fee, Blizzard will allow this, making an exception to the rules....

 

[Craka_J]

We actually believe that this will make people who have not yet played WoW, want to buy and play WoW! I mean... if we can make it as much like WoW in Wc3 now, and you love it, imagine actually playing it? So in a way, we're helping Blizzard gain a few hundred new people into WoW.

I quit WoW like four months ago. But I hear they've finally began to crack down on PvP and improve it a lot more. But I won't continue to play WoW until the new expansion, though I'll probably wait two months after the release of that so they fix all of the bugs and so on.
~Craka_J

 

[Pyritie]

The pvp was only fun for the horde... ._.

 

[Craka_J]

Well I am a Horde player, and the first most playable races will be Horde, though along the way, we'll make Humans and Night Elves playable so do not worry, Alliance will get some action as well. But Horde was the original plan three years ago and still is, though I wish to bring the Alliance and Lordaeron into this game once the majority of Kalimdor and the Horde is completed.

Recently, the biggest problems we're trying to find solutions to are spell implementations to the actual campaign file. The problem exactly, is that vJASS is giving us trouble with importing these triggered spells into the game. If you figure out a way to make vJASS made spells or vJASS triggers in general work with Campaigns (Maps) properly, please inform us of how to do it immediately, and supporting your theory with a campaign that uses vJASS in some areas will be very much appreciated and respectable for sure!
~Craka_J

 

[Craka_J]

This set of doodads and stuff is acceptable to use. Although it is being used in Wc3:WoW, it was distributed publicly with permission by me and so I will allow this to be used in terrains.
~Craka_J