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Model section and Reforged

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by The_Silent, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    Since custom models for classic- and reforged Warcraft 3 vary so much in "quality", it is probably good to explore some different options for what should happen with the model section when we reach that point.

    Also, the dreaded "wow export" discussion.

    Should we have sections for each type, or should models meant for reforged have the "reforged" tag? Like the tag the reforged discussions have? Maybe accompanied with a "classic", and a "both" tag? Something like that?

    Also, reforged model quality is probably on par with, or beyond, wow "quality". Should wow exports be allowed (obviously with <author> set to "Blizzard")
     
  2. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    I feel like pure WoW exports should still be prohibited. Not necessarily because they won't fit (and they won't), but because they are very lazy.

    Nothing prevents users from exporting a WoW model and modifying it, essentially making their own artistic creation out of it. I always felt that the Hive modelling section was so good because models were always reviewed with artistic contribution in mind. And that shouldn't change imho.

    Modelling artists should learn about creating models with normal and specular maps and adapt to the new quality level. It's not rocket science. And if anything fails, people can still use geomerging to make their own stuff, even if they completely lack the skills to build a model from scratch.
     
  3. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    How about a separate section, forum, or other database interface?
     
  4. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    We don't have time to catch up to all these years that passed. I suggest a Blizzard rip models/skins at least until enough original ones start to be created and uploaded which would be some sort of Substandard.
     
  5. pyf

    pyf

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    As a consequence of WC3:R, will 'Director's cut' come back for 3D models?
     
  6. LordDz

    LordDz

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    A wow section with models that are trimmed down of unused animations and given proper stand, stand ready, death, death decay animations would be nice.
     
  7. Archian

    Archian

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    We plan on making some changes/upgrades to the resource section, including a seperate section for Warcraft 3: Reforged models. We also want to improve the search function and reintroduce the "Director's Cut" rating.
    We definitely don't want rule that option out. Seeing as WoW models are of higher quality and fits better in Reforged than in Classic. WoW models could quickly fill the need for imported resources in Reforged. We have already gotten confirmation from Blizzard that WoW exports are allowed within the World Editor.

    However, if we are to go down this path the WoW model must be properly optimized and certain criteria must be met. A standard procedure should be made with a guide and everything to avoid having TONS of lacking WoW models i.e. if we do this, do it properly.

    WoW models cannot get a Director's Cut rating, only original work are eligible for that rating. Still people who go through the trouble of exporting and optimizing WoW models should be awarded for their time. So reputation points can be given to a person who has properly exported and optimized a WoW model.

    And of course, WoW models would get a seperate section as well.

    @Ralle
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  8. Triceron

    Triceron

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    What about HOTS, D3 or SC2 assets?

    I know many of these are already usable in SC2, just wondering if they would be usable in WC3R. This would open up a huge amount of assets, potentially even spell effects if they carry over. Most of the spells in HOTS could work straight up in WC3R.
     
  9. Ralle

    Ralle

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    I think we should have a separate section for WC3R because a standard model is crap in R and an R model is crap in standard. For standard you want a low poly model, a high poly model is a waste. For R you want a high poly model and a standard poly model looks like tetris.
     
  10. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    What if I want to upload high-res And classic-res versions of the same model?

    @Ralle @Archian
     
  11. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Yes. That is a good point. We should have a checkbox or way to identify what is reforged and what is not and keep a single section.

    Am I right to understand that if you already made the reforged version it should be simple to down-poly it? Otherwise it shouldn't be too much of an issue having separate sections I guess.
     
  12. Mister_Haudrauf

    Mister_Haudrauf

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    Keep it separate. Just link the other model in the description or link it via assets. That way we can keep the Classic section clean of reforged (highpoly) models and the reforged section clean of classic (lowpoly) models.

    It's the same way that the Nexus forum does with Skyrim (Oldrim) and Skyrim SE. They are basically the same game, but with slight differences.
     
  13. Himperion

    Himperion

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    To work this needs a very anal Mod to deal with that stuff.

    On the top of my head these are the main flaws of WoW models ripped everywhere.

    Bad deletion of animations, as only they remove the name, instead of frames.
    Making the first and last frame on every animation the same.
    Optimization of frames per animation, WC3 still need far less frames than a WoW model.
    Removal of unused attachments points.
    Removal of attachment bones for sets of armors.
    Removal of empty bones.
    Adding a hitbox.
    Adding proper extends.
    Adding Blood effects, and Sound effects.
    Adding Team glow.
    Naming the bones of the freaking skeleton.

    All of this is for functionality only. You can reduce a 3M model to 200Kb with that list.
     
  14. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    StarCraft II has used WC3 models with little problem. I think WC3R will be in a similar situation. Hence I do not think any change is needed except possibly for future models.
     
  15. Archian

    Archian

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    Thats why a tutorial or guide is needed on how to export wow models properly. Anyone qualified or willing to write such a detailed tutorial?
     
  16. SadisticLeprechaun

    SadisticLeprechaun

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    I certainly hope WoW models are not prohibited especially for a while. There will be a website that will host them, it should be here instead of a 2nd rate competitor site that I sadly would have to go to looking for more models, as would many others . . don't count WoW models out because people are lazy. Some people have a busy life and can't work on models all day, so lets get some cheap medium-quality models from WoW in there for game launch. Higher quality models that have dozens of man hours on animations will push them out anyhow and take their place.
     
  17. Rui

    Rui

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    I'm surprised the «are WoW exports allowed?» discussion has resurfaced. In 2011, I wrote a batch of rules that allowed WoW (or any other Blizzard game) ports in the SC2 section, provided they were adjusted to fit the destination environment. It was written so, because: 1) we reached the conclusion Blizzard wouldn't copyright sue itself, and 2) Blizzard were themselves salvaging parts of artistic resources between their games. This principle is easily deducible to a hypothetical Reforged model section. Hence why I'm puzzled about the deep philosophizing going on in this thread. Has there been a retrogress in the rules since that day?

    EDIT: Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm totally for a WoW export section whose contents have been modified to fit into WC3:R.
     
  18. Tauer

    Tauer

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    I definitely think the model sections should be kept separate. Anything else would be silly in my opinion.

    I don't see why WoW exports shouldn't be allowed, provided they've had some proper editing done to them. No different from geomerging WC3 models to be honest. If some WoW models can provide map makers with even more options for their maps, I'm all for that.
     
  19. Archian

    Archian

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    We are gonna have a WoW exports section.

    I have also asked Blizzard about exports from Heroes of the Storm.
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Don't forget StarCraft II, please!
    Thanks for doing this @Archian.