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Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

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Oh! Also, no one is allied from the start, except Lich King and Undead Nerubians

Actuallly, I was thinking of dividing Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor into 3 seconds: Upper, Middle, and Lower. That is kind of where I have been goin since the start of the map. What do you think of that?
 
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I'm saying that u shud ad theramore, and those are 2 SEPERATE(wna be clear on that) events u can have, thrall lvl 10 gets stonemaul, varian lvl 10 gets theramore.
 
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Oooh, ooh, okay, gotcha! gotcha.
I'll have to iron out some details with that as well, but I will definitely implement that somewhow. I like it!

I am liking roflpotamus' idea more and more as i think about it.....the idea of have 3-4 factions available per area
 
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Don't forget the lore tho, don't add in a faction just for the sake of having a faction present. Like in Outland unless u add illidari u can only have 1 faction, and even then it's 2 at max. Northrend is another example, there shud rlly only be one faction: scourge. I'm guessing only reason nerubians even a faction is so that yogg-saron cud be implimented... IDEA!

I doubt ull do this now but perhaps later on merge the nerubian faction wit scourge giving us the "classic" scourge. In the nerubian players place u cud create an iron empire player(yogg-saron and loken as heros)
 
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Don't forget the lore tho, don't add in a faction just for the sake of having a faction present. Like in Outland unless u add illidari u can only have 1 faction, and even then it's 2 at max. Northrend is another example, there shud rlly only be one faction: scourge. I'm guessing only reason nerubians even a faction is so that yogg-saron cud be implimented... IDEA!

I doubt ull do this now but perhaps later on merge the nerubian faction wit scourge giving us the "classic" scourge. In the nerubian players place u cud create an iron empire player(yogg-saron and loken as heros)

You psycho you! All of my suggestions are 100% lore accurate and attempt to take into account the layout of the terrain so that it is used to maximum efficiency. The only problem with this is in Feralas and Desolace. Imo, replace the NE presence there with Theramore and Silithid for the purpose of balance.
 
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Ya I'm just saying if u make each area with a set amount of factions, chances are u don't have lore to support that many(like we all no Outland can possibly have 2 MAX wheras north EK cud have well over 5 if needed).
 
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Ya I'm just saying if u make each area with a set amount of factions, chances are u don't have lore to support that many(like we all no Outland can possibly have 2 MAX wheras north EK cud have well over 5 if needed).

Huh? Look at my suggestions. Short of the Gurubashi, all major players are represented.

And the Amani are far more important than the Gurubashi in my book seeing how the Amani were a major player in the Second War whereas the Gurubashi have kind of done nothing for the past several thousand years.
 
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Yeah, everyone is against me with the Amani vs Gurubashi discussion. Although I am going to include the Gurubashi no matter what....but I think the Amani may soon be included as well. :)
Some more major game changes seem to be on the horizon. I suppose I will give a preview:

Due to the poplularity of the optional race option, and the immense number of races to choose from, several people and I have come up with this basic breakdown:

Each continent will be broken up into sections that have races that can be chosen by players. A --- denotes a race not discussed or chosen yet. This is the breakdown:
Northern Kalimdor (2 players): Night Elves, Orcs, or Satyrs
Southern Kaldimdor (2 players): Tauren, C'thun/Silithid, or Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons
Northern EK (2 players): Silver Hand, Forsaken, ---
Southern EK (2 players): Deathwing/Twilight Dragons, Ironforge, Gurubashi Empire, Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves or Stormwind
Outland (2 players): Burning Legion or Illidari
Northrend (2 players): Scourge, Undead Nerubians (may instead just be regular Nerubians), ---

This is still in for some tweaking, but this is what the basic factional breakdown is looking like. It will ensure that no 2 games are the same! :D (especially when the Masteries are involved)
 
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Make northrend scourge, iron empire/nerubians, drakkari trolls. To north EK add Amani trolls and Gilneas(human not worgen, altho they cud have an elite worgen unit or event/mastery concerning them). Maybe even silvermoon elves.
 
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Oooh, right! That is who I thuoght of last night but couldn't remember today (Gilneas)
Although, the 3rd race you said Drakkari Trolls. I was wondering if maybe instead we should go with a mixed Northrend race? (Taunka + Tuskarr). If not then Drakkari would be great, but I am not sure how good of a position they are.
I'm playing devil's advocate here with myself and you guys to be sure we observe all angles.

oh wait...and i forgot Titans! in Southern Kalimdor......so it is looking like this right now:

Northern Kalimdor (2 Players): Night Elves, Satyrs, or Orcs
Southern Kalimdor (2 Players): Tauren, Titans, C'thun/Silithid, or Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons
Northern EK (2 Players): Silver Hand, Forsaken, Gilneas, or Amani Empire (maybe Blood Elves!)
Southern EK (2 Players): Ironforge, Deathwing/Twilight Dragons, Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves, Stormwind, or Gurubashi Empire
Outland (2 Players): Burning Legion and Illidari (i think more need to be added here)
Northrend (2 Players): Scourge, Iron Dwarves/Nerubians, Drakkari Trolls
 
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Taunka tuskar are more or less just small tribes in northrend, go wit drakkari. Also add the Kvaldir as a go anywhere race, naga vs kvaldir gogogogogogo!!!!

Also it's just iron, not iron dwarves(there's iron dwarves, vykrul, and gnomes)
 
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Oh yeah, gotcha. Okay, I see why you say Iron Empire then. Makes sense.
And yeah true. Okay, so Drakkari will be a choice.
But if you look, the decision has been made to remove Naga (as a race). they will be featured with the Illidari
 
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Hey fish, managed to get like a minute away from homework(not much time tho), was wondering on wat u decided on for silverhand masteries.
 
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Basically I will be replacing the 'Other Side of the Light' Mastery with a Scarlet Crusade mastery, while the old Mastery will be turned into an event of some sort
 
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You should change the mastery that allies silverhand to darion for this main reason: the description states that the argent dawn has allied the knights of the ebon blade, yet this isnt the argent dawn, its the silver hand.

I suggest changing this mastery to an argent dawn mastery(becoming the argent dawn and such), then once this mastery is take do this: if archeus is already creeped they gain darion and the knights of the ebon blade, if its not already creeped then they gain darion and the knights once it is creeped.

To symbolize that the place has been creeped u shud have a major creep there(the big abomination that was there). This way people will know even if they creeped everything else "make sure u killed this creep because this is what sets off the trigger"
 
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I have something similar implemented apready. In order to research LV (Light's Vengeance), you have to have Tirion Fording as a hero. This is because he was the catalyst for the change from Silver Hand to Argent Dawn. Yet, in order to get Tirion Fordring, you must defeat the Acherus (creep it out). After that, Tirion spawns, and you are able to research LV
 
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But tirion has no connection with the archeus itself other then the fact hes allied with darion, theres no reason to get him from the archeus. Also even tho tirion created the argent dawn the player is still the silverhand. There needs to be a transition from silverhand to argent dawn in some method. Obtaining tirion COULD be seen as becoming the argent dawn but there are 2 problems with that:

1) tirion was also a member of the silverhand so the transition wouldnt be very clear(yes he was exiled but he was still a member).

2) even if tirion symbolized becoming the argent dawn the scarlet crusade mastery remains, basicly this is how it wud look:

silverhand-->argent dawn-->scarlet crusade
 
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well, it would go more like this

Silver Hand -> Argent Dawn - > Scarlet Crusade, Draenei/Naaru affiliation, or Argent Crusade

And the point is that after conquering Acherus, Tirion becomes an important figure. That is why he spawns for the Silver Hand
 
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Yeah, everyone is against me with the Amani vs Gurubashi discussion. Although I am going to include the Gurubashi no matter what....but I think the Amani may soon be included as well. :)
Some more major game changes seem to be on the horizon. I suppose I will give a preview:

Due to the poplularity of the optional race option, and the immense number of races to choose from, several people and I have come up with this basic breakdown:

Each continent will be broken up into sections that have races that can be chosen by players. A --- denotes a race not discussed or chosen yet. This is the breakdown:
Northern Kalimdor (2 players): Night Elves, Orcs, or Satyrs
Southern Kaldimdor (2 players): Tauren, C'thun/Silithid, or Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons
Northern EK (2 players): Silver Hand, Forsaken, ---
Southern EK (2 players): Deathwing/Twilight Dragons, Ironforge, Gurubashi Empire, Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves or Stormwind
Outland (2 players): Burning Legion or Illidari
Northrend (2 players): Scourge, Undead Nerubians (may instead just be regular Nerubians), ---

This is still in for some tweaking, but this is what the basic factional breakdown is looking like. It will ensure that no 2 games are the same! :D (especially when the Masteries are involved)

In my opinion (hey again) there should be a max of three empires within each zone, this is for balance purposes and for simplicity's sake (some of the factions can be molded into one another without any lorelol).

North Kalim: Spot on
South Kalim: Tauren, Silithid, Theramore ((the Infinites should be an event for the Deathwing/Ragnaros and Legion factions. There is lore to support the Legion bit and lore can be twisted for the Deathwing/Rag connection)).
Northern EK: Silver Hand, Forsaken, Amani Trolls
Southern EK: Deathwing/Ragnaros (they are allies in Cataclysm), IF, SW
Northrend: Scourge, Nerubians, Titanic Watchers
Outland: Legion, Illidari (Fel Orcs + Naga), Illidari (BE + Draeni)

I also feel that if any players ally others within their starting zone they should be somewhat penalized. This is to discourage such a practice that would obviously result in people allying to conquer the creep empire in their zone and then sweeping across other zones. Ultimately, warfare would be reduced to inter-continental lines and the intra-continental warfare would be largely nonexistent. This means that instead of fighting over southern EK and then expanding north and fighting the victor of northern EK between the two zones, the southern EK fight does not happen, nor does the northern EK fight, and both allied parties march to each other, therefore reducing warfare to cross-continental and skipping the intra-continental step.
 
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so silver can we pu the 4th masteries for silverhand?when the scarlet crusadar fall,balanar killed most of the scarlet crusadar member and rise as the risen
 
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@Roflpotamus & Deolrin: I agree that there should be an equal amount of factions per zone. Yet, there are some that I just do not wish to get rid of. For example, I don't want to get rid of Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons as a faction. Also, I do not want to get rid of Ragnaros/Deathwing. This game takes place after TFT campaign, so at that point, it is uncertain whether Ragnaros/Deathwing were going to ally or not. In addition, the Titanic Watchers are not in a position to conquer Azeroth. The titans themselves are in a better position to do this (considering the Titanic Watchers in Northrend are supposed to be watching over Yogg-Sargon). Also, I would very much like to implement Gilneas. I think it would be a faction many players would enjoy. As a result, I am thinking of a factional breakdown such as this:

Northern Kali (2 players): Night Elves, Orcs, or Satyrs
Southern Kali (2 players): Silithid, Infinite Dragons, Tauren, or Titans
Northern EK (2 players): Gilneas, Forsaken, Silver Hand, or Amani Empire
Southern EK (2 players): Deathwing, Ragnaros, Stormwind, Gurubashi Empire, or Ironforge
Outland (1 player): Burning Legion, Illidari (Fel Orcs, Naga, Draenei) or Illidari (Blood Elves)
Northrend (2 players): Scourge, Iron Empire/Nerubians, or Drakkari Empire
Oceans (1 player): Naga or Kvaldir

This would result in a factional breakdown of: 3, 4, 4, 5, 3, 3, 2.
As said before, for balancing purposes, each zone should have near equal number of factions to choose from. As a result, I think one or two more factions should be added to Northern Kali. I cannot think of any though. Any ideas anyone?

@ImperialShadow: I am confused at what you are asking
 
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Yes, Naga are in the Maelstrom. I just use the term 'Oceans' to describe that the Naga and Kvaldir come from that area.

I'd rather add more because by limiting the races to three, quite a few factions are missing that I would really like to add. In addition, having more than 3 factions per zone increases the chance that no two games are the same. Combined with the Masteries and events, this should be ensured

EDIT: By the way, I am thinking of some very cool stuff for Gilneas!! :D
 
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But if u have silverhand to argent crusade ur missing the argent dawn in the middle. Here's how I think u shud do it:

mastery 1: become scarlet crusade
mastery 2: become empowerd by the light
mastery 3: become the argent dawn

if mastery 3 is taken and archeus is creeped/gets creeped u become the argent crusade.

It's the most lore accurate I can think of. Yes silverhand to scarlet to argent is more accurate but doing it like that in game makes 0 sense.
 
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They don't. They go from Silver Hand to Argent Dawn. and then from there, they can research the Scarlet Crusade Mastery (Scarlet Crusade), Light's Vengeance (Argent Crusade), or A New Dawn (an enlightened Argent Dawn). The Argent Dawn would not be missing in the middle

the problem with your mastery #3 mechanic, they are able to creep before getting mastery #3. so there would be a descrepency in the timeline. With the way I have it set up, they can become Scarlet Crusade or enlightened Silver Hand without having to become Argent Dawn (which makes sense). But in order to become Argent Crusade, they must first conquer Acherus: The Ebon Hold
 
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From wat I understand wen u creep archeus u become argent dawn correct? Wat if I tech the argent crusade mastery beforehand? Wat if I tech the scarlet crusade mastery after I become argent dawn?

Here's the issue, ur method means that no matter wat mastery u plan on taking, it involves becoming the argent dawn a one time or another. Yes I cud chose not to creep archeus but then I miss out gold and exp. My mechanic wud make argent dawn an option, not a neccessaty:

silverhand->scarlet crusade(mastery)
silverhand->empowered silverhand(mastery)
silverhand->argent dawn(mastery)->argent crusade(event)
 
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Agh. No. I just said that becoming the Argent Dawn is not essential for the Scarlet Crusade or A New Dawn Masteries. Those are options. It is only essential for the Lights Vengeance mastery, cause that makes sense.
This is what is implemented (except scarlet crusade, i need to work on that). These are the possibilities:

Silver Hand -> Scarlet Crusade (Mastery)
Silver Hand -> Empowered Silver Hand (Mastery)
Silver Hand -> Argent Dawn (acherus event) -> Argent Crusade
Silver Hand -> Argent Dawn (acherus event) -> Scarlet Crusade (Mastery)
Silver Hand -> Argent Dawn (acherus event) -> empowered Argent Dawn (Mastery)
Silver Hand -> Empowered Silver Hand (Mastery) -> empowered Argent Dawn (event)

see what i mean? Argent Dawn is a necessity only for the Light's Vengeance Mastery, where it would make sense.
And someone may not wish to creep it because it is a bit difficult to destroy.
 
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I dont mean u need to creep it to chose ur mastery, i mean that there is no branch that doesnt involve becoming argent dawn. If u take a look at ur branches every one of them involves becoming the argent dawn(not u HAVE to, but if u creep archeus then ur the argent dawn plane and simple)

Like those top 2 choices, if u creep archeus after becoming scarlet crusade or empowerd silverhand u become argent dawn.
 
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Okay, well the Argent Dawn is simply a new name for the Silver Hand once Tirion came to lead it. The change from Silver Hand to Argent Dawn only signifies a change in leadership.
Secondly, if the Silver Hand had not defeated Acherus and become Scarlet Crusade but then you defeat Acherus you wouldn't become Argent Dawn. I never put up there that the Scarlet Crusade could become the Argent Dawn, haha
 
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U did not, but did u impliment a trigger(or plan to) to prevent this from happening? haza!

Anyways all kidding aside the argent dawn isn't a new name for the silverhand, its a different organization altogether, after silverhand was destroyed scarlet crusade was made(basicly the silverhand to the extremem). After seeing how fcked up the scarlet crusade is some members left and formed the argent dawn.

So its not rlly just a new name for silverhand, its a new organization altogether(silverhand was holy and stuff, argent dawn is deticated to world peace).
 
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I am going to implement the trigger once I get to fixing the Silver Hand's MAsteries :)

And well, unless Wowwiki is wrong, the Scarlet Crusade were actually offshoots of the Silver Hand who went berserk (to summarize it). Then after a bit, some members left and forged the Argent Dawn. From there, Tirion forged the Silver Hand and the Argent Crusade into the Argent Crusade. The Silver Hand always existed

Hmmmm. I am wondering if maybe instead of the 'Silver Hand', they should be called the Argent Dawn? It might make working these off-shoots and transformations easier.
 
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Silverhand died with uther, the remaining members became scarlet crusade. Some od those members became the argent dawn.

The silvehand no longer exists, it's the scarlet crusade and the argent dawn.
 
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Just checkd wowwiki, they wrong. Tirion merged knights of ebon hold with argent dawn. NOT the silverhand and argent dawn, silverhand long gone.
 
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Silver Hand was still existant. There were still some members, but their numbers were miniscule.
And yes, Tirion did merge the Knights of the Ebon Hold and Argent dawn to create the Argent Crusade, although this was already implemented ingame.

Either way, I am thinking of renaming Red as 'Argent Dawn.' What do you think? I think it will fix some of these discrepancies we are facing with lore. Plus, after reading up some, the Silver Hand were existant as I thought, but there were very very few numbers.
 
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I suggested that earlier altho NOW I don't think it'll work unless u rework the scarlet mastery(doesn't make sense to revert the crusade to scarlet).
 
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maybe....the Scarlet Crusade invades the Argent Dawn and convicts them of treason or that they are Undead under disguise and so they have to exterminate them?
 
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This is under the assumption the scarlet crusade wud win such a fight, currently the scarlets and argent have a truce. The truce is kept intact by the brotherhood of the horse. Having the player be argent dawn wud be good, but I'm not seeing how scarlet crusade wud be implimented like that.
 
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Oh, I see what you mean.
Eh, the Scarlet Crusade are so fanatical that if they had reason to believe that there were a significant number of Undead hiding in the Argent Dawn ranks, I am sure they would not hesitate to strike
 
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True! Maybe we could integrate the Dreadlords into this somehow....
The Dreadlords are also implemented into the Forsaken (via the Plague Mastery after it is researched, they can ally burning legion which triggers Dreadlords for Forsaken & Demon units).
It could be a cool mass conspiracy series of events
 
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@Roflpotamus & Deolrin: I agree that there should be an equal amount of factions per zone. Yet, there are some that I just do not wish to get rid of. For example, I don't want to get rid of Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons as a faction. Also, I do not want to get rid of Ragnaros/Deathwing. This game takes place after TFT campaign, so at that point, it is uncertain whether Ragnaros/Deathwing were going to ally or not. In addition, the Titanic Watchers are not in a position to conquer Azeroth. The titans themselves are in a better position to do this (considering the Titanic Watchers in Northrend are supposed to be watching over Yogg-Sargon). Also, I would very much like to implement Gilneas. I think it would be a faction many players would enjoy. As a result, I am thinking of a factional breakdown such as this:

Well, Deathwing was obviously a minion of the Old Gods, as was Ragnaros. Moreover, they are both located in the same exact region (literally the same spot), which means that if they were both implemented, they would be ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. This isn't too snazzy for balace methinks.

Moreover, the Titanic Watchers could totally roflpowns anything seeing how they were all corrupted by Yogg-Saron and are bolstered by hundreds of thousands of Iron troops (Vyrkul, Dwarves, etc. Al Iron).

Northern Kali (2 players): Night Elves, Orcs, or Satyrs
Southern Kali (2 players): Silithid, Infinite Dragons, Tauren, or Titans
Northern EK (2 players): Gilneas, Forsaken, Silver Hand, or Amani Empire
Southern EK (2 players): Deathwing, Ragnaros, Stormwind, Gurubashi Empire, or Ironforge
Outland (1 player): Burning Legion, Illidari (Fel Orcs, Naga, Draenei) or Illidari (Blood Elves)
Northrend (2 players): Scourge, Iron Empire/Nerubians, or Drakkari Empire
Oceans (1 player): Naga or Kvaldir

Souther Kali: You can easily turn the Infinites to a cool event for a player but not Theramore without a huge lorelol. The Infinites are not a definite existence at the end of WC 3, whereas Theramore is probably one of the largest (if not the largest) Human settlement in the world by the end of WC 3.
Northern EK: Keep Gilneas out as an event. They've remained closed off this whole time. The power vacuum in Quel'Thalas would obviously be filled by the Amani, moreover, the Amani would imbue life into the region, otherwise, not a single player is based out of it.
Southern EK: Again, DW and Rag are based in the same exact zone and are allies, merge them. This will give a myriad of possible awesome events for the faction. Get rid of the Gurubashi seeing how they've done nothing for thousands of years whereas the Amani were very active in the Second War.
Outland: Why only one player? Lore-wise the region is larger than Lordaeron. There is no balance in only having one player at all, he'll just join the Southern Azeroth fight, leaving Outland void of combat. The players are fine (based off of DAoW), however, I wold give the Draeni to the BE as well and work in some creative lore.
Northrend: Why only two players? This zone is larger than Azeroth (the continent). Moreover, the Nerubians really couldn't be reduced to the Iron Empire. They could be allied to them, but if made the same race then there would be TOO MANY UNITS AND HEROES that Should be included but aren't. The Drakkari can easily be taken out seeing how they have done nothing just as well.
Oceans: We talked about this, but if you insist, oh well. Basically a faction that can go anywhere, attack anywhere, and not suffer any penalties for their units is going to be op. While the Fel Orc/Naga Illidari Naga can be weak because they can serve as harass troops while the Fel Orcs serve as the mainline troops, the Naga faction does not enjoy this loophole seeing how all their units are Naga. The Naga in AWLR were probably the most imbalanaced and universally hated aspect of that game, and now people are turning on Bloodpact Pink for much the same reason (imbalance, messes up the gameplay). DAoW revolves round unbalaced gameplay with a Green that can strike from three different continents, and compare how often that is played to AWLR. Lastly, the Khvaldir are a joke unto a joke. They have nothing other than 'OH HEY We're here, OH NOES WE DIED'.

If you really want to do such a blatantly imbalanced construction, then I've offered all the help I can and I'm off to other endeavors.

This would result in a factional breakdown of: 3, 4, 4, 5, 3, 3, 2.
As said before, for balancing purposes, each zone should have near equal number of factions to choose from. As a result, I think one or two more factions should be added to Northern Kali. I cannot think of any though. Any ideas anyone?

Why four factions instead of three? Moreover, you can't claim balane as the rationale here when the numbers of factions per zone range from 2 to 5 and you seem intent and glad on keeping that.
 
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Silver Hand was still existant. There were still some members, but their numbers were miniscule.
And yes, Tirion did merge the Knights of the Ebon Hold and Argent dawn to create the Argent Crusade, although this was already implemented ingame.

Either way, I am thinking of renaming Red as 'Argent Dawn.' What do you think? I think it will fix some of these discrepancies we are facing with lore. Plus, after reading up some, the Silver Hand were existant as I thought, but there were very very few numbers.

Actually, renaming them the Argent Dawn would create even more discrepancies.

Name them Lordaern Remnants and give them three seperate paths: Argent Dawn/Crusade, Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught (the latter parts being events), and some random third thing please not the magical wind chimes of love Draeni bit. That has to be the single worst piece of lore in all of WoW.
 
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True! Maybe we could integrate the Dreadlords into this somehow....
The Dreadlords are also implemented into the Forsaken (via the Plague Mastery after it is researched, they can ally burning legion which triggers Dreadlords for Forsaken & Demon units).
It could be a cool mass conspiracy series of events

Would be cool, but this is looking to be more and more similar to DAoW sadly.

That game failed, take not why. =[
 
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