[Lords of Europe] Unique Unit Ideas

[SasuhKun]

Everything "set" then... >_> As far as I'm aware, even if you DO remove the food limit, the max units you can do is 300... is it not?

 

[Goffterdom]

If I remove the food limit there wont be any unit limit.

Everything "set" then... >_>

Hmm ? Didnt get it.

 

[SasuhKun]

A lot of things are already set, only some few details aren't (Like if the buildings should provide influence or not)

 

[Goffterdom]

I also thought about new things that can be done to remove this idea of "europa-clone". I will remove "Mercenary Frigate", change name of "Feudal Knight" and other kind of stuff (maybe redo whole units too). I wanted to add a trade system as AoE II have. Maybe adds arrow galley (to have warships before powder age). Add a ranking system for units (basically increases change of critical and avoid). Remove Kings to add a "Promote Unit" system. Which allows to transform a high ranked unit into a Captain of its type (Infantry/Cavalry/Ranged). Maybe change nations available and the choosing system. I will remove military unit at start and just give a builder. I will decreases units size (from 0.8 to 0.6). Maybe some changes concerning tech tree.

This is new stuff I posted on w3Diplomacy. What's your feelings ?

There lots of things we are not set for now and are crucial for game.

Ability for units (thats a lot of work)
Abilities for Kings (or for new heroes)
New units cost (new set of unit ?)
Final bonuses for kingdoms (also the system which gives those bonuses)
Final Influence System
and other stuff I'm not certain about it for now.

 

[Luffy]

I'm thinking on removing the food limit -.-

if you do planning on it, then just remove the food usage of advanced units (for example, like hand cannoner), it will support the training of them.

 

[SasuhKun]

That's what he pretty much meant, he's gonna remove the food of everything.

 

[Luffy]

That's what he pretty much meant, he's gonna remove the food of everything.

I know that but I mean "just" remove the food usage of advanced units.

 

[SasuhKun]

Oh... I see. Well, their training is already really supported, after all, their dmg counters everything, except fortified armor.

 

[Goffterdom]

@Luffy: I wont do that, it would really make final units overpowered.

Goffterdom
Ok what I came up with this night:
Every town will be more important (Ill decrease their number in the new terrain) to increase their importance (more resources given (like double), harder to take).
Towns have mana from 0 to 11.
Every turn (a turn will be 2 minutes instead of 1'30) they get one mana.
From 0 to 4 the city is taken.
From 5 to 10 it is under control.
At 11 the city is annexed.

If you take a city you never took it will have 0 mana.
If you take a city you took in the last ten minutes (five rounds) it will have 1/2 of the mana it had when another player take it to you.
If you take a city you took for more than ten minutes it will have 0 mana.
You'll be able to enable/disable taxes from a town. A town providing taxes wont receive mana every turn.

To help noob people or expansionist player the first Influence Research will be available at Feudal Age.

I'll remove food limit, it means I will add an upkeep system (every unit will cost gold every turn).

Huum ?

 

[Catch_ya]

England - Longbowman

Persia - War Elephant

Turkey - Janissary

long live Age of Empire II!

btw nice project! im still readin ._.

 

[SasuhKun]

hehe... we based some things on Age of Empire II xD

 

[Bettaxx]

History nerd here (and by history nerd, I mean I look up history crap for fun ), here to help some with ideas. :U

Map!

Sorry for the hugeness of the map! But it is a nice visual of 14th century Europe.
But notice Scotland, Denmark-Norway, the lands of the Teutonic Knights, the Republic of Novgorod, Moscow, the Golden Horde (remains of the Mongol Empire), Lithuania and Poland as separate entities (their union occurred after the Dark Ages), Aragon, Navarre, Portugal, Republic of Genoa, Republic of Venice, the Papal States, Naples, Moldavia, Albania, Bosnia, the Ottoman Empire (Turkey is the Republic of Turkey formed after World War I, sorry nerd moment >_>), the Empire of Timur-lane, etc.
Medieval Europe was not just France, England, and all the other present-day power countries. Spain was not Spain yet, it was Leon y Castille, and France still did not yet own all of its current day territory. Hungary, Poland, and Lithuania were territorial monsters in their own right. And the Holy Roman Empire was infamous for being a disjoint union.
The Teutonic Knights didn't work for Poland or Lithuania, but against them, and harshly. In World War II, the Nazis used the Teutonic Knight claim to "the German right to dominate Poland," even as they secretly persecuted the order. The Teutonic Knights and Poland were on anything but friendly terms.
North Africa is beginning to become mostly city-state kingdoms, the Byzantines are being pushed off the map entirely, Italy was beginning to break down into its city-state controlled kingdoms as well, etc etc.

So realism ideas:
Change Holy Roman Huskarls (Housecarl in Wikipedia - they were Nordic more than German) to Landsknecht (Landsnecht in Wikipedia - pikemen)
Adapt countries to be more realistic (No Poland-Lithuania), Eygpt could be either the Ayyubid Empire (famous for crushing the Crusader States) or the Mameluke Kingdom. Involve the Mongols and Timurlane somehow (Neutral Hostiles spawn and move towards the center of the map, conquering as they go). Etc.

Sorry for if I sounded demanding or like a know-it-all or anything; I just wanted to suggest some stuff. I realize some stuff has to stay for the sake of gameplay. I love Lords of Europe. Just ask if you want to know anything else; I've got maps galore (Europe from the 900s to the 1500s, and on), and know a few things about a lot of the countries involved. (On a parting note, I see you have Ukraine and Duchy of Kiev. They're one in the same lol)

 

[SasuhKun]

Wow, thank you very much Bettax. About Spain, it is ALREADY Leon y Castille (Actually, in-game, Castilla y Leon) we just use Spain since... I don't know, we just say. (Grammar Nazism? lol) I knew some of those things, but they never meant great things to me (Don't worry with that, your post was a big help) hopefully Goffterdom will get inspired. And really, there is not any lance special unit, so it would be really good. By the way, I think it should be really good if you subscribed here: http://wc3diplo.net/index.php
People would use more of your historical knowledge there. And I made a thread there, you should really show up there and help us. (By the way, if you can... you would mind to read the 360 posts? Only so you don't state things that we already discussed about or something...)

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Ok, I haven't read this thoroughly yet, but just a question, is Finland still positioned in NORWAY??? Thats one of those things that has been pissing me off. But it's beginning to look nice. And take mechanical man's post in consideration, as he got some important facts there.

 

[Mechanical Man]

(No Poland-Lithuania)

Some (more informal) union existed already from end of 14th century, under jagielonian era, when they were fighting teutonic order together.

 

[SasuhKun]

Wish that Goffterdom had read this already.

 

[Bettaxx]

Some (more informal) union existed already from end of 14th century, under jagielonian era, when they were fighting teutonic order together.

Didn't know that. You learn something new every day.

Reading the posts, I'll see what I can do about signing up on Wc3diplo; only problem is, with most forums I always forget to check them . Just ask if you want any other ideas. And yes, no more Finland in Norway please, haha.

 

[giorgos5192]

Allright here's what i have to say...Inspired from the map lords of europe i im accualy making a map like it but...It will be spawn based.Just to mention...Oh and btw byzants and greeks were the same.Not different factions

 

[Bettaxx]

Oh and btw byzants and greeks were the same.Not different factions

Yeah, the Greeks were under the control of the Byzantine/East Roman (call it what you will :U) Empire up until the 1400s. They ran a lot of the governmental functions and Greek became the official language of the Byzantines eventually.

And by Beni Ghaniya, do you mean The Banu Ghaniya? That's the only thing I can find related to the Beni Ghaniya. ?_? I'm interested because I've never heard of them before.

 

[giorgos5192]

Allright...After the capture of the city Constantinople 1453 from the ottoman empire the Vizantine state destroyed complitely.For 400 years todays greece was ottoman empire.But in 1821 the greeks revolt against the ottomans (or turks) so the greek state was formed some years after the victory over the ottomans.So Vizantium was at 1453.The official state of greece was formed in 1833 i think...Trust me im greek.Yes indeed some greek bastard language was talking by the vizantines.A mix of ancient and new greek language

 

[SasuhKun]

Hmm.... Giorgos really look like a greek name. Thanks for the feedback. If I understood you well, you want Goffterdom to use Ottoman Empire instead of Greece?

 

[Goffterdom]

----TOPIC DONE----

The final summery of the whole changes:

TAKE CARE !!!

EUROPE:
THE ART OF WAR

This is a summery of all the changes I'm going to make on Lords of Europe. As you can notice the map will no longer be named LoE. This is definitely a great development in the map so I decided to change the name.

The next version will be made of what is written here, but anything is still in consideration so you can give feedbacks, comments and improvements you think there should be. The 4.0 Changelog is dead and not exhaustive anymore. The whole changes are made of all ideas you gave me and ideas I had of course.

I.Great Changes
• New terrain
• Nations Changing
• Game Speed
• Ally System
• Modes ?
• Unit System
• Bonus Nation
• Hero System
• Trade System
• City and Influence System
• Ambush
• Unique Units
• Others

II.Details
1.New Terrain
• Less cities ( 80)
• More balance in city placement
• Real Europe relief
• More room to load/unload sea units

2.Nations Changing
Nations: Castile, France, England, Holy Roman Empire, Hungary, Byzantine Empire, Papal States, Lithuania, Russia States, Norway, Sweden, Seljuk Turks, Mamluke Sultanate, Persia, Moslem State Morocco), Moslem State (Tunisia).
So there are 16 nations at all.

3.Gamespeed
The game is slower than before to offer a greater realism.
• Influence System which slows expansion
• Cost for researches and ages are increased
• Time between two turns probably increases (from 90'' to 120'')

4.Ally System
• New ally status: Hostile, Neutral, Ally, Submit
• New alliance system: Alliance managed in Capital (or in a devoted building)
• Mass ally will be impossible

5.Modes ?
Modes which I'm considering: (maybe there wont be any modes)
• The Conqueror: Control every city of the map.
• The Diplomat: Control at least ¾ of the cities with your whole team (team of 2 max).
• The Patriot: Free for all.
• Regicide: Be the last King alive (a King is spawned at start).
• For Ruin: Be the first to reach 1500 (or more, dont know for now) kills.
• For Glory: Be the first to control 50 cities or more with 80 influence or more.

6.Unit System
• Smaller size (0,6)
• Cost reviewed
• Stats smaller (so units will die faster but cost less)
• Blunt damage type removed
• Damages/armors ratio reviewed for more balance
• Units ranking system
• No military units at start (only one builder)
• New warship (War Galley) available at Feudal Age
• Tech-tree revised (planed: 3 Tech buildings, 4 troops buildings)
• Abilities redone (at least one ability for each unit)
• Supplying system for ships (using mana)
• Upkeep (each unit will cost ~1/10 of its cost every turn)
• No food limit
• Siege units have to pack/unpack before shooting (but they'll be able to shot units and not only buildings, stats will be reviewed for more balance)
• Sight range of all units decreased
• New models and icons
• DPS for poison increased
• More differences between North and South units
• Added a battering ram to Siege units

7.Bonus Nation
Each nation will have a specific bonus.
You have to remember that units' stats are now smaller than before. There's nothing final but it looks like a regular footman will have ~50 hit points and deals ~7 damages.

Bonus Nation

Castile
• Ships: +60 movement speed
• Shipyard: Building time decreased (-15'')
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼).

France
• Cavalry: +200 sight range, +8 hit points, +4 damages

England
• Ships: +150 hit points, +10 damages
• Archers: +15% attack speed

Holy Roman Empire
• Unique unit is hired instead of trained
• Melee: +7 hit points, +20% regeneration rate

Hungary
• Starting resources increased (400/200)
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Melee: +2 damages

Byzantine Empire
• Skirmishers/Pikemen: +4 damages
• Priests: Better heal (9 hit points)
• Crusaders: Improved level for Faith (ability)

Papal States
• Priests: Better heal (9 hit points)
• Religion Units: +8 hit points
• Crusaders: +5 damages

Lithuania
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Organic units: +2 armor
• Cavalry: +8% attack speed

Russian States
• Starting resources increased (400/200)
• Unique unit: Training time decreased (-7'')
• Organic units: +4 hit points

Norway
• Ships: +150 hit points, +4 armor, +10% attack speed, +5 damages

Sweden
• Infantry: +3 damages, +6 hit points, +25% regeneration rate
• Shipyard: Cost decreased (-120/70)

Seljuk Turks
• Improved income (+8%)
• All powder units available at Imperial Age (but requires an expansive Research)

Mamluke Sultanate
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Archers: +4 damages
• Transport Ships: Building time decreased (-10''), cost decreased (-60/40)

Persia
• Faster expansion (1/3 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Organic units: +3 damages

Maroc
• Ships: +60 movement speed
• Cavalry: +10 hit points, +3 damages

Tunisia
• Ships: +60 movement speed, +150 hit points
• Trade: 10% extra gold for each trade

8.Hero System
There are no kings anymore (excepted in Regicide Mode where King's a unit). There are four heroes available: Infantry Captain, Ranger Captain, General, Admiral. To summon them you'll have to “Promote” (a custom ability available in one building) a high ranked unit (a unit with the highest rank). It will make it turns into a hero of the same type of the targeted unit. Heroes can not be resurected.
Infantry → Infantry Captain
Cavalry → General
Archery → Ranger Captain
Naval → Admiral

All heroes have different abilities.

9.Trade System
There will be a trade system such as AoE II. You'll be able to trade with allies only (it'll need one or two researches too).
Each city will have a “Trade” ability which needs to target another market. It will send a trade caravan to the target, then it'll be automatically. Gold awarded for trade will depends on the distance between both markets.

10.City and Influence System
First of all a blank ability will explain the whole system in every town.

Each city has mana (0-25). It represents the control you have on it. The more mana it has the more control you have. Mana regeneration is 1 every turn. The mana is set to 0 when you take it for the first time. If you take back a city you lost in the last ten turns it will have half of the mana it had.

There will be two ways to increase speed of getting control:
• Armies: if there are military units near your town it'll increase mana regeneration rate
• Civil Militia: a building who can be spawned by the city. It'll increase mana regeneration rate and also gives a chance to avoid revolt (~50% ?).

There are different state for cities depending on their mana:
• From 0 to 14: The city is taken, it needs 6 ip (Influence Point)
• From 14 to 24: The city is under control, it needs 4 ip
• 25: The city is annexed, it needs 2 ip

Current Influence
Influence will now depends on more factors:
• Number of organic units (1 ip for each unit)
• Tech-percent (2 ip for each percent)
• Capital-city (10 ip) (Recall: In 4.0 you'll only have one capital at once)
• Allies (your first ally will gives 8 ip, the second 4 ip)
• Special researches (Expansionism +10 (Feudal Age), Civil Militia +14 (Castle Age), Militia Reinforced Authority +8 (Imperial Age), Order Regulation +10 (Imperial Age), Propaganda +8 (Powder Age))


Influence Needed
City Needs:
• Town State - Influence Point cost
• Taken - 6 ip
• Under Control - 4 ip
• Annexed - 2 ip

Cities lost depending on negative influence
• Current Influence: Number of city lost (city state)
• From -1 to -5: One city (taken)
• From -6 to -10: Three cities (taken)
• From -11 to -15: Three cities (taken), One city (under control)
• From -16 to -20: Four cities (taken), One city (under control)
• From -21 to -25: Four cities (taken), Two cities (under control)
• 26 or below 26: Five cities (taken), Three cities (under control)

Maybe towns will have a “Call to Arms” ability available only if the town has less than 1/3 hit points which summons x militia.

11.Ambush
I'll try to add woods to the new terrain. You wont see in the wood until one of your units comes in, even if you surround the wood. So that you'll be able to hide units in woods to ambush enemies.
Sight range of evereything will be decreased too to encourage using of ambush and usefulness of scout towers and such buildings.

12.Unique Units
Castile: Conquistador
France: Chilvarous Knight
England: Longbowman
Holy Roman Empire: Teutonic Knight
Hungary: Infantry (need a unique name)
Byzantine Empire: Cataphract
Papal States: Templar
Lithuania: Huskarl
Russian States: Infantry (need a unique name)
Norway: Frigate (need a unique name)
Sweden: Warrior (need a unique name)
Seljuk Turks: Janissary
Mamluke Sultanate: Mamluke
Persia: War Elephant
Morocco: Raider (need a unique name)
Tunisia: Beldouin Mounter Archer

13.Others
• Armor/Damages type ratio added in tooltips
• You now start with one city
• Ages evolving is now done thought a research
• Training time of building increased
• Longbowmen now requires Imperial Ages
• Requirements for Ages changed
• Added a research to increase resources limit

 

[SasuhKun]

The Topic of the new, remade LoE

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/europe-art-war-155738/

 

[giorgos5192]

I dont think you would like ''townsmen'' songs
townsmen i mean u know...er the songs which aare sing in greek vilages by some old greeks but there u go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR1gdUQSqeE its from CRETE(the biggest island in Greece) its called Ο ΔΙΓΕΝΗΣ ΨΥΧΟΜΑΧΕΙ (free translation) Diggenis(an akritas most feared by the saracens) is fighting to death or something like that

Allright here's what i suggest about special units (more historical ones) for some countries

Poland Lithuania-Uhlan
Sweeden-Viking infantry
Russia-Zvezda Footman
Germany-Gothic knights(horsemen)
Spain-Tercios(gunmen)
Vizantine Empire-akritas (swordsmen)

 

[SasuhKun]

Hmm... songs hum? Do you think they could be a soundtrack? xD And people, from now on, post on that link over there. Giorgos, I suggest you copy and paste that in the other thread.

 

[giorgos5192]

Allright here's what i suggest about special units (more historical ones) for some countries

Poland Lithuania-Uhlan
Sweeden-Viking infantry
Russia-Zvezda Footman
Germany-Gothic knights(horsemen)
Spain-Tercios(gunmen)
Vizantine Empire-akritas (swordsmen)

 

[SasuhKun]

Giorgos, post that in that link I mentioned.. this topic is "closed" for most uses.

 

[PoseidonSeaGod]

Idk how you're doing your Armor/Weapon systems but it could go somthing like this.

~Attack~

Calvary-(Heavy)
100% V.s. Plate
150% V.s. Chain
100% V.s Leather
150% V.s. Cloth
50% V.s. Building

Infantry-(Normal)
75% V.s. Plate
100% v.s. Chain
150% V.s. Leather
150% V.s. Cloth
50% v.s. Building

Siege-(Siege)
50% V.s. Plate
50% V.s. Chain
50% V.s. Leather
50% V.s. Cloth
200% V.s. Building

Missile-(Piercing)
100% V.s. Plate
150% V.s. Chain
100% V.s Leather
150% V.s. Cloth
50% V.s. Building

Support-(Magic)
50% V.s Plate
50% V.s Chain
50% V.s Leather
50% V.s Cloth
50% V.s Building

Tower/Capital-(Chaos)
150% V.s Plate
150% V.s Chain
150% V.s Leather
150% V.s Cloth
150% V.s Siege

Halberd-(Medium)
150% V.s. Plate
100% V.s. Chain
50% V.s. Leather
150% V.s. Cloth
50% V.s. Building

~Armour~

Plate-(Heavy Armour)
150% From Halberd
150% From Tower
100% From Piercing
75% From Infantry
50% From Support
50% From Siege

Chain-(Medium Armour)
150% From Calvary
150% From Missile
100% From Infantry
100% From Halberd
50% From Support
50% From Siege

Leather-(Light Armour)
150% From Infantry
100% From Calvary
100% From Cloth
50% From Support
50% From Halberd
50% From Siege


Cloth-(Un-Armored)
150% From Calvary
150% From Infantry
150% From Missile
50% From Support
50% From Siege
150% From Halberd

Building-(Stone)
200% From Siege
50% From Missile
50% From Calvary
50% From Infantry
50% From Halberd
50% From Support



Unit Types
Calvary: Calvary Attack, Plate Armour.
Infantry: Infantry Attack, Chain Armour.
Missile: Missile Attack, Leather Armour.
Siege: Siege Attack, Cloth Armour.
Support: Support Attack, Cloth Armour.
Halberd: Halberd Attack, Chain Armour.


Goes Like this.
Buildings > Calvary, Infantry, Missile, Support, and Halberd.
Siege > Buildings.
Calvary, Infantry, Missile, Halberd > Siege
Calvary > Infantry
Infantry > Halberd
Missile > Infantry
Halberd > Calvary
All > Support