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Wonder if someone has one regular ally (a nearby kingdom) and a IRL friend playing in the same time. The IRL player is not so good but the other guy is skilled and has lots of cities. The first guy will have to choice between the two allies when he reach x cities ? I think it is hard to remove an ally to someone just because he's getting too strong. I mean, for gameplay this is logical and more challenging. But the player will dislike to be penalized whereas he's playing quite well.
I see your point; it becomes a sort of competitiveness vs casual problem. As much as I hate modes, they might fit here (although by votes rather than host's choice).
This was exactly what I thought but I had another idea. It can be good to put a limit for Towers (4 per cities) / Outposts (2 per cities) / Frontier Fort (2 per cities). And then make Influence depending on number of those buildings.
Hmm. I like the per-city limit on towers (it also gives incentive, in a way, to use them to defend cities) but I'm still not sure about influence from them.
Hmm, I think this is part of the game. When I play LoE I always build walls and fortifications all around my empire, blocking all water and land access by walls/towers/frontier fort/trebuchet. So that the only ways to my land are under control. But SasuhKun gave a nice idea, what about adding an ability for towns called "Call to Arms" (how original !) available only when you researched something and with a cooldown of 240 ? So that you can easily summons guards to defend the time you sent some guys...
That would be a reasonable solution. Also, it's often unrealistic to assume you can plug the holes fast enough, since with morale dropping to 0 once you take a city players can raise some serious hell by sneaking some knights to trash your most valuable and longest held cities when you make a push and thus leave a gap.
I see your point (again, this is sort of a casual vs competitive thing) but on the other hand it makes them get targeted by enemies (also, you can still attack move with units lacking an attack, it's just sometimes annoying).
Yes, maybe you already noticed there were visual differences between them. I followed them, castle gives higher income than keep and town hall. For south the arcane observatory has the higher income, then a new model for middle-south town (a dalaran tower) and then the simple building.
@PurplePoot:
Hmm, I think this is part of the game. When I play LoE I always build walls and fortifications all around my empire, blocking all water and land access by walls/towers/frontier fort/trebuchet. So that the only ways to my land are under control. But SasuhKun gave a nice idea, what about adding an ability for towns called "Call to Arms" (how original !) available only when you researched something and with a cooldown of 240 ? So that you can easily summons guards to defend the time you sent some guys...
Your cities have them since beginning. There is a upgrade to increase the number and quality of the defending warriors, by military subscription or something. You cannot activate it. It will auto-activate everytime someone attack the city. Crawlers have a similar system in a map he made. (He actually creates lots of altered melee maps. Melee with a twist, basicly. I think you played one... explosions I believe. On emerald gardens map. Well, there is one named Spiders on which trees grow randomly. They eventualy grow as time passes, and everytime someone get near it, the tree spawn a spider and the spider attack the unit. From what I KNOW, it is not a summon, but a skill that you AIM on someone and it has an "aggro" range.
And it is auto-cast, so basicly, everytime someone approaches your town, it would automatically engage enemies. Though you should adapt it so that it would only activate with 1/2 half life, and only activates when someone attacks it. You should get more informations with crawlers. Or just copy his spell, so your units would engage everytime a enemy passes. And how are you planning to do the new allies way? The same way? -ally command? Or maybe you could do Solar Conquest way. Well, keep working on it *-*
the Holy Roman Empire's capitol should be Vienna.
(the Holy Roman Empire never actually had a static capitol as the head state was constantly elected and re elected however austria was the strongest and most influencial member and therefore the most deserving of the capitol.)
2nd
the best thing to do with the king is drastically reduce his attack but mildly increase HP
(this way he can participate in battles without being slaughtered instantly but can't tank all you're archers)
3rd
adding special buildings (like mini-wonders) that improve you're influence would be a good addition to the influence system (reducing the importance of you're army so you don't get you're influence wipped out so fast)
If it's HRE then the capitol should not be Vienna but Frankfurt, Nuremburg, or Aachen*capitol of HRE under Charlemagne*
Anyway, I tried the map, I thought the influence system was INCREDIBLY annoying, it just encourages killing units causing to rebel, which is utter stupidity if you ask me. Mostly because of the fact that it causes mass rebellions even if your only one influence over.
Furthermore, a tiny bug I saw was castle age being called castel age.
Then you played a old version. In the newest the Castle Age is fixed. And just don't go to war with small positive influence, cause you'll lose units whenever you win or lose.
SasuhKun, this is why I told you I disagree with you.
The current system isnt good at all. Maybe you can find it average but this is it. It slows the game too much, lots of towns revolt while you have only -1 influence. It is needed to be reworked.
For now the only point I can come up with is that I have to include more factors into it. My mum gave me some ideas like Propaganda (as a research) to permanently increases influence. It can be good to find other research ideas or other way to improve it.
I gave an idea to get a upgrade named Reinforced Authority before ._. And in the new influence system that thing of losing lots of cities in -1 is already fixed. The new influence system is just ok, and it does not slow down... not SO much... >_>
I didnt noticed your research idea. Noticed.
So now I have:
Propaganda, Expansionism, Civil Militia, Reinforced Militia Authority, Order Regulation.
We didnt test the new influence system so we cant now if it's ok or not.
I also thought about new things that can be done to remove this idea of "europa-clone". I will remove "Mercenary Frigate", change name of "Feudal Knight" and other kind of stuff (maybe redo whole units too). I wanted to add a trade system as AoE II have. Maybe adds arrow galley (to have warships before powder age). Add a ranking system for units (basically increases change of critical and avoid). Remove Kings to add a "Promote Unit" system. Which allows to transform a high ranked unit into a Captain of its type (Infantry/Cavalry/Ranged). Maybe change nations available and the choosing system. I will remove military unit at start and just give a builder. I will decreases units size (from 0.8 to 0.6). Maybe some changes concerning tech tree.
I don't know if so that much change will be good on LoE but I am also waiting for your glory of war map too. Or should I only wait for gods and empires of pangahas..
Names don't matter; keep it unique in style. Currently Mercenary Frigates fit into their own category seeing as they can be bought (rather than trained), although I think they should be sold at neutral docks (or cities) rather than from shipyards.
I don't know if so that much change will be good on LoE but I am also waiting for your glory of war map too. Or should I only wait for gods and empires of pangahas..
Then you played a old version. In the newest the Castle Age is fixed. And just don't go to war with small positive influence, cause you'll lose units whenever you win or lose.
Hmm... 40 influence? It should be enough if you're in advantage/ensure the survival of your units. When I went to war, I usualy had 80. Or something. Yes, yes, it is possible. I have a replay xD
I don't think you realize that most people consider that incredibly tedious. The hate for the influence system is not that it is guaranteed to screw your over; it's that it screws you over if you don't play slowly and carefully to the point of boredom.
Not only do some people win every game, but those same people tend to be better players for it; they learn how to fight against superior odds, how to come up with effective strategies in short periods of time, how to get people on their side, etc. The influence system basically guarantees a sit-around game building up to attack moving while replacing any lost units with a large reserve of built-up gold, and thus negates the above important diplomacy gameplay elements, in the end leaving many better players turned away from the game. In addition, when you do need those aspects you get steamrolled by riskier players simply because they were willing to get off their high horse and learn to play.
This is why the influence system is being reworked. So we can let the older in our back and move forward ?
Ok what I came up with this night:
Every town will be more important (Ill decrease their number in the new terrain) to increase their importance (more resources given (like double), harder to take).
Towns have mana from 0 to 11.
Every turn (a turn will be 2 minutes instead of 1'30) they get one mana.
From 0 to 4 the city is taken.
From 5 to 10 it is under control.
At 11 the city is annexed.
If you take a city you never took it will have 0 mana.
If you take a city you took in the last ten minutes (five rounds) it will have 1/2 of the mana it had when another player take it to you.
If you take a city you took for more than ten minutes it will have 0 mana.
You'll be able to enable/disable taxes from a town. A town providing taxes wont receive mana every turn.
To help noob people or expansionist player the first Influence Research will be available at Feudal Age.
I'll remove food limit, it means I will add an upkeep system (every unit will cost gold every turn).
Guess I should have quoted; I was referring to SasuhKun's post directly above mine, who seems to refuse to be able to admit that there's anything wrong with the current system.
you can set stats for each nation (religion, government type)
each turnyou get points based on things such as religion, military, technology, government type, size. the thing is, the number of points you get for certain things change. one turn the person with the largest millitary gets a lot of bonus points then for the next 7 it's religion. then off to another random thing.
these points could be spent on things like crusades, natural disasters, increasing influence, etc. the actual values would be randomized.
EDIT: i should clarify.
each player picks things like
Religion: Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant (depending on time), Muslim etc.
Government Type: Republic, Monarchy, Despotism, Democracy(ancient greece)
each of these essentially become a sort of "team" where if the people of, say, Muslim Religion, have the strongest empire than they get the most points. where as if the Catholics have only 1 guy (unlikely) than he does not. (the actual values should be hidden to prevent people from chosing based on numbers)
as we'll the actual numbers that the people get could be random. for instance.
Government type becomes more important than religion for a turn. everyone who is Monarchy (they won) gets more points than everyone who is Catholic.
these points as previously stated could be spent on influence, cash, one time abillities.
EDIT2: hey just came up with another idea.
every nation that is NOT picked will spawn neutral hostile units evry turn (after a certain grace period)
these neutral hostile spawns will attack move towards a random PICKED nation's capitol.
the spawns will increase based on a simple points system.
the points system would work by....
influence gained by millitary for all players (player1 + player2 etc...)
divided by the number of players.
Sorry warman, I didnt notice your last suggestion which is really, really interesting, I'll work on it dont worry if it dosent appear in the next thing.
---TOPIC DONE---
The final summery of the whole changes:
EUROPE:
THE ART OF WAR
This is a summery of all the changes I'm going to make on Lords of Europe. As you can notice the map will no longer be named LoE. This is definitely a great development in the map so I decided to change the name.
The next version will be made of what is written here, but anything is still in consideration so you can give feedbacks, comments and improvements you think there should be. The 4.0 Changelog is dead and not exhaustive anymore. The whole changes are made of all ideas you gave me and ideas I had of course.
I.Great Changes
• New terrain
• Nations Changing
• Game Speed
• Ally System
• Modes ?
• Unit System
• Bonus Nation
• Hero System
• Trade System
• City and Influence System
• Ambush
• Unique Units
• Others
II.Details
1.New Terrain
• Less cities ( 80)
• More balance in city placement
• Real Europe relief
• More room to load/unload sea units
2.Nations Changing
Nations: Castile, France, England, Holy Roman Empire, Hungary, Byzantine Empire, Papal States, Lithuania, Russia States, Norway, Sweden, Seljuk Turks, Mamluke Sultanate, Persia, Moslem State Morocco), Moslem State (Tunisia).
So there are 16 nations at all.
3.Gamespeed
The game is slower than before to offer a greater realism.
• Influence System which slows expansion
• Cost for researches and ages are increased
• Time between two turns probably increases (from 90'' to 120'')
4.Ally System
• New ally status: Hostile, Neutral, Ally, Submit
• New alliance system: Alliance managed in Capital (or in a devoted building)
• Mass ally will be impossible
5.Modes ?
Modes which I'm considering: (maybe there wont be any modes)
• The Conqueror: Control every city of the map.
• The Diplomat: Control at least ¾ of the cities with your whole team (team of 2 max).
• The Patriot: Free for all.
• Regicide: Be the last King alive (a King is spawned at start).
• For Ruin: Be the first to reach 1500 (or more, dont know for now) kills.
• For Glory: Be the first to control 50 cities or more with 80 influence or more.
6.Unit System
• Smaller size (0,6)
• Cost reviewed
• Stats smaller (so units will die faster but cost less)
• Blunt damage type removed
• Damages/armors ratio reviewed for more balance
• Units ranking system
• No military units at start (only one builder)
• New warship (War Galley) available at Feudal Age
• Tech-tree revised (planed: 3 Tech buildings, 4 troops buildings)
• Abilities redone (at least one ability for each unit)
• Supplying system for ships (using mana)
• Upkeep (each unit will cost ~1/10 of its cost every turn)
• No food limit
• Siege units have to pack/unpack before shooting (but they'll be able to shot units and not only buildings, stats will be reviewed for more balance)
• Sight range of all units decreased
• New models and icons
• DPS for poison increased
• More differences between North and South units
• Added a battering ram to Siege units
7.Bonus Nation
Each nation will have a specific bonus.
You have to remember that units' stats are now smaller than before. There's nothing final but it looks like a regular footman will have ~50 hit points and deals ~7 damages.
Castile
• Ships: +60 movement speed
• Shipyard: Building time decreased (-15'')
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼).
France
• Cavalry: +200 sight range, +8 hit points, +4 damages
England
• Ships: +150 hit points, +10 damages
• Archers: +15% attack speed
Holy Roman Empire
• Unique unit is hired instead of trained
• Melee: +7 hit points, +20% regeneration rate
Hungary
• Starting resources increased (400/200)
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Melee: +2 damages
Byzantine Empire
• Skirmishers/Pikemen: +4 damages
• Priests: Better heal (9 hit points)
• Crusaders: Improved level for Faith (ability)
Papal States
• Priests: Better heal (9 hit points)
• Religion Units: +8 hit points
• Crusaders: +5 damages
Lithuania
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Organic units: +2 armor
• Cavalry: +8% attack speed
Russian States
• Starting resources increased (400/200)
• Unique unit: Training time decreased (-7'')
• Organic units: +4 hit points
Sweden
• Infantry: +3 damages, +6 hit points, +25% regeneration rate
• Shipyard: Cost decreased (-120/70)
Seljuk Turks
• Improved income (+8%)
• All powder units available at Imperial Age (but requires an expansive Research)
Mamluke Sultanate
• Faster expansion (2/5 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Archers: +4 damages
• Transport Ships: Building time decreased (-10''), cost decreased (-60/40)
Persia
• Faster expansion (1/3 of towns' hit points instead of ¼)
• Organic units: +3 damages
Maroc
• Ships: +60 movement speed
• Cavalry: +10 hit points, +3 damages
Tunisia
• Ships: +60 movement speed, +150 hit points
• Trade: 10% extra gold for each trade
8.Hero System
There are no kings anymore (excepted in Regicide Mode where King's a unit). There are four heroes available: Infantry Captain, Ranger Captain, General, Admiral. To summon them you'll have to “Promote” (a custom ability available in one building) a high ranked unit (a unit with the highest rank). It will make it turns into a hero of the same type of the targeted unit. Heroes can not be resurected.
Infantry → Infantry Captain
Cavalry → General
Archery → Ranger Captain
Naval → Admiral
All heroes have different abilities.
9.Trade System
There will be a trade system such as AoE II. You'll be able to trade with allies only (it'll need one or two researches too).
Each city will have a “Trade” ability which needs to target another market. It will send a trade caravan to the target, then it'll be automatically. Gold awarded for trade will depends on the distance between both markets.
10.City and Influence System
First of all a blank ability will explain the whole system in every town.
Each city has mana (0-25). It represents the control you have on it. The more mana it has the more control you have. Mana regeneration is 1 every turn. The mana is set to 0 when you take it for the first time. If you take back a city you lost in the last ten turns it will have half of the mana it had.
There will be two ways to increase speed of getting control:
• Armies: if there are military units near your town it'll increase mana regeneration rate
• Civil Militia: a building who can be spawned by the city. It'll increase mana regeneration rate and also gives a chance to avoid revolt (~50% ?).
There are different state for cities depending on their mana:
• From 0 to 14: The city is taken, it needs 6 ip (Influence Point)
• From 14 to 24: The city is under control, it needs 4 ip
• 25: The city is annexed, it needs 2 ip
Current Influence
Influence will now depends on more factors:
• Number of organic units (1 ip for each unit)
• Tech-percent (2 ip for each percent)
• Capital-city (10 ip) (Recall: In 4.0 you'll only have one capital at once)
• Allies (your first ally will gives 8 ip, the second 4 ip)
• Special researches (Expansionism +10 (Feudal Age), Civil Militia +14 (Castle Age), Militia Reinforced Authority +8 (Imperial Age), Order Regulation +10 (Imperial Age), Propaganda +8 (Powder Age))
Influence Needed
City Needs:
• Town State - Influence Point cost
• Taken - 6 ip
• Under Control - 4 ip
• Annexed - 2 ip
Cities lost depending on negative influence
• Current Influence: Number of city lost (city state)
• From -1 to -5: One city (taken)
• From -6 to -10: Three cities (taken)
• From -11 to -15: Three cities (taken), One city (under control)
• From -16 to -20: Four cities (taken), One city (under control)
• From -21 to -25: Four cities (taken), Two cities (under control)
• 26 or below 26: Five cities (taken), Three cities (under control)
Maybe towns will have a “Call to Arms” ability available only if the town has less than 1/3 hit points which summons x militia.
11.Ambush
I'll try to add woods to the new terrain. You wont see in the wood until one of your units comes in, even if you surround the wood. So that you'll be able to hide units in woods to ambush enemies.
Sight range of evereything will be decreased too to encourage using of ambush and usefulness of scout towers and such buildings.
12.Unique Units
Castile: Conquistador
France: Chilvarous Knight
England: Longbowman
Holy Roman Empire: Teutonic Knight
Hungary: Infantry (need a unique name)
Byzantine Empire: Cataphract
Papal States: Templar
Lithuania: Huskarl
Russian States: Infantry (need a unique name)
Norway: Frigate (need a unique name)
Sweden: Warrior (need a unique name)
Seljuk Turks: Janissary
Mamluke Sultanate: Mamluke
Persia: War Elephant
Morocco: Raider (need a unique name)
Tunisia: Beldouin Mounter Archer
13.Others
• Armor/Damages type ratio added in tooltips
• You now start with one city
• Ages evolving is now done thought a research
• Training time of building increased
• Longbowmen now requires Imperial Ages
• Requirements for Ages changed
• Added a research to increase resources limit
meanwhile, I don't know if anyone have suggested this before, how about special stats for some of the cities? For example you can give those to big cities; defence (armor/hp) bonus to the cities which have proven themselves with their defences in history, bonus income to which have been rich at the times, bonus influence-bonus training speed (that would be only for workers though) etc. etc.
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