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In Unanimous Vote, Russia Passes Bill Making It Illegal To Tell Kids Gay People Exist

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^That's exactly what I said.

In my example at first, only two people, no options.
Then are 3, few options.
Then 100,000 more options.
Finally today 7 billion people, incredible amount of options based on the fact that we are so many there is no requirement from each of us to do anything.
 
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I think they tell themselves they are homosexuals just because it's easier. I think that the majority of people who claim to be gay, aren't actually gay in a genetic sense.
 
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Agreed. Despite people saying how they are 'forced by nature' to be gay, after all it's still a choice.

Plus latest researches indicate that in reality practically all people are bisexuals, with only a very small minority being fully straight or fully gay. Which means that people seek love in any gender.
In short: 'not having chosen your sexuality' is bullshit. Leave that privilege to transgenders.
 
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Agreed. Despite people saying how they are 'forced by nature' to be gay, after all it's still a choice.

Plus latest researches indicate that in reality practically all people are bisexuals, with only a very small minority being fully straight or fully gay. Which means that people seek love in any gender.
In short: 'not having chosen your sexuality' is bullshit. Leave that privilege to transgenders.

That explains a lot. But I think we should come back to Russia. Russia is kind of going the wrong way. I mean, even if they kids don't get told about gay people, sooner or later they will find it out. They would have to cut off Russia from the rest of the world to do it successully. Also, if that research is correct, then being gay/bi/straight etc. (anything that isn't pansexual) would just be a fetish. But then again, we could also say that pedophillia is just a fetish if that's correct. Altough, there is a difference between pedophillia and being gay. Since pedophiles usually force children to pleasure them, while gays don't. Back to Russia again. They should just let children know about gay people. There might be statistics showing that children raised in a same-sex family do have more problems, it's probably cause of the large number of homophobes in our society. And more important, gay marriage has something that heterosexual marriage will never have. Every child in a gay marriage is planned. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. I think that's a pro for gay marriage. Also, who knows how many people are actually homophobes, especially if they were raised in a homophobic family. I guess DESTROYER is homophobic just because he was told to think so.
 
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Speaking of which, the 'ban of telling children about gay people' - total bullshit. Excuse my French. The whole children thing was paraphrasing by the Western media. Not sure why would they try to make it seem much worse than it already is...

The law that was passed in the Russian parliament is making 'propaganda of homosexuality' illegal. Obviously you can tell people about homosexuality existing. The law only applies when you promote homosexuality. Which, I admit, is a very loose definition. But basically, propaganda of homosexuality is defined as 'showing homosexuality and not saying that it's bad'.

Plus the law only really applies to organisations and media. You can't really use that law against individual people, unless they go on the streets yelling 'gay propaganda' or something.
 
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I can't believe someone would be apologetic towards that outrageous law.

Seriously, who cares about freedom of speech, and minorities are fun to bully, right?!

And it's really fascinating that some people claim that it's a choice. I don't know that, because I'm not gay, but somehow every gay person seems to say that it's not. So the question of course is, how do homophobes know it better than gays?
 
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Because it's a typical victim reaction. When blamed, offended and criticised it is a natural reaction for a victim to blame something else. In this case nature.
'It wasn't my choice, I did not have a voice in this, nature made me like this' are all justifications for things that did not need them.

Besides, there are thousands of cases of people who have been heterosexual their entire lives becoming homosexual. Does that mean that they were hit by a brick or that nature decided to change them all of the sudden? No. It was because they have made the choice of changing.
 
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The thing that distinguishes people from animals is our ability to control our urges and make choices.

But if you prefer to think that we are all animals, driven by our desires, unable to control and change ourselves, then sure. Enjoy.
 
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I can't believe someone would be apologetic towards that outrageous law.

Seriously, who cares about freedom of speech, and minorities are fun to bully, right?!

And it's really fascinating that some people claim that it's a choice. I don't know that, because I'm not gay, but somehow every gay person seems to say that it's not. So the question of course is, how do homophobes know it better than gays?

Gay people won't say or claim "It's a choice I made". Because the choice itself is in the subconscious.

Here is an example. Let's talk about a kid named Andrew. Andrew has two parents, lives in a normal family. In this family, Andrew is told by his parents every Sunday night at 9:00 to take the weekly bath. However there is a problem. You see Andrew likes Power Rangers, and Power Rangers only airs every Sunday night at 9:00. This starts a conflict for Andrew, the act of bathing is interfering with his desire to watch Power Rangers.

Thus Andrew starts to show a lack of interest in bathing in favor of watching TV through simply ignoring his parents. The parents notice there is a problem but don't understand why, so they start doing fun stuff and work on convincing Andrew to take the bath. Andrew however gets more annoyed than anything and refuses to take his bath in order to watch Power Rangers.

Obviously Andrew is just a kid, and doesn't understand why it's important to take a bath.

Fast forward in time, Andrew didn't understood why it's important to take a bath, all he understood is that responsibilities suck and that they interfere with your desire to do what you want. Hence he always skips a responsibility in favor of fun stuff.

So now Andrew, a teenager, he doesn't bathe and simply stinks. His teachers tell him, his colleagues tell him "Dude, you stink!" but all that accomplishes is to annoy Andrew even further, he starts to believe that people have something with him, and start claiming the age old phrase "why do people care if I bathe or not?".

Let's add few more years and most likely, Andrew isn't socially fit anymore because he doesn't bathe. If you'd ask Andrew, he will tell you "I was born like this, idk why everyone is so keen on taking a bath, I didn't choose it's just how I was born".

But he did choose. He chose when he thought to himself "I feel good when I don't take bathes!", why did he thought that? "because I rather watch Power Rangers than bathe".

Don't tell me, that people actually love being dirty and stinking that flies around them die and pigs avoid them. But Andrew, he believed in a lie, and continued to lie to himself. He believed that it's better to stink and watch Power Rangers, than to be socially fit and lack Power Rangers. But will he acknowledge this? No. Why? Because he is so annoyed about this particular topic, that he doesn't want to discuss or get to the bottom of it, and just conclude "I do how I feel good".

As such, don't tell me people are gay when the partner they are attracted to acts, dresses and looks like the opposite sex which in theory have no attraction to.
 

fladdermasken

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I think the subtext of this debate should be 'Withholding information to protect' against 'Creating awareness to protect'; not homosexuality.

But I guess I'll play along.

Proof? That's just your opinion/speculation.
No one has cited anything on either side so far. At this point I doubt any one can be arsed to back their arguments up with sources, and most 'evidence' would probably not come from a pragmatical source.

The thing that distinguishes people from animals is our ability to control our urges and make choices.
A pack animal does things in spite of their own urges and superficial desires all the time.

Hint: Parenthood

But if you prefer to think that we are all animals, driven by our desires, unable to control and change ourselves, then sure. Enjoy.
Why does it matter? A roll of film will end the way it does anyways, but you haven't seen the outcome for yourself. Determinism vs. random flux of events is a moot point.

Besides, there are thousands of cases of people who have been heterosexual their entire lives becoming homosexual. Does that mean that they were hit by a brick or that nature decided to change them all of the sudden? No. It was because they have made the choice of changing.
Or he finally realized he was swimming against his own current? All I'm going to say is it takes more than the outskirts of a simple epiphany to go through a major change in life styles.

Because the choice itself is in the subconscious.
The difference between "an inevitable cause of biology" and "a subconscious choice" is marginal. In my view poeple think of choice the wrong way. You do have a choice even if the outcome is inevitable. In a way the choice was made before you even made it.

What I'm trying to say is I think inevitability and choice as two polar opposites is a false dichotomy.

he believed in a lie, and continued to lie to himself.
Actually this is kinda meta, but you never lie to yourself and believe it. Because if you believe it it isn't technically a lie, and if you don't believe it it wasn't a very convincing lie to begin with. :D

As such, don't tell me people are gay when the partner they are attracted to acts, dresses and looks like the opposite sex which in theory have no attraction to.
I'm not going to.
 
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Let's not go into the dichotomy of free will and determinism, that is a discussion for another day. The point at hand are life choices.

And frankly my dear, I don't give a damn, because from my opinion we always have a choice, no matter the situation. Whether we like it or not, is another thing, but it is our ability to choose and not follow our instincts (looking at your pack animal argument) that separates us from [most] animals.
 
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It's not a choice to be gay IMO. Being gay, attracted to the other gender is something you are born with. You might not notice in the first years of your life, as other things are more important. But later on, you find it out, find out about yourself.

It's a choice to LIVE OUT your homosexuallity, you can LIVE IT OUT, SHOW IT EVERYONE and have a gay partner.

But you can also CHOOSE to hide your homosexuallity, live with an hetero partner have childs or whatever.

We are born with it, but can choose if we want to LIVE it, or DENY it.
 

fladdermasken

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Let's not go into the dichotomy of free will and determinism, that is a discussion for another day. The point at hand are life choices.
You threw the ball and I caught it. I was just saying I think people are wrong to think of choice as not an inevitability.

And frankly my dear, I don't give a damn, because from my opinion<snip>
Oh gee shit I never realized it was your opinion while my post wasn't. D;::::

we always have a choice, no matter the situation.
I never said anything to spite that.

Whether we like it or not, is another thing, but it is our ability to choose and not follow our instincts
What makes you think that whatever option you chose wasn't instinctual? Even if you deliberately take up a contrary position from what you 'logically' would have chosen otherwise, isn't that too instinctual?
 
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158487-albums5564-picture71021.jpg
 
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So far every post has been along the lines of "my opinion is.." or "I feel like...", which is pretty pointless since none of us is an expert on this field, and most of the speculation presented goes against common sense anyway.


But here are some citations:

Royal College of Psychiatry said:
It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by genetic factors (Mustanski et al, 2005) and/or the early uterine environment (Blanchard et al. 2006). Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/workinpsychiatry/specialinterestgroups/gaylesbian/submissiontothecofe.aspx
 
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Now the question is, why would homosexual organisms be created? The point of life is basically reproduction, so it makes no sense.
Unless we see homosexuality as an attempt by nature to limit human population, but come on, that is silly.
 

fladdermasken

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Do I really have to explicitly say it's what I think is right when it's really implicit already? I don't have any way of showing people are what I have experienced they are on a neural level. At base point: this is a debate, most of my post was open-ended questions and you're being pretty spiteful for so far only having "not given a damn" about anything any one says because apparently you have an opinion already.

Now the question is, why would homosexual organisms be created? The point of life is basically reproduction, so it makes no sense.
This also applies to sterility.

Also aren't you going against your own argument here? If we distinguish ourselves from animals by our ability of choice, why does homosexuality exist in the animal kingdom?

So far every post has been along the lines of "my opinion is.." or "I feel like...", which is pretty pointless since none of us is an expert on this field, and most of the speculation presented goes against common sense anyway.
Where's the fun in spamming what sources say based on an experiment they conducted? If anything, what we should be doing is linking the experiments and let people draw their own conclusions from it.



Barring homosexuality, couldn't we discuss if withholding information from people is efficient in helping them? If it is even possible in modern society with global influence around the web? The implications of dim-outs on this scale? ... anything apart from this?..
 
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I have never been so glad to be from Sweden in my entire life, thank you but we would like to keep our homosexuals and abortions and all those other things that the bible does not approve off.

With that said I absolutely do not think any less of Christians or any other religious people, neither do I have anything against them, I simply they all religions have strong and weak point. I do not wish to offend anyone so please do not take any of my comments as offensive.
 
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I think being gay is so much easier. Just think, you get to be discriminated against, you have your rights stripped, and people are saying you can't get married to the person you love.

All these things are things that Americans want. Americans like being being discriminatory against because minorities have it easier.

Having your rights taken away? That's more American than cherry pie. It's better to be 100% secure and have 0 rights than be 100% free and have little security. Just look at what's going on with the news and the NSA. They're screening all these comments right now... we don't have the right to do anything about it... but we love it.

Getting married to the person you love is all a bunch of horse crap anyways. Who wants it? Divorce rates are over 50% now. It's not like any meaningful marriages exist anymore, so we shouldn't allow gay people to marry each other.

But anyways, I think we can all agree, gay people don't truly exist anyways. They are merely choosing to do it because it's easier, like I said. Promoting gay culture is against nature, too. We all know they were invented in Modern France to decrease the birth rate and push their agenda on us so they can force us to gay-marry them so they have all the power in the world.

Hats off to Mr. Putin!
 
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I have never been so glad to be from Sweden in my entire life, thank you but we would like to keep our homosexuals and abortions and all those other things that the bible does not approve off.

With that said I absolutely do not think any less of Christians or any other religious people, neither do I have anything against them, I simply they all religions have strong and weak point. I do not wish to offend anyone so please do not take any of my comments as offensive.

Whats good about abortion? I want you to google search abortion images with the safety turned off. I cant risk posting pictures here.

Weak points?

tumblr_m0qs3sFscv1qa8sgzo1_r2_500.jpg


Having your rights taken away? That's more American than cherry pie. It's better to be 100% secure and have 0 rights than be 100% free and have little security. Just look at what's going on with the news and the NSA. They're screening all these comments right now... we don't have the right to do anything about it... but we love it.

Why all the butthurt?
 
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How exactly is it easier to be discriminated?

The USA is a very different country than the ones in northern Europe since the USA is a nation dictated by religious laws even though one of basics of which the USA was constituted under was freedom of religion which does not really match with banning same sex marriage. Sadly that's a downside to how democracy works, if the majority of the nation votes against you then racism wins.

And why would homosexuals not be allowed to marry? Why should they be denied happiness? But homosexuals will hopefully get the same rights as everyone else in this world one day. For example 300 years ago black people did not have the same rights as white people and thankfully today they do have the same rights as anyone else in the US so hopefully this will change.

I don't agree with you though, homosexual and bisexual people do exist and it's not something you have more control over than the color of your skin. And it's definitely not against the nature to promote homosexual culture rather the opposite not too do it. And your argument that same sex relations simply exists simply to decrease the population does not really make any sense since they want to adopt kids.

With great effort put in from the community in some nations and even in two of the states in the US same sex marriage is allowed which I guess proves Edmund Burke correct, all that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. And robbing people of civil rights and treating them like outlaws to the degree that they leave their country is an act of evil.

And why is abortion a good thing? Well if you get rapped and impregnated as a 14 year old it might be nice to have that possibility and in general I think that if their parents believe that it's better for their children never to be born then I think it's up to them to say what's good for their children not for us. Besides something that has many people aggravated about abortion is that in Denmark abortion is legal but you are not able to find out the gender of your child since it's believed not to be right to abort your child because he or she was born of the wrong gender so they come to Sweden and get the abortion here if it's the wrong gender. And since you do not need any passport or anything to cross between Denmark, Sweden and Norway it's not a difficult stunt to pull off.
 
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How exactly is it easier to be discriminated?

Because it's easier to bitch all day about how discriminated you are rather than try to fit in.


From what I read, I understood two things:
One that being gay fits into evolution in order to avoid fucked up people to reproduce their fucked upness.
Second that women are lesbian because sex is better because of them being more sensitive. That's saying you are going against reproduction in order to eat chocolate cake.

Edit:
The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has stated "some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person's lifetime"
 
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And why is abortion a good thing? Well if you get rapped and impregnated as a 14 year old it might be nice to have that possibility

158487-albums5564-picture71031.jpg


Oh because all of abortions are from rape and not just stupid people fooling arround.

and in general I think that if their parents believe that it's better for their children never to be born then I think it's up to them to say what's good for their children not for us
Maybe they should have thought about that before huh? And no dont talk about rape because those are very rare cases. People should learn to take responsability for their actions, and not just flush it down the drain with the murder of their unborn child.

Besides something that has many people aggravated about abortion is that in Denmark abortion is legal but you are not able to find out the gender of your child since it's believed not to be right to abort your child because he or she was born of the wrong gender so they come to Sweden and get the abortion here if it's the wrong gender. And since you do not need any passport or anything to cross between Denmark, Sweden and Norway it's not a difficult stunt to pull off.

Very intresting triva about the scandinavians, basicly you're just culling the population like India and China, personaly i find this moral decay very sad but also quite intresting.
 
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Culling the population... that seems abour right since in general the swedish family has 2,1 children meaning that our population is increasing.

And yes in almost most case it's just two people fooling around without protection but many times it's not that simple condoms have a 99% chanse of working and anti-birth pills have a 98% chanse of working and since serious dieseses can be deected on unborn children today the amount of people with such ilness are becoming more and more rare in Sweden.

No I can't blame many abortions on rape that's true but if abortion was banned and someone was raped and impregnated what would you do then?
 
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And your argument that same sex relations simply exists simply to decrease the population does not really make any sense since they want to adopt kids.
You are a f#$&ing idiot. Adoption is not creation of a children, it's the transfer of children from an orphanage to new parents. So how the living f%@# does that increase the population?
 
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Because someone have to create those children and the majority of the adopted children in Sweden are not taken from any orphanage but it's highly common that for example another couple carry their children for them.
 
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Culling the population... that seems abour right since in general the swedish family has 2,1 children meaning that our population is increasing.

Its called immigration

And yes in almost most case it's just two people fooling around without protection but many times it's not that simple condoms have a 99% chanse of working and anti-birth pills have a 98% chanse of working and since serious dieseses can be deected on unborn children today the amount of people with such ilness are becoming more and more rare in Sweden.
OH SHIT A 3% OH WOW THATS ABSOLOUTLY NOTHING IN COMPARED TO THE REST OF ABORTIONS.Also have you ever actually met someone whos been born problems, both mental and physical?

No I can't blame many abortions on rape that's true but if abortion was banned and someone was raped and impregnated what would you do then?

Let the baby live, you know most of these abortions happen because the woman never had a child before and she didnt know what blessing it actually is to have a child. Abortions after the woman has already given birth to a previous baby are rare because of that.
 
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And Trolman is right, birth to death ratio in Scandinavia is negative, more people die than are born. Your population becomes bigger due to the inflow of immigrants, not due to natural growth.

Surrogate mothers are NOT common. It's a relatively rare occurance and for good reasons.
'Hey madam, could you please spend 9 months bearing a child that isn't yours in any way and then go through the joys of childbirth for us?'
 
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I still do not think that it's up too some random guys on the internet too decide the fate of other peoples unborn children.

And yes I've met people with both mental and physical disabilities and I'm not saying that any of them should be executed since all of them are really nice and hard working, I'm simply saying that it should be up to the parents of the children too decide their fate since they more likely know their position better than some random guy on the internet.

I think that if you're in the position that you don't know how it's like to have a child and you're not sure if this is what you want, than in some situations it might be better to abort the child than to keep it but as I've said about 20 times now I think the choise should be left to the parents and not Randomus Maximus on the internet.
 
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Well western Europe does not get to vote on the affairs of northern Europe so they can do whatever they wish in my opinion. And thanks Edhel-dur finally someone who backs me up in something. :)
 
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