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- Dec 31, 2006
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I didn't care to check if anyone replied to this, but you got a lot of your facts wrong.
I'll quote a possible conversation between you and some random guy:
"Some guy: If Bush had never been born then countless more people would have lived!
Elenai: As if the Great Leap Forward in China didn't kill people."
We would have pretty much everything you listed except the churches if religion hadn't existed.Without Religion, art, music, and many of the wonderful civilised, cultured achievements, like...
Sistine Chapel, various depictions of Venus, The Last Supper, Sicut Cervus, Handel's Messiah, the architecture of the pantheon in Rome, Hagia Sophia, Notre Dame, The Vatican: Domes, pillars, arches, and such, music notes, polyphony, pitch, a massive chunk of the dictionary...Oh I'll just cut to the chase since the list of things is exceedingly huge and I can't list it all:
Culture, Music, Sculpture, Architecture, Literature (Poetry, and Prose) and Art would be pitifully stone aged compared to the advancements in those fields, and the things inspired by them that we have now.
Metal work also...A massive amount of advancement in metal work (gold, silver, bronze, brass...sacred bowls, cups, plates...lamp stands...) gem cutting, and precious-material workmanship in general was used for religious reasons, and advanced because of the practice in those fields that religious devotion brought forth.
And that is just the physical side of things, philosophically, and otherwise...well, that contributive list is even bigger than the physical one...
I remember there being a greek guy, but anyway, at that time pretty much everyone were religious which means it would be very hard to not have a religious guy discover it. It was AFTER they discovered these things people started to question religion...1. In a world without religion science is no longer opposed by the ignorant
Ignorance is not bound by Faith, dear friend: I cite a catholic monk who discovered genetics. Also: Culture examples above.
War breeds only progress in weapons, not stuff normal people use.2. Science would have boomed and we would be 3 times as advanced as we are now
Culture examples above. And by sheer irony, all those wars you claim that Religion caused "if they didn't happen because religion didn't exist" via your example: IE following your scenario of logic...all the technology from those wars would have been years in occurrence: War often breeds Progress in technology.
I agree there.3. The Jews would have less cultural opposition(Palestinian, European etc) and there would be no religious terrorists meaning:
The Jews wouldn't even exist.
If it wasn't set up by the government themselves then it was Osama bin Laden and those guys. And they were martyrs (*cough*religion*cough*).4. 9/11 would not have happened
No, just another form of terrorism, like Soviet Russia stealing farms from the populace in the name of The State. Humans are the issue, not their ideals.
Agree.5. The war in Iraq would not have happened
No, just another war for scarce oil.
I don't know about the train bombings, but London would have existed and it wouldn't be smaller in any way. Just less churches and more buildings people can live in.6. The London train bombings would not have happened
London wouldn't exist, and if it did, most likely it would be a pale shadow of what it is now: Culture example.
Lol?7. The mass cult suicides would not happen
Why do that when you can just kill yourself for having no hope in the individual life? "There is nothing in this world for me! It is best I just rot! My genetics are inferior, no female would want to carry on my diseased genetic code! *shoots self*"
Still, the Catholic Church are the ones who do it the most, and it says a lot when the Vatican got their own DEPARTMENT for such things. A WHOLE DEPARTMENT.8. Children would not be molested by the Catholic Church
Or the boy scouts? Or any other organisation, or individual who molests people? "The Catholic Church" doesn't molest people, anymore than Walmart rapes women because of a minority of employees who hold down a girl in the dressing room to do the same.
I agree with Zombie.
Why would they kill themselves? It makes no sense whatsoever.9. People would have more personal responsibility and self respect because they would understand that this life is all they have and they should live it to the fullest
...no they wouldn't...A vast many of them would have killed themselves looong ago.
Oh, so it's religions fault that people are greedy and people start wars to get richer?10. More charity organizations would be opened and more money would be given to them due to no more churches raking the money in
Wrong: I agree with Zombie. On that matter, money wouldn't have come about for many more years without Religion: Due to the Imperial Religion of Rome, which put his head on coinage...
The church did it first.11. More taxes would be given to the government instead of to the church and the economy would stabilize.
The State, The State...Politicians, Politicians, those blood sucking tyrants. I agree with Zombie.
I dunno about this, but he (not you) might be correct.12. The Nazi party would not have been fueled or funded by the Catholic Church and subsequently anti-Semitism
Laugh out loud..."I agree with Zombie" yet again.
No one else tried, that's why it was Hitler. And it was his anti-Semitic view which drove him.13. Hitler would not have been inspired by religious anti-Semitic Nordic Aryan blood myths
No, someone else would have risen to power in the financially destroyed Germanic region, using a secular ideal, or inventing his own, which may have turned out to be even more brutal.
The holocaust still wouldn't have happened. Just because someone else died too doesn't mean that it wouldn't help if LESS people die. It sounds like you didn't care about those millions of Jews who died....14. The holocaust would never have happened
Just like the Great Leap Forward didn't kill anyone in China...
No it wouldn't. The churches are the ones who started it and they still continue to deny gay people from being leaders in the church. Only now do we allow gay marriage and not thanks to religion. The church has been against this all the time.15. Homophobia would not exist
I agree with Zombie. And actually, it would exist to an even greater extent: "Homosexuals cannot pass on their genes. They are degenerative to the human species. We must preserve The Species!"
I dunno about this.16. Middle eastern racism would not exist
Because borders, land, space, housing, and financial control of oil have nothing to do with it...?
I don't think it was religion which started this. It was the USA.17. Slavery would not have been justified and therefore would not have been promoted meaning far less racism and poverty in America
"You are genetically inferior, serve me!" PS: Martin Luther King Jr. A pastor, who spearheaded non-violent protest for civil rights.
Or without the USA, either one. And just like the one a bit further above, it sounds like you don't care about those people who died and that it doesn't help if LESS people die.18. The Spanish inquisition that tortured to death over 500,000 people would never have happened
And the Vietnam war would never have happened without Communism. ^_^
Interesting thing about the Spanish Inquisition, is that like most political actions, it was over money, land, and power.
Nope, those were to spread Christianity.19. The crusades that killed from 1,000,000 to 9,000,000 people would never have happened
Just another war for securing the spice trade. Interestingly enough, many spices were discovered and used for religious reasons: Culture example.
The witch burning was started by religion. Read a history book please.20. The burning of witches, homosexuals, the mentally unstable, and women would never have happened saving countless hundreds of thousands of innocents throughout history
No, just the destruction of the genetically inferior at the hands of Eugenic ideals that would inevitably spawn from a society where Religion never existed. And probably to a much further degree, since genetic inferiority would perhaps include le'gasp, not having blue eyes, blonde hair, and a perfect figure.
Also: The lame kid, the blind kid, and the deaf kid would be left to die, where as many, many, many churches take care of them. Alas for Genetics.
[cynical bastard] without religion those people would have died and AIDS wouldn't have existed![/cynical bastard]21. The spread of AIDS in Africa would be slowed considerably
They'd all just starve to death instead. Ministries around the world single handedly keep hundreds if not thousands of Africans alive.
I'm afraid Zombie and Elenai are correct here.22. The genocide of the North American Indians would never have happened
...Because space, and lack of timber, and resources in Europe had nothing to do with moving west. Nor the rumour of Gold. Zombie is again correct.
23. The genocide of the Central American Indians would never have happened
...Because space, and lack of timber, and resources in Europe had nothing to do with moving west. Nor the rumour of Gold. Zombie is again correct.
24. The genocide of the South American Indians would never have happened
...Because space, and lack of timber, and resources in Europe had nothing to do with moving west. Nor the rumour of Gold. Zombie is again correct.
Actually, the Pope himself started this. The Pope was the one who said sex was a sin and that women were inferior and all that. Before Christianity women were WORSHIPPED by men as GODDESSES. And it was believed that you could only contact god through them. There are still religious groups who worship women. I'll quote myself "Hieros Gamos anyone?".25. Women would not be as oppressed and sexism overall would not exist in such abundance
Of course! Because like all women in the Genetics driven environment, those who are not pretty are left to die, or killed...And women are just organic machines to bear young, and feed them.
Huh? If I understand that correctly you're trying to say that some atheists ATTEMPTS at killing Dalai Lama is worse than countless of innocents dying? I'll say this again: It seems like you don't care about people dying if other people die too.26. Fanatical religious terrorist extremists would not exist and countless hundreds of thousands of innocents would not have died
China, Soviet Russia, Cambodia, Vietnam...Atheist Chinese state annexing and trying to kill Buddists and the Dali Lhama how silly of me... xD These never happened.
Yeye.27. The Japanese would not have massacred, raped, pillaged, and tortured the Chinese or have bombed Pearl Harbor
Because Imperialism and the desire for land, riches, and wealth never influence decisions...
AGAIN, it seems like you don't care if LESS people die because there still are people dying. Wtf is wrong with you?28. The genocide of the Armenians by the Turks would never have happened
Another reason, another genocide, in a different place: Would have occurred.
Huh? How does NOT believing in a "giant invisible ..." sound a "dreamy"? It's the OTHER WAY AROUND.29. People would not believe in a giant invisible ancient Middle Eastern desert spirit in the sky who gives a shit about them
Instead they'd just..."nothing" sounds really dreamy... >_>
I dunno about this.30. Iran would not rape and murder innocent young girls under Koranic law
No, they'd just be raped and such because they are so pretty and genetically advantageous.
He wasn't an atheist. He was a FUCKED UP religious guy. An atheist isn't "muslim for show", and he wasn't anywhere near atheism anyway.31. Saddam Hussein would not have massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people
Saddam Hussein was an Atheistic Socialist: Muslim 'for show'. Basically, he was a miniature Stalin, who celebrated a muslim version of "Crimbo".
The war might have happened, but MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE DIED. There would still be deaths, but there would be LESS, AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS FFS.32. World War 2 would never have happened
Wrong, reasons explained above.
Never heard of him.33. Manifest Destiny preached by Van Buren in the Second Great Awakening would never have happened and the Mexican American War would have been avoided
Finances.
Again, you don't care if LESS people die.34. Numerous other atrocities would never have happened
Great Leap Forward, Forced Industrialisation...
I'll quote a possible conversation between you and some random guy:
"Some guy: If Bush had never been born then countless more people would have lived!
Elenai: As if the Great Leap Forward in China didn't kill people."