Heroes of might and magic

[Wazzz]

Okay, Order now. Mages are weak, but Gold Golems are slow. Genies have great spells, Nagas should apparantly not be overshadowed by them, but I don't like Nagas personally as they die too easily. Dragon Golems are by far much easier to get than Titans, but I think Titans should be chosen over them because they are VERY difficult to deal with, even as Might. I don't know much else about the race yet (haven't really played as them too much), but they can obviously use Lords, which is always a positive. So can Life and Death, btw. Lords are great to have, 1 is usually enough, but if you want you can go for a second one.

 

[Wazzz]

Nature. I don't like it much, but the Summoning Portal makes up for a lot of early 'mishaps' (wolves? They suck. Sprites? They suck slightly less. White Tigers? Lol suckage. Elves? Meh, decent ranged attackers, not durable enough for my taste tho). The choice between Griffins and Unicorns... screw the Unicorns, the Blind ability is a real gamble. Griffins are bulky flying units with unlimited retaliations. Very nice indeed. Faeries Dragons have great abilities, but what if the enemy is Magic Immune? Phoenixes are by far the safer choice and are very nice to have. Top them with Praying Mantises, and you got yourself an army. Not much else to say about this race, tho..

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I believe that's about it. What's your fav HoMM IV race, ppl? My choice is Might because 'might is right'

Truly, Magic Immune heroes that can take out entire armies are good enough, but you top that with devastatingly high numbers of awesome units like the Cyclopes and the Behemoth and you can not go wrong. Harpies are the best siege unit in my opinion, as they can easily take out any gate with their Strike and Return abilty. Berserkers are just fun, they truly are. They die first, but when massed they will rip through almost anything. Centaurs are good, too, bulky ranged unit, not so emphasized on the 'ranged' part but good melee and speed to boot =D

 

[trolman]

My favourite race is the Light.I aways go for knights cuz theres like 4 a weak (no lords) and if you use their charge skill well you'll find that no one lasts forever.I prefer crusaders cuz the monks are weaker.Then i go for balistas cuz they have nice skills and i allready have units to guard my shooters (those 1st lv mele guys with the mace forgot their name).

 

[trolman]

I dont like chaos cuz they're to weak and the orcs fail at shooting.Order on the other hand i like (2nd favourite castle) if you use your halfmen (or someting) to shoot you need mages to cast percision on them so that they dont suck.Then i go for mages cuz they're nice.After that i go for genes-frost bolt.Finaly i use titans cuz theyre just 1337.And i use all the fat,slow dwarfs to guard my shooting army.

 

[trolman]

With death i go deamons cuz the necromancety skill gives you the undeads.Devils are also very usefull with their summoning skills.Nature-i dont rally play but i go elfs-unicorns-magic dragons. Oh and hydra is beter if you use it right.

 

[Wazzz]

Yea, Hydra is potentially better, but Black Dragons are honoured as the best level 4 creature (well, apart from the obvious exception of the Mega Dragon). Mind you, if I could, I'd recruit gratuitous amounts of Goblin Knights or Gargantuans. Goblin Knights are fast moving defensive powerhouses with a 1337 attack to boot. Their weakness? Idk, they're not ranged?

Gargantuans are like level 4 versions of the Cyclopes, so basically AoE damage + Durability, but minus the numbers. I've never actually owned any of them, I've only battled against them. Easiest way to deal with them and Cyclopes's is to simply spread your troops

 

[Wazzz]

I'd have to disagree with going with Demons because of Necromancy giving you Undead. The Undead that you do collect from that are quite small in proportion, and the most I'd go with Demons would be the Cerberus in addition to the Devil (summoning Ice Demons? PRO!!!!! Teleportation + No Retaliation? WAIT AND ATTACK HAX!!!!!). However, Death to me isn't a great race, and I have to agree that Chaos isn't all that powerful for a race that prides itself in its power.

What's your opinion on Might, btw?

 

[trolman]

The might are strong warriors but they lack spells and thats they're bigest weakness.The Bresarkers are just totaly nuts they always get the biggest losses from all the creatures.The centars are good but their shooting sucks and its only good for shot range.The harpees are 1336 cuz they die like fast if they can be hit.The Nomads are an OK level 2 units with their speed and first attack or was it double attack i dont remember.The cyclops are just overpowered.The Ogres were olnly good for their bloodlust.I cant say whats better Blehmounts (did i write it right?) or the Thunder Birds.The first are very strong.The second are fast not as strong as the blehmounts but they cast lightning bolt when they attack.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I prefer Behemoths on account of what else I get (Harpies and Cyclopes), so essentially they act as a blocker unit as well as being capable of shredding the enemy apart. I always used to hate Berserkers, but I just don't use them in my main army now and leave them to defend, occasionally taking them out when their numbers are so gratuitous. That's what I love about Might, they can take out enemy units early on and afford to sacrifice some of their own in doing so.

As for the no spells, I actually think that's a strength. The Barbarians are by far the most powerful hero, starting with 3 skills. Also, instead of building Mage Guilds, Might can further boost all their heroes with Attack and Defense upgrades. I personally find their Magic Dampener to be 1337 as well, as eventually all your units will become anti-magic =D

 

[trolman]

Oh yeah forgot they stack (not just the 10%),But still they just dont match my playing style.

 

[Wazzz]

yea, that's fair enough. I find it quite coincidental that our strats for our fav races are sorta opposite lol. Like, we could probably both play as Might and Life competantly, but you prefer Life and I prefer Might.

I tried out playing as Life (as I mentioned before), and although I won (I've only been playing against Intermediate AI, because I'm not a great gamer, just a casual gamer ) I found that their tactics were somewhat tedious, and that the race itself relies heavily on Angels. However, getting Stables early is a nice idea to help with scouting =)

 

[trolman]

Yeah i awso play on a low level.
I never really liked having 100 heroes that scout the world.One hero is enough and all the army goes for him/her.Not like the 100 heroes where they're all weak.

 

[Wazzz]

Having multiple heroes helps, tho, especially when you're Might as you can get any Might based hero you want (mind you, why would you want the Ranger when you can have the Barbarian? MADNESS, I tellz ya! ). This means you can get the Lord for economics (my favourite hero for non-combat related purposes =D), the Barbarians for shredding through the enem, the Thief for scouting (not that I ever use them... -.-), or the Knights for their Tactics.

But you're right, why have 100 heroes? 1 hero isn't enough due to not covering all the adequate skills, but 2 is plenty enough, 3 is only if you want more than 1 Lord for captured towns. Personally, I find 1 Lord and 1 Barbarian to be more than enough. Any others are just for bragging rights if I'm pwning someone, or garrisons (as they can gain experience through protecting against sieges... or just being there lol)

 

[trolman]

Nah the olnly way i could have a second hero is if I fread him/her or if some n00b was attacking my castle and i needed all the help i could get,or if there are diffrent towns.

 

[Wazzz]

Mind you, the only way to decently level up a Lord is to leave it in the background of the battle, and I figure you may as well have a pwnage Barbarian to cover it while you do. Improving on Combat makes your heroes last very long (which is why I give the skill to the Lords after I'm happy with their Nobility based skills) and the melee and ranged attacks that they get through levelling up is priceless. Grandmaster melee and archery gives First Strike, Double Strike and a kick ass damage count that will make Black Dragons crap themselves. Add Magic Resistance to the formula, and your heroes are untouchable (although I like to see what items offer Magic Resistance before maxing that skill out, especially due to the Magic Dampener).

I find it funny how many people don't like the Harpy, but it is the best siege unit on account of the Strike and Return ability. At least people will underestimate it in general =D

 

[trolman]

I hate when my barbarian hero has max mele fight and 1st level archery,then he goes on a kicking rampage.
For some reason i dont like the combat skill lol.

 

[Wazzz]

lol, I love calling my Barbarians Chuck Norris and watching them roundhouse kick the living crap out of the enemy =D

Mind you, it is irritating having only 1st level archery, but when you get Grandmaster Archery your hero will be able to take on a heap of Black Dragons alone. Combine that with the bulk of the Behemoth and the 1337 support of the Cyclopes and nothing will get in your way. All other units can just be used to garrison your towns, that way nothing gets past your defenses and you just systematically hunt down the enemy. Also helps if you want an extra army to take out some nearby enemies, too =D

 

[trolman]

Yeah but you need a lot of levels to do that.
I think we've talked everything about h4.
Have you ever played Heroes2?

 

[Wazzz]

Yea, I found that to be moderately entertaining, plus it had some strats that never continued. Remember that Tax item that cost you like 250 or 500 gold every turn? I hated when I got that, but liked that I could deliberately put it on a weak hero with just 1 unit or something and let the enemy kill it off =)

I also liked not being able to upgrade every unit, for some reason it added some depth. I loved the Knights for their tactics but hated their weakness (double strike on Rangers was worth it, tho =D). I think everyone loved the Warlock, tho, because using Griffins, Gargoyles and Dragons proved to be op due to flying units covering the whole field in one hit. Sorceress was medicure, Necromancer was awesome, Barbarian was okay if you were bored and Wizard wasn't too bad himself. I might even get back into the game to finish the campaign

 

[trolman]

The bad items suck(i remember the hideos mask -1 morale or something)
Another bad thing was that all there werent enought slots for all the monsters and if you have the final monster you have to leave the first one.
Did you play the map Pirate Utopia?Its the best map,all the islands and secrets were just...I wish someone has redone it in an upper game h345

 

[Wazzz]

Hmm... I don't remember that one, which one was it?

Yea, I found the limit on the slots irritating at first, but it also means you have to think more about what you have in your army. Unfortunately, the Morale system dictated that units had to be from the same race in order for them to work semi-decently together, which meant that you were kinda stuck with units from one race per team -.-'

I would have liked Ghosts if:
A) I could get them, and
B) I was fending off Humans with their swarms of Peasants.

They were impossible to beat unless you had units that wouldn't die too easily from their imba 1337 attack

 

[trolman]

Ghosts were imba.Peasants fail.
Pirate Utopia you know.It was on XL and there were 5 playble castles (human,might,necromancers,elfs,warlocks)And you were againts the purple mages,who had controll of all the islands cuz they had teleporters and several castles.You gotta find the ultimate item.And in the middle there was a fire island and on it were some fire items and a rescueble hero.To the far south there was 'the end of the world'In it you olnly have 1 square to sail on,to the south its the end of the map,to the north there were mountains.And you keep going like this for some monts untill you find the Ice city (or something) and the locked Ice Prince.

 

[Wazzz]

lol, sounds odd to me
Interesting, tho =D

Thinking of a favourite race, I'd probably have to go with the Necromancer. Purely because Liches had the most epic attack of all. And Vampires were imba. Definitely an awesome race to be

How about you?

 

[trolman]

The liches attack animation looked bad to me.Like they were throwing a ball of dust and it kills things -1.
Favourite race i'd say the elfs.
Use the archers and druids for shooting,guard unit -the dwarfs.Fast moving ground unit-unicorns,recon flying units-Pixie and Pheonix.
That race was the most balanced to play in my opinion.

 

[Wazzz]

True, they were probably more 'balanced', but to what? Take the Undead, for example. In the end, it becomes a rush to get Liches, the only ranged unit for the Undead while being the only ranged unit with an AoE attack in the entire game. Also, Vampire Lords, having the flying movement which allows them to cover the entire field, had Life Steal (and No Retaliation, right? Can't remember ). Mummies were handy for cursing enemies while being a bulky tank unit (not too bulky, but it made the enemy's attacks very weak as well). As for the Zombies, well, you may as well block with them . Then of course there was the Bone Dragon xD

 

[trolman]

The undead just have too many tanks.Also witch's the shityest castle?

 

[Wazzz]

Witch's? Which one are you talking about?

Undead having too many tanks? How do you mean? They have great units, the Liches pwn anything that's grouped together and then some while the Vampire Lords and Bone Dragons will go across the entire battlefield. They do have a slow start, though, if you get the first 3 units before the last 3, but I reccomend speeing to either vampires or liches (preferably liches)

 

[trolman]

im talking about the skeletons,zombies and mummies-all tanks.
And by shityest i mean the worst castle.Id say its the human one.The peasents are usless,all the other creatures could be upgraided and that means theyre weak and you have to pay more gold,and they have the weakest 6tier monster-the Paladin,they're not bad but they cant match the pheonixs,dragons,titans,cyclops and bone dragons.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with all the critical points you pointed out just then, although I must say I like the Knights better than the Barbarians for some reason. Although I haven't played the game in quite a while. I just like the shooting twice ability I guess lol

Peasants were so worthless, remember when they made a revisit to Heroes 3? At least then you could turn them into Skeletons lol

It was always the Knights and Barbarians were weaker, but they came in more numbers. By which I mean the more numbers counted for three eighths of fuck all when it came to how the Well was programmed. Very imba. I mean, come on, +2 of all units? That means the level 1 units get 2 more to their population as opposed to 2 more of the level 6 units. Kinda stupid in my opinion -.-'

 

[trolman]

Atleast they can give gold in the newer games.
So what should we talk about now?Heroes 3 or 5?

 

[Wazzz]

Well, just 1 more thing about Heroes 2 Undead. Skeletons in my opinion don't constitute 'tank' units as such, but more so semi-speedy attack that can be massed. Still not much better than another tank unit, tho

Okay... well, when it comes to Heroes 5, my knowledge is limited atm as I have not really played the latest expansion much despite having owned it for quite some time :/

So I reckon Heroes 3

Have you played the Heroes Chronicles, incidentally? I love the story of Tarnum, twas a sad moment when I first heard he died in Heroes IV (which was while playing it, so it was at its most effective). Despite that, though, it was a happy ending to his tales

 

[trolman]

Dont laught but i never really past the big campaigns for some of these reasons-too many heroes,too open (i hate when the map is open,they just rush you from everywere),not enought time on the missions (end of that),special hero dies,battle you have no way of wining so you have to restart the map and thats mostly it.Plus for some reason i suck at campaigns,i win on scenarios and randoms,but i fail at campaigns.

 

[trolman]

Have you played the WOG mod?Its the fking best mod in the history of mods you really should.Its like the old heroes but with new monsters (dont worry the old ones are still there) more new buildings (really cool)
modyfied artefacts,modyfied skills like scouting for instanse.Before it just gave you +1+2+3 to the view.Now it gives the old +1+2+3 and the 2% percent of something happening when you go on new square like you find hidden resorses,artefacts,monsters that want to join and monsters that wanna fight but olnly if you want to fight them (no random attacks)You also gain a +1+2+3 rouges per day for your scouting skill,you can also thrain a spy and send him to another town to investigate and sabotage.Just pure win.If you havent played the mod,do it now.

 

[Wazzz]

I think I tried getting that mod at some point, but gave up in the end. Wasn't sure how to install whatever it was I found. But I really like the sound of it, even more so now, so I reckon I'll try again =D

Might even download the files with the mod already installed just to avoid screwing things up lol

I can understand the campaigns being too big, but when I'm casually playing Heroes of Might and Magic, I like big missions lol. If you want to play an easy campaign, the 8th and final chapter of the Heroes Chronicles is arguably the easiest campaign ever. You go through some pretty standard difficulty missions at the start, but later on in the missions you start off with the dwellings that sell Azure Dragons owned by you, and in addition to a pwnage hero and a specialty in Dragons as your hero ability, it's just win to have 1 Azure Dragon alone

 

[trolman]

I wonder who would win in a fight:1 Azure Dragon vs 1 Mega Dragon ?
So anyways the reason you probably couldnt instal it is that you need to change your regional options (from the Control Panel) to English US (the place that i d/w it from said so),then you install it and afther that you can change it back to the way itwas.

 

[Wazzz]

Hmm... that'd be odd that I'd need to change that, as I use English US... very odd...

I reckon that it's impossible to tell who would win out of 1 Azure Dragon and 1 Mega Dragon because of the stats systems being completely different across the two games. Mind you, if we were to compare the two together, I reckon the Mega Dragon would win every time

 

[Wazzz]

Mind you, I've never fought a Mega Dragon before, I just know its stats

How funky was the Conflux race? I personally loved it because I didn't see it much when I was first playing HoMM, but eventually, many years later, I got access to all the Expansions of Heroes 3. Mind you, now that I've got that out my system, the race has outstanding flaws and bonuses. Storm Elementals and, to an extent, Ice Elementals are great, but Fire Elementals and Earth Elementals (and their respective upgrades) were poor. Magic Elementals and Phoenixes were nice, tho.

If you ever got the grail as Conflux, then you had to do this: Energy Elementals, Magic Elementals and Phoenixes. Nothing else. Use Armageddon as much as possible. Phoenixes gurantee you going first unless you're against more Phoenixes

 

[trolman]

(so did u instal WOG?)
The conflux race was a balanced one,they've got 2 archers,3flyers,1 fast walking unit and a tank.Pheonixes are really anoying to kill cuz they keep coming back.Pixies,sprites,water and ice elementals are cool cuz they've got boobs.Air elementals are meh storm elemets are WAY better.Earth and Magma elements are high level tanks with an OK speed.Fire and Energy elements are a standart flyer and the Magic Element is ftw all over.

 

[Wazzz]

I haven't gotten around to installing WOG yet, I just started playing Heroes 5 Tribes of the East again lol, it's proven to be quite awesome xD

Magma and Earth Elementals are quite poor in my opinion, it took a while for 3DO to get the Elementals quite right :/

Fire and Energy Elementals are only really good in the Armageddon party lol

Magic Elementals are pwnage, even if they aren't used in the Armageddon party. So are Phoenixes. You end up getting 4 Phoenixes per week. That's op O_O.

Air Elementals are the strongest level 2 units, yet are only really useful when upgraded. Sprites die so easily, but can be handy. Ice Elementals are okay, but the Storm Elemental is better if you have Bless.

And that about covers them

 

[Wazzz]

Okay, so here's the ideas of using Stronghold in Tribes of the East. I've only experimented with this tactic so far, but it's really good. Basically, both the Goblin upgrades are needed, but you'll want more Trappers than Witch Doctors. You'll also want Centaur Nomads, Warmongers, Exectutioners and Untamed Cyclopes. This is all you need (to get a combination of awesome power as well as keeping extra gold aside), but if you want to fill up the army with another unit, I reccomend either the Earth Daughter (for the random effects on attacks, not really worthwhile, though, as they are a melee caster) or the Paokai (tanky flyer with lots of health and the scavenge ability, very worthwhile to have in larger battles).

 

[trolman]

When i play as Stronghold i go for the +armor and hp units than the +damage and nuber of attacks.I prefur shamans cuz they stop the enemy spellcasters while theres a small chance that the bad guys will pass true the traps.I also like the cyclops with there laser eyes just killin the enemys in line.

 

[Wazzz]

lol, I prefer Warmongers over the other ones (what are those? The ones with the maces ) because of the better armor and hp. However, when selecting my party, I believe in complimenting what I already have and what I don't have. It's sort of like Pokemon (check out Shoddy Battle lol, it's fun for a bit and only a few KB of memory required ). You want to construct a party that fully compliments each other, not create a party that's essentially a one trick pony. That's why I go with Executioners.

There's a small chance, btw, that the enemy spellcasters (and this effects heroes, too) actually screw up their spells, so I prefer to double up my chances by screwing up both their casters and their charging units. The Paokai are quite nice, but they're not necessary

 

[Wazzz]

Btw, I just remembered that in Heroes III and before, the only true way to get proper use out of your hero is to get it to learn spells . This sort of made it awkward for both the Fortress and the Stronghold. However, I do believe that if you placed less of an emphasis on learning more spells and more of an emphasis on learning the low level beneficial ones, you could have gotten away with using a Might hero that would boost the stats of its units in addition to the permanent stat boosts it gives off already

However, a lot of heroes benefited particular units with their specialties. Maybe I need to play the game again to grasp that concept lol. Anyway, I think that Bless is by far one of the most useful spells you'll ever learn. Top that with Master Water Magic and your army will be a very difficult one to conquer.

 

[trolman]

I dont play with the orcs much so i wont talk about your first post but it really is better (in H3) to have a magic hero cuz of the spells.
The best spell for me has to be....implosion.Its a 6lv spell witch means that not everyone could cast it,it's the best damage spell,If you have earth magic its eaven better,the olnly bad thing is that it costs alot (20 mana?) so you better have alot of knowage + expert inteligence and maybe the artefact called wizards well

 

[Wazzz]

6th level spell? Isn't it more like 5th? This is Heroes 3 we're talking about, yea?

I like that spell as far as damaging spells go, especially considering that the only units that are actually immune to it are the Black Dragon and the Azure Dragon, and like anyone's going to be getting the Azure Dragon any time soon

Mind you, I prefer having basic spells like Bless and Haste combined with Master Air Magic and Master Water Magic. That way, you can make your entire party strike with its full potential as well as have them charge across the entire battlefield. That's one thing I like about the Conflux: you are able to buy all the schools of magic for your hero =D

 

[trolman]

Or get those enchanter dudes.Theyre cool and theres one campaign guy who had the skill to turn mages and monks into enchanters,he's also in some maps.I think his name was Dragon or Dracon or somethin.Btw my bad its a 5lv spell.(i was wrong)

 

[Wazzz]

Tarnum had that ability in the Master of the Elements, too, it was awesome because Enchanters just shredded everything

Unfortunately, as I've found with all random casters, they're just too unpredictable to rely on, which is why I always prepare ahead with all the spells I need

However, perhaps even more unfortunately, the spells you get from the Mage Guild are just as random. There's almost no gurantee of getting the spell you need or want, especially with 4th and 5th level spells. That's why I prefer to rely on 1st level spells, if indeed any

I guess I'll conclude with stating that skills > spells

 

[trolman]

Well i guess ur right....

 

[Wazzz]

Skills always will be better than spells alone, especially with the skills benefitting spells, like Master Air Magic from Heroes 3 and all the different magic masteries of Heroes 4 and 5. Then there's all the skills benefiting your units, and in Heroes 4 and 5 there's the skills benefitting your hero alone.

Btw, in Heroes 5, I started playing the Tribes of the East campaign. You start off with a Fallen Knight ability. This is a really awesome ability and I do reccomend getting it, but only if you're playing as Necropolis. Basically, it gives you 5 additional Spell Power at the sacrifice of 1 Morale. Considering the Undead don't care about Morale, this makes the ability very worthwhile. To get it, you need Dark Magic and Retaliation Strike. Once you have this ability, your hero can get Weakening Strike, which casts Suffering or Weaken on any unit the Hero attacks. I'm not sure what else you can get, but I think that's pretty awesome in itself