General Feedback and Suggestions

[Vercas]

I see that you want to use the arrow keys for the camera...
I suggest using them for movement instead, and be able to so switch from camera to movement controll with the + and - keys.

 

[syltman]

I see that you want to use the arrow keys for the camera...
I suggest using them for movement instead, and be able to so switch from camera to movement controll with the + and - keys.

Is it even possible to use + - ?

 

[Vercas]

Yes it is. They change game speed in singleplayer and campaign and you can detect it by a trigger.

 

[syltman]

Yes it is. They change game speed in singleplayer and campaign and you can detect it by a trigger.

k but arrow keys are pretty bad for movement

 

[Vercas]

You can also change the game speed back with triggers in less than 0.1 seconds. Unnoticeable.

 

[killax]

Hey, I just watched ur newest video and noticed that if u shoot a gun the bullet follows you.. I think it'd be better to make it where you shoot and it shoots a bullet that goes in front of you and it is possible to dodge the bullets and maybe by a mistake hurt an ally, it would make it more realistic then a weird bullet following a certain person.

 

[Thyrael]

Ehm... all projectiles move in a straigth line. So if the targets move of the line, it won't be hit. Further projectiles will hit the first obstacle in their path, no matter if it is a tree or a monster. Because of the high speed it seems so that the bullet follows its target.

 

[Vercas]

Ehm... all projectiles move in a straigth line. So if the targets move of the line, it won't be hit. Further projectiles will hit the first obstacle in their path, no matter if it is a tree or a monster. Because of the high speed it seems so that the bullet follows its target.

And due to terrain deformation.

 

[Vercas]

Now, how's the progress to the Beta?
I'm giving up on hope.
An year ago we should've had a Beta of Everwood.
An year ago we should've had a Beta of The Dark Cloud... (Well, I had but some others didn't!)

 

[Thyrael]

The progress is good. I finished my exams => 7 weeks of freetime. We are allready working on the real demomap. You can see some WIPs in the screenshot thread. Most time consuming part is the creation of the different doodadsets. But after they are done, they can be reused in very part/map of the gameworld so the progress will speed up a lot when it comes to the pure terraining part. So don't be afraid, this is absolutly not dead!

 

[AKAIMAX]

Awesome Thyrael I have a question about dungeons and houses. Are you going to add mutliple floors too your houses and dungeons? If so, the wc3 system doesn't support it so if you want I may be able to help you make one. I started writing it today on Notepad++ cause I dont have the editor atm but once Im done, I can send it to you to do some testing.

 

[Thyrael]

Yeah, I know that problem. It would be easy to have the heros movementheight adjusted to the additional floors. Same for creeps/npcs. But the real problem would be, that there is no real way for having units at two different floors and the very same time in the very same spot. Or better it won't be possible without having like 100 regions and special area likes steps or stairs where the units can switch between the floors. Nevertheless without a custom attacksystem, the units would be able to fight through the ground. And the attacksytem in DW bases on casting abilitys. So you can for sure send me your ideas, but I don't think there will be multiple floors in DW. Or better at least they won't be found in the demo for sure.

 

[AKAIMAX]

If you want Ill post them here but there is a workaround to having 2 units in the exact same spot. Basically, you put all multiple floors into separate regions. Each region is a region that holds all the rects for 1 level. For all entered units, you create another region that is constantly updated that holds all the positions of units in different levels. You remove the pathing of all those units and with the region that holds the positions of the untis, you make it unenterable(making it unenterable means that you have to code for units that match the locations z value cannot enter the area which is the units custom pathing). With abilities, they all have to be coded and when applying damage, you must check the level of the unit and see if it matches the level of the caster or something like that(also do that when setting up effects so that they appear on the floor the unit is on). Im going to try to make the apthing system but I dont have warcraft 3 installed at the moment so all I can do is free hand and untested on Notepad++.

 

[Thyrael]

I'm not pretty sure, if I got your right. But having different levels placed at different locations would mean to have a loooooot of that areas. Especially when the map holds many houses, like the demo will.

 

[AKAIMAX]

Regions don't have to be squares, if you make all the second floors in each house the same z value, they can all be part of one level instead of many. That would make one region for many locations which doesn't lag as much as having separate regions for every location.

Btw, are you going to use RTC for the single player version? It would allow you to do a lot more and since its single player, it can work.

 

[Vercas]

Cool, and how's the programming progress?

 

[Thyrael]

The programming part is at a hold right now. I use every part of spare time to create doodads / textures that my terrainer can start to help me. As soon all needed base models are done, I can resume the programming and we work parallel. But for the demo almost all needed system are at least 90% ready. Some are complete, some not

 

[Vercas]

Cool!

 

[Goldendemon]

# cool
time to work x)

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

I got few Ideas for this project.
1. Driveable Carts or Rideable Horses, however.
2. Dramas, in the bigger villages or cities, the humans that are making magics or comedies.
3. Falling in coma, or whatever, just unit to fall in sleep, when is really tired...
4. Destroying Terrain, like cutting trees, and more, (but with bringing back them, after some time)
I got them more. Just say me if you want

 

[Thyrael]

I got few Ideas for this project.
1. Driveable Carts or Rideable Horses, however.

In future version there will be ridable mounts, but not in the demo.

2. Dramas, in the bigger villages or cities, the humans that are making magics or comedies.

I'll try to simulate civil life. F.e. having people running around in town during day, returning to their homes at night etc.

3. Falling in coma, or whatever, just unit to fall in sleep, when is really tired...

Intresting idea, but slowing down the regeneration rate between combats, will reduce the fun playing the game.

4. Destroying Terrain, like cutting trees, and more, (but with bringing back

them, after some time)

Destroyable terrain will be available, I don't think I'll bring it into the demo, but in later version.

I got them more. Just say me if you want

All kinds of suggestions are welcome, let them out.

Greetings
Thy

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

Okey:
5. Animated environment (doodads and destrutibles)
6. Unit's animation for Picking up a plants, Realoding crossbow, picking arrow, switching to another weapon...
7. Maybe windows in houses.
8. Multicastable items, example : a fried meat on stick(If you don't have weapon, you can use it like a weapon, or after eating a fried meat, to get just a stick, or like a bottle, like in DotA)
9. Damage-able Items in Fullscreen inventory, like in Fallout3 if you played it, or Diablo.
When you equip armor, or a weapon, when you battle, use it, it becomes older, and bader...
10. Weapon/Armor/Accesories repairing... for example: if you have 2 necklaces of same type, you can repair of it, to get the best one, same with weapons...
11. Natural ambient... i mean, that there can go a tornado, lightning storm, earthquake and much... (I get that idea, when i seen your real time change)
12. Maybe Inpleting the hungerness,sleepness,thirness system and the temperature system, like in troll survival maps.
Currently i don't have more ideas... I hope you like my ideas

 

[Thyrael]

Okey:
5. Animated environment (doodads and destrutibles)

Almost all doodads and objects are animated.

6. Unit's animation for Picking up a plants, Realoding crossbow, picking arrow, switching to another weapon...

The models have many different animations for such special situations.

7. Maybe windows in houses.

Semitransparent windows could be done, but I decided not to use them.

8. Multicastable items, example : a fried meat on stick(If you don't have weapon, you can use it like a weapon, or after eating a fried meat, to get just a stick, or like a bottle, like in DotA)

Interesting idea. I'll think about it.

9. Damage-able Items in Fullscreen inventory, like in Fallout3 if you played it, or Diablo.
When you equip armor, or a weapon, when you battle, use it, it becomes older, and bader...

Item durability won't be in the demo, but in the real game.

10. Weapon/Armor/Accesories repairing... for example: if you have 2 necklaces of same type, you can repair of it, to get the best one, same with weapons...

Also interesting.

11. Natural ambient... i mean, that there can go a tornado, lightning storm, earthquake and much... (I get that idea, when i seen your real time change)

Would be cool, but really hard to realize.

12. Maybe Inpleting the hungerness,sleepness,thirness system and the temperature system, like in troll survival maps.

Not int he demo, maybe in real game.

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

About Natural ambient (11. the weathers) you can done them like the triggered spell with infinitive cast range. Example: You trigger the lightning spell(Or just you create a special lightning model and use a create S effect) then do the rest, dmg etc... that will be a spell, and then, next trigger: every xxxx seconds of game time: actions: create dummy, order to cast a spell somewhere on the map... just do it leakless,laggless... whatever, I think you get it.
More ideas :
13. What you think about a pickpocketing? but only, if nobody is facing angle on you, in about 1000 AOE. And you can steal everything, but the you can me busted quick, busting will be based on thiefing skills...
14. Spells castable, like a custom missiles, if they touch the ground, they would deal damage there, if touches unit, they would damage him... etc...
15. Changing and editing spells in SpellTree. I mean, you can improve them, and deimprove based on points... like the AOE,DAMAGE,RANGE,DURATION...
16. Something like in gothic, a fast choosing other items, showed in mainscreen, the window where is hero... not just to everytime move into a inventory. Like in Gothic i meaned the window where you choose items that would be activateable on numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 you know, the weapons, potions and that. But you can't get numbers, just do it with left click or right click.
17. And if you're in inventory, maybe, to pause game... so they can't attack you, or not... i just say this, use it however you want.

 

[killax]

88WaRCraFT3, A lot of the ideasfor MMORPGs I get from Gothic too ,have u tried Gothic 4 Arcania yet? xD I wanna try it haven't got the time lately tho.

Suggestions:
: It'd be pretty cool to have a system where when you enter a person's house, if they aren't there you are able to take all the items in there, But if they are near they will come running at you yelling for help from guards xD, (They have this in all Gothic except for Gothic 4)
Btw, if u don't know, Gothic is a Single player game made by Pirhana Bytes, it's a really amazing game I reccomend it.

: When you do something bad Guards chase you.

: When running away from guards, if you turn a corner you can start walking by some people to blend in with them, (From Assasin's Creed)

: You need to build up reputation in the town to get more trust and have more privlages.
: (You probably won't do this one but w.e, it's for fun but probably hard to make) House building system. You can buy a house or buy a plot, once you buy a plot you are able to select from different walls/floors/roofs/etc. Pretty much A house building system, customizable houses. (I got this idea from an old game called Ultima Online.)

 

[Thyrael]

88WaRCraFT3,
Suggestions:
: It'd be pretty cool to have a system where when you enter a person's house, if they aren't there you are able to take all the items in there, But if they are near they will come running at you yelling for help from guards xD, (They have this in all Gothic except for Gothic 4)

Yeah I thought about something like that, but decided. I think it can be done, but requires a lot of work and isn't essential for gameplay. So I'll put it on the lower priority list of features

Btw, if u don't know, Gothic is a Single player game made by Pirhana Bytes, it's a really amazing game I reccomend it.

I tried Arcania, only the demo. Further I played Gothik 1, Gothik 2 and Risen, but never Gothik 3.

: When you do something bad Guards chase you.

Something like that is allready planned

: When running away from guards, if you turn a corner you can start walking by some people to blend in with them, (From Assasin's Creed)

Right now I have absolutly no idea how I could realize that feature. Nevertheless a cool idea.

: You need to build up reputation in the town to get more trust and have more privlages.

You'll be able to earn fame in DW. Depending which side you chose to play on it will effect the behaviour of people around you.

: (You probably won't do this one but w.e, it's for fun but probably hard to make) House building system. You can buy a house or buy a plot, once you buy a plot you are able to select from different walls/floors/roofs/etc. Pretty much A house building system, customizable houses. (I got this idea from an old game called Ultima Online.)

Smart idea, but really hard to realize.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Greetings
Thy

 

[Vercas]

Yeah I thought about something like that, but decided. I think it can be done, but requires a lot of work and isn't essential for gameplay. So I'll put it on the lower priority list of features



I tried Arcania, only the demo. Further I played Gothik 1, Gothik 2 and Risen, but never Gothik 3.



Something like that is allready planned



Right now I have absolutly no idea how I could realize that feature. Nevertheless a cool idea.



You'll be able to earn fame in DW. Depending which side you chose to play on it will effect the behaviour of people around you.



Smart idea, but really hard to realize.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Greetings
Thy

Gothic 3 is purely the best of the first three. I could not try the Arcania demo because my PC is too old. Mostly because of my shader technology, which is 2.0 when the game requires 3.0!

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

What you think, about creating a an monument place, where are gonna be statues, or anything, but that will be place for credits, a monument for everybody who helped you, that will be original way
I hope that you will trigger a lockpicking, not just a luck and lockpicking skills I meaned, that luck and lockpicking skills will make lockpicking easier, but you will still need to unlock it by your self.
Maybe item sharing, with buddies that follows you, or something like that, i mean, you give him weapon, but you take his and something like that... (with people like poor people, farmers that need food etc... you gain karma, that would help you to get better reputation like killax said ;D)
Maybe when you come to ladders, i mean when you interact with them, by pressing twice a arrow up, and then holding it, a hero is gonna move up, same for goin' down
If you have played Fallout 3 (i don't think so) it will be easier to know how to make house building system that killax said.
I will explain you(not a idea from FO3). You can (maybe) make a an pappers, that when you buy them, you get items(furniture), that can be placed anywhere where you want, but if you want, you can make it, to automaticaly be placed somewhere, and when you buy a another papper of another furniture of same type, you will by activating (clicking) on that pappers change the furniture
I hope that i gived some new ideas, and explained something to you

 

[killax]

In Ultima Online they have the "Paper" system u described, but they're called deeds. Example: Anvil East Deed <- u get a paper and by double clicking you can choose a position for it, but they have them different Directions .

More Suggestions =]:
: Weight system, every item has a certain weight and as your characters strength increases the maximum weight in backpack increases as well.

: Bandit camps. It would be fun having a couple of bandit camps around the map, which you can either ally and help the bandits try to take over the towns or be an ally with the town and help them kill bandits, if you clear out a bandit camp you are able to look through chests and storages in their camp and take whatever you'd like.

: Assasination Deeds, place citizens around the town that you can speak to that request you to kill someone, it could be an evil person or a person in the town such as another person (Tht'd be kinda easy..) A guard... A captain of a guard squad thats too bossy or something like that

Some videos you can get ideas from:

A never released UO map, pretty good made has a lot of nice ideas, the owner has given up on it tho... :/ (The creator is on this forum! o=)

Gothic RPG (U've probably already seen this.)
This was also given up on.

 

[Thyrael]

I hope that you will trigger a lockpicking, not just a luck and lockpicking skills I meaned, that luck and lockpicking skills will make lockpicking easier, but you will still need to unlock it by your self.

Right now I'm not completly sure how the lockpicking system will be implemented. But I can say, that your lockpicking skill will effect the chance of success and will allow you to use more advanced lockpicking tools.

Maybe item sharing, with buddies that follows you, or something like that, i mean, you give him weapon, but you take his and something like that... (with people like poor people, farmers that need food etc... you gain karma, that would help you to get better reputation like killax said ;D)

A party system would be cool but isn't planned yet. Would require much much work to realize. Will be easier after the npc scripts have been fininshed.

Maybe when you come to ladders, i mean when you interact with them, by pressing twice a arrow up, and then holding it, a hero is gonna move up, same for goin' down

Implementing ladders/ropes etc. will be a pain in the ass. For sure they won't be in the demo. The hard part is not having the hero using them, but the npcs and mobs

More Suggestions =]:
: Weight system, every item has a certain weight and as your characters strength increases the maximum weight in backpack increases as well.

For now you'll always have access to the full 30 slot backpack + 6 beltslots. But the armor your are wearing will effect your movementspeed. And your strength and the armorskill will reduce that malus. I planned that to provide a mage wearing full plate and being able to run like the wind. So weak chars have to stick to light armor(leather) or cloth.

: Bandit camps. It would be fun having a couple of bandit camps around the map, which you can either ally and help the bandits try to take over the towns or be an ally with the town and help them kill bandits, if you clear out a bandit camp you are able to look through chests and storages in their camp and take whatever you'd like.

There will be dozens of quests. And of course something like you mentioned. But there will be only 3 big factions so far. An indendent banditfactions isn't planned.

: Assasination Deeds, place citizens around the town that you can speak to that request you to kill someone, it could be an evil person or a person in the town such as another person (Tht'd be kinda easy..) A guard... A captain of a guard squad thats too bossy or something like that

Indeed there will be an good vs. evil system. And all of your actions will count in. The behavior of the people will change with your actions.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Greetings
Thy

 

[Vercas]

I'll kill myself if I see another bloody weight system!

I damn hope you have trade items and that most items such as herbs, ores, potions, beer kegs, feathers and everything like that will stack unlimitedly.

Edit: How about an unlimited "consumables" inventory?

 

[Thyrael]

Some items will be stackable, yes. But for sure not unlimited in number. I want to force the player to invest some time to manage his inventory. Unlimited stack size is much more unrealistic than having 5 potions in one slot. Ok, even having 5 potions each slot is allready unrealistic

 

[Vercas]

Some items will be stackable, yes. But for sure not unlimited in number. I want to force the player to invest some time to manage his inventory. Unlimited stack size is much more unrealistic than having 5 potions in one slot. Ok, even having 5 potions each slot is allready unrealistic

In my map I have unlimited items, and I call the inventory "magic vault".
You can do a swift trick just like this too!

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

Thyrael, about this big problem about "stacking" why don't you just use my idea?
When you got a fish on a stick, when you eat fish, you get a stick, and maybe you can just add a half fish and 3rd part of fish
But if you don't want this my idea, what you think about making your potions become visible a little bit higher from Portrait of unit. And when you press "1","2" etc... you activate potions. (this will be like a saving units ctrl+1... [If i am not wrong]) but you can make with F1,F2,F3 if is it easier

 

[Vercas]

Thyrael, about this big problem about "stacking" why don't you just use my idea?
When you got a fish on a stick, when you eat fish, you get a stick, and maybe you can just add a half fish and 3rd part of fish
But if you don't want this my idea, what you think about making your potions become visible a little bit higher from Portrait of unit. And when you press "1","2" etc... you activate potions. (this will be like a saving units ctrl+1... [If i am not wrong]) but you can make with F1,F2,F3 if is it easier

It is SO obvious that you've never REALLY used the trigger editor. Or at least never tried to make a system...

 

[Thyrael]

He's just trying to help.

Of course the belt could use the heroicons, but that will only allow 5 items, cause you can only use the F1-F5.

Using hotkeys like 1,2,3... for the actionbar could be done. But I'll have to force the player to put the buttons(which are units) into groups via ctrl + 1 etc. After that is done, he can access the buttons via the controlgroup hotkeys. But those data won't be saved and can't be accessed via trigger. So I won't implement that feature.

Nevertheless thanks for your your suggestions.

Greetings
Thy

 

[Vercas]

He's just trying to help.

Of course the belt could use the heroicons, but that will only allow 5 items, cause you can only use the F1-F5.

Using hotkeys like 1,2,3... for the actionbar could be done. But I'll have to force the player to put the buttons(which are units) into groups via ctrl + 1 etc. After that is done, he can access the buttons via the controlgroup hotkeys. But those data won't be saved and can't be accessed via trigger. So I won't implement that feature.

Nevertheless thanks for your your suggestions.

Greetings
Thy

I know, but what he said was really impossible.

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

Obvious: I am so angry on you "Vercas". Why you need to be so lame? I used the trigger editor and i know the functions, I just don't know vJass, and about you.

 

[Thyrael]

Please stop that discussion now and return to topic, thanks.

 

[Vercas]

Obvious: I am so angry on you "Vercas". Why you need to be so lame? I used the trigger editor and i know the functions, I just don't know vJass, and about you.

I know, but in vJass you can't detect more keys than you can in Jass or GUI. Still, why are you angry at me?

Edit: Sorry, Thyrael. (And you, Anes.)

 

[Adiktuz]

this project looks so cool... watched the videos and I can't help but look forward to this... its really almost like a separate game from every aspect...

 

[Jumbo]

I'd suggest you to darken the interface, make it feel more gothic and less cartoonish

 

[Vercas]

I'd suggest you to darken the interface, make it feel more gothic and less cartoonish

I was afraid to say it before, but now that you mention it...
I agree with Jumbo. An awesome map demands a more professional-looking interface, which, in this case, would be the Gothic style.

 

[keko4321]

not sure if someone posted that before
-this map/game deserve best story so i hope you find someone good at writing i mean really good
-i do hope we don't see any skill/item/hero icon from wc3 or any other map
and is there a chance to make multiplayers version of this ?
would be fun

 

[Thyrael]

Ehm... Darkwind RPG WILL be multiplayer... And do my best to create everything I need myself

 

[dark_wolf_3931]

Hi first I want to congratulate all of you for the great job they are doing. The game looks awesome with excellent quality, I have seen very few mods to the Warcraft that are so complex in the technical section and I must say that yours is the best
But unfortunately I am not convinced with the models, one can see that you have put effort but, in current times, your work in the models is poor graphically compared with all the amazing technical section that has been achieved.
In my humble opinion I think you should use like reference the models of the main screens of the campaigns of Warcraft 3. They have a very high quality comparable to that of WOW. These models as part of the Warcraft 3 so the can be used as is.
For example, for the male characters you could use like reference Arthas model in the campaign of the undead in "Frozen Throne" http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/15/14254/thumb_620x2000/main_menu_screen.jpg. The Orc could also be used as a reference for the body http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4938/untitledks2.jpg.
I say this because, from what I see, this will be the best RPG map of all the Warcraft 3 and me and my friends really like to play with the best possible graphics.