Dungeon Lords

[memnoc]

Cool

Okay, so I tried your beta.


The only real problems I saw was with tooltip typos. But that's not the thing you should be worrying about just yet. Overall it was great though, very, very, promising.

Suggestions:

Constantly I would accidentally click on a wall and then it's gone because my worker was right there. Making stupid holes where I didn't want them.
In Dungeon Keeper it had your imps take several hits on a wall to take it out (I think 3 or 5) but if you have multiple imps it goes down real fast. (You could have the walls be "flying" and have everyone unit with a attack made for airborne units, dealing always 1 damage. then the walls have like 3 or 5 hit points and no armor.)

Another thing wall/room related: Doors. Being able to build doors that take several hits to take down (but you can open for your minions) would be good as well. To make it more of a 'dungeon' instead of just hallways with open rooms.

I also think that the dungeon space you provided is just a little bit too small for 4 dungeon lords. Just a tiny bit, but that's my opinion.

Edit: Oh yeah, and sometimes its really hard to target treasures and what have you that spawn on the dungeon entrances. (Maybe make them have no selection scale?)

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

I agree at the small rooms. I played a game on battlenet, where i were the only Dungeon Lord. I used all the space before i got satisfied. Btw, the boss upgraders are nice

 

[M0RT]

Thx for suggestions, increasing space shouldn't be a problem, unless players start to build large rooms (rooms with ~50 tiles don't work anymore, becaouse of JASS recursion limitations). Targeting treasures on entrances could be fixed easily, but the treasures shouldn't even be there unless Dungeon Lords screw something up.
About digging, it could easily be changed to require more attacks to destroy the wall. Then I would have to add more spiders for each player, but that can't hurt. Additionally, I would like to add some animation, so that the tile won't just disapper, but I couldn't find any (I was looking for some kind of falling rock), so if you knew about anything I would appreciate that.
I don't know about the doors, I don't know how to make some user-friendly door-building GUI, but I just got an idea, that they could spawn automatically. I am already working on "doodads" spawning codes ( so far bookcases spawn around any room), so I could the doors (that will take some time, I will have to think about how to open/close them for minions).

Thanks for suggestions everyone, I have almost finished version ready (it includes minigames), I will just fix some minor bugs (workers sometimes spawn out of the dungeon and player can't play for entire round) and add some of the ideas from above (I think I will start with increasing the size, more will come later)

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

Theres a cinematic doodad called dust or something. Shows some dust and rocks falling down from above.

Pretty sure you can find the doodad in Underground/Dungeon tileset.

 

[M0RT]

And the promised version is out, I hope you will enjoy the minigames. It also contains lots of minor changes, e.g. boss starts with 30% life and regenerates over time, which prevents DL from building boss lair right in the dungeon entrance. Also, he regenerates only on certain spots, which limits his movement in the dungeon.
I increased the size to 24*24 and the number of workers to 3 (digging a tile now takes about 3 attacks). The dust animation doesn't really work, but it is a good start, It shouldn't be that hard to edit it so it fits better.

 

[falk]

Showing damage done in a floating text isn't a bad idea, but it's not cool showing the real number (77.040)
When creating the floating text, try converting the real to a integer so that when you deal "77.040" damage it shows "77"

 

[M0RT]

Well, it's not damage done, it only shows for criticals and cleaves. It shows an integer now, I fixed that couple versions ago, only the screenshot is old. I am going to update the creenshots some day, but right now I am focusing on the map. If anyone got an interesting screenshot I could use for the front page, I would appreciate it.

 

[wereguy2]

Minigaemz? Yai!

 

[memnoc]

more testing

Okay, I did some more testing (beta v1.13). These are the bugs{B}/suggestions{S}:

{B} Dwellings - Upgraded Dwellings cannot be 'converted' to be used.
{S} Bookcases - Make less bookcases (instead of just having each one auto spawn maybe give it like a % chance to spawn?).
{S} Cosmetic Debris - Maybe add some other random things to appear in rooms. Like bone piles, rocks, debris, 'cosmetic' treasures, etc.
{S} Atmosphere/Dungeon View - Here's how I noticed your system works:
> Tiles are 'see-through' and workers have unlimited sight (or REALLY HIGH) so you can see the whole dungeon.
> Heroes may sometimes be able to see the other side of a tile (the edge of a room) and get a new hint of direction to travel in
My suggestion to make it more interesting for the heroes to travel:
> Keep workers at the same sight, but make all tiles owned by another dungeon team that all Dungeon Lords are allied with with shared vision (Heroes are allied with no shared vision). Make all the tiles not 'see-through'.
> You may want to increase Hero sight a bit, and now they can go through the dungeon with proper vision effects.

 

[wereguy2]

v1.13
I love the destructible placement, as well as the new entrance and treasure systems.
This map is swiftly becoming what it was meant to be
But still, WOOD!!!
Work on the placement of different types of destructibles, as well.
If you need help with typos/tooltips, ask me and I could help.

BUGS
When you cancel the construction of a building, the room stays blightey, make that happen when the upgrade is completed.
I dont think upgraded dwellings can be embraced

 

[M0RT]

There is another bug about the upgraded dwellings, you can't upgrade them one you embraced them (embracing works as changiog owner), because only the "Dungeon"(shared player) has wood.

Bookcases/debris: I just started working on debris spawning code, there is going to be some junk and stuff lying on ground. The only problem is that I need to export/edit/import each doodad model I use, because the default models don't have attachment points! (And then the fire doesn't display on them, which is stupid)

Canceling: The problem is that when you start building, all other building slots need to be despawned, so there is only a single building in a room. If I blighted it after it was built, I would have to store the room information twice (first for despawning and second for blighting)

> Keep workers at the same sight, but make all tiles owned by another dungeon team that all Dungeon Lords are allied with with shared vision (Heroes are allied with no shared vision). Make all the tiles not 'see-through'.

If I understood this, you suggest that DL can see all the tiles, but once you dig the room, you can't see inside? I was trying to do that, but the marked tiles need to be hostile, so that the spiders can attack them, and then players couldn't see tiles they marked for digging, which wasn't nice (I don't think you can have shared vision with hostile player, so I would have to share vision of every single unit).

The information about dungeon is (or is supposed to be) very important, so Hero sight will be subject to balancing, maybe it will differ from hero to hero. (Btw. what do you guys think of the Blind Seer?)

Wood: I don't see a reason why DL should get more wood, they got an amout that is supposed to balance out the strength of heroes. If you had some idea on HOW to get additional wood...

 

[memnoc]

If I understood this, you suggest that DL can see all the tiles, but once you dig the room, you can't see inside? I was trying to do that, but the marked tiles need to be hostile, so that the spiders can attack them, and then players couldn't see tiles they marked for digging, which wasn't nice (I don't think you can have shared vision with hostile player, so I would have to share vision of every single unit).

What I meant was:
All tiles are a second team of "Dungeon" instead of Neutral Passive. (You already have the first one, and its the one that has the team resources)
This second dungeon team would have this for allies:
> 4 Dungeon Lords (Shared Vision)
> 4 Heroes (No Shared Vision)
> Dungeon
Then you make the tiles not see-through, and I think that your workers would still be able to attack the tiles that turn Neutral Hostile. Because something on your team has vision, and because the workers have aggro-range of "all" they'd still attack them, even if their vision is obstructed by the tiles (if they didn't share vision, and I think this is how it works.)

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, I got the idea the first time, but I still don't get what would actually change. You will still see the entire dungeon, wouldn't you?

Another thing, how do I make tiles not see-through without attaching Line of Sight blockers?

 

[memnoc]

It would change, because it would obstruct view for heroes the same way terrain does (and trees), so its a bit harder for them to navigate the dungeon. (And it improves gaming atmosphere) Although still be exactly same for Dungeon Lords

I'm not quite sure how you could make it not see-through though. Unless you can make doodads player owned.

 

[M0RT]

Well I think the entire problem is in a the see-through thing, changing owner doesn't change that (just tried that). I will try adding some LoS blockers

 

[[K40$]-Spectre]

I don't know if this helps, but try this option in the object editor: "use extended line of sight", I won't count on it though. Also, do you use dummy units for the tiles? If yes, have you made them buildings? Maybe some buildings block line of sight.

 

[wereguy2]

I guess making their sight range really short would help, wouldn't be very realistic though...


EDIT. Played with my friend yesterday, the rouge (I think that's what she's called) was immensely overpowered, and could easily wind walk past all my defenses and steal gold...
You should make the crypt fiends able to build things with truesight.
Also, you should make an alternative to killing the boss for the last piece of treasure. I suggest making the boss lair vulnerable, but very strong. This would make it easier for solo players to win, while it still being easier to kill the actual boss.

 

[M0RT]

Yes, the rogue is overpowered, originally she was even stronger, because picking up item doesn't break wind walk (I had to trigger that). Maybe I will add true sight to specific buildings, but If you could build it anywhere, it may turn rogue useless.
I don't know how making boss lair vulnerable would help single player, but it can be easily done (and It would be more realisstic, too)

Sorry it took me so long to answer, I didn't notice your edit.

 

[Zmore]

Not the best iv'e seen, but well.. keep up the work, might be something some day...

 

[Josemite]

any updates? seems pretty cool so far...

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

Well I think the entire problem is in a the see-through thing, changing owner doesn't change that (just tried that). I will try adding some LoS blockers

D: why do you do this man? you are blocking me, evil M0RT D:

 

[M0RT]

I was out for the holidays, and still got some work to do, but during this week (and definetelly next weekend), there will be some updates.

D: why do you do this man? you are blocking me, evil M0RT D:

I have to add those blockers, I know you cheat every time and walk through walls.. that's why there is going to be a LoS blocker inside every wall

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

Noooooo....


How about custom trees? Trees blocks Line of sight, and im pretty sure you can increase the radius they block.

 

[M0RT]

Trees and LoS blockers are both destructibles, so it's practically the same thing to do

 

[wereguy2]

But trees are actually DESTRUCTIBLE

 

[M0RT]

LoSes are destructible too, you can place them in their "dead" version! However, they are untargetable, unlike trees, which is the major difference (and they have 99999 hit points....)

 

[wereguy2]

And also invisible.
Its hard to attack something which doesnt have a model

 

[M0RT]

You could still destroy them with AoEs

I tried editing the dust model (the dust that appears when tile is digged out), but due to my limited modelling skills, I just managed to move the dust lower. If anyone here could edit the model a bit, It should look like the tile is just being digged out (larger amount/bigger stones, falling from the same height as the tile...).
Since I don't have any model editors, I was forced to edit it in Notepad, which, you can imagine, is much work for very low effect

Btw. I almost finished new decoration spawning system. You won't see a difference, but it is much cleaner code now, which should run much faster (and adding additional types of spawns will be really easy, id I ever get myself to do it)

 

[wereguy2]

Use the model editor in the Tools section

 

[M0RT]

Well I used the War3 Model Editor to convert it to .mdl, but it's kinda useless for actually editing the model (you have to rewrite all coordinates by hand), and even if it weren't, I doubt I could make anything that looks good

 

[wereguy2]

Wah, cant you just move them, I did it once and it worked

 

[peterrab]

Would it be too hard to make AI controlled heroes for computer players ? Or a spawn-hero function where you can spawn a hero of a certain level in your dungeon to test it.

That would introduce a single player version too.

 

[M0RT]

New version!! I updated many little things you wrote over the last few weeks, but I didn't manage to fully test the game, since my battle.net connection is somehow broken these days. It is marked as final beta, I plan to release the map asap (I suppose I can be referred as "playable" and all of the key aspect are working now)

I don't think I will add AI, I never made an AI yet and this one, with the custom dungeon, will be particullary different.

 

[wereguy2]

Nah, a non-cheating AI would be far too hard, what with the custom dungeons (as M0RT put it in a loltypo way)

 

[M0RT]

There it is, version 1.4b, where most of the bugs already are fixed. The only things that remain are cleanup (cleaning dungeon after each round), which is still somehow bugged and most important thing: BALANCING.
The game is very imbalanced right now, dungeon lords have lots of lumber, which they can't properly use. Mostly the game will turn into a crazy battle, where overpowerness plays the main role.
So, I am currently developing some kind of system for spawns, so they strenghen accordingly. Also the boss can freely move through dungeon and kill heroes just as the game starts.
I welcome any suggestion.

 

[Tleno]

I already gave you some ideas in maps section, now I have more:
Modes:
Minotaur hunt: First, heroes can do whatever they want, at the same time Lords are building dungeon. When round begins, one of the Lords is chosen to control Minotaur, who is very powerful. There is no timer, other Lords can buildeverything except Bosses / boss upgraders / treasure rooms and they need to protect minotaur. Heroes win when they kill minotaur and escape from dungeon on time. Lords win when kill all heroes.

Devilish machine: Lords are building a machine that will allow them to escape from dungeonto the human world. Lords must protect it (It apears on a random position) for some time until it will be finished, and Heroes must destroy it. There is no treasure, only as a money bonus, and no Bosses/Boss upgraders/Treasure rooms. Instead of them, Lords have Demonic generators that buff machine's buildspeed, but they can be built only once and they will pause building of that machine for a while if they die.

 

[M0RT]

Thanx for suggestions, the modes can be really an interesting variation for the basic game (although their gameplay is not that much different from the basic game).
More importanty, it gave me an idea: the goal of each round could be generated randomly, providing even more variations for the game.

I only didn't catch this part:

There is no timer(...) and escape from dungeon on time.

 

[Tleno]

I mean there is no round timer, but when minotaur dies, dungeon starts to shake, rocks start to fall, and timer "Time to escape" apears. Then Heroes must escape on time or they will be traped in dungeon forever.

Oh, and I would really want a giant fan trap. You know, to suck in those enemies and then make a meat salad. And maybe very powerful traps could be made just like builings.

 

[operationer]

The game is unplayable for the Dungeon Lords players now (1.4.2b). There's no hero chooser and digger, unable to start building dungeon.

 

[Shanghai]

can u plz give some more screenshots m8 hehe.

 

[wereguy2]

Just play it

 

[M0RT]

As you may have noticed, Dungeon Lords was rejected a couple days ago. I must say I didn't expect that to happen, but it has forced me to work hard on the map over the weekend, so I can present the 1.4.3 version now.

Changelog

- new custom font (it may seem familiar if you played DK II
- worker system - "smart" task assignment + includes auto-embracing!!!!
- tooltips for buildings and heroes greatly improved
- new spell systems - same effects but much faster map loading time
- pipes are spawning now
- only a single entrance

I hope you enjoy it. If you think it's ready to get approved, say so and I will update the rejected version.
EDIT: just found out that updating the map won't remove rejected status, so I will just keep updating there (link here, it won't show up on map list)

 

[wereguy2]

Ok, the new version was nicely improved, but needs more polish.
The new font, while looking cool, it somewhat hard to read, it is too small.
The Dungeon Lord Race selection tooltips need work, as the Primary Unit and the first two words of Seconday Unit are on the same line.
The new tooltips are very nice, but are sometimes awkward, with missed spaces etc.
Strengthen Boss is not set to automatically Autocast.
"collumn" is misspelt, too many l's.
The new Fiend AI is awesome
Make the minigames scaled, when less Heroes are playing, an Aura makes them easier.

Otherwise, it is upload-worthy

 

[M0RT]

Well it's true that the font is smaller, but I don't know if it's possible to increase text size for warcraft, so I would have to edit the font manually (If anyone knows some good free font editor...)
Yeah, I plan to improve the Dungeon Lord characters (include some new ones, make so more differences between them...), making nicer tooltips will be a part of it.
It's not set to autocast, but it still autocasts, right? It worked for me every time, just the autocast border animation didn't show.
The lich is playercount-scaled already (he summons more units with more players), it still needs round-scaling (it is sooo easy in second round, not to mention the third)

Thanks for your time

 

[wereguy2]

No, I think you should look for a different font.
Though yeah, I guess you could look for a font editor.

 

[TealNinja]

Pretty big predicament: When trying to play this with a couple of friends, it would screw up clearing a space for the entrance, and leave a pathing blocker there, making it impossible for the heroes to get into the dungeon. I'm not sure what's happening, maybe the file was corrupted while I was downloading, but it looks to me like it isn't killing the Tile properly before creating the Dungeon Entrance.

 

[M0RT]

I hopefully found a way to enlarge font, so this issue will be fixed in the next version.

TealNinja: Which version did you play? It should have been fixed in 1.4.3c (just played, this issue shouldn't appear anymore. Btw you were right, it didn't die properly (due to the stupidity of JASS: if you reference to a null variable( like GetUnitPercentageLife(null) ), it won't throw 0, it won't say there is a problem, it just terminates current function and goes on with game )

EDIT:: Just played the map on B-net, and I found a big issue: the "power" of the dungeon lords is too concentrated. I would need some mechanism that would force them to spread the units and traps over the entire dungeon, and not just guard the entrance with full army. The outcome of the entire round is decided in one crazy battle, and it is also very unbalanced. If you got any idea here, I would welcome it.
(Possible solutions so far:
1. There will be no entrance, the gate will lead to a random room in dungeon. There will be a problem with boss lair, but that could easily be excluded from the random choise. It would also force the DL to make some better dungeon layout, since then the "vulnerable" buildings couldn't be built in the "back" of the dungeon, where no one will see them.
2. other heroes: randomly, neutral "good guys" (much weaker than players) will enter dungeon at random points, destroying the stuff they find. That would force DL to leave some guard behind.)


EDIT: currently having some trouble with the drug system, if anyone knew how to permanently decrease attack speed and mana regeneration (according item abilities doesn't work)

 

[M0RT]

NEW INVENTORY SYSTEM
With the release of hashtables, I came to decision to rework item system a bit, the way it is is a slow and unclean code. While I am on the, I would also like to create completely new unlimited-inventory system. The basic idea is this: the equipped items won't go to inventory, they dissapear upon equipping, appearing as attachment on the hero model. This would clear the inventory, allowing heroes to carry up to 6 usable items.
However, it would require editing all hero models to unarmed (good thing there aren't that many of them) and a lot of time to work on this. Also, I would really want to use the hashtable, because it would fit perfectly for this purpose. Please post your opinion on this new system (I am leaving tomorrow, I won't be able to answer for some time)

 

[M0RT]

the inventory system was cancelled

instead, the game uses new guard room system (since 1.6):
Units are uncontrollable directly, just like bosses. The only way they can be controlled is setting the waypoint of their dwelling. It can no longer be placed anywhere on ground, but only to rooms. Every room has a limit of dwelling that can send units to it (typically 1, but guard rooms can take more, and boss lair can have no guards). I played the new version a couple of times, and it's now pretty hard to play as dungeon lord

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

Wow Mort, i stopped wc3 long time ago! Good to see you're still working!