dual editor

[GeEom]

this comes out of alot of talk , mostly by me, in reinventing the craft
it suddenly occoured to me that what i was talking about wasmore about SC2 than adapting wc3
the main relevent post is below, however for full comprehension you may want to read myprevious posts, if not the whole thread

"Project WarSoc" - Page 15 - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site

basicly it would let us take our fave wc3 stuff into SC2, and more

 

[Eleandor]

It's probably better to simply start from scratch in starcraft 2. Besides, the most important milestones in warcraft 3 were things like vjass structs, handle vars etc. Stuff like that probably won't be of any use in starcraft 2.

 

[GeEom]

missing the point somewhat

blizz never backed world edit properly, or atall
the big 'points' are that it will draw wc3, a no-longer profitable crowd, to SC2
for them
but on our hand, we could design an editor that is actualy perfect to use, and more
imagine importing any model file format you can think of, and having it automaticly converted to .'Sc2mod' and mdx, or depending on what mode you select, one of the two,
a GUI system that would actualy encourage new mappers, or even alow them to make Good maps, beyond templated TDs
a propper window into the interface, ever tried to correct every single automatic game text from gold / credit or whatever, or edit the wc3 style borders: im the only person i know to have sucsessfully removed the game clock, and i did once try to move the inventory so it could be scrolled, after at great length creating every icon to be the single opaque file, i basicly fell short of the profficiency needed to create interfaceable options that would stick with the screen & not effect the game

there are so many bugs with world edit, and shure maybe blizz will pick up on 1 or 3, but they will undoubtably create 100s more,
we know what we like, we know whats good, and we know what would be bad:
blizzard strategy genre games NEED a player comunity controlled editor, and this is the chance to actualy give reason to blizzard to let one be created, beyond the vauge promise it will make their games more diverse

 

[Eleandor]

I'd rather have them make the editor as it is now and add some kind of plug-in support, for example for automatic conversion from whatever model format you have to the sc2 format. What really isn't necessary for me is blizzard support to convert anything from warcraft 3 to starcraft 2.

The scripting language jass will hopefully be outdated compared to the SC2 variant, so you'd better remake scripts
The models in warcraft 3 would look absolutely terrible in SC2 (and converting wouldn't be easy because a lot is missing: bump maps, specular maps, etc.)
The sounds are probably already compatible (.wav and .mp3, I doubt they have made their own format for SC2)
The object data... well... We don't know how it's going to work in SC2 so it's likely that a conversion would be "impossible".

The amount of bugs in World Edit are, in the end, "ok". It's not that it crashes every few minutes or starts doing crazy stuff. In fact, some bugs have been a blessing making up for the lack of certain features. I'm thinking of the "return" bug in jass (the H2I function)...

So all in all, some sort of editor supporting plugins would be cool.

 

[LordDz]

Ye, try to make it a plugin.

Because: take this example,
Zephirs custom Editor
Warcraft III Unlimited Editor

Which one was used the most? Which one was the easiest to use?

 

[GeEom]

exactly the point

everyone seems so content,

if i were to create a dual editor it would use a freeform edit code, which are just stupidly easy and fun to write in, and could convert any jass into basicly anything using effect orientated reprogramming

you can all think of things which would be cool, and things that you like about this editor, and good bugs
if the editor can be player controlled you can have any bugs or systems you want

a mod for whatever they bring out will be imposible, because mods of the mods wont happen

if a standalone system is created then it will be very easy to create mods for advanced users, who want to view whatever the games script code is at every stage
for terrainers and map artists who want greater control and perspective within the editor
for the inexperianced, who just want to learn and create without doing anything unesesary

and a proper mod isnt possible because we dont know whats IN world edit, and wont know whats in the SC2 editor, unless we find excuse, this is that

 

[redmarine]

everyone seems so content,

if i were to create a dual editor it would use a freeform edit code, which are just stupidly easy and fun to write in, and could convert any jass into basicly anything using effect orientated reprogramming

you can all think of things which would be cool, and things that you like about this editor, and good bugs
if the editor can be player controlled you can have any bugs or systems you want

a mod for whatever they bring out will be imposible, because mods of the mods wont happen

if a standalone system is created then it will be very easy to create mods for advanced users, who want to view whatever the games script code is at every stage
for terrainers and map artists who want greater control and perspective within the editor
for the inexperianced, who just want to learn and create without doing anything unesesary

and a proper mod isnt possible because we dont know whats IN world edit, and wont know whats in the SC2 editor, unless we find excuse, this is that

If you were going to create such a tool then you would be creating an entirely different game. It would not be StarCraft II anymore.

 

[GeEom]

Warcraft 3? are we all warcraft 3?

frankly if i get down to honesty and ask me what kinda gamer i am, the answer is this, im a lazy, impatient, and incontent gamer
i own maybe 40 different RTSs, command and conquer red alert 3, hasent come out yet, id say its my most advanced, and i dont play it anymore
why?
its run out, did the campaigns, half way thru on moderate and then finnished in hard, played a few onliners, got cheesed of by the lag provided by the westwood system
warcraft 3 is a shit game.
it had soeme good campaigns, and is cool, but frankly the replayable elements, ie scenarios, have limited apeal
what people like us have made out of the game means that while crysis took maybe 70 hours for me to stop playing, i have over 400 hours of play time and atleast 25 fold that in the world editor,
we are not playing warcraft 3 anymore

now im hoping that starcraft will retain the incredible level of flexibility, im begging fate for the chance that it will be as good at customisation as this, because if it is, we get extra features to play with
but what about everything we will loose from wc3, its a very good system, and all the things weve had to make to fix wc3 to our needs, model converters, tools and the like

starcraft two is all very well, but if, when the actual *game* is done, it cannot adapt like warcraft 3 has, i know where i will be comming back to to get my games. here.
or maybe not, working on a more flexible 3D engine, and also im supposed to be working...

 

[redmarine]

frankly if i get down to honesty and ask me what kinda gamer i am, the answer is this, im a lazy, impatient, and incontent gamer
i own maybe 40 different RTSs, command and conquer red alert 3, hasent come out yet, id say its my most advanced, and i dont play it anymore
why?
its run out, did the campaigns, half way thru on moderate and then finnished in hard, played a few onliners, got cheesed of by the lag provided by the westwood system
warcraft 3 is a shit game.
it had soeme good campaigns, and is cool, but frankly the replayable elements, ie scenarios, have limited apeal
what people like us have made out of the game means that while crysis took maybe 70 hours for me to stop playing, i have over 400 hours of play time and atleast 25 fold that in the world editor,
we are not playing warcraft 3 anymore

now im hoping that starcraft will retain the incredible level of flexibility, im begging fate for the chance that it will be as good at customisation as this, because if it is, we get extra features to play with
but what about everything we will loose from wc3, its a very good system, and all the things weve had to make to fix wc3 to our needs, model converters, tools and the like

starcraft two is all very well, but if, when the actual *game* is done, it cannot adapt like warcraft 3 has, i know where i will be comming back to to get my games. here.
or maybe not, working on a more flexible 3D engine, and also im supposed to be working...

Blizzard has decided to support Scum Editor. It'll feature all World Editor's features as a hell lot more. Battle.net 2.0 has the ability to host campaigns so we're now able to attach maps together.
Never underestimate Blizzard's crazy ideas and ambitions.

 

[busterkomo]

Battle.net 2.0 has the ability to host campaigns

That's totally amazing. Hopefully I'll buy a new computer before SC2 is released (can only go so far on integrated graphics).

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I really want a graphics editor like Magos for Wc3.

 

[rover2341]

I Figure that, its still gona be better to do it the starcraft 2 editor it self.

But, if it means i do no work to convert my map over. and it happens to still run great. i would be happy.

 

[PimpMunkeh]

head to starcraft-source.com and see if you can find alot of the old QnA Batches that mentioned the map editor.
SCUM edit will be able to handle things alot of people fear it won't; for example, inventories, leveling, not to mention custom unit tables.
New options are intended to be included, like the mouse being usable in triggers (hopefully, a notion was made such things exist).

It has all the world edit has, only more.

The ONLY thing I fear about scum edit, is its unit editor. The stats used in SC are much different. A standard range for ranged units in WC3 is 600. In SC, a range of 12 is godly (thats the range of a siege tank in siege mode). The stats are much lower in numbers... does that mean less flexibility in that nature? who knows. But they do boast things like DotA being fully capable with SC2 because of SCUM Edits abilities.

Blizzard has asked several times what we wanted with the editor, SC-Source was such a site that answered. They took head to what was being said, and hopefully, all will be revealed in time.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

SC&BW didn't have a good editor. Although SC2 editor > war3 editor, war3 offers enough tools to make almost all things you can think of. So no, war3 should stay with war3, not in SC2. SC2 stuff with SC2, I personally wouldn't like it.

 

[LordDz]

I also hope there will be some way of altering physics force..