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DotA vs DOTA 2

Discussion in 'Dota 2' started by Pharaoh_, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Pharaoh_

    Pharaoh_

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    How much has the game changed, in terms of gameplay, since DotA WarCraft III map?

    What do you like in DOTA 2 (as a game and as opposed to DotA 1) and what do you dislike?
     
  2. BlinkBoy

    BlinkBoy

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    Changes

    I really feel Valve just farmed the original idea for money. It's pretty much the same with new graphics and some changes to hero abilities and fog mechanics.
     
  3. Kino

    Kino

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    I don't see how they could have done otherwise.
    DotA's playerbase is well known for very hostile kneejerk reactions toward any change no matter how large or small.
     
  4. Love Seeker

    Love Seeker

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    I just like Models, Icons, Systems and bla bla bla. But I don't like Developer, always updating =_=
     
  5. Ezekiel12

    Ezekiel12

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    You might not be too deep into DotA, but for ~90% of DotA players that was exactly the point. They want a game thats basically the same.
     
  6. BlinkBoy

    BlinkBoy

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    well I started playing it back on 2005 and I really expected Dota 2 to bring something new/different. obviously keeping the same "hardcore" formula.
     
  7. Ezekiel12

    Ezekiel12

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    2005 is a long time ago but I can not deduce from that how much you played or how knowledgeable you are about the whole environment. Please mind that I did not mean to put you down in any way.

    For me it was the logical step Valve had to do, as wc3 DotA had a massive player base and needed an own platform/update to be able to reach even greater masses (and very importantly also mass media) and generate a huge load of money. Additionally Valve got IceFrog, the best starting advertisement you can get for an overhauled DotA 1. To draw over pros and masses, not splitting the player base and actually making a good game taking the old one as a guide you make a successor rather than a new game.

    The big mistake they made is starting so late and being so slow. Would DotA 2 have been ready in 2010 it would be a much larger hit today, as mostly LoL took so many potential players.
     
  8. jonhysone

    jonhysone

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    Pros of DotA WC3 :
    - The original idea which is based mainly on AoS SC3, but with new gameplay and everything
    - Multiple heroes, let's say you won't get bored.
    - Mush Items, sush variance, wow.
    Cons of DotA :
    - Many bugs , especially when two cast two spells to each other, it really sucks sometimes. For example: Silencer silences riki and riki smokes the place, both should lose abilities, no they don't.
    - Fog bugs, much more.
    Pros of DotA 2 :
    - Better graphics
    - New Heroes
    - New Gameplay improvements.
    Cons of DotA 2 :
    - It's not a new idea as well as League of Legends, they both stole idea.
    - They should have kept some old famous heroes and added the new ones at least.
    - Omg it is updated almost everyday, screw it.
    - Dota 1 update is 8 mb, while dota 2... screw it.
    - It's always 5v5, they should've added two new slots at least.
     
  9. BlinkBoy

    BlinkBoy

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    Hmn LoL did make some things of their own, plus it was made by the creator of dota all-stars, aka Guinso. I really liked loL's approach atleast from a design point of view. Many Dota players look at it as casual due to the fact that it has no denies and it's less punishing. In my own opinion, that reduced the game's intensity and also made people take the game less seriously, except in ranked.

    I played Dota for 5 years, LoL for 2 years and really got bored due to the long games, the laning phase (last hitting may be skill and all, but it's boring for me) and the community. I really hated show offs that sucked and blamed everything on the team. I also hated the idea of banlists in the original dota even though I never got banned, thanks god that was changed in DotA 2 to a less biased system.

    I'm looking forward more into HotS now. I really love the meta blizzard has made. specialy the talent system, it solves the old problem that the Item system in both DotA and loL had. Item balance was one of the biggest problems. I also love the fact they provide multiple maps, it feels more like a merge of MOBA style games and Starcraft macro strategy and obviously the short games. I'm no longer a teenager so I have few time to play.
     
  10. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

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    It was weird making the jump to Dota 2, but after the adjustment period I'm all for it. The updated systems make the game breezier and more user friendly, and its all wrapped in a pretty package of slick graphics.

    My only complaint is that I am still lacking pitlord. Also ranked is a joke.
     
  11. Hemske

    Hemske

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    I like the way they've done Dota 2. It is beautiful, and for most of the heroes they've really managed to capture their very soul and looks.

    However, I got the feeling the community has almost ruined Dota 2 for me completely. That is not Valve's fault, most likely only the fact that people nowdays are, well, despicable. Especially on the internet.

    My biggest complaint about it is the latest way the game seem to be heading. Every patch is like 200mb, and 197 mb of those is cosmetics and items. I don't want my Dota 2 to be over 25gb, it's ridiculous. Some of the latest cosmetics are also getting out of hand. They no longer care to keep the same color scheme as the original hero's looks, and they've changed abilities to look like something of a whole other hero.
    Sure you usually see what hero and realize what spell it is, but that can lead to like a 0.5 second of hesitiation and that stuff can be devastating in a game like Dota.

    I've actually been playing more LoL than Dota 2 lately, as it seems less punishing when you lose, and I also like the way how you have to aim all the abilities and such, you need to think with every spell rather than throw in a Sven Stun and hope it hits good.

    But now that the new Dota 2 patch has arrived, things will change quite drastically. I believe it might be very different, so perhaps I'll enjoy Dota 2 more, we shall see.
     
  12. Sunreaver

    Sunreaver

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    One thing I hate about Dota 2 is the models others are fine. I just hate those ugly and freaking Magina(looks like a bald bastard), Slark and Gyrocopter. Lunars tiger is so stupid looking, lazy and sleepy to me. Models I only accept is the Silencer, Queen of Pain, And
     
  13. BlinkBoy

    BlinkBoy

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    I'll talk from an artist's point of view

    one thing that really shocks me about dota 2 is that it's a bit harder to distinguish or highlight heros. it's a bit confusing compared to dota 1, where atleast some heros had glow or you could distinguish them easily on sight. It's more that i feel the art is not contrasting correctly heros from theme. LoL also has this problem but not as much as the creeps in LoL are very contrasting so it feels easier to distinguish things. In dota 1 there were bright teamcolors atleast so it was easy to recognize things. Dota 2 lacks this artistic contrast. I think Sc2 had issues of unit contrasting at alpha stage too. They fixed that by doing 2 things, reduce teamcolors (way too much) and defining racial and unit themes better and changing the way they used shaders. For instance, protoss use more self illumination, terrans used more edge defining specularity and zergs depend more on shading and smoother specularity.

    Talking artisticly, i feel Dota 2 rushed their hero design too fast and some heros don't feel that well designed in artistic terms. It obviosly shows how little experience Valve had with RTS games (dota is ARTS/MOBA a subgenre), compared to blizzard where wc3 artistic themes were very clear for each unit. (7 years development does make a difference, the polish is extremely important from an artistic point of view)

    Dota 2, however, does some things correctly. Heroes in general are darker on botton and brighter on top, this helps contrast them for a top view. Also, I think Dota 2 started better in defining an artistic theme than LoL, where they are struggling to standarized their art right now.
     
  14. Rui

    Rui

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    The costumer is always right, heh?
    There was plenty to be done. DotA 1 just stuffed in more and more heroes without balancing them properly or giving them all mechanics and abilities that require skill to use. I'll leave this to the sticky thread, however.

    I agree. The lack of creep denial was a letdown for me.

    I can fully attest for DotA 2 community being pretty terrible. Also, maybe it's just the times changing, but even though I remember DotA 1 players being flammer brats, it ended up being fun because of how ridiculous they were. StarCraft II and DotA 2 players though... it's horribly frightening how they keep attempting to push their broken logic into you and how (especially in DotA 2) they're totally beyond help.
    As for LoL, I played a few games against bots and then 1 or 2 real matches. I met an occasional flamer, but, perhaps due to never going beyond some starter bracket, I felt the community was much more friendly. For instance, just the first time I played Tarik, I had no idea what I was doing or if I was even purchasing the correct gear, but still I received a complement and one or two of those "commends" at the end of the game. I remember getting quite a few during the time I was there. In DotA 2, after hundreds of games, I have around 50 commends or so.

    The lack of banlists is okay, but DotA 2 really needs a surrender option. Especially to stop people from feasting on the pool.

    Agreed. =P The first time I played DotA 2 was a huge confusion. I remember letting an enemy Sand King pass by me because I had no idea he was an enemy xD.
     
  15. Hemske

    Hemske

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    I think everyone who longs for a surrender option should just let it go. There is never going to be one. Valve has explicitly stated that.

    However, they did buff the fountain in this latest patch, so the spawn-killing will basically cease now. (it is now uphill, it got longer range, and bigger aoe for true sight)
     
  16. David

    David

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    Valve did a great job of replacing dota 1 with dota 2. Its a masterpiece and for me the best game of all time~huehue. Great graphics, loads of fun, internationals with 10 millions of dolars. Plus you can't forget the unforgetable russians. I mean learning russian from a game is bloody impressive. Cyka.
     
  17. Dr. E

    Dr. E

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    I think that last patch makes biggest changes on game, since by impacting economy of the game, it drastically changes in game mechanics. And by changing that, since armor type and dmg changes doesn't have effect on dota they made a change that impacts the game more than any other since dota 2 went out. The influence of almost all heroes on the winning or losing the game has changed, and if they want to balance that they shoud seriously buff early game heroes, and/or give them more late game presence which would also change the momentary concept of the game since division of heroes to late/mid/early game was the most accurate one. But now all early game heroes are only worth to be played as supports, and buying supportive items is now the way of game-play that benefits the team most from them, and mid game heroes can't be strong carries anymore. Personally, I think that all things are good except that exp/gold balance change, which could also be good if they found another way which early game heroes could influence the game more instead of snowballing. A lot of people that I know have stopped playing or play less often because of that. Mistakes are now punished much more severely which sounds good, but that's only true if they are made by better team, and in late game. If the team that is worse makes mistake that mistake is much much much less noticeable and has much less impact on the game, so as mistakes in early game are. That makes farming, supporting, laning phase, picking, item builds and other strategic elements of the game much less important than they were. if you don't want to take altest patch into consideration i think that both games are pretty much the same, although some things are different in DotA 2 because of the way of realization of spells that were made on one game engine on another, except in dota 2 everything is somewhat slower, like the map and units are bigger but they ms is the same ...
     
  18. Rui

    Rui

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    Really? I agree to the latest part: heroes looking bigger, but for me it makes me feel like the space is tighter and therefore that things are running faster.
     
  19. Gismo359

    Gismo359

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    ^This.

    Also, lets not forget that Icefrog is working for Valve as a lead designer, so the changes should be with his agreenment. That being said, I dislike some of those, mainly the style of some heroes making them unrecongnisable (although I understand its for copywrite reasons, but it still drives me mad). I still think that the whole deal with the dota-allstars site was a d!ck move by pendragon >_<.
     
  20. Dr. E

    Dr. E

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    I'm not sure, but i heard that Icefrog isn't lead designer anymore, at least unofficialy. When i sayed everything is slower i was thinking about animations. But it could be that they are just easier to spot because of better graphics. Like i mean in dota on wc3 it was much much harder to last hit creeps at least for me, like really everything is slower for 10 % all projectiles, arrows, Hp bar is bigger and that