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Demigod

Discussion in 'Gamer's Hub' started by syltman, May 21, 2009.

  1. shiiK

    shiiK

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    First of; I stated quite clearly that I do not have trouble with lag- I run a clocked @3.0GHz Quad Core processor, a XFX GTX280 graphics card, as well as 6GB of RAM on a 64-bit Vista. Trust me, I don't lag. What I am saying is that Demigod has a design that allows it to look like Quake Arena, or any other really old game, at low graphics, yet lag on perfectly fine computers that run UT3, Crysis and several other, quite new games smoothly. The PC I described in my former post runs Crysis just fine, no lag and playable fps, while when you run Demigod on low graphics (looking way worse than Crysis and with a lot less terrain detail) it lags and runs down at 10 fps or worse. And don't come with the excuse it's online, 'cause we played it in single player.

    As for P2P, 'good internet' is defined by if you can play P2P or not? Seriosuly, the only thing I need P2P for is Demigod. I've got a 25mbit line, but it's a university line, and they don't allow P2P for several reasons. A lot of ISPs in Europe do not allow a lot of P2P anyhow. It's not bad to not have P2P, it's optimistic to even attempt using it and expect a lot of players.

    The balance might be worked on, but it still is rather unbalanced. Sedna being my prime example. High damage output, high healing potential, good support in addition to being a general and thereby able to use minions. She can't be balanced by tweaking the numbers, she needs to be completely remade. Not to mention the items, if you save up 8000 gold and purchase an artefact before the other team, you've won. Simple as that.

    Name me a DotA hero that is a clone of another DotA hero. If you know any, I'm sure you haven't played them.

    Indeed, DotA is one map. Bear in mind though, it's one detailed, large map. There's a lot to learn about the DotA map. Secret paths, line of sight blockers, quick escape routes. In Demigod, there are non-existent. The line of sight is a permanent circle in which it reveals everything. The maps in Demigod are no challenges, they are leanrt throughout in 10 minutes maximum. That means what 80 minutes for all? I never counted them, but it's not exactly many of them.

    Besides, the game-types in Demigod are not really game-types, they are victory conditions, and are partitions of the full game, Conquest. DotA features a more variated gameplay with various modes; -mm, Mirrored Mode, -dm, Death Match, -cm, Captains Mode, -em, Easy Match plus variations in difficulty that does not only affect gold income, experience gain and creep/minion strength; -sc, Super Creeps, -id, Item Drop .. etc

    Content is fine, sure, for a game you play through overnight. After 2 months without any new content (and with as little as it is now), I am sure everyone has tried everything and there's nothing they don't know about each of the Demigods or what each item does.

    Well, if you got into it right away, you've got previous experience with AoS. I had no trouble getting into it, it's a simple game, a mixture of UT3:Warfare and an AoS. Capture and hold nodes, destroy the enemy base, survive. Though for anyone that has tried nothing like it, there's little help getting into it. Not to mention you can't learn from others because you can't see what items they build f.ex.

    Wait wait, fast-paced? Demigod? You got some speed-hack nodging up movement speed, lowering building hitpoints and also ability cooldowns? Demigod is slow motion. Agreeable, DotA has a slow warm-up phase, but seriously, the mid-game and end-game is way more fast-paced than Demigod, even if you lag at Demigod. I never get any action feeling out of Demigod, and I never manage to die unless I do silly things. That might be because all I got is the damn bot, and whatever difficulty level, it's a dumpstruck sheep at playing. The only advantage it has is more gold, more XP.. it's not helping when it can't play and dash of spells at random.

    There's a story in Demigod? Pardon me, but I did not know. How do I find it? Is there a document in the game folder? All I see is warfare, random Demigods versus more random Demigods fighting in an arena. There's no more story in Demigod than in UT2K4. DotA has no storyline either, it evolves around an epic battle, with heroes that have stories, and the fight has a purpose, in difference to Demigod. Besides, DotA is not a full game. It's one single map, one scenario. One more scenario than Demigods though.
     
  2. syltman

    syltman

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    http://www.demigodthegame.com/mythology/
    http://www.demigodthegame.com/origins/

    edit: The game is pretty balanced to me.
     
  3. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Well the fact is a single core and a 9800 makes little sense. One is from 2008 and the other is from 2003.

    Crysis is graphically demanding, CPU wise not so much except in extreem physic situations, so ofcouse a single core can cope.

    Demigod is CPU demanding, and needs a better CPU than GPU to run well. Even at low, the CPU demand is pretty high as it still has to do the engine calculations so ofcourse it runs poorly on a slow processor. First rule of thumb is never compare a RTS game (the engine for demigod is RTS as far as multiple units and movment) to a FPS. FPS do not need near at all that much processing power as there are atmost a dozen units at once having to be moved, while RTS move all units all the time. Thus all in all, I am prety sure a 7800 with a dual core would run the game a lot better with less lag than the 9 series with a single core.

    As you can see, your quad core runs the game prefctly with no lag. I am sure the same results would be obtained even with a 9800. Just because it is a modern RTS is not an excuse to say it has steep demands as RTS games will always need a better processor than FPS to run well.

    Also, with such a GPU as the one described, you should have been able to run it with high textures with the same FPS as the CPU was capping it.

    Anyway, just forrget about it and enjoy your new PC, I have to admit the geforce 200 series is pretty kick ass power wise.
     
  4. shiiK

    shiiK

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    Alright, I'll compare it with an RTS, the same single core computer runs Red Alert 3 smoothly, with high player and unit amounts. The fall-back there is the RAM. Besides, the CPU is not from 2003, but from summer 2005, it's an AMD which is why the clock is so low.

    It has steep demands for such a low unit count, and the kind of game it is. Unless they enable map making, the unit count will never reach high amounts like RTS games in Demigod. The FPS was significantly better with low graphics.

    It's not a new PC the one I have either, and the example here is not mine. The Quad Core is more than a year old. Anyhow, yeah the 200-series are great, just they're damn expensive compared to other cards, namely the Radeon HD 4870X2 which was at the time near half the price of the GTX280.
     
  5. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    I think you under estimate how much game design has changed over years.
    Before games were designed for single core support with optional multi core functionality, now it is the opposite.

    The whole problem with single cores is the time splicing that they under go to allow more than one thread to run at a time (well appear to run, as physically only one thread can be run at a time). Although this does enable them to run games even targeted for multi cores (as long as the instruction set is supported), it results in uneven time distribution. Syncronization probably results in lost time as well and low FPS might occur due to sporadic bursts or poor thread piroity. This does not count the fact that about 2% of the CPU time can be hogged by background apps as well which need an even share of time. Old games were designed to be prety much single threaded which meant the CPU was eithor working on processing the game in a linear way, or it was doing background stuff. Later they added some threading capability for physics in games like TES oblivion, but those were scalable to accomidate single cores as they were an excess task.

    Nowdays, for efficency, the game engines are muti threading. This means that inorder for the game to advance, multiple threads have to be executed to a certain extent. Single cores can not cope well with that as the kernal probably overloads and you start to get wasted time. Multi core CPUs automatically have an advantage as they are designed to handle threads better, so you probably find they syncronize and stuff much better. Also as you have atleast 2 threads running at once, statistically atleast one of them will always be working on the game, thus even if they are slower when standing alone, the game will progress at a constant rate. At times atleast 2 threads of the game will run so it will progress faster with it and probably suffer less from syncronization between the threads. With even more processors there is even less time splicing and more parts of the game advance at once, resulting in a better flow.

    In the end, single cores do not cut it for games comming out in this day and age. Yes you could argue that it is poor optimization that a single core can not run the game, but people with single cores are decreasing in number. All gaming or home target PCs sold in the last 2-3 years have 2 cores or more, thus there is no point anymore of designing games to work well on single cores. All next gen consols (not wii) have man cores, and the 360 even has hyper threading, so all new gamer designers are learning how to use them. Also you would probably find that the lag is reduced if your single core CPU had hyper threading, as already that reduces time splicing quite a bit and so you would find the CPU suffers for less wasted time as well as probably could handle the game more efficently.

    Well, the major argument if you ask me is the false or misleaing minimum requirements for the game. I mean these were even worse than the ones EA provides for crying out loud. 2.4 GhZ processor... yes but what kind.... You pointed out that an AMD (more efficent per cycle) single core with higher clock than the minimul lags to near unplayability, let alone an old P4 from intel. Also I have a 2.4 GHZ I7, does that mean I barly fit the minimum requirements? As for the recommended, they say someting like 3.0 GHz (reccomend multi thread capability). Are they saying that you need a 3.0 GHz multi core CPU to play the game or any multi core CPU runs the game well and you need a 3.0GHz single to run it well? Honestly whoever made those was computer ignorant and did not have any consideration for people with no idea about PCs. They should have listed the CPU types from both AMD and intel which fitted each bracket, as I am sure some poor person has tried to run it on a (god help him) 2.4 GHz P4, if it lags on the processor you described, it would be far from playable for him, although it meets the minimum requirements.

    They really should list the minimum requirements to play the game decently. EG the requirements needed to get a 30 FPS average at low settings (no stuttering or sporadic rendering).
     
  6. shiiK

    shiiK

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    Aye, I'm well aware that games are not made for single core processors anymore, but point of the matter is that Demigod is much worse than other new games in the same genre. And unless Stardock mainly wants the hardcore players, they should've implemented a better support for 2 year old computers. It's not needed in Demigod to utilize the most advanced technology, because it is such a simple engine (at least it looks that way, there's no physics apparantly, 'cause knockback f.ex. looks to be a constant arc for everyone within AoE and not proportional).

    Red Alert 3 is one of the newest RTS' and that runs smooth on high settings with the example single core rig, but mayhap EA is still holding on to single core support in order to haul more customers. Red Alert 3 operates and looks more appealing than Demigod too.

    Minimum and recommended requirements are never correct anyhow. :p
     
  7. LordForcystus

    LordForcystus

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    I've got to say when I first saw Demigod I was interested in it, simply because it had an AoS style (something borne out of a Wc3 player's mind) and I love AoS's. When I got on Demigod's website and read that Demigod was supposedly based off of DotA, I decided to never touch the subject again; however, it would seem I was drawn to this thread anyway :bored:. Well in any case this thread has changed my mind, perhaps if I had the money I'd get it. But I don't :hohum:
     
  8. shiiK

    shiiK

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    Aye, it's AoS, it's very WarCraft-y, but it's far from DotA. So if the resemblance with DotA is what's keeping you away I'll say as much that there's nothing else than the AoS part that is alike. Demigod is as much like DotA as any other AoS. None of the key elements of DotA is found in Demigod. If noone had said anything about it trying to be like DotA, I wouldn't have noticed.
     
  9. I)eadnerzhul

    I)eadnerzhul

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    Who cares if it does or doesn't resemble DotA? In essence, it's the same, but that's because their both AoS. Unlike DotA, however, Demigod doesn't suck, is balanced, and is fun. Thank GOD for it not being a DotA clone!
     
  10. shiiK

    shiiK

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    Demigod is not balanced, they have not had the time to even tweak the balance. Examplewise, Lv20 is utterly out of balance. Demigod might be fun if you got time, and like taking it slow with some trips at the toilet in-between without it making any difference.

    I'm glad there actually is a DotA clone as well, Heroes of Newerth, and a gameplay clone, content original, League of Legends. 'cause, as I've said countless times already, I prefer competitive games, Demigod is not competitive, and Demigod is slow-paced and long-drawn.
     
  11. I)eadnerzhul

    I)eadnerzhul

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    How is it unbalanced if you reach the max level? You get extra XP for killing enemy Demigods, which happens to be the fastest way to get XP.

    DotA is slow-paced and long-drawn, and from what I can see, Demigod isn't quite like that. I can complete a match in about 10-15 minutes, the longest ones taking about 20 or so. And that's against the computer... I wonder how quick it would be with real players?
     
  12. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Sorry to go way back, but... what? You're saying that DotA is better due to this reason? Last time I checked DotA didn't have more than one map, which isn't very big, and no (offical) AI. Huh?
     
  13. shiiK

    shiiK

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    It seems that level 20 has some extra benefits that throws them all out of balance, if all the heroes are level 20, you can't kill eachother, it's virtually impossible.

    I've never seen or played a match of Demigod any shorter than an hour. Except those matches in the tournament; first team to get 5 kills, which is done in a minute or two in a 5v5 battle. By the way, real players tend to play better than the computers resulting in longer matches, not shorter.

    I don't really get how DotA is slow-paced compared to Demigod though, have you seen how slow everything progresses? Even attack animations seem to be at half speed.



    DotA has way more heroes, way larger and detailed map (put all the Demigod maps together and you don't reach half the detail in the DotA map). And in fact, even unofficial, the DotA AI is much more sofisticated. But I agree that the AI is not something to compare on.
     
  14. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Well, the dota AI uses WC3's AI for casting spells mostly. Thus its unfair to compair as the AI DotA uses is far more easy to make as it relies on the mechanics from WC3. Also demigod is more complex, so the AI not only has to be low level coded but also interface with more.

    Also if you lot have not ralized, the game was incomplete when it was released... If you saw supreme commanders 2 you would understand. The demo showed that supreme commanders 2 was fully playable and its still 6 months odd from release. As THQ used the same developers for both (they said that they got experience from demigod), they obviously eithor rushed demigod so they could work on supreme commanders 2, or they did not pay it their full efforts, thus it was released with too little polish behind it. Also, they are trying all kinds of stuff like nural networks for learning AI for supreme commanders 2, yet none of that was tried with demigod, which means obviously it was not a serious game for them. It seems that THQ made most of the game (especially the graphics) and stardock is basically trying to maintain what was made and finish it with their limated resource team. They promised new content every month I remember reading somewhere yet they are yet to add a single new hero lol.
     
  15. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    Games generally take up to 30 minutes max, so they're definitely shorter than many rounds of DotA.
     
  16. shiiK

    shiiK

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    If one side is stronger than the other, yes. If you put a good team versus an average in a DotA match, the game is over in less than 30 minutes as well.

    If you finish in 30 minutes I guess you're around level 15 and without any artefacts or high-tier items. Just for the record, what are the 'general' team scores, in warrank and hero-kills- and are buildings usually destroyed on both sides, or is one side barely touched while the other is crushed? Besides, are you guys talking about full, conquest mode, or one of the mini-games?
     
  17. I)eadnerzhul

    I)eadnerzhul

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    Yeah, but most B.net games these days explicitly require you to be a "pro", so it doesn't matter.
    Demigod isn't about getting the best item build- it isn't even about having a good hero build. It's about having abilities and knowing HOW TO USE THEM. That's what sets it apart from DotA. It's more of an Action-game with RPG elements than an... well, a regular AoS.
    I couldn't tell you. I never attempted to play multiplayer with my *ahem* "not so legal" copy of the game.
    What you need to realize is that those other modes are fully fledged modes- they aren't "mini-games". Not in the slightest.
     
  18. shiiK

    shiiK

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    There are many levels of "Pro" .. one of them is noobs.

    If you think you can just cast spells at random in DotA you are gravely mistaken. How to use your abilities at the exact right moment at the correct target in sync with your team is essential in DotA, if you can't do that you lose. Buying the correct items makes sure you are not at a disadvantage, and building spells in an order that suits your team and enemy is necessary to maintain control in the early state of the game. You see, this is where DotA adds a lot of depth, whereas Demigod has none.

    I could say the opposit, that DotA is more of an action game than Demigod is, simply because there's no action in Demigod. It's an epic RTS battle, and that's all there is.

    Question about the 'general' endgame status was more directed at Deathcom3s.

    If they are not mini-games, then how come they are small parts of the conquest mode? They take little time, and they are bits of a larger game, they are mini-games.
     
  19. I)eadnerzhul

    I)eadnerzhul

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    You of all people should know.

    I think not.

    See, unlike DotA, Demigod has no "support" roles. Each Demigod is more than fully capable of defending themselves and supporting themselves, whereas DotA has the more traditional healers, tanks, etc.

    How so? Demigod also requires you to pick the right skills at the right time, but then again, every skill is important and suited to a particular playstyle, whereas DotA has specific "hero builds" that are followed every game. The items you buy in Demigod are to help out your own hero, not your allies. As I've said, each Demigod is a capable tank/damage dealer/dps/etc.

    But you can't, because that's not the case.

    Not at all. If anything, the units that are spawned in the game are little more than cannon fodder. Although, some units can be useful for destroying towers (the demolishers that generals have access to). The only time units really make an impact is in the beginning of each match, where Demigods are the weakest.

    Makes sense.

    The time each takes is dependent entirely on the customizable settings (how many points necessary to win the flag-capturing mode, how many kills for the "deathmatch" mode, etc.). If you set the kill limit for deathmatch to say 5, you'd have a significantly shorter game than if you'd set it to say 15 or 20.
     
  20. Super-Sheep

    Super-Sheep

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    Dota is slow. Demigod is faster. Lolwat? I think that I have missed something.

    I awlays thought that in Demigod you just stand still on a lane and maybe move a bit and look cool, then at some very random moment you just nuke your enemy with one very cool looking spell, oo enemy takes a lot damage, now another spell, ooo imba effects and he is dead. ssssss

    And give me a one example of a hero that is only healing based at Dota. Oh now I remember. There are none.