Dark Times & Good Times

[Pyritie]

Worst comes to worst, they could just remove chat\forums and just have it a reasorse dump, besides news and moderator forums and admin contact.. There would probably be less trouble that way..

NO. That would be HORRIBLE.

When the hive gets to that point it would've been dead for a while.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

NO. That would be HORRIBLE.

When the hive gets to that point it would've been dead for a while.

Clearly it would be horrible, but all the reasorses would be there. If we had to change anything that largly it would obviously be kinda dead. It was a joke anways.. xD

 

[Rui]

(...) Most of us are active and some of us are good moderators,but come to think of it.If all the Hive active members would be mods,then Hive would be only a moderator community,thats the first risk. (...)

It's not hard to become a moderator, not as hard as it was back in wc3search.
Why? Because if you were promoted, you received both a section and a forum to moderate. In the Hive you can get promoted to a section moderator and do your job without even having to look at the forums anymore.

I find it strange how a couple of mods leaving is called dieing.

I think it's the other way around. I call it a step further, in some cases.
It was sad to see moderators such as Operator, Warnicro and some other guy who was a global moderator or administrator (didn't even get to meet the last two, but they appeared to be interesting guys).

I must say I wasn't too bothered when Mini-Me, ragings or Griffen left though, I didn't even know how some of them got a staff position in the first place. I'm not questioning their competence for the job, though, that is not what I'm criticizing.

(...) And it's been more than a few Mods leaving. Ragingspeedhorn, Mini-Me, Earth-Fury, HappyTauren, Shados, Captain Griffen, and HINDYhat have all resigned from the Hive at some point because of the influx of noobs. It's rediculous.

It doesn't help that many of them no longer agree with the decisions being made by the Admins.

Hmmm? Earth-Fury and Shados seem to be active, and HappyTauren has returned.

Anyway, it doesn't take much not to agree with the changes. I believe I can tell why:
When something is wrong, nobody takes a step further to say it to the administration. If someone does, we have a few good chances to get ignored. I can't blame the administrators at 100%, 2 of them have no power to change forums (they probably wouldn't have permission to do so anyway), Ralle and Samuraid are always busy, and Wolverabid is inactive.
This is not the problem, though. The moderators have to argue with each other and reach a decision.
And what am I talking about? I'm talking about the ridiculous amount of root forums, I only have 3 or 4 categories opened. When I presented the issue to the administration everyone agreed with this thing of having multiple root forums.

This is just an example though, but in my opinion, another thing that takes the moderators to abandon the Hive is that they do not feel supported.

We currently have 5 Administrators. Only 2 of them are active. We have three Global Mod's. 1 of them is active once in a blue moon, another is active rarely, and the third is resigning. (...)

I read further into the thread and found that Shados is the one resigning. Why?

(...) We just get noobs, who expect to become pro overnight (...)
These people expect everything on a golden pladder, fed to them from a silver spoon. We don't do that here, and that's why we have so many people with 10 posts or less. They come here, with a world of delusion in their head, post a storm, get a dose of reality, and then run off crying.

I had to quote this. I absolutely agree.
Down two floors on the World Editor Help Zone I have experienced many of these people who need to get an answer within a few hours.

(...) Instead of this approach, we are starting to bend to them, to cater to their needs. We are told to be friendly to them, to bow and curtesy to their every whim. If they decide to freak out at us because we're not being helpful enough, we're supposed to take it, redirect them to the site rules, and, failing all else, finally resort to punishment. (...)

This is the way it happens, but I don't think we're forced to bow to them.
I believe there has been power abuses inside the staff, but fortunately it has lessened over time, at least for what I can see.

You'd be amazed, how many noobs, after I've given them neg rep, see the error of there ways and PM me, appologizing, admitting that they were wrong (This takes a shitload of balls folks) and hoping to start fresh on the right side of things.

It makes my day to see a user who works like that, a user who can swallow their pride and realize that they were in the wrong and should better themselves from it.

That happened to me once and it wasn't much time ago.
I took both their single point of reputation, but hopefully they won't go insane and I won't have to punish them again.

Sc2 might actually "revive" the hive.

That's something I thought too, but there is a problem, which I already mentioned in this post.

The Hive is totally themed with Warcraft III.
As I said earlier, there is an exaggerated amount of root-forums, which will need to be packed if this site is to receive a new Starcraft II community. The way it is, we either need to create a second board for Starcraft II or just keep the site Wc3-themed, which will eventually lead to it's death someday, that's for sure.

Honestly, I can't see Sc2 being implemented in the Hive right now.

(...) 3. The problem is NOT the moderation. The problem is the map approval policy, which basically is "APPROVE IF ENGLISH". See, noobs come along with their shitty maps, submit to our resource section, moderators approve, noobs get happy, noobs spam forums, staff punishes, noobs cry about staff and become general pains in the ass. This is something that moderators can't fix, moreso an administration issue (which was one of the reasons other and I left). (...)

I believe there should be a work for quality, but not all moderators do that. Heero was pretty serious when rating/evaluating my Outcast Lands melee map.
But since not all moderators follow the same guidelines, the conduct isn't working.

I believe there should be more work for quality, and since when are there incomplete maps in the Map Section? Back in wc3search incomplete/alpha maps were forbidden. It is just not right to approve every crap the modders submit.
We should remain the Hive, which is something between Wc3campaigns and The Helper. Not too "home for noobs", not too "only if you're pro".

---

[RAINBOW]By the way![/RAINBOW]

I have completed 1 year of World Editor Help Zone moderation just a few minutes ago! It happened at 19:05 (GMT+1) exactly!
Happy birthday to me!

I approve, Rui. You are a fine help!

 

[Pyritie]

And what am I talking about? I'm talking about the ridiculous amount of root forums, I only have 3 or 4 categories opened. When I presented the issue to the administration everyone agreed with this thing of having multiple root forums.

So are you saying each moderator should only have one forum to look after?

I believe there should be a minimum work for quality, and since when are there incomplete maps in the Map Section? Back in wc3search incomplete/alpha maps were forbidden. It is just not right to approve every crap the modders submit.

Well I've seen a whole bunch of incomplete maps get approved. So apparently some of the maps moderators aren't doing their jobs...

I have completed 1 year of World Editor Help Zone moderation just a few minutes ago! It happened at 19:05 (GMT+1) exactly!
Happy birthday to me!

You counted? D:

---

[rainbow]Also by the way!

[/rainbow]

Yesterday, I (along with the rest of the minimodders) finished categorizing and adding keywords to the model database. Now every single (approved) model has keywords and categories, so you can find models much easier.

OMFG you rock!!

 

[Dumblor]

So are you saying each moderator should only have one forum to look after?

Well I've seen a whole bunch of incomplete maps get approved. So apparently some of the maps moderators aren't doing their jobs...

You counted? D:

---

[rainbow]Also by the way!

[/rainbow]

Yesterday, I (along with the rest of the minimodders) finished categorizing and adding keywords to the model database. Now every single (approved) model has keywords and categories, so you can find models much easier.

Thank you so f***ing much! I was allways waiting for this , because some models that were at the beggining were not categorized and it was very hard to find them.

 

[Rui]

So are you saying each moderator should only have one forum to look after?

I think you got me wrong and I don't understand what you mean exactly with that thing of having one forum to look after.

What I meant is that many of the root-forums can be placed as child-forums inside another root-forums.

For example:

• Bug Report Forum could be a child-forum of Site Discussion. I check every thread in the World Editor Help Zone, I am forced to do so in order to select the threads that are supposed to be moved to the Solved Problems archive. Can't the admins check the bug reports once in a while?
  The sub-forums hyperlink below the description even make it easier.
• The Arena category could be moved further down.
• The Gallery doesn't need to be shown in the Artist's Discussion category. Only an idiot would scroll down to find it when you can simply click "Art" in the upper tab.
• Tutorials could be a single forum without needing a whole category for it.
  If the category is really needed, then make it invisible, since the users can easily click "Tutorials" in the upper tab.
• Introductions, Polls, Hive Workshop Roundtable (and perhaps Medivh's Tower) can be child-forums of the Off-Topic.
  
  And don't come telling me that forums such as Medivh's Tower would get little attention, if Off-Topic had been kept as a single forum and put into the Hive Workshop category - as it was initially - it would get much more attention.

In summary, why have a disorganized forum when you can have a clean one?

 

[Fulla]

I think you got me wrong and I don't understand what you mean exactly with that thing of having one forum to look after.

What I meant is that many of the root-forums can be placed as child-forums inside another root-forums.

For example:

• Bug Report Forum could be a child-forum of Site Discussion. I check every thread in the World Editor Help Zone, I am forced to do so in order to select the threads that are supposed to be moved to the Solved Problems archive. Can't the admins check the bug reports once in a while?
  The sub-forums hyperlink below the description even make it easier.
• The Arena category could be moved further down.
• The Gallery doesn't need to be shown in the Artist's Discussion category. Only an idiot would scroll down to find it when you can simply click "Art" in the upper tab.
• Tutorials could be a single forum without needing a whole category for it.
  If the category is really needed, then make it invisible, since the users can easily click "Tutorials" in the upper tab.
• Introductions, Polls, Hive Workshop Roundtable (and perhaps Medivh's Tower) can be child-forums of the Off-Topic.
  
  And don't come telling me that forums such as Medivh's Tower would get little attention, if Off-Topic had been kept as a single forum and put into the Hive Workshop category - as it was initially - it would get much more attention.

In summary, why have a disorganized forum when you can have a clean one?

Completely agree.

 

[emperor_d3st]

It was mentioned in the first post that you have plans for the chat section. Does this plan involve IRC?

 

[HappyTauren]

no .

 

[emperor_d3st]

Would you please elaborate on that? I mean IRC does have a lot of pros, what are the cons? Running your internet browser solely for being in THW chat room is not funny.

 

[Pyritie]

Running an IRC client solely for being in a chatroom is also not funny.

Ralle made his chatroom by himself. I don't think he wants to get rid of all his hard work just so a few people can be happy with it being in IRC.

 

[varsaigen]

I don't like wc3campaigns since most of them there think they are better than others. For example I was asking for voice actors there for my old cinematic and only thing I got is that the moderator says read the rules of the forum or I have to remove the thread. I read the rules and said I have no idea what he is talking about and he did not even reply. And I have nothing agains noobs and newbs unless I'm playing a DotA game with them. Well noobs could be irritating to moderators but I don't have to deal with them so it is not my problem. For example if the map section was filled with all kind of noob maps who would want to spend all free time approving maps, not me at least.

I hear you, buddy. I was giving my opinions and suggestions about a skin and was being flamed by people (and a mod) about pestering. It is a hostile enviroment there but I do my best to improve it with honest ideas. There is a reason that i am most active on this site. It is online paradise compared to other modding sites. And, with some people leaving, we still have top notch members who can teach and submit, much less moderate sections. THE HIVE IS NOT DIEING!!! And I agree with Donut, we (as a site) need to give people gratitude that they do their best and try to help them improve.

 

[emperor_d3st]

An IRC Client doesn't drain your computer's resources like an internetbrowser. Not to mention that you can't accidentally close it/refresh it/whatever, you can customize it to your own liking, you can enable logs, mute people, do file transfers easily, bla bla..

 

[Pyritie]

WE ARE NOT GETTING AN IRC CLIENT.

This is final.

 

[Naze]

Introductions, Polls, Hive Workshop Roundtable (and perhaps Medivh's Tower) can be child-forums of the Off-Topic.

Well, I think that Introductions should be where it is, because the new ones are going to find it easier.

Also, the noobs that register and go straight to the request board (actually, they go to the models board, and then they get removed) and then leave the Hive, those kind of noobs don't register, usually the ones who register become an useful/active member lately.

 

[emperor_d3st]

WE ARE NOT GETTING AN IRC CLIENT.

This is final.

I'm not a damn vacuum-cleaner agent. I don't want to force you into using an IRC client, I was merely asking if the plans involve IRC and if not enlighten me about the cons of the freaking IRC.

I got answers like: "no." from Mr. 4chan Emokid and got shouted by The Dragon Guy in uppercase. If you don't intend to answer, but in a "GTFO I was here before you, lulz" manner, please don't even answer.
Thank you.

I will try hard and provide some samples:
"Dear curious user,
We have world-domination plans in motion involving our current chat client, so we don't intend to switch."

"My beloved emperor,
The girl who I had a crush on left the country with the developer of the IRC client software"

Or something like that.

 

[Hakeem]

Running an IRC client solely for being in a chatroom is also not funny.

No, it's not funny. Not funny at all. It's obvious.

Ralle made his chatroom by himself. I don't think he wants to get rid of all his hard work just so a few people can be happy with it being in IRC.

He wouldn't need to throw out his work, it would simply be adapted.

WE ARE NOT GETTING AN IRC CLIENT.

What about a server?


I, too, would like to know the cons.

 

[varsaigen]

Please, if someone would like to know the pros and cons of something, don't complain, just give the guy some info or at least reference. It's that simple. And if no one is willing to use their spare time to help, then he/she should research it.

For example:
IRC reference.
Hope this helps.

 

[brad.dude03]

Since Ralle custom-designed our chat in PHP, I feel that he has superior control over molding it to fit our needs. It's literally a part of the site, rather than a seperate entity.

 

[varsaigen]

Since Ralle custom-designed our chat in PHP, I feel that he has superior control over molding it to fit our needs. It's literally a part of the site, rather than a seperate entity.

varsaigen: quoted from:[21-43-12] Hakeem: Brad is always right, and you, noob, are always wrong

That quote fits the topic as it is. Don't complain. Its a quote, thats all.

 

[emperor_d3st]

IRC reference.
Hope this helps.

Thanks but I'm familiar with IRC, Wikipedia and Google
You misunderstood me, I was curious about the reason why the majority of people here are against an IRC server (under cons of IRC I meant this).

I also understand that there was hard work put into the PHP chat, but even after switching to IRC its interface and some parts could be used to create a web based client.

And again:

I'm not a damn vacuum-cleaner agent. I don't want to force you into using an IRC client

From my few days of THW-chat experience (almost always just observing) currently it's maintained for a small group of arrogant users ready to flame anyone entering. Majority of the people I met there were shooing away everyone new in a "GTFO NOOB" manner. So, I would like to humbly suggest to at least change the rules or some user's acces there in the future changes.

 

[varsaigen]

k. I was just trying to help you find the cons. I couldn't find it so I used the entire thing. Sorry if it didn't help.

 

[HappyTauren]

It is not about IRC's cons too much, it is more about our chat PROS:
-Integrated into vB with MySQL
-Works with the site, shows ranks and all
-You need a registered forum account
-Globally ignored users are also ignored in chat
-Chat logs
-Ralle can do just ANYTHING he wants with the chat
-You don't have to run an IRC client, nor stupid java applet
-People browse THW while chatting in THW chat, so it doesn't drain any more memory anyway
-Colored names
-Warcraft3 interface
-More fun
-Need I say more?

 

[brad.dude03]

HT is right. And said arrogant users may seem arrogant to you because they are Staffers? Last I checked they were higher on the tree than you bud, though they shouldn't be telling you to leave.

In all honesty if they so badly wanted you out they could have kick/banned the hell out of you....

And what's to say an IRC chat wont have the same problem? Just because it's a different means of chatting doesn't mean we'll be any less arrogant ^^

 

[HappyTauren]

Just because it's a different means of chatting doesn't mean we'll be any less arrogant ^^

especially you brad <3

 

[NearbyHermit]

HT is right. And said arrogant users may seem arrogant to you because they are Staffers? Last I checked they were higher on the tree than you bud, though they shouldn't be telling you to leave.

In all honesty if they so badly wanted you out they could have kick/banned the hell out of you....

And what's to say an IRC chat wont have the same problem? Just because it's a different means of chatting doesn't mean we'll be any less arrogant ^^

Some of the ''persecuted'' members say that Staffers are power-hungry.And the even ilegality exists in Hive,I saw it.

 

[varsaigen]

interesting. I havn't heard that one yet. But knowing the arrogance in certain members... (not you guys)

 

[NearbyHermit]

It is true,every 10 white sheep must have a black lamb

 

[Rui]

Well, I think that Introductions should be where it is, because the new ones are going to find it easier.

The new ones are not going to find it at all. It is too dug down, the majority of the users never scroll down an entire board just to find a forum like that, as they're not even expecting it to exist. And if they do, they can miss it.

 

[emperor_d3st]

The new ones are not going to find it at all. It is too dug down, the majority of the users never scroll down an entire board just to find a forum like that, as they're not even expecting it to exist. And if they do, they can miss it.

I think when I joined THW I used to have some reminder on the top of the interface telling me to introduce myself in the Introductions thread.

 

[Rui]

I think when I joined THW I used to have some reminder on the top of the interface telling me to introduce myself in the Introductions thread.

And again, isn't it better to simply have the Introductions forum up there?

 

[Captain Griffen]

THW chat >>>>>>>>>> IRC chat server. You get way more activity, way easier control over it, it's more moddable to suit your needs...it's great.

*gives cookies to Ralle*

 

[Dumblor]

THW chat >>>>>>>>>> IRC chat server. You get way more activity, way easier control over it, it's more moddable to suit your needs...it's great.

*gives cookies to Ralle*

It has it's own flaws , and the THW is more stylish I would say .

 

[Firelord213]

Keep the regular chat , I think it's the best chat I have ever been too and I'm addicted to it.I spend too much time there.
Any ways , Now when Wolverabid isn't here it means the staff needs to do a bit more in The Hive Workshop , The Hive Workshop shall never die

 

[emperor_d3st]

For some.. weird reason you guys seem very biased towards THW chat what makes me think you have never used IRC
OR
The girl you had a crush on left the country with the developer of an IRC client.

 

[HappyTauren]

err dude.. did you ever actually get used to our THW chat? It seems no. I have used IRC thousands of times, it is simply not *THAT*

 

[Pyritie]

IRC is for sites who have an inept webmaster.

Like wc3c.

 

[Captain Griffen]

I use both IRC and THW chat, and THW chat's imbeddedness is, in itself, big enough an advantage.

IRC is for sites who have an inept webmaster.

Like wc3c.

Nowai. Tim.'s just inactive, not inept!

 

[brad.dude03]

For some.. weird reason you guys seem very biased towards THW chat what makes me think you have never used IRC
OR
The girl you had a crush on left the country with the developer of an IRC client.

It's funny that you say that. If you scroll up a tad, you'll notice that Captain Griffen fully endorsed our browser based chat. The ironic part is that he is an Admin on Warcraft 3 Campaigns, our friendly competitor (well, the cloest we get to competition anyway), which happens to use IRC for their chat.

He's obviously very familiar with IRC, so I'd take his endorsment as a serious recomendation, rather than blind following.

 

[Instant Ramen]

First off,
Quanity != Quality.
8,000 noobs != one awesome member.
The solution is NOT more staff members, but ones who are competent.
I've been watching this thread and I see quite a few powerhungry noobs, (not listing any names, they are quite obvious anyways.) and I would like to say that all of the powerhungry, asskissing noobs that somehow end up on staff are killing the Hive. I mean, it's not bad enough that we are flooded with noobtards, but some of them actually end up on staff?!? That is a reason why the Hive is dying.

 

[HINDYhat]

Ramen speaks true.

Now watch 8000 noobtards agree with Ramen.

 

[brad.dude03]

Noobtard #7999 signing on.

 

[Just_Spectating]

now why is ramen copying my sig!

lawl. jk..

 

[HappyTauren]

Noobtard #7999 signing on.

Hehe, I am not noobtard, so there are 6000 left!

 

[varsaigen]

umm, wow. This is.... blah. People (who claim to be watching this thread; no insults directed) don't seem to understand that the Hive isn't dieing.

Also, I am a member on wc3campaigns.net too, and their chat system is not very good. Sure it fits the same purposes but the system the HIve has is much more flexible. Just let the IRC being equal thing go. It obviously isn't and it is much stiffer (don't get the wrong idea here) than the Hive's flexible (again, not what your thinking...) chat system. It's that simple.

 

[donut3.5]

First off,
Quanity != Quality.
8,000 noobs != one awesome member.
The solution is NOT more staff members, but ones who are competent.
I've been watching this thread and I see quite a few powerhungry noobs, (not listing any names, they are quite obvious anyways.) and I would like to say that all of the powerhungry, asskissing noobs that somehow end up on staff are killing the Hive. I mean, it's not bad enough that we are flooded with noobtards, but some of them actually end up on staff?!? That is a reason why the Hive is dying.

~Instant Ramen for Admin~
--donut3.5--

 

[Instant Ramen]

varsaigen, no. The Hive is dying from lack of intelligent people. It may not be physically dead, but mentally, it's retarded. The site is slowly losing brain matter to noobs.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

First off,
Quanity != Quality.
8,000 noobs != one awesome member.
The solution is NOT more staff members, but ones who are competent.
I've been watching this thread and I see quite a few powerhungry noobs, (not listing any names, they are quite obvious anyways.) and I would like to say that all of the powerhungry, asskissing noobs that somehow end up on staff are killing the Hive. I mean, it's not bad enough that we are flooded with noobtards, but some of them actually end up on staff?!? That is a reason why the Hive is dying.

You might actually end up useful for the community and not be a total moron. Now THAT is rare.

 

[Hakeem]

It is not about IRC's cons too much, it is more about our chat PROS:

Other people said things too, but you had a nice list.

(First off, let me say that I am willing to program an IRC server.)

Integrated into vB with MySQL
Globally ignored users are also ignored in chat
Chat logs

IRC would not prevent this.

Works with the site, shows ranks and all
Ralle can do just ANYTHING he wants with the chat
Colored names
Warcraft3 interface
More fun

THW Chat need not change (on the client side anyway) to work with IRC.

You need a registered forum account

My main purpose for writing an IRC server.

You don't have to run an IRC client, nor stupid java applet

No, but we have to have the chat page open.

People browse THW while chatting in THW chat, so it doesn't drain any more memory anyway

Funny you should mention this...

Need I say more?

If you would.

 

[varsaigen]

varsaigen, no. The Hive is dying from lack of intelligent people. It may not be physically dead, but mentally, it's retarded. The site is slowly losing brain matter to noobs.

I agree wholeheartedly. Physically we are quiet alive. Mentally dead though. I don't think we need any body surgery (IRC). All we need is brain surgery (smarter people). No offense.