Brotherhood Of Kenji

[Moderator]

21:03, 19th Feb 2009
VGsatomi: Approved. A short fighting sequence set in Japan with almost completely imported models and material. The music set the frantic pace of the fighting. Some interesting tricks were used for fighting moves, but misses a lot of the special effects and character movement seen on most other 1 on 1 fighting cinimatics. Very little story, but the ending was left open for possible more installments. Overall great quality.

 

[lord_ken]

Looks promising. I'll critique after watching.

5/5

Terrain is neat
Cameraworks are amazing
Don't have anything else to say. -.-

 

[Septimus]

voice act would be available at version 1.01 once shamanyouranus have send me the voice act.

There is a few known bug that are trying to be fix and some feature that are trying to be add into it. If any user know how to fix some of the bug or have the necessary material, feel free to post it here.

Known Bug

1) Animation random - Some of the animation of this cinematic execute attack 1 animation while it had been order to execute attack 2 animation. I have ask several user regarding this matter and none of them able to come up with the right solution.

Feature implementation

1) Voice act - Voice act that would be add.
2) Sound effect - Some sound effect that have been dubbed into this cinematic was rather too low to be heard such as the rapid slashing scenario. If any user have any sound effect of sword fight that last less than 0.30 seconds, feel free to send it to me.

 

[Paladon]

A very nice and well created cinematic.
Septimus, you can update your signature.

I really hope that there may be an extension

 

[bounty hunter2]

Here is my rating and comment:

Rating system

Altered Melee:
1 - 10 points go on originality √
1 - 10 points go on terrain √
1 - 10 points go on bug free √
1 - 10 points go on gameplay/fun factor √
1 - 10 points go on lag √
1 - 10 points go on balance
1 - 10 points go on drops
1 - 10 points go on Object editor work
1 - 10 points go on proper submission and crediting √
1 - 10 points go on scripting √
1 - 10 points go on camera work √
1 - 10 points go on music and or voice acting √
1 - 10 points go on dialog
-------------------------------------------------

Voting system

Percent	Grade	Status
0 - 34%	1/5	Rejected
35 - 49%	1/5	Reviewed
50 - 64%	2/5	Approved
65 - 79%	3/5	Approved
80 - 89%	4/5	Approved
90 - 100%	5/5	Approved

The table may vary if needed.

Originality: 8/10 √
Rather interesting story, however I can't seem to get the part: faith brought them together in a forest during midnight. Just like that?

Camera work: 8/10 √
Much better then of your previous cinematics. It was constant and fluid, although sometimes a bit to fast.

Music and or voice acting: 8/10 √
Music was fine, went on with the battle. I hope you do get some nice voice actors to enhance it even more.

Bug Free: 7/10 √
Well as I had watched it it worked just fine, but you say you have some animation errors so I'l take some points.

Terrain: 9/10 √
Outstanding work from raid1000. I love his terrains, this one was no less. I can't complain, just say it was great. I especially liked the mountain part.

Scripting: 8/10 √
The scripting was good, optimized for efficency.

Gameplay/Fun Factor: 5/10 √
The fight was interesting, however I must say you overused some effects to much, like the fire on the ground. Sometimes a bit to unreal, when the sword goes through him and he survives.

Lag: 7/10 √
With the amount of effects you put I was surprised that the map had little or no lag. But the load time was a bit long.

Proper submission and crediting: 10/10 √
This is a perfect example of fine submission.

In overall: 72 / 90
80% minimal 50% met.
For the hive grade: 4/5 I suggest this map for: Approval
-------------------------------------------------
In overall a fine cinematic, with great terrain, scripting and music. The cameras were fine and the story was original. My only complain goes on maybe a bit to much effect usage which makes it a bit dull to watch. But you will soon forget the effects as it is a good cinematic I am sure anyone will enjoy watching.

Good Luck, bounty hunter2
I might not be checking this topic for some time. If you have any questions about the review or you update the map and want me to check it again, feel free to PM me or Visitor message me at any time.

 

[Septimus]

Rather interesting story, however I can't seem to get the part: faith brought them together in a forest during midnight. Just like that?

Well, the origin story I planned was rather long and approximate to be 2 hours cinematic, but I decided to make it into a 2 minutes battle cinematic instead because a lot of people doesn't like to view a cinematic with lenghty conversation.

To explain this part, it was rather simple. Masamune who have join the dark path have serve the evil lord and he have been order by his master to assasinate the emperor. Murasame as the general know about the evil lord plot and he knew the assasination begin that night, prompting him to safe guard the emperor chamber.

The assasination failed and Murasame chase the assailant, only to found out it was his brother.

Much better then of your previous cinematics. It was constant and fluid, although sometimes a bit to fast.

The fast/slow motion of the camera depends on the action of the battle.

Music was fine, went on with the battle. I hope you do get some nice voice actors to enhance it even more.

Yep, just wait for shamanyouranus voice.

Well as I had watched it it worked just fine, but you say you have some animation errors so I'l take some points.

Well, the animation sometimes execute attack 1 animation instead of 2. I don't know why.. :=/

The fight was interesting, however I must say you overused some effects to much, like the fire on the ground. Sometimes a bit to unreal, when the sword goes through him and he survives.

Cause Murasame use some sort of power to prevent itself from getting damage. If you look carefully at the slow motion, you would notice a dispell effect have been used.

Hahaha.. bounty, your conclusion make me laugh.. lol, it seems like you mess up the usage of the image.. XD

 

[Yoghurt69]

its inspired by battle realms? it has something in common with it?

 

[arphax214]

dude it be good if you make a game for it..i really like battle realms..

 

[bounty hunter2]

Cause Murasame use some sort of power to prevent itself from getting damage. If you look carefully at the slow motion, you would notice a dispell effect have been used.

Hahaha.. bounty, your conclusion make me laugh.. lol, it seems like you mess up the usage of the image.. XD

Ah yes I forget the damn images always. My template is always 1/5 so it was that way. *fixed*

 

[HFR]

Downloading now, please wait a short time...

Now I watched and here is my review:

(+) The terrain:
Septimus, you're an amazing terrainer , you created an nice forest environment, with variety of tilesets and wise doodad placemet.
(+) The Fight:
You used lots of triggers to make this realistic fight, with jumping, nice spells, and good camera. CMarket could learn some of these tricks to use in Lone Panther 3, he he...
(+) The Camera:
The camera is in constant movement, an rule for good cinematics. And good placement and angle of camera
too.
(+) The Music:
The oriental-like music fits perfectly in the theme of the movie.
(+)The Loading Screen:
The custon loading screen is very well made and fits into the history.
(+) The Size:
It's just 2 mb, but I think is a bit short...

(+ -) The Shortness:
Well, just 2 minutes... More history could be good.

(-) I didn't saw anything bad, like bugs, bad camera, or something. The attack animation bug is almost imperceptable.

Rating

This cinematic has many good points, one neutral point and none bad point, but the neutral point don't is too bad, so give it an 5/5, because I liked the fighting and the music.

 

[Septimus]

Septimus, you're an amazing terrainer , you created an nice forest environment, with variety of tilesets and wise doodad placemet.

The terrain was make by raid1000, I only able to make a symmetry terrain which you can view it at my map entitle "Symmetry Park".

You used lots of triggers to make this realistic fight, with jumping, nice spells, and good camera. CMarket could learn some of these tricks to use in Lone Panther 3, he he...

The cinematic trigger was fully develop by me, except a few jass trigger. CMarket TLP ain't suitable for this kind of trigger setup because TLP was a 40 minutes cinematic. This 2 minutes cinematic already have almost a hundred trigger.

The camera is in constant movement, an rule for good cinematics. And good placement and angle of camera
too.

Well, fast and slow motion of the camera and constant moving was crucial for battle cinematic.

It's just 2 mb, but I think is a bit short...

It was relative small size since it was a multiplayer cinematic map, the purpose is to show it was possible to create a excellent multiplayer cinematic at under 3mb size.

Well, just 2 minutes... More history could be good.

The music last about 2 minutes, the battle rhyme was following the music time limit.

(-) I didn't saw anything bad, like bugs, bad camera, or something. The attack animation bug is almost imperceptable.

It would be fix once I get animator to find out what's wrong with it.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

this is a very interesting cinematic.

raid did a good job on the terrain.

and the battle was just freaken awsome. I looked at the triggers and crap and its really complicated to me. But its awsome.

the models tha were fighting were high res...so they look beutiful.

one thing though, the music really didn't fit this cinematic at all : /

but it still gets a 5/5

 

[bounty hunter2]

The music fit perfectly I must say. I dunno why you would think the opposite.

 

[Ribenamania]

Hm.. how should I comment on this map.This map is very good
Let's see...

Terraining√
Triggering√
Camera√
Loading Screen√

raid1000 I want to say that you did a great job in the terraining
I cannot comment about the triggers because I did not open it with WE but I believe Hanky and HappyTrigger did a good job in it too
Camera is smooth and neat
Loading screen is suitable =)

Overall this map is pretty good and I can see potential in it, just need a little cinematic starting.. maybe a little flashback if there's a second episode[I would like to see it]

The only bad thing or maybe I call it neutral is the spell effect.
There're actually good but the thing is there are too many spiral skills

Yeah, I love those models.. black_stan rocks xD

Oh ya I forgot something, lol ragnarok BGM ! An okay music thou, you'll need some cool sound effects such as slashing etc to make the cinematic to have a "fighting" effect, it looked dull now since I hear no slashing. Also, slashing sounds and spell effect sounds that are soft will cause sleepyness ^^

 

[Septimus]

raid1000 I want to say that you did a great job in the terraining
I cannot comment about the triggers because I did not open it with WE but I believe Hanky and HappyTrigger did a good job in it too
Camera is smooth and neat
Loading screen is suitable =)

The trigger was set with precise timing at GUI form making the entire action and camera run at the exact time, actually I want to set it in JASS just like Spirit of Vengeance cinematic. But, I still did not figure out how to use it in jass yet. Hanky help me fix the knockback (In which the samurai was knock behind by the ninja power) and credit goes to HappyTrigger for jump system. Of course, I use animation of attack slam to make the jump look better

Overall this map is pretty good and I can see potential in it, just need a little cinematic starting.. maybe a little flashback if there's a second episode[I would like to see it]

Actually I want to create a 2 hour cinematic of it, telling the entire plot of why both of the brother clash against one another and so on. But, to make a precise timing cinematic that last about 2 hour with GUI are absolutely a bad choice and most of the people cannot stand cinematic that are full of chattering.

The lack of assistance from terrainer are part of the main obstacle that prevent me from making this cinematic a 2 hour cinematic.

The only bad thing or maybe I call it neutral is the spell effect.
There're actually good but the thing is there are too many spiral skills

Maybe it look dull cause the formation was same, I would probably change the formation in the next update.

Oh ya I forgot something, lol ragnarok BGM ! An okay music thou, you'll need some cool sound effects such as slashing etc to make the cinematic to have a "fighting" effect, it looked dull now since I hear no slashing. Also, slashing sounds and spell effect sounds that are soft will cause sleepyness ^^

Yes, there is a sound of slashing. Unfortunately the sound was too low to be heard, I need a sound of sword slashing that are between 0.30-0.45 seconds or else the sword attack and sound timing would not match.

I search through sound effect site, but I found none of the sound effect last only about 0.30-0.45 seconds.

At the beginning of the battle, there is a sword slashing sound when both of them slash one another. But, for the next battle scene there is no sound of sword slashing because both of them constantly miss their attack except for the scene in which Murasame gone berserk and slash rapidly (Unfortunately the sound effect for this scene is extremely low and only could be heard if you set your volume to a maximum).

 

[ModelTester]

10/5 from me

 

[raid1000]

its good to know that everyone likes my terraining :>

 

[HFR]

Yep, your terraining skills are amazing! good work!

 

[Septimus]

I have fix the animation error and add sound effect. Now the fight look more logic and reasonable.

 

[creyzi4zb12]

Great cinematic, cool music and terrain..the fight scenes weren't really my type of fight...but still 5/5

 

[lord vendredi]

Why did the guy run away?
5/5 any way from me

 

[Demon Reaper]

Nice Cin. 5/5

 

[Restor]

I cannot comment about the triggers because I did not open it with WE but I believe Hanky and HappyTrigger did a good job in it too

I am just wondering why must everybody judge "triggering/scripting" in cinematic, if it is good, I dont care if it is proper timing or jass or whatever, useless criteria this trigerring.


But it was not good as Vision (the best 1v1 cin so far ) but still very good. But I cannot say the story was something superb, it has EITHER no story at all OR the same cliche story about 1v1 anime fight as 1000times before. There cannot be done very good story in 2 minutes anyway (for that, vision had better "story" and was more original)

4.5/5

 

[Septimus]

I am just wondering why must everybody judge "triggering/scripting" in cinematic, if it is good, I dont care if it is proper timing or jass or whatever, useless criteria this trigerring.

I do believe it was essential to judge a map based on scripting. Having the though of "As long as it good" or "As long as it work" is likely to be a bad approach, that is why some cinematic have a serious lag because user did not fix memory leak or inproper animation.

If you view Brotherhood Of Kenji version 1.00 and version 1.01, you would notice there is a slight difference between their animation. At version 1.00, the ninja (Masamune Kenji) sometimes execute attack 1 animation when he backstab the samurai (Murasame Kenji). However, version 1.01 show that he attack the samurai using animation attack 2 no matter how many times you watch it.

At wc3c site, a cinematic are likely to be rejected no matter how good it was if there is a little error in scripting.

But it was not good as Vision (the best 1v1 cin so far ) but still very good. But I cannot say the story was something superb, it has EITHER no story at all OR the same cliche story about 1v1 anime fight as 1000times before. There cannot be done very good story in 2 minutes anyway (for that, vision had better "story" and was more original)

Yes, there is a story about the dispute between both brother. But, I wrote a rather simple synopsis about it at map description (If you ever read the description of it). Infact, my actual plan was to make this a 2-3 hour cinematic; but it would likely to reduce the standard/quality of the map as there might probably a lot of chatting to reveal the history of it, making it a dull cinematic to be watch before the battle scene begin and likely to be a suicide mission if I try to make it in precise timing via GUI.

My early intention was to create a vision (Flashback) on the reason of why they fight just like Spirit Of Vengeance by Anitarf & Infrane, unfortunately the music just last about 2 minutes; making it not suitable to do it.

Apart from that, the target of this cinematic creation was to show it was possible to create a good cinematic that could be watch via LAN/Internet at under 3mb size with all the necessary model, music and voice act on it.

And why everyone keep refer to manga/anime whenever they see a japanese model, movies and etc etc :=/

The next thing I probably know is somebody would said "Omg, it remind me of naruto" =.=

 

[Restor]

Wrong point, I do not care about triggers, all important things I can see on the screen.

Do someone care about what types of special efect did they used in some movie? No



For me it's just
Camera movement-yes, there is the "lag criteria" hidden, and it must cooperates with action on the screen

Effect-including spells,units movement etc etc. It also has lag criteria hidden

Story-dialogues etc etc.

Terrain-the 2nd most important thing (first is camera) in cinematic

Sound&Music-not very important but choosing of bad music can ruin entire feeling of movie


And scripting? Totaly WE analphabet can know which cin is good and which is bad, and have no idea about triggers.

 

[Septimus]

Wrong point, I do not care about triggers, all important things I can see on the screen.

That is the main problem that occur at most of the mapper, all they think about is "As long as it good/As long as it work".

Terrain-the 2nd most important thing (first is camera) in cinematic

Do not forget the camera fall into trigger category as well. If the trigger ain't set properly, the camera movement won't be that smooth.

Ok, enough off-topic. I do not want both of us get into hot water and incase you did not read my entire post at 24th. I would like to tell you there is indeed a story about it, just take a look at the map description.

 

[Mufanza]

That is the main problem that occur at most of the mapper, all they think about is "As long as it good/As long as it work".

Wtf are you talking about? It's a cinematic ffs!
What else should we think about? What else can you do with triggers? As long as they work, it's allright.
Do you need them to be listed in alphabet order or what? Tell me

 

[Septimus]

Wtf are you talking about? It's a cinematic ffs!
What else should we think about? What else can you do with triggers? As long as they work, it's allright.
Do you need them to be listed in alphabet order or what? Tell me, I am very interested

Based on what you saying, you might had open this map to view the trigger.

Ok, I would explain to you. This cinematic was using precise timing in the form of GUI instead of action-wait xxx seconds. Trigger action for wait - xxx seconds are never accurate especially when it was below 0.10 seconds.

With precise timing, you can do a lot of thing that ordinary trigger that are using wait function could not do. For example, the unit would execute animation spell exactly 2.40 seconds. If you are using Wait - 2.40 seconds, there is sometimes the trigger would order the action to be execute at 2.10 seconds or 2.60 seconds, making the entire action or scene look rather awkward.

However, making a cinematic in precise timing to make every scenario and music execute at the right place and right time could be a burden if you are doing it at GUI as it would lead to a huge list of trigger. Infact, JASS are always the best option for precise timing as you can make all of it in 1 trigger files.

Also, a good trigger could effect the way the unit animation was execute. For example, if we seen any cinematic made by amateur or normal user; there is a possibility of the animation error occur.

Try download Brotherhood Of Kenji v1.00 and compare it with v1.01, you would notice the attack animation at v1.00 would order the unit to use animation attack 1 instead of attack 2. However, at v1.01, all the attack animation was consisten and at the way it should be. Just view the cinematic at the scene where the ninja try to backstab the samurai.

 

[Mufanza]

Ok, nice, but that IS something you can actually notice when you're wathching the cinematic, not something you can see only when opening the map in WE

the only important things are what I can see on the screen.

Restors point is right in this case.

all they think about is "As long as it good/As long as it work".

There is nothing else you should care about.

 

[Septimus]

Ok, nice, but that IS something you can actually notice when you're wathching the cinematic, not something you can see only when opening the map in WE

In my opinion, his comment was 50% right. If you do not set the trigger properly, you won't get the result you want. A good example would be animation and camera.

Try set the trigger at poor standard, you won't get the result you want. That is what I get if I do not try to figure out how to fix the animation error in this cinematic. If you want to create a map with a extremely high standard such as The Spirit of Vengeance, you would need a good coding to do so.

There is nothing else you should care about.

That is why some map have long loading duration, larger file size or lag due to ineffective coding.

If you always try to learn how to optimize your coding, you would soon realize the big contribution it does to your map.

 

[Conlan]

lets check this out..

 

[Kisame]

This is based on Battle realms isnt it, But it has Masamune Date in it, I'm very confused!

 

[Septimus]

Nope, I use the image preview from battle realm game since it look good.

 

[Lord.DarthVader]

Awesome movie but beeter make playable version will be great because this looks perfect.

 

[HFR]

Wow, an playable map will be amazing! It can be like an Rpg, the player controls Masamune and travel trough cities, mountains and the forest to find Murasame, that is the final boss. Before the final battle, he have to make several sidequests to reach his goal.

 

[Wright]

very nice music, camera angles, and spell effects. Very entertaining to watch, 5/5. Those sneaky ninjas.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

how come ur map isn't listed in the cinematics section : /

wat is goin on :F

 

[Kitabatake]

A couple of things got me puzzled here...

1. Your map preview image is a portrait of the main character from Battle Realms AND your cinematic is named after him, yet the cinematic has nothing to do with the whole game?
2. Also you portrait Masamune as evil and Murasame as good in your story, although in the legends it's the other way around?
   Legends of Masamune and Murasama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[thedeathunterxx]

lol,

i dont think septimus should be restricted by battle realms. he can do what ever he wants with these characters.

thats probably why its so good. Its original in a sence.

 

[Septimus]

To Kitabatake : Sorry about the confusion, let me explain it to you.

ur map preview image is a portrait of the main character from Battle Realms AND your cinematic is named after him, yet the cinematic has nothing to do with the whole game?

I was using the image from Battle Realm as it was a rather good mini-map preview, I been trying to find a much better image but there is none of it suitable for a japanese theme map.

As for the name, I forgot there is a character from Battle Realm using the name Kenji as well. So, there is a obvious clash of the name which eventually mistaken by everybody; rendering them thinking this somehow related to Battle Realm.

Also you portrait Masamune as evil and Murasame as good in your story, although in the legends it's the other way around?

No, this doesn't related to the legends. Infact, that legend was related to Murasame and Masasama. Infact you read the description carefully, you would notice it was about Murasame and Masamune.

Hope this clear up some confusion.

 

[Tassadaritze]

5/5
all things is amazing!!

 

[Falconeye]

This shows alot of work and dedication.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

wow. someone should -rep monoflauta. u have no valid reason to give him a 1

its pretty obvious warcraft can have movies >.>
have you ever played the campaigns? has movies in it.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

im not going to flame this thread, and so be it. you can believe what ever crazy things you can believe. Just dont ruin it for everyone because of your inability to expand your imagination past normal gameplay >.>

 

[Septimus]

sorry but warcraft isnt for movies

To be honest, you must be living in a stone age or never play warcraft 3 at all. There is a existense of such a map which we usually called it a cinematic.

You give it a rating 1 just because it was a cinematic it's not only a abuse of rating system, but because you want to rant your anger out of me for telling you of what's wrong with your resources.

 

[Zacharias]

+ complex camera paths
+ short but not boring
- terrain could be a bit better, it looks too unvaried
- at the beginning you showed the richness of detail on the character, i´m missing this during the fight (enclose your camera paths to the warriors)
- how about adding fog? or other weather effects? (rain+thunder... wohoo )

Altogether its a good sequence, but it i´m missing some details. Camera movement is sometimes a bit diffusing (unintentional).
4/5


Edit: Btw: Regarding the lag at the final effect waves: i don´t know if it works, but try preloading your effects during map initialization by casting them somewhere on the map once. That works for heros, maybe it works for special effects too.

 

[Septimus]

- terrain could be a bit better, it looks too unvaried

The terrain is as good as it was, doing it according to your way was likely to make it look unnatural.

- at the beginning you showed the richness of detail on the character, i´m missing this during the fight (enclose your camera paths to the warriors)

There is many times the camera did that. If you view it carefully especially at the scenario where a slow motion have occur, you would notice the camera get close to it to give a specific view.

- how about adding fog? or other weather effects? (rain+thunder... wohoo )

There is a fog, open the map with World Editor and go to Map Property option and you would notice it. If you view the first screenshot (The beginning of the cinematic), you would notice it was quite foggy.

And no, it was the most ridiculous thing to add a weather effects such as rain or thunder. Infact, there is a lot of 1 vs 1 battle cinematic which the battle took place on rainy day.

Just imagine, before or the beginning of a battle and a rain occur? It doesn't make sense if every cinematic you seen have this setup.

This map definitely not another cheap brand of it, the battle took place at foggy night instead of just another daylight or daynight during the stormy day.

Altogether its a good sequence, but it i´m missing some details. Camera movement is sometimes a bit diffusing (unintentional).
4/5

Because you did not watch it carefully. The camera movement speed and distance was according to the speed and motion.

When there is a slow motion, the camera usually move slow and get as close as possible to the character or else it would stay far and move in rapid speed to follow the rhym of the music.

You miss a lot of detail because you did not watch it carefully, try watch again.

Edit: Btw: Regarding the lag at the final effect waves: i don´t know if it works, but try preloading your effects during map initialization by casting them somewhere on the map once. That works for heros, maybe it works for special effects too.

I do not experience any lag. I even host this map at LAN/Internet with 5 people and none of them complain. Infact, bounty hunter2 who have a poor computer said he experience no lag at all.

 

[Zacharias]

If you wouldn´t like your terrain, you wouldn´t publish it. I just wanted to show you my point of view, constructive cristism. If you think its nonsense, forget it. I don´t want to anger you, that´s not why i reported those things.

I viewed it several times, still the same points i miss.

It´s my point of view. Stop act like your mum complained about it, it´s me

 

[Septimus]

If you wouldn´t like your terrain, you wouldn´t publish it. I just wanted to show you my point of view, constructive cristism

It isn't my terrain, look at the credit list.

I just wanted to show you my point of view, constructive cristism

A constructive critism must be accurate just like bounty hunter2 was, what I am telling you was the thing you did not notice during the ingame.

that´s not why i reported those things.

Report it for what? I just explain why I do not do it that way and what you are missing, that's all.

It´s my point of view. Stop act like your mum complained about it, it´s me

Who is acting? I just told you to watch it again carefully as you might had miss the point, nothing wrong with it.