Beyond the Dark Portal (WIP)

[gaurdian of the flame]

at last anew campaign i will test it now

 

[Redbody]

Great I don't really like Warcraft II's balance too

 

[knight26]

Hey I just checked out the Test map!

I must say I am impressed by the ability choices, and overall build. I assume we could choose melee, ranged and caster units ingame? And probably it would be as a quest thing?
I really like the whole idea you had there, it seems like it could've been a true masterpiece. Some abilities might be unbalanced, such as the peon capture building, but perhaps that was meant for a specific scenario.

Might I ask, what went wrong with this campaign not reaching completion? It really has potential, possibly on par with some of the best campaigns here. Especially if it's based on a novel or a book.

 

[Xetanth87]

I must say I am impressed by the ability choices, and overall build. I assume we could choose melee, ranged and caster units ingame? And probably it would be as a quest thing?

It would only be for Melee, Ranged, Casters, Dragons and maybe Wolfriders (maybe they would be either Raiders or Farseers).

I really like the whole idea you had there, it seems like it could've been a true masterpiece. Some abilities might be unbalanced, such as the peon capture building, but perhaps that was meant for a specific scenario.

Peon capture was meant for mission 3 only. Originally in this mission you started with 3 unupgraded towers. Because of Warcraft 3 gameplay, orcs can't upgrade towers so instead I concieved the idea of the Towers and the Great Hall being neutral and you having to capture them with Warsong Peons (Grom and his clan would come to Gratar, Dentarg and Kargath's aid after the Thunderlords betray them). Also a Mak'Gora between Grom and Hurkan would happen in that mission

Might I ask, what went wrong with this campaign not reaching completion? It really has potential, possibly on par with some of the best campaigns here. Especially if it's based on a novel or a book.

I haven't managed to read the full book as I was getting bored and scared of how I could follow the book lore while also having the original mission intros and missions play out. You can also see that I really lack terraining or cinematic talent. Also I am a busy guy.

 

[knight26]

I haven't managed to read the full book as I was getting bored and scared of how I could follow the book lore while also having the original mission intros and missions play out. You can also see that I really lack terraining or cinematic talent. Also I am a busy guy.

Oh, but some originality never hurts a good gameplay! So don't be afraid if you want to get a little creative and go out of the way for the sake of better gameplay.

Ahh.. Yeah I can understand busy, but still, you seem to have the foundation in order, all you're lacking here is to put it together to a proper campaign. Perhaps the areas where you lack talent, could be helped by another Hiver here? Have you tried asking for help? You don't need to carry the burden all on your own, you know.

I seriously wish to see this happen, especially with these amazing heroes, and different choices you've setup. I love the whole concept, and I'd dare to say that the hardest part is done, all you need is time for terraining, triggering, etc.

Well if not you, I hope someone who has abilities and free time, picks this up and makes a decent campaign worthy of this idea!

 

[Xetanth87]

Oh, but some originality never hurts a good gameplay! So don't be afraid if you want to get a little creative and go out of the way for the sake of better gameplay.

I got creative with Gratar, which contradicts canon. Gratar and "The Slayer of the Shadowmoon" are 2 distinct characters that appear only in the first chapter of the book and the the first Wc2 Expansion mission respecively. I combined them into a hero and gave him a shaman model and as voice I got Dota 2's Lycan which had many wolf related quotes so I had to make him wolf-themed and so now he's kinda like Fenris Wolfbrother. I took a lot of creative liberties like Ghouls and Shamans, Warlocks and Shadow Priests.

Ahh.. Yeah I can understand busy, but still, you seem to have the foundation in order, all you're lacking here is to put it together to a proper campaign.

Also I don't have the foundation in order. The Tech Tree for orcs is almost complete but lacks in a few places. I don't want to talk about the human tech tree. I have not touched it one bit. Except for Paladins, Ballistas and Clerics. Though they don't appear in the first missions so it's not that important. Also I don't know how to make a campaign A.I.

I know I could ask others, but this will take time, and I don't have enough time to chat with a terrainer, cinematic designer and and AI designer. Also Reforged is coming and I don't know how it will affect it.

I've started improving the Intro Cinematic, and will try to make small progress until someone picks it up from me (People should tell me before making changes so I can give them the latest version). Be sure to leave feedback on what you think should be improved mainly mission 1 and spells. I am only going to update things that are in missions 1-3. So leave suggestions only for those things. I personally hate Teron's and Ner'zhul's kits, but I won't change them until they appear in a mission.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Was this strictly a Horde campaign or at which point would you play Alliance?

 

[Xetanth87]

Was this strictly a Horde campaign or at which point would you play Alliance?

I wanted to do Horde first then work on the Alliance. I had ideas for that campaign too. In this campaign you only play the orc missions of Warcraft 2 Expansion so no race switching between missions.

 

[knight26]

Was this strictly a Horde campaign or at which point would you play Alliance?

You got legendary users commenting, I'm telling you this had potential!

I wanted to do Horde first then work on the Alliance. I had ideas for that campaign too. In this campaign you only play the orc missions of Warcraft 2 Expansion so no race switching between missions.

Good luck, if you ever decide to finish it

 

[Xetanth87]

You got legendary users commenting, I'm telling you this had potential!

I know I'm pretty surprised oh how much positive feedback I have gotten on this. I never imagined people would like this so much. I'll try to work on the first three missions and the intro cinematic.

 

[OutsiderXE]

I have made a few campaigns based on books in my time ... Using WC3 style gameplay with a mix of WC2 and the novel is exactly what I would have done. If you need any advice I would be glad to give it. One thing I can say right away is, do gameplay first. Forget cinematics, terrain and details. If you know the story, tech-trees and general gameplay idea for each map, make the maps (one at a time) playable. Once you have something to play with, motivation increased dramatically, at least for me. It allows allows you to change gameplay as necessary without being bothered by terrain.

 

[Xetanth87]

I have made a few campaigns based on books in my time ... Using WC3 style gameplay with a mix of WC2 and the novel is exactly what I would have done. If you need any advice I would be glad to give it. One thing I can say right away is, do gameplay first. Forget cinematics, terrain and details. If you know the story, tech-trees and general gameplay idea for each map, make the maps (one at a time) playable. Once you have something to play with, motivation increased dramatically, at least for me. It allows allows you to change gameplay as necessary without being bothered by terrain.

Thanks for the insight. You are a huge inspiration for my idea. I really like how you made the Lord of the Clans and Day of the Dragon campaigns and I wanted to do something similar. I will try to make gameplay first. The only problem with gameplay is that I'm not really sure how to make AI scripts.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Thanks for the insight. You are a huge inspiration for my idea. I really like how you made the Lord of the Clans and Day of the Dragon campaigns and I wanted to do something similar. I will try to make gameplay first. The only problem with gameplay is that I'm not really sure how to make AI scripts.

I hate the AI editor so I use triggers instead. This leads to some other complicated mess* but for simple things it works.

1. Order enemy peons to gather gold and lumber (this is just for show, ultimately my AI cheats and gets free gold)
2. Make sure enemy has enough supply
3. Periodically order enemy structures to train units
4. Save trained units in a unit group and ignore their guard position
5. Order the unit group to attack
6. Repeat from Step 3

My AI never rebuilds as I find it annoying anyway.

* Some questions that always cause a headache for me:
- Using zeppelins, transport ships, naval units or way gates is more complicated - what happens if they get destroyed along the way?
- How does AI handle spellcasters? e.g. will they continue attack-moving towards the player base after casting an Earthquake?

 

[deepstrasz]

6. Repeat from Step 3

Really now, what about abilities and strategy?

@Xetanth87
AI Editor
JASS/AI Scripts Tutorials
Maybe something you could use.

Or maybe @Shar Dundred could give some insight?

 

[OutsiderXE]

Really now, what about abilities and strategy?

@Xetanth87
AI Editor
JASS/AI Scripts Tutorials
Maybe something you could use.

Or maybe @Shar Dundred could give some insight?

Yes. I am also in serious need of some AI tutorials. Maybe I will get into it more with Reforged. As a basis I see my proposed steps as sufficient. A map can work with that and abilities and strategy can be added later.

 

[deepstrasz]

Yes. I am also in serious need of some AI tutorials. Maybe I will get into it more with Reforged. As a basis I see my proposed steps as sufficient. A map can work with that and abilities and strategy can be added later.

True but your campaigns aren't that melee heavy. I advise using the AI editor at least for the basics or occasional stuff like spell casting, expanding, nothing complex though.
Too bad, you can't shut an AI script down or even better replace it with another. Once you apply it, you can't turn back unless you paralyze said computer player.
I had to use triggers like you for the first part of a map of mine and afterwards turn those off and run the AI script which was designed to make that computer player use all its forces (base and all). Using triggers is quite OK and good for skirmishes but not whole army battles because it's a pain to code.

EDIT:
Maybe these will help more with abilities:
Making Your Own Simple AoS AI
How to make an AI for your map
Simple Triggered Hero Artificial Intelligence in GUI
The AI Editor
Creating simple AIs for Hero Arena-type maps - Wc3C.net
AI Manual
Creating AI workflow
Intermidiate AI concepts - boring no longer

And other useful stuff:
Must Have Campaign AI Programming Techniques
Base abilities for custom spells cast by melee-game AI units

 

[knight26]

I have made a few campaigns based on books in my time ... .

HAH! Now now, lookie you being all modest and stuff. No worries champ, we all know you make the best original/creative campaigns out there.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Hah, I tried to play it off as an old guy trying to pass my knowledge to a younger generation

 

[Xetanth87]

Update 1: Almost complete Chapter 2. Lacks good terrain and cinematics, but is finished gameplay-wise.
Big thanks to deepstrasz and knight26 for their positive feedback, but most importantly to OutsiderXE, like a blessing from the gods, he came and gave me the perfect idea of how to avoid having to write AI scripts. I took inspiration from the last mission of DotD for the attack moving. (@OutsiderXE I hope you are ok with this) Didn't find out how you replaced the attack waves so I brainstormed the trigger myself.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Project is obviously in its early phase so there is no point in giving a review but goodness gracious you've poured some time in those abilities...They legit got me hooked on the map and now i cant wait to play more of it...Keep it up dude,I am dying to see more of those custom made abilities...

Just one thing please implement the QWER hotkeys for spellcasters,heros and units with abilities alike...Its far more easier to manage them that way.

 

[Xetanth87]

Just one thing please implement the QWER hotkeys for spellcasters,heros and units with abilities alike...Its far more easier to manage them that way.

Training, building and upgrading will have QWER hotkeys.
Hero and unit abilities will have ZXCV hotkeys

Edit: I myself play Warcraft III with QWER/ASDF/ZXCV hotkeys so in my opinion it's better if I make the hotkeys for the abilities ZXCV.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Training, building and upgrading will have QWER hotkeys.
Hero and unit abilities will have ZXCV hotkeys

Edit: I myself play Warcraft III with QWER/ASDF/ZXCV hotkeys so in my opinion it's better if I make the hotkeys for the abilities ZXCV.

I think QWER is the modern standard for hero and unit abilities, as can be seen in MOBAs, SC2 campaign (Kerrigan), or modern WC3 campaigns. It may be because I am left-handed but I also feel more comfortable using QWER instead of ZBVC. Also, on german keyboards the positions of Y and Z are swapped. When creating hotkey layouts I use XBVC for the bottom row, but only for tech-trees/units that have more than one row.

 

[DD Mikasa]

@OutsiderXE Sumed it up but I'd like to add some additional stuff.

For one QWER is more comfortable sinc its closer to hotkeys 1 2 3 4 5 the one we use to asigne controll groups and closer to attack,hold and stop hotkeys which makes it more easier to control larg armies...Not to to mention it can be coupled with hotkeys D and F for the other two spells.

Overall a QWER for spells would be more optional imo.

 

[knight26]

I can also confirm as being left handed that QWER is better, especially with a german keyboard as aforementioned!

 

[Xetanth87]

@OutsiderXE Sumed it up but I'd like to add some additional stuff.

For one QWER is more comfortable sinc its closer to hotkeys 1 2 3 4 5 the one we use to asigne controll groups and closer to attack,hold and stop hotkeys which makes it more easier to control larg armies...Not to to mention it can be coupled with hotkeys D and F for the other two spells.

Overall a QWER for spells would be more optional imo.

I know what you are saying, but most of the spells are already bound to ZXCV. It was the first thing I've done with every spell I've made. I might redo the bindings, but it's not a priority. Also I want to make it compatible with my setup, so I don't use F since that's the Plus Button. The middle spells would be T and D. (you can see this on Dentarg which has his Copy Spell bound to T)

 

[eubz]

Really? A WIP can now be submitted in the map section? I think the rules hasn't been changed yet.

 

[Xetanth87]

Really? A WIP can now be submitted in the map section? I think the rules hasn't been changed yet.

It was originally labeled unfinished, because I didn't want to continue with it, but I got positive feedback so I started working on it and kept updating it. So I had to change the name to WIP

 

[eubz]

It was originally labeled unfinished, because I didn't want to continue with it, but I got positive feedback so I started working on it and kept updating it. So I had to change the name to WIP

I guess we have the Map Development Section where you can get feedbacks while updating and polishing MAP WIPS.

 

[Xetanth87]

First Two chapters are complete. Second one needs a transmission to be reworked into a cinematic, but other than that it is complete. I will now work on just the third chapter and the prologue. After finishing them, I will not continue it since I will be quite busy the following months.

Edit: Prologue Cinematic complete. Next I'm going to finish the third chapter.

 

[fantocan]

Can not open the map, it only shows a window "the maps was saved by the editor, and it might not be compatible" something like that.

Sad, I wanted to try it.

 

[Xetanth87]

Can not open the map, it only shows a window "the maps was saved by the editor, and it might not be compatible" something like that.

Sad, I wanted to try it.

Be sure to use the latest version of Warcraft 3.

 

[Formidable10]

Wow, I really love the work your doing for this campaign. Kinda bummed it isn't finished yet, it's better to not rush a quality campaign. As someone whose collaborated with map creators on similar Orcish themed campaigns, I can appreciate the amount of fun your able to pack in yours missions even if their mission design is a tad bit simple (lack of side quests does leave a little to be desired though). Which I suspect is intentional due to the simplistic nature of the original Beyond the Dark Portal campaign. As well as having the gameplay be more warcraft 3 based than warcraft 2 based, I was never a fan of the original two games in terms of balance.

Good work .

 

[fantocan]

Be sure to use the latest version of Warcraft 3.

I am, I auto update just entering Bnet.

 

[Xetanth87]

lack of side quests does leave a little to be desired though

You mean a lot to be desired . I am not a great map maker, so I tried to keep things simple. Though looking at the Warcraft 3 original campaigns, I saw that its cinematics weren't very complex either. So in terms of cinematics I think they are not that bad. I tend to make maps smaller than they should be. So I have trouble fitting side quests.

Which I suspect is intentional due to the simplistic nature of the original Beyond the Dark Portal campaign. As well as having the gameplay be more warcraft 3 based than warcraft 2 based, I was never a fan of the original two games in terms of balance.

Well it's a bit hard to turn Wc2 missions into Wc3 onces since they are non linear (in mission 2 you can walk into the enemies base before rescuing the thunderlord base) and have little to no terrain other than water, rocks and trees. Though it's also a good thing because I have the map layout already created, I just need to replicate and improved. Also I want to make the storyline more coherent (Mission 2 Allies with Thunderlords, Mission 3 Thunderlords are enemies without explanation is very strange and it is very strange how I tried to explain it in the cinematic)
I will do updates from time to time, but I think Chapter 3 will be the last chapter that gets fully Completed. I might make an Interlude and a rough Chapter 4, but won't work too much on in sadly.

I am, I auto update just entering Bnet.

Try to open it with the latest ptr version then

 

[Formidable10]

You mean a lot to be desired . I am not a great map maker, so I tried to keep things simple. Though looking at the Warcraft 3 original campaigns, I saw that its cinematics weren't very complex either. So in terms of cinematics I think they are not that bad. I tend to make maps smaller than they should be. So I have trouble fitting side quests.



Well it's a bit hard to turn Wc2 missions into Wc3 onces since they are non linear (in mission 2 you can walk into the enemies base before rescuing the thunderlord base) and have little to no terrain other than water, rocks and trees. Though it's also a good thing because I have the map layout already created, I just need to replicate and improved. Also I want to make the storyline more coherent (Mission 2 Allies with Thunderlords, Mission 3 Thunderlords are enemies without explanation is very strange and it is very strange how I tried to explain it in the cinematic)
I will do updates from time to time, but I think Chapter 3 will be the last chapter that gets fully Completed. I might make an Interlude and a rough Chapter 4, but won't work too much on in sadly.

I am bit bummed you aren't working on this campaign further. I can understand why you want to do something else. I had a good time playing the first couple of missions, despite their simplicity. Anyway, if you need someone to test a new campaign/map let me know.

 

[Daffa]

Is this developed further or not? Just want to be certain.

 

[Xetanth87]

Is this developed further or not? Just want to be certain.

I'm going to complete Chapter 3 and the Interlude after it and that will be it.

 

[eubz]

Just a reminder:

5. Complete Release
When uploaded, the map must be out of the developmental or alpha stage. You may still add onto a map after updates, but the upload should be a full release. ALPHA and early-BETA versions, "teasers/trailers", etc. can be posted in Map Development. Furthermore, do not upload maps and use it as a request thread. If you want a user to add something to your map for you (system, etc.), then please make a thread in WEHZ.

 

[Xetanth87]

Just a reminder:

Sorry man. I wanted to release this as an incomplete project so someone may download it and continue it. But now I've started working on it. What do you want me to do? Take it down until I finish it? If it's possible to hide it, I will until I finish it.

 

[deepstrasz]

Just a reminder:

Well, that's what I thought until I was pretty much more than told that even a one map campaign should be approved.

 

[Daffa]

I'm going to complete Chapter 3 and the Interlude after it and that will be it.

Putting this in awaiting update for now then. Please finish the remaining maps.

 

[Xetanth87]

Putting this in awaiting update for now then. Please finish the remaining maps.

Alright. Good idea. Though it will take some time until I finish it. If I make a full release with just 3 Chapters, 2 Interludes that work as intentended, and I hide the Unit Tester will it count as a finished release?

 

[arman193]

I test this campaign and its have bug
I cant see this campaign in Custom campaign of game
But otjer campaigns not have problem
So other friend tell its just my problem
Or all have problem? /

 

[Xetanth87]

I test this campaign and its have bug
I cant see this campaign in Custom campaign of game
But otjer campaigns not have problem
So other friend tell its just my problem
Or all have problem? /

Be sure to use latest patch and be sure to put it in Documents\Warcraft III\Campaigns. If you are doing everything correctly then I have no idea what could be wrong. I have never encountered this problem with any campaign

 

[eubz]

Please, update the map with your final version as this has been labeled as WIP and violates hive rules.

AWAITING UPDATE

 

[eubz]

Could you please remove that WIP words in your title?

 

[deepstrasz]

Could you please remove that WIP words in your title?

But it is work in progress as mentioned in the description.

 

[eubz]

So, this will not be approved until finalized.

 

[deepstrasz]

So, this will not be approved until finalized.

Well Ralle wrote that even 1 map campaigns should be approved if the map is finished and working.