Battle For Outland v2.0a

[ashbringer753]

Review:
-blood elves:they are too close to the original human race.some units are pointless(huntress,hyppogriph rider)the crusader's holy light doesn't work on all naga units such as the royal guard(in my opinion you should make it work on the demons instead of nagas).for BE buildings:http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=93362 and
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=93365 and http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=93925

-Draenei:good overall could use some caster with autocast and u definitely need to find an altar model and in my opinion the purple salamander model would be better

-legion:a bit stronger than the other races as you have access to high end units such as doomguard soon.Also you can train the same hero twice.Make food more accessible and the enigma's hotkey for fly mode is "A"(attack)fix it plz.

-naga:units are ok.however buildings are a mix of undead/Night elf and naga buildings.try to lower the building count in order to maximize positive feeling about your map.also when you upgrade the moonwell into a tower it loses the ability to heal.

-fel orcs:that you should work more on the heroes and casters.Also the end unit shouldnt be an ogre try to use this per instance:http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...=chaos%20tauren&d=list&r=20&u=General%20Frank.(lorewise orcs and ogres werent allies anymore after the second war)

 

[Rafinius]

I am bothering to point out the imperfections of your map only because I like it so much and see even more potential. I feel that many similarities between your units and the original warcraft 3 units seem senseless and forced. I will review every race separately and start with the Draenei for now.


The vindicators splash ability seems to be missing on the unit itself.

I'd give piercing damage to the Assassins as their tooltip says they are exceptional against air units and the whole race have only 1 piercing unit as of now.

I really don't like the demolishers. They don't fit to the draenei. I think giving the salamanders or Elekks a kind of siege attack would fit much better. If they have to have a long-range unit switch the demolishers with the orcs catapult and vice versa. Also give it back it's normal burning oil spell if you do that.

I have a feeling that something is kinda imba with the draenei having so many +damage upgrades but I'm not sure about that. Also both the rites of passage and vengeance upgrades aren't working on all units they say that they work. Please be more specific with the tooltips.

I couldn't find any upgrade labeled unbroken might in the holy armory.

The boulder towers really don't look like boulder towers and piercing boulders are weird anyways. I suggest making them fire beams (preferably purple) and calling them different.

The hutt is the most boring food producing building I've ever seen. Also it's tooltip still mentions food existing in other buildings, which is not true anymore.

I agree with the people saying that the altar model isn't the best, but that's low priority.

The Abolisher is a nice unit but it's the 4th low range, low life normal type damage unit, and the 5th normal type damage melee attacker overall.

I like the disciple, but he uses his spirit touch ability to regenerate himself while it actually uses more mana than giving him. That's just not right. I vote for making it not able to target self.

I already said that the salamander could get splash damage and count as a siege unit (the mountain giant does that too), but I have more to say about it. It's contradictory that a ranged unit gets the role of the tank, especially if the race has such a great tank as the Elekk Vindicator. Also while the night elves don't have any other real tank and start out with archers, your draenei have the normal vindicators that with their 650 hp make decent damage absorbers by themselves. To tell the truth I don't really like the salamanders, but I don't have any good idea at the moment with what to replace them. If you keep them I vote to remake them into original mid-ranged siege units. Also change their missile model. Lightning (especially fired out of the center of their back) is not a salamander thing, fire is.

The shadewalkers are cool but maybe a bit OP. Also I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to give them fortified armor with the elite upgrade, seeing that they seem to be light rogues and not armored with a block of stone.

I'd like to know exactly what role you intended to give to the Seer's before any upgrades are done. I guess they are kind of anti-heavy harassers/hunters but I still want to hear your answer.

The elekks seem to have no purpose at all except merging with vindicators to create the awesomely named "Elekk Vindicators" . At least the night elves merging units had a reason to dismerge (they are much better in air to air combat). Also weird is that the elekk and the elekk vindicator don't have splash damage while attacking with freaking tusks and the basic melee attackers (vindicators) have it. I would give splash to the elekks instead and give them a bit more hitpoints and give some defensive ability to the vindicators that would fit their role as defenders of draenei kind and basic paladinism (don't just give them defend, better give them something like the nightelves archers ability). Then when they merge they should keep the splash and instead of the basic defensive ability they should get an aura or an AoE shout. So the idea is that while the vindicators and elekks separately have more hitpoints and the elekks maybe even have siege attacks against buildings, when you combine them you get this very strong and useful unit that improves all your surrounding units. Don't forget to fix the bug of the elekk vindicator costing 1 less food than the 2 separated, and seriously, change its name.

The nether dragons are just awesome but I have no idea if they are too strong or too easily countered or something.

Now about the heroes:

The unbroken paladins fury blast doesn't do what it says, and the ultimate still says mountain king.
Also the draenei never had druids. A priest (with the normal paladins ulti) or shaman hero would be much more fitting IMO. Lastly the unbroken mages ultimate's model is far too inappropriate to the effect (i.e looks stronger) and the icon even more so (i.e. looks weaker). Make both look like rain of fire.

All in all the draenei are a nicely balanced race and my favorite till now. They just lack anti air capacity and have no way to reveal enemies before getting seers with adept research. maybe give their towers magic sentry (fits with their magical nature and the fire on their roofs).

I will review the other races later (tomorrow or something) and if you have any specific questions about what I mean just ask them.

 

[MogulKahn]

Rafinius i think Ghost abandon this map and he started new project called "Blood Raven".I think this map is much more better (for me).

 

[Rafinius]

@MogulKhan: I think GhostThruster hasn't abandoned it but has "fkn school". 1 thing reinforcing this is that he didn't come online since 02-28-2010 05:13 AM

 

[GhostThruster]

I haven't abondoned this map. School has delayed me and my computer has broken down. I promise, version 2.1 will be revamped and awesomelicious, with totally unique races different from their counterparts and more in depth descriptions. Sorry for the absence. Rafinius +rep.
Mogul, I abandoned Blood Raven and I think this map would be better too.

 

[MogulKahn]

Eric, I really hope so !

 

[Dj0z]

with totally unique races different from their counterparts and more in depth descriptions.

PM me when it's done.

 

[Rafinius]

Well I guess I'll review the other races during your holidays. Keep up the good work and say hi once in a while so we know you didn't get abducted by aliens.

 

[GhostThruster]

Hi. Here's an update of what I've come up with:
Blood Elves-They are totally dependent on mana and manipulate it to their advantage.
Fel Orcs-They have very strong foot soldiers, but are weak in all other areas.
Naga-They are excellent at en massing, but very weak in the beginning.
Draenei-They are versatile, though they have a talent for healing.
Legion-They gain power through sacrificing units, and have strong attacks.

 

[Hunter9G]

Sounds awsome can't wait for update.

 

[MogulKahn]

When ll come new version?

 

[Rafinius]

hmm... I actually don't think that you must totally change your races..especially after having put an extensive amount of work into the current version..
In my opinion you should keep the races you have but change them gradually so that they still are balanced but become more unique.
In case you still want to do it, don't keep the races too focused on one aspect because that will make the races very hard to balance and in the worst case, boring to play. For example having only strong footsoldiers means that either your imba at the start and easily overrun your enemies, or you are easily outmaneuvered by only one strategy and that your race becomes useless once your enemies have learned that.

P.S.: Tell me if your going to heavily remake the races so that I don't bother reviewing the current ones. On the other hand if you want me to anyways review them to give you some ideas, just say so.

 

[GhostThruster]

I'd be glad if you could keep giving me ideas. Even though the races are incredibly different, they are balanced, believe me. For instance, the Naga are horrible early in-game because all they get are Mur'gul, however they have 3 Tier 1 units to compensate and the Legion is built on the sacrifice of units to make them stronger, this may seem that they will lack in numbers, but as you can see even in this current version, they are really powerful and imbalanced anyway. Due date might be half a year.

 

[Rafinius]

So how is it going? Still going to school? Or just as lazy as me when it comes to map making?
I'm not going to review the old version, but I'll resume helping (with suggestions only ) as soon as you post a new version.

 

[GhostThruster]

It will be a long while... Well, I'll be a bit more active for 2 weeks, as school is out.

 

[Ryaku]

I like it but... the map i think i know it already

 

[Modrenlajus]

Nice

 

[GhostThruster]

Outland - reboot
The Techtree Contest 4 has inspired me to reboot this map.
The races -
Blood Elf - a magically adept race. They are masters at wielding mana and fire magic.
Strength - great at manipulating/countering magic.
Demon - a very aggressive race. They love jumping into fights and bloodbaths.
Strength - running headfirst into battle, and coming out victorious.
Naga - a counter-defense race. They use anything to encumber the enemy.
Strength - slow, en masse, stun etc. anything that wears down the enemy.
Draenei - defensive/support race. They're good in combination and healing.
Strength - survival, and overall defensive strength.

Coming soon to a Hive Workshop map section near you.

 

[MogulKahn]

Outland - reboot
The Techtree Contest 4 has inspired me to reboot this map.
The races -
Blood Elf - a magically adept race. They are masters at wielding mana and fire magic.
Strength - great at manipulating/countering magic.
Demon - a very aggressive race. They love jumping into fights and bloodbaths.
Strength - running headfirst into battle, and coming out victorious.
Naga - a counter-defense race. They use anything to encumber the enemy.
Strength - slow, en masse, stun etc. anything that wears down the enemy.
Draenei - defensive/support race. They're good in combination and healing.
Strength - survival, and overall defensive strength.

Coming soon to a Hive Workshop map section near you.

 

[Sunshine and Night]

Can i see which models you use for the draenei

 

[clockwork2]

the maps revealed is this intentional GhosThruster?

 

[Renly Baratheon]

Great altered melee. Maybe you can make other maps using the same races but different terrain.

 

[CptnAwesome89]

This map is still enjoyed by me, even if I am a few years late to the party. I love it.

 

[stein123]

Now that the mb limit is a ghost from the past X'D, will you release an unprotected version?

 

[Lordlycan]

enjoyable for sure but the balance is a thing here.

 

[Caio Veiga]

How to play with legion?