Battle For Outland v2.0a

This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
What would happen after W3TFT if the WoW lore was not added? Who gives a shit? But anyway, here is what probably will happen. This map is an altered melee map based on the Deadlands map by Blizzard Entertainment. It features 4 races and 1 newly added race battle each other for control over Outland. Special thanks to MogulKhan, who helped me heaps by supplying me with ideas, complaints and resources. Have fun!

THIS MAP IS PROTECTED, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE FILE SIZE. IF YOU WANT THE UNPROTECTED VERSION TO TAKE A LOOK, PM ME AND GIVE ME YOUR EMAIL. Sorry.

Blood Elves[Humans]-Magically adept and balanced, though no real firepower
Fel Orcs[Orcs]-Excellent tankers but few tactics and quite costly
Naga[Undead]-Powerful units but very unbalanced techtree and bad support
Draenei[Night Elf]-Stealthy and very tactical, but lacking in firepower
Legion[Custom]-Very aggressive, but food is scarce in the start

<<<Change Log>>>
v1.8a
Legion half-finished
Removed victory/defeat
Draenei are Eredar only (no Broken)

v1.8b
Legion nearly finished
Rough victory/defeat triggers
Added trigger-based spells

v1.9a
Legion fully integrated
Perfected victory/defeat triggers
Added some new triggers
Scrapped Fel Bat and added Spore Bat

v1.9b
Changed some legion building models
Changed credits
Fixed minor spelling mistakes
Removed extra Spore Bat

v1.9c
Made whole map visible to compensate for v/d con.
Changed some legion building models
Changed draenei models
Added Broken Draenei worker
Fixed Void Walker harvesting
Fixed Aquaforge Barrage Cannon
Changed Flying Enigma to Flying Succubus

v2.0a
Changed Stone Enigma to Void Enigma
Added mana to Nether Beast
Changed Mana Drain's effects
Changed Ogre Mound model and icon
Fixed minor spelling errors
Fixed Huntress' Sentinel ability
Fixed Naga Carapace upgrades
Fixed Tidebaron's Drench
Changed Ogre's voice
Map is now protected


Keywords:
Battle, Outland, Draenei, Blood Elf, Fel Orc, Naga, Legion, Demon, Draenor, War, altered melee
Contents

Battle For Outland v2.0a (Map)

Reviews
08:01, 25th Dec 2009 ap0calypse: Approved
Level 6
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
220
Just tested it and these are what i've found

Legion:
Nether Beasts don't have mana.
One of the Eredar Sorcerer's names is Zarthel the Deadily. Deadly is written wrong. Check your Dictionary.
Blood Elves:
There is no Percing Daggers research but Huntress' Sentinel ability demands it.
Draenei:
In lore, Unbroken Draenei had huge hooves so they could'nt hide so you should remove Shadowmeld.
But the Broken Draenei can hide and add some of their units and give them the Shadowmeld not the Unbroken.
And you could add the Lost Ones.
And if you're removing Shadowmeld, remove the Moonstone too.
Naga:
Razorspine Carapace and Chitinous Carapace researches are switched.
There's a 0% thing on Tidebaron's Drench ability.
Temple Of Tides/Aquapolis/Nazjatar Citadel is still making Blight.
Give the Plainwalkers some fighting Power.
Fel Orcs:
Necromancer and Ogre Champions voice isn't suited. Change their voices.
Storm Bolt isn't matching Berserker's appearance. Change it to an axe or something.
Temple of the Damned doesn't have the suited model. Use some Undead Models.
 
The Draenei with Shadowmeld are females, and female Draenei are more nimble than males. Besides, in the map description I said the lore is different. Lost Ones aren't part of the Draenei. They are crazed from corruption. I like Moonstones. I don't know how to stop the blight. The role of Plainwalkers are, well, plain walkers. They are only scouts. I'll fix all the other stuff you mentioned. Thanks.
 
Level 14
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Sep 24, 2009
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1,473
Thats why i asked u how to take some1 rep.ap0calypse taked my cuz I flamed!I asked u how,cuz I was thinking 2 take his rep.He can take 1 but 5 OMG!And can u tell me anything about your new project?
 
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Level 7
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
170
Updating the map soon. Only moderators can take away rep. They can take 5, 10, 20, 100.

Awesome map :p here is a review :D

*Note I commanded the legion*


Pros:
Good customs
Everything seemed balanced
No bugs or glitches (That I found)
Terrain is awesome

Cons:
Description lacks gameplay info
In-game quest menu lacks gameplay info

Things to add to improve:
How to play - add it to your description on hive and ingame quest menu (F9 menu)

I'd do a full review but i found this map, really really bad as it did not tell you how to play. Because I was plying with mates on lan and i had to go to toilet I walked away and came back and said I was defeated and I was like wtf?


Fix the description, there are limitted credits and nothing that tells you how to play the game anywhere... If you need help on description go here:http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/importance-description-127031/#post1117301

No offence but when I was playing the game I thought I had to destroy the other teams, but obviously not cuz I randomly get defeated.

Awesome map,
Lag_Reviews

PS: Good luck with the map, Reviewing it properly when you tell us how to play it :D

1/5 stars cuz you do not tell us how to play.
 
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Level 16
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
1,387
the first thing that i hate is the lack of proper tooltips, either in the ability, the buildings, units etc..
Really man: "this is where the big guns are" is not a good tooltip, why dont u change it to smth like: "the naga elite forces"... ffs...
Otherwise, VERy entertaining map! :D
you would get the 5/5 if u changed the tooltips...
now its 4/5
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,473
Eric gj.We all love your map!I really want 2 see your new map(secret project)!^^
EDIT:Tested.I think u need 2 change few things.
1.For me map is always visible.
2.Overlord is still bugged.I can produce overlords without upgrade felguards into overlords!
3.I think u need 2 change 2-headed ogres models into one-headed!
 
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@Lag_Reviews: 1/5 a bit harsh. It isn't the map's fault you had to wizz/poop. And I thought everyone would know how to play, I said it is just like a melee game except with different races. So, all you do is left-click and right-click! No extra systems whatsoever.

@Knight26: Thanks for the review. I'll fix the 'big guns' right away.

@Mogul: I said in the changelog that the map is visible to compensate for the v/d conditions. Overlord thing should be fixed. I dunno. Ogres had two and one heads in Outland. Every ogre has two, except for the Stonemauls.

@Verhalthur: Once again, I said in the description that I didn't do the terrain. But thanks for the offer. I think the terrain is good enough, as Blizzard made it.

Thanks SonicFrenzy, and all the other dudes who played.
 
Level 7
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Dec 28, 2009
Messages
170
@Lag_Reviews: 1/5 a bit harsh. It isn't the map's fault you had to wizz/poop. And I thought everyone would know how to play, I said it is just like a melee game except with different races. So, all you do is left-click and right-click! No extra systems whatsoever.


I know it isn't your fault and I am sorry if it came across as being harsh. I just couldn't understand why when I went away from the computer for a minute I came back and it said I was defeated even though my base still stands and my units not dead?

Could you please explain this: Why when you leave your comp for 1minute, it tells you that you are defeated and your units/base are still alive?

Thanks for everything thing I didn't really mean to give it a 1 because it deserves alot more but it only gets a one cuz I randomly got defeated.

Thanks and awesome map,
Lag_Reviews

PS: Good luck bro! (Answer my question and I'll re-review it and re-rate it with pleasure :)
 
Ohhhhhhh. I thought you just really sucked or your enemies were awesome. That's an ingame bug, I'll try to fix it, but I've never had that happen. Maybe the optimizing stuffed it. I new, I new it! Protecting maps is never the key!

Mogul, man, I don't need one headers. They have a limited voice thing. Plus, don't you enjoy clicking the two heads and here 'I'm with stoopid, me too!'?
 
Level 7
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
170
Ohhhhhhh. I thought you just really sucked or your enemies were awesome. That's an ingame bug, I'll try to fix it, but I've never had that happen. Maybe the optimizing stuffed it. I new, I new it! Protecting maps is never the key!

Mogul, man, I don't need one headers. They have a limited voice thing. Plus, don't you enjoy clicking the two heads and here 'I'm with stoopid, me too!'?

Tyvm Hope you fix the bug, I'll give you the heads up to what I did to try and help you out.

I was playing as the legion and had a base, hero and an army. I was going round the map trying to level my hero/explore/test units when I needed to go to the toilet.

So, as I was playing with other people on LAN in my house, I decided to Alt Tab and go to windows screen so they couldn't see where my base was on the mini-map.

Then after a few minutes of being away I came back and it said I was defeated and I was like How? everyone was confused.

Anyhowz hope you can fix this buddy and then, I'll review,
Lag_Reviews

PS:How does a map with bugs get approved?
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,473
Man first u must give some proof fore that.U are only who have that problem.Maybe is your comp or something else.We need replay!If u dont have replay stfu.This I saying cuz i played in lan thousand times and i never had that problem!
 
Level 27
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Jan 26, 2007
Messages
4,788
PS:How does a map with bugs get approved?
Obviously it's a very rare bug... you're the only one (so far) who has experienced this problem.
On top of that: I do not play games to approve/reject them, this is to decrease the pending map list.
Approval/Rejection is based off user comments/ratings, the rules (description, credits etc) and the minimap, this map had enough positive comments and didn't violate any rule I could see without opening/playing the map.

Let's hope the creator fixes this bug...
 
Level 5
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
103
when we just happen to talk about bugs, do you know about that one that lets those who choose the burning legion choose the same hero every time he upgrades his "town hall"? or did you do that knowingly?

(excuse me if there are some errors in my grammar, i'm only a 14 year old norwegian...)
 
Level 14
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Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,473
I found few bugs.
1.Draenei paladin have his text from 1. skill bugged.
2.Necromancer(fel orc) his 2. skill only can sacrifice naga units.xD
3.Necromancer and Tide baron have same auras.(unholy)
P.S. u need 2 change skills icons for berserker!
 
Level 11
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
512
Okay, well...
Uhm...

1) This is not an altered melee, it's just a re-skinned one.
Importing a ton of models and skins to make a map grow as big as over 6 mb just for a fancy look is not much of a work.
Blizzard did everything, you basically just changed the color of it.
Plus it's heavy, long to dl due to massive imports.


2) Only the legion can make this qualify as altered melee, but its not even showing up in the pregame lobby, which is confusing.
Game starts, you're just instantly jumped on with that "legion yes/no" thing, with no explanations whatsoever.
Since its dialog-based, you can't even ask your experienced allies about it since pressing enter would count as clicking an answer.
Also, your way to make food "scarce at start" is painful. All building being SO big, while towers dont shoot any farther, just makes no sense for defense and management. Your screen can barely cover your base up even if you got just the basic builds.

Also the legion overall is damn lacking. Only 1 hero is custom, others are just from tavern or ladder undeads.


3) The bug mentioned by lag_reviews gotta be not so rare, it seems to have happened in one of the two tests i made.

How can a map with so few modifications and basically no custom spells (which means very few triggers overall) have a bug so violent?

I have nothing against you sir, and no intention to be harsh, but seriously, you could have put more work in this.

_____________________________________________
EDIT: Just realised map was not protected in 1.9. Here's some more:

4) Fix your coding. How good is creating TempGroups if you dont destroy them after use?

Use point variables and remove them afterwards aswell.

Use "unit starts effect of ability" or w/e it is in english instead of "finishes casting of" like in your demonlord thingy, especially since it's not channeling or anything.

Why use an "AllUnits" variable to count just town halls? That, is what TempGroup is for, ya know.
As a mapmaker, avoid using var names not fitting their use, else you may get lost in your own map eventually. You don't want that.

The RevealTown trigger launches a Reveal trigger, which is totally empty. . . . .

As i expected, the amount of triggers is very low, it would be very quick to fix these things, if only you just spend time learning proper mapmaking.


Overall, read "how to avoid lag" tutorials and things in that fashion i'd say.
 
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News flash bud, altered melee means re-skinned. What the hell do you want me to do? Use the Tauren Totem building as the Demon Town Hall? Blizzard has done everything. I changed the colour, yes. But then that means its an ALTERED MELEE nonetheless. I tried protecting the map to reduce the size.

"Only the legion can make this qualify as altered melee".
Yeah, okay. So, I've downloaded tons of blood elf, draenei, naga and fel orc models--but no! Not a single one counts as altering the map one bit? Bullf**k. Even changing mana regeneration rate by .01 is altering it, and although I only modified the units a bit, I did more than adding 0.01 to mana regen. Plus, races are supposed to be similar. Remeber in TFT Human campaign? The blood elves WERE the freakin' same as the humans. And Fel Orcs are the same as the Orcs, obviously!

In the start is says 'Command the Legion? Yes/No'. You can you not understand that? Its asking do you wanna command the legion or not? Honest to god, do I need to explain the gameplay? You do what you do in melee; right and left click. And here's another rebuttal to your complaint. Imagine Spawning Pitts giving 10 food and normal space. You could build a whole row of them and mass Enigmas early on. I'd say that's even more unbalanced than food scarcity early on. Plus, if you do survive the early stages, the Legion become uber-powerful.

But I've admitted before I was too lazy to fully change units/heroes. Also, I'm not good with jass or vjass, I use Gui. I go by the method 'simplicity is necessity'. I think when I protected the map, it screwed the scripting and created the defeat bug. Throughout your comment, you have said nothing positive. You're telling me nothing in this entire map appeals to you. You may think writing comments like that helps people, but the only thing that I really have learnt is to reduce lag by half a nano-second.

You may think I've taken offense very, very personally, but all I'm saying is that your post is on the verge of trolling. You've basically typed complaint after complaint and the only time your comment pointed something out is in your EDIT, which was made after you had made the rows of criticism. Read your comment, telling me about how crap the modifications were and how I have no features doesn't help at all. Give me some suggestions and ideas at least, not just negative feedback.

Your idea about the legion is also a very subjective opinion. You think it is horrid because 'Only 1 hero is custom' and because of playing a map the first time and -surprise- not understanding it! I've also given you sufficient reasons to why I've made things the way they are.

And why the hell would I overload it with triggers? You think I don't know crap about mapmakinh? This is an Altered Melee, you're not supposed to make so many triggers.
I got rid of the RevealTown and variables in this new version btw.

GhosT out.
 
Level 11
Joined
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Messages
512
News flash bud, altered melee means re-skinned. What the hell do you want me to do? Use the Tauren Totem building as the Demon Town Hall? Blizzard has done everything. I changed the colour, yes. But then that means its an ALTERED MELEE nonetheless. I tried protecting the map to reduce the size.

"Only the legion can make this qualify as altered melee".
Yeah, okay. So, I've downloaded tons of blood elf, draenei, naga and fel orc models--but no! Not a single one counts as altering the map one bit? Bullf**k. Even changing mana regeneration rate by .01 is altering it, and although I only modified the units a bit, I did more than adding 0.01 to mana regen. Plus, races are supposed to be similar. Remeber in TFT Human campaign? The blood elves WERE the freakin' same as the humans. And Fel Orcs are the same as the Orcs, obviously!

[...]

And why the hell would I overload it with triggers? You think I don't know crap about mapmakinh? This is an Altered Melee, you're not supposed to make so many triggers.
I got rid of the RevealTown and variables in this new version btw.

GhosT out.

Well since you seem to take this way too personally (did i call your map Bullsh**? why are you calling my review "Bullf**k" then. Should we start a flame war or sthg?), i'll just go shorter and less detailed:
-Altered melee actually means altered. When you change a unit's model color in the editor, unit is the same, recolored. Same idea.

-I have never said anything was wrong with protecting the map. And it's actually even totally okay.
*That said, we may notice the fact that the version i got was not protected allowed me to point out some coding flaws, and allowed you to therefore improve your coding for the future, which is a nice outcome.

-How do you think you're gonna make a custom race without anything triggered... You know that is impossible, since you actually used a couple triggers. Yet you talk about "altered melee needs no triggers" and stuff. Draw the line.

-You use GUI for simplicity. 'Kay. GUI =/= simplicity, just so you know. You can do very complicated things in GUI, just go see paladon's GUI spells in the spells sections for example. The fact of being not good at coding is a problem we All started with. You train yourself, it fixes, that's just how things work.
I mean you had enough time to place 4000+ doodads and import all these freaking models (includes researching-them time) yet you pretend having no time to try and code better? Lol.

-The protection didn't cause the bug, if it's in version 1.9b, which is not protected.

-Pointing out the positive that alot of less picky people have already pointed out (over 9 pages), is a waste of time. I rather say what has not already been said, way more useful.


Last note: if you don't want me to give any more criticism on this, just say it.
I wanna make maps and mapmakers better, flame wars have no point to me.
 
Level 27
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Jan 26, 2007
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4,788
@ GhostThruster:
You don't learn anything from positive comments, be happy that Dj0z pointed out the bad things.
If I would say "Great map, love the models and skins", would that help you developing the map? I don't think so.
Dj0z has some good points, try working on those instead of fending them off and start flaming.

No more flaming/trolling after this post, or you will get -5 rep (this applies to everyone).
(Really, it bothers me that I even have to add this childish rule for you...).

~ap0calypse
 
Okay, I may have sounded flame-ish, but I was angry, anyone would be if they had gotten a whole row of bad feedback on their map.

First off, I never said or meant anything to actually insult/flame at you. I never called your review Bullf***, I was trying to say that I did alter all the units enough (barely) to classify it as 'altered'. And I never said the positives helped me either (though personally, I like them better), do youse believe someone writing 'kewwwl map, awesum 10000000/5!' makes me think they are helping?

It was my idea that the bug occured during the protection, that wasn't an argument, but if you played before the optimizing, then my idea is wrong. Could you specify what caused the bug? Oh, and I wrote that you looking at my coding helped ('I really have learnt is to reduce lag by half a nano-second'), though, yeah I exaggerated.

Again, I never said I needed no triggers, just a few. And that is true, I used one for a spell, one for AI, and two for legion selection. And I said I'm lazy, though, yeah, I definitely need to go more advanced. About those doodads, the map was based of a Blizzard map, I have said that billions of times. I never said I have no time to code, I'm just not that good.

Lastly, sorry if I was flaming/trolling. I was angry. I'm not the type of dude who flames, I'm the dude who gets a little emotional. I don't want to start a flame war as I think they are pointless too.
 
Level 11
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Okay, I may have sounded flame-ish, but I was angry, anyone would be if they had gotten a whole row of bad feedback on their map.
[...]
Lastly, sorry if I was flaming/trolling. I was angry. I'm not the type of dude who flames, I'm the dude who gets a little emotional. I don't want to start a flame war as I think they are pointless too.

Well it's all fine then. Seems we have avoided a pointless battle for something much more constructive. Sorry if the way i commented the map sounded too harsh.

Don't say positive criticism is useless though. Well actually, i know that you know it's useful, so never mind.

PM me if you want some tips, to help debugging the map, etc.
You deserve a +rep for the examplary behaviour you showed with that post.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
24
i thought by altered melee, the actual races would have different playstyles and units but it turned out just to be the original races with different models. with all the map's imports, it takes a long time to load, and liable to lag, etc. i'm not sure enough work was put into this map, as Blizzard already provided the balance and the map. try to make it more unique and your own

2/5
 
Level 7
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
257
Nice map! playable with computer, tons of custom models, but- when you play as legion and you train hero, my screen starts changing colors to blue, green... some sort of bug. Also, you coud make more custom heroes. there are like
3new abilities, some with changed description but still good. (i dont like reading descriptions)

4,5/5.
 
Level 4
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Nov 11, 2009
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i thought by altered melee, the actual races would have different playstyles and units but it turned out just to be the original races with different models. with all the map's imports, it takes a long time to load, and liable to lag, etc. i'm not sure enough work was put into this map, as Blizzard already provided the balance and the map. try to make it more unique and your own

2/5

Obviously you don't understand what an altered melee map is. And i have had no lag on the game. Have you even tried it? it already is balanced, and the races and heroes used are unique.
 
Trilby, you're right. I didn't make the model, and I don't know how to edit. Well, if you think the map is crap, whatever. Tis your opinion. And like I said before, Blood Elves are human-like, and Fel Orcs are Orcs with Fel in front (play the campaigns and you'll see). I admit that I didn't change the races archetypes much, and that I modified the units only.
 
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