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About the SC2 editor

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Level 21
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I know people complain about it and say that it kills modding. I understand this belief.
However, I have also tried the beast myself now and all I can say is wow. The power of this editor is beyond belief.
All those things that would take complicated triggering and then run slower than your grandmother in WE are no longer a problem. For that I think it's well worth the complexity.

Although they should still add an easy mode. I can hack myself through this thing, but I can clearly see that if this were my first editor there would be very little chance.
It's open to modding if you're serious, but the main issue it has is that unskilled people are flat out unable to use the data editor. This should not be a thing. At the very least it should be possible to copy a unit without anything breaking, no matter how much object spam it creates.

Note: On my second day with the editor I was able to make a goliath shoot missiles at units, spend energy to do so and only fire while it isn't directly told to attack. I also fixed a bug that I encountered about the attack spending mana before it actually happens. Considering that on the first day all I did was looking at models, this is a huge amount of power for such a little time spent learning.
 
I guess the Galaxy Editor is a tool that works best for you if you're a programmer or something of the sort, but personally, I've come and gone multiple times over the years trying to understand the damn thing and doing ANYTHING requires an obscene amount of time. Maybe it's just me being used to the Warcraft 3 editor, but Galaxy Editor feel unintuitive and you have to learn a lot of things by heart. That takes a lot of time if you can't, as you say, 'hack your way' through it. I think for the larger majority of people interested in modding an RTS, the challenge that learning Galaxy Editor poses is just not worth their time and effort.

That being said, it's always nice to hear someone is using it. Gives some hope to the sc2 modding community. Working on anything in particular?
 
Level 25
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I just feel like Warcraft 3 is a lot quicker when it comes to creating basic stuff. Sure you can create amazing cool things in Starcraft 2, but sometimes I just want 10 units of various names and models.
Doing it in Wc3 is: Copy unit, change name, alter model, alter damage, alter projectile.. It's all in the same space.

For Starcraft 2, at least when I tried it I have to copy a unit, copy an actor, copy a weapon, copy an effect, copy a damage effect... Rename them all so they don't clutter the editor with the "copy" name..
 

Deleted member 219079

D

Deleted member 219079

SC2 Editor has its downs imo.

SC2 is strictly regulated by Blizzard. For example, no playing with sexuality, pedobears etc. So you /do/ have restrictions in SC2 modding that do not /apply/ in WC3.

Unnecessary complexity (WC3 WE being proof of the unnecessity).

Takes a lot of system resources, extensive load times.

Connects to internet -> your session is logged.
 
Yeah, ok, why is that, though? That you have to connect to Blizzard servers to use the editor? I would understand if the map marketplace was a thing, but it just seems like a unnecessary stranglehold from Blizzard. Forcing you to go through the Arcade for everything is just annoying. Campaigns have to be launched from the editor, etc...
 
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It's DRM. You don't actually have to connect, but you do have to have the actual game and it uses your account to determine that at first. Recently the blizzard servers were down for a couple hours due to some bug and yet I was still able to use the editor and game. I even closed both of them numerous times and they still worked. So there's definitely some kind of "key" that you get from battle-net, but that also works offline.
The SC2 editor doesn't actually use the internet for anything after that, except publishing for obvious reasons.

I do agree that it's unnecessarily complex though. The power this editor has is just ridiculous, but unlike WE it doesn't have an "easy mode" like the GUI is for triggers. Maybe they didn't realize that what they're doing is too complex for the average modder.
And yeah, copying/duplicating models is a bit stupid. A functionality as basic as this shouldn't break anything, but even if you mark all the checkboxes it will still mess up the actor(it does create a new one, but it's configured for the original model).

So far I've not started working on anything big. Just figuring out how it works and trying stuff. I do have an idea about making some kind of campaign-like mode. I especially liked the way you can customize so many things in the campaign so I'm thinking about whether I'll be able to duplicate it well in a custom map.
If so, I'd like to make a map where there are several competing teams each with their own squad of units and a single main ship. This main ship would decide how many units you can have(supply limit) and whether they have any ugprades(like the ones in campaign). Those things would be limited by the space the ship has, meaning that you can't just have everything, but have to think about what your playstyle benefits most from.
Smaller ships would have more utility(speed/stealth), while larger ones would have more health and space, thus allowing larger armies or making them better at combat.

I wonder if it's a bug or I'm doing something wrong, but I can't seem to find the latest LotV corruptor in editor. Its abilities exist, but the only corruptor units are for liberty and swarm and they have a different ability. It's not very high priority for me because they work properly ingame, but still.
 
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I don't really understand. I've never tried to play with the Galaxy Editor myself, but I see everyone complaining about it.

What's so hard about him anyway?
 
Level 21
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Well, the main thing people appear to dislike it is that everything is split into a million tabs. Also, copying units does not work the way you think it would.

As an example, the components of a goliath(click to enlarge):
SC2 Editor Goliath.jpg

In the bottom left is essentially a summary of all the objects that the editor detects are related. You can't change them from that part, but instead through the fields on the right. You can also add another tab in the lower left that when you click a specific thing in the list shows why it's there.
I collapsed the list for this picture because it's too long to fit in the tab without scrolling.

Explaining each group in order:
Abilities - As they are in WC3, except that basic orders like move and attack are also abilities.
Actors - Essentially like events for models. They decide the animations of your model.
Behaviors - Upgrades are applied through this. Also used for buffs.
Buttons - You have to define buttons separately from the abilities that use them. Very useful, but also more complex.
Effects - This is for all the components of abilities. Note that weapons also work by running an effect, which in turn can run other effects.
Models - The model for the unit itself, all its missiles and its various kinds of death.
Movers - Everything that moves can be modified. Missiles and units are the main things that have movers. This part here solves one of the major problems that WC3 had - projectile systems being slow. You don't need a projectile system in SC2 because it has Movers.
Requirements - Haven't touched this part. Probably works like WC3. On the goliath this decides whether the buttons for certain upgrades are greyed out on the unit.
Sounds - The actual sounds the unit uses. You can change their volume and pitch, but you need actors to actually apply them.
Turrets - Some units like the goliath have rotating weapons. This controls how much they can turn, how fast, etc. For turreted weapons you can also use this to limit their firing arc.
Units - Other units that are related to this unit. For the goliath the only other unit is their anti-air missile. (Yes, missiles are units too)
Upgrades - Pretty much the same as in WC3.
Weapons - Each weapon can be defined specifically. You can define their frontswing(preswing), backswing, firing duration(essentially time during which the attack has started, but can be cancelled), what they target, etc. Notably, you can make weapons that fire automatically and/or while moving and you can decide whether they share cooldown, among other things. Damage is not defined here, but you can say how many attacks it should display that it has and you can say which effect it takes the damage amount from(for display). Attack animations are not defined here, but by actors.

One type that goliaths don't have mentioned in the overview are validators. Essentially they are like conditions and you can use them to test a wide range of things. For instance, if you have an automatic weapon, you can use a validator to pick which targets it will shoot at.

Note that all of the categories above are separate object types. Each of them also has a tab where you can look at them specifically, but even by clicking on them in the lower left you can see and change all their data. The main reason to switch tabs is that you don't see the overview in the lower left for them like you see for the goliath in this case.
All those things are simple if explained, but the sheer amount of them makes the editor overwhelming for many people. Sure it makes sense that actors control animations, but how do you find out about them? The editor doesn't guide your hand, because you have to know where something is defined and to find that out you have to look at many things. What makes it harder is that although you can see descriptions for the fields ingame, some of them lack descriptions.

In the editor there are also many awesome things. You can make attacks cost mana, energy, shields, resources, a combination of them, have them spawn units, require charges, restore health/energy/shields by dealing/taking damage, etc. Most of those things are handled by simple fields on the units and weapons.
For instance, consider that the way carriers launch interceptors is done with a weapon. You can literally make a weapon that is a separate unit you can launch and that returns once it's done.

EDIT: Some ridiculous things people have done with only the data editor(Object editor):
Terran buildings ramming into colossi
Long-distance mining
The same uploader also has other ridiculous videos, like vipers pulling units into lava, overlords picking up enemy units(and dropping them into lava), ultralisks damaging burrowed units when they burrow, etc.
On my first day I changed goliaths so that they can use their missiles against ground too, but only while not attacking and semi-randomly. They can move while using missiles. I also made autocannon cost 5 energy and missiles cost 10 and that the energy of goliaths only regenerates while not taking damage. You can see what it's like by looking at Driveby Goliath Test in the arcade. (Uploaded in Europe only)
 
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Rui

Rui

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I believe in its power. But:
  • Limitations on size and ground textures... I've said it now and again: partially suppressing these limits was one of Warcraft III's greatest conquests of all time.
  • Screwing up on small things
    • Having to switch to hypertext mode and then back because I want to tidy up folders differently and create new ones.
    • New data sometimes failing to appear on the listings for whatever reason.
    • Other small glitches I remember coming across on occasion.

  • Gotta-Control-Everything syndrome.
    • If you say the editor requiring a log on is actually a lease, I'm glad.
    • Other stuff, like the EULA, still bugs me — everything we make is Blizzard's? No. :confused:
    • Censoring on everything religion related, sometimes going too far.

  • Time, indeed. Galaxy would've benefited from a "simple" or "legacy" mode.
  • Closely related: too heavy for my computer, even on Low settings. That influences testing the multitude of data we need to create for copying a single unit.
 
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I bet the community or blizzard will eventually reduce those limitations a bit. I hear people have tried increased map sizes, but beyond a certain size it broke pathfinding(or made it too expensive? Not sure). Although the publishing is through blizzard, you actually have access to the map file on your computer. The file format is also known. I imagine people will eventually make tools to leverage this power.
Warcraft III has a large amount of ridiculous glitches and limitations too, but we've grown used to them. Well, the limitations at least are less existent in SC2.
Everything we make is blizzard's, but that's also the case in WC3. Consider how the original DotA didn't get told to cease and desist because they remained in WC3, but the moment they tried to use their wc-lore-y heroes outside this ecosystem they were sued to oblivion.
The main difference in this is that in SC2 enforcing these claims is possible, so if a complaint were to be made Blizzard would no longer be able to say "Sorry, the mapping scene is out of our control".
But yeah, the censoring can be pretty annoying if the maps you make are like this. I imagine religion would be a thing that matters in LoaP maps.
The "always-on" thing appears to work on a certificate basis. In singleplayer you only need to log on once(per some time period? not sure). However, it is true that there is no LAN mode, so the only way to play online is through Blizzard. They did that to counter the rampant piracy in the WC3 community, but I feel in most cases it actually does more harm than good.
The thing is, their business model is utterly incapable of taking advantage of the modding community. What modding does is that it makes players remain longer, which has only a minor effect on attracting new players. Yet Blizzard still appears to think that most of their income should be from game sales. If they used a marketplace system like in Roblox where creators can sell the stuff they made, it would improve profits(Possibly at the cost of weakening modding). Although they've started to realize this. There are lots of cosmetic things to buy, such as profile pictures. There's even a DLC campaign that isn't part of the main story, but is related(Nova Covert Ops).
I personally got the base game and all expansions, but no fluff. I'm not the kind of person that would pay for something so useless.
For my computer the editor's performance is fine. I guess that's because my laptop has a very powerful processor. When it comes to graphics it actually lags at times in newer games.
 
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hello I'm owner of warcraft 3 and starcraft 2, but I know how modify units from warcraft 3 only I don't know how modify birth animation building but other stuffs I know. But with starcraft 2 I can't modify units. I go in editor starcraft 2>modules>unit ok. But I can't edit values.
I would like modify swarm host for locust (fly): add attack air and remove swoop ability drop
 

Dr Super Good

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hello I'm owner of warcraft 3 and starcraft 2, but I know how modify units from warcraft 3 only I don't know how modify birth animation building but other stuffs I know. But with starcraft 2 I can't modify units. I go in editor starcraft 2>modules>unit ok. But I can't edit values.
I would like modify swarm host for locust (fly): add attack air and remove swoop ability drop
Modifications should add a layer of data which is stored in a map or mod local XML file. Unlike Warcraft III, data in StarCraft II is broken into more logical units so changes may have to spam many different types of data such as effects, weapons, abilities, e.t.c.
 
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