Zombies?!

[Mr.Goblin]

Well well well, I had a wonderfull dream about zombie survival last night, and I rocked the shit out.. until my brain started to analyze the whole situation and than I didn't managed to sleep due to several questions I couldn't answer, which turned the whole dream into something really stupid.

IF ZOMBIES WERE REAL

=====The zombies are corpses that walks around=====
-how could a zombie live if?:

1# - if the zombie has no blood in his veins to move his muscles/fuel the brain?
2# - if the corpse is dead, for how long would it take for a human body to rot away?
3# - if the zombie has broken bones, can he really move around?
4# - if the zombie doesn't eat, for how long can he survive if it has no fuel to give him the energy to move around?
5# - why wouldn't zombies attack each other?
6# - why wouldn't a zombie attack animals and not just humans?
7# - how could a zombie tell there's survivers in a house if the survivers don't make a sound and are in the pitch dark?

I'm sure there's much more questions that you guys could find, anyway.. I think it is an interesting debate to find out the truth about Zombies. I didn't find any logical ways for zombies to live more than a week long (being dead bodys or living things)... and that destroyed the whole meaning of a Zombie apocalypse, which destroyed the whole ''fun part'' of my dream .

 

[trolman]

Zombies are like santaclaus, its not real, it makes no sence but entertains people...

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

zombies are magical. if you are refering to the "true" zombie

if you are talking about the modern zombie, there are explanations of each in its own fictional setting

 

[Statharas]

1# - Practically, blood "feeds" your muscles. Thus they can survive with the blood they still have, provided their virus is able to control blood flow and stuff.
2# - If the corpse is still able to function, a long time.
3# - Depends on the broken bones.
4# - Maybe a day or two.
5# - Because they are semi-rotten and not fit for consumption. Their stomachs would puke the non-consumable food.
6# - Maybe it prefers human meat. Still, this argument is kinda stupid, since they shouldn't avoid anything living larger than a rat.
7# - Stench.

 

[Fussiler1]

5# - why wouldn't zombies attack each other?

Do humans eat rotten flesh?

7# - how could a zombie tell there's survivers in a house if the survivers don't make a sound and are in the pitch dark?

Smell?

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

Like i said in the chat, a zombie is no longer human and no longer has the same survival requirement as humans.

for example, dehydration will lead to delusion in humans because it effects your brain function. a zombie will be fine even when dehydrated.

they simply do not have the same energy requirements as humans so you cannot think of starving them like you would with a human.

 

[Elite Slayer]

Rationally, and with modern science in our real world, zombies are nearly a guaranteed impossibility. At least, in the traditional sense. Hollywood has just spruced up a cultural image into what we picture today. It's just Hollywood, people. Little to no scientific foundation.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

the key point here is that we are presuming that the zombies are real.
it's a hypothetical thinking exercise.

 

[Braincrack]

Well, I'm a fan of zombie apocalypse based games and movies, too. But I was always wondering about some of the things you see.

First off, if there would be such thing as a zombie, it would be able to run, to climb, to smell, to open doors, whatever a normal human is able to do, I don't think that once a man is zombiefied he looses all of his physical abilities or skills, nor does he gets super strength and speed and whatever, that wouldn't make sense either. Of course I have to mention the raging behaviour of a zombie. If you're going berserk you don't really care about the wall between you and your food and if you go berserk 24/7 then maybe you can't have some enlightened moment to use the door handle or something ^^

Plus, if something is dead, it's dead. There's no virus that could trigger a reanimation, taking control over the whole body, working as a unit. The only thing that could do that are parasites, but for that the host has got to be living, too. I like your way of thinking anyways, a zombie should be able to die of starvation or thirst, just like a normal human, maybe even worse, because a zombie has a very active lifestyle For that "zombies don't eat zombies"-thing, you could explain that with pack instinct.

And I think the only sickness that could create something like a zombie disease would be rabies, only mutated or manipulated, like in the two 28 movies. But, then again, the zombies would be living, so they wouldn't rot.

Interesting fact: Norse mythology had zombies, too. They named them Draugr and they were believed to guard their graves, so their gifts for the afterlife won't get stolen.

 

[Vehster]

One word; Possible

Zombies could exist due to some freak incident...

Braincrack, do you know what the real zombie is like?
It is basically a copy of a living person only containing two animal instincts, eating and walking...

A zombie is a reanimated corpse with no ability at all besides to endure damage and always eat, they are brainless for they have just come back as a corpse.

So I think your wrong but that's my opinion.
Once a man is zombiefied he looses his intelligence, duh... lol

Oh and if the person is dead then why couldn't the virus trigger a chemical reaction for reanimation?

 

[HFR]

1# - if the zombie has no blood in his veins to move his muscles/fuel the brain?

There is blood, but it's moved by muscle contractions, I guess.

2# - if the corpse is dead, for how long would it take for a human body to rot away?

According to World War Z, from some months to even years, if the zombie is maintained in proper conservation (cold places, etc)

3# - if the zombie has broken bones, can he really move around?

If he has no means of locomotion, he'll just stay there until he rots away or a lunch passes by.

4# - if the zombie doesn't eat, for how long can he survive if it has no fuel to give him the energy to move around?

From what I've heard, a zombie doesn't really *needs* fuel, he just eats due to instinct.

5# - why wouldn't zombies attack each other?

Survival instinct, perhaps?

6# - why wouldn't a zombie attack animals and not just humans?

In some movies/books/etc zombies do attack animals.

7# - how could a zombie tell there's survivors in a house if the survivors don't make a sound and are in the pitch dark?

Their smell, I think.

 

[takakenji]

Ｐｌｓ　Ｔｅｌｌ Ｈｏｗ　Ｓｔａｒ　Ｗａｒｓ　Ｈａｓ　Ｅｘｐｌｏｓｉｏｎｓ　Ａｎｄ　Ｓｏｕｎｄ　Ｉｎ　Ｓｐａｃｅ　

 

[HFR]

Ｐｌｓ　Ｔｅｌｌ Ｈｏｗ　Ｓｔａｒ　Ｗａｒｓ　Ｈａｓ　Ｅｘｐｌｏｓｉｏｎｓ　Ａｎｄ　Ｓｏｕｎｄ　Ｉｎ　Ｓｐａｃｅ　

The oxygen that escapes the ships during the impact combusts and propagates sound.


Or magic.

 

[Just_Spectating]

Like i said in the chat, a zombie is no longer human and no longer has the same survival requirement as humans.

for example, dehydration will lead to delusion in humans because it effects your brain function. a zombie will be fine even when dehydrated.

they simply do not have the same energy requirements as humans so you cannot think of starving them like you would with a human.

right here.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

Well well, if zombies were real, we can all agree it can't be a virus that resurrects a dead body... because, once out of oxygen for a few minute, the brain just dies... which makes it impossible for recovery for any virus (parasite).

Now, it is set, the zombies are living humans that just lost it due to the virus and are only acting on primal instinct.

Now, logically speaking... to maintain a human body to stay alive, you need at least to eat a few times per week before having significant muscle lost, etc. Because if not, witten a few weeks the zombies would be really really thin and would die caused by the missing nutriments.

Now, if the zombies are than alive, wouldn't logically attack each other at some point? Yes, they might form a pack, but if there's nothing to eat for a few days, wouldn't they turn to each other as a primal survival instinct?. I think they will, because that virus wants to stay alive or at least, survive long enough to change to an other body.

Concerning that fact, within 2 weeks, without eating zombies would die one by one and the number of zombie's death would expend every passing days following those two weeks...

Now, Pyramidhead mentionned a ''hybernation mode'' I don't believe the human body would survive to that really long... yes, by staying in place and ''sleeping'' so to speak, the zombie would last longer cause it wouldn't requiere as much food. But again, Zombies still being ''humans'' physically, they would still suffer from cold and sunburns.. which would affect significantly the lost of energy, rather to recover the skin, or to create heat to protect the organs...

If Zombies (parasite) were REAL, I still think they wouldn't last more than 2-3 months MAX. and that, if we include the fact that each single army/police force from every country can't manage to stop the expending swarm...

Zombie apocalypse might create as much lost as the ''black death'' but humanity CAN'T possibly die from that..

 

[Braincrack]

Braincrack, do you know what the real zombie is like?
It is basically a copy of a living person only containing two animal instincts, eating and walking...

A zombie is a reanimated corpse with no ability at all besides to endure damage and always eat, they are brainless for they have just come back as a corpse.

So I think your wrong but that's my opinion.
Once a man is zombiefied he looses his intelligence, duh... lol

Oh and if the person is dead then why couldn't the virus trigger a chemical reaction for reanimation?

Sure I know what's a zombie, what makes you think I don't? I don't mean the slow walking zombies of the old movies, I'm talking those fast running ones of Zombieland or Left4dead or 28 days/weeks later.

I don't know, I never heard of a virus that could, you know, take control over the whole body, replacing the ... well complete self of a person. I know that bacteria can do something similar and I absolutely expect parasites to be able to, but only if the body isn't dead.

I just don't believe in the whole reanimation thing. If that's got to work you have to make the blood circle running again, the lungs pumping air in and out, the brains power level put to "WTFBBQjusthappenedlol" etc. I just don't think a virus or bacteria or parasites to be able of doing so... only a shitload of electricity pumped through your whole body.

@Mr.Goblin: You're right about the pack instinct thing. Cannibalism after a certain state of starvation sounds logic and natural. I think that could be possible.

Also I think you're right about your expectation of humanities loss of life on a zombie apocalypse. Hell, if I was a helicopter pilot, I'd just fly my family and a bunch of other healthy people + alot of materials and food onto some island before the horde reaches us anyways. Just think of the rate the information would spread today, if it would start in the USA then Russia would know about it through the news and would be able to prepare: military lockdown for the whole country, etc. (if it is a sickness)

If you guys are talking about some magic jabber satanism shit that just every corpse comes back to life by some unholy stuff, that's fine with me, but I like to stick to reality, so I was talking about something spread by an actual disease.

 

[Vehster]

28 days/weeks later were infected not reanimated, more mutants then zombies.
L4D was a fun myth.

Well why couldn't the virus get the brain and lungs back up?
There would be no real person, just a very very tiny amount of brain activity and lungs...
If you like to stick to reality then erase what you just have typed for actual diseases while magic as well do exist. Unless your a hypocrite of course.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

Well well, if zombies were real, we can all agree it can't be a virus that resurrects a dead body... because, once out of oxygen for a few minute, the brain just dies... which makes it impossible for recovery for any virus (parasite).

Now, it is set, the zombies are living humans that just lost it due to the virus and are only acting on primal instinct.

Now, logically speaking... to maintain a human body to stay alive, you need at least to eat a few times per week before having significant muscle lost, etc. Because if not, witten a few weeks the zombies would be really really thin and would die caused by the missing nutriments.

Now, if the zombies are than alive, wouldn't logically attack each other at some point? Yes, they might form a pack, but if there's nothing to eat for a few days, wouldn't they turn to each other as a primal survival instinct?. I think they will, because that virus wants to stay alive or at least, survive long enough to change to an other body.

Concerning that fact, within 2 weeks, without eating zombies would die one by one and the number of zombie's death would expend every passing days following those two weeks...

Now, Pyramidhead mentionned a ''hybernation mode'' I don't believe the human body would survive to that really long... yes, by staying in place and ''sleeping'' so to speak, the zombie would last longer cause it wouldn't requiere as much food. But again, Zombies still being ''humans'' physically, they would still suffer from cold and sunburns.. which would affect significantly the lost of energy, rather to recover the skin, or to create heat to protect the organs...

If Zombies (parasite) were REAL, I still think they wouldn't last more than 2-3 months MAX. and that, if we include the fact that each single army/police force from every country can't manage to stop the expending swarm...

Zombie apocalypse might create as much lost as the ''black death'' but humanity CAN'T possibly die from that..

what i am trying to get is that they are dead. but they are moving. which means they are not natural. and they are not human anymore. they may be shaped like humans but they are not.

they no longer use their brains as actively as humans do. which cuts down energy consumption.
they no longer digest food or if at all which drastically cuts down energy consumption.
their cells are no longer being replaced or regrown. which also cuts down energy consumption.
their body no longer needs heating. which means it shuts off all functions like shivering and sweating which also cuts down energy consumption
this hibernation i am speaking of is no mere napping. humans still expand a lot of energy even while sleeping. what i am talking about is true hibernation where their metabolism drastically drops down. this and also considering the above points, a hibernating/dazed zombie probably use almost no energy at all

regarding the cold, wouldnt it be logical to assume that a virus that can revive a whole organism would be able to revive a few frostbitten cells? if not, a revival of a completely frozen body?

you CANNOT use your average human biology as an analogue to zombie biology because they are no longer same.

Also I think you're right about your expectation of humanities loss of life on a zombie apocalypse. Hell, if I was a helicopter pilot, I'd just fly my family and a bunch of other healthy people + alot of materials and food onto some island before the horde reaches us anyways. Just think of the rate the information would spread today, if it would start in the USA then Russia would know about it through the news and would be able to prepare: military lockdown for the whole country, etc. (if it is a sickness)

your theory only works if we presume the government can actually work that fast. and then this is also relying on the fact that the "news" you see on TV are actually news. i see things on TV "news" that has been shown on a web blog many many weeks ago, if not months. how many international flights are being made per day? and how many days would it take for the government to accumulate enough reports to convince themselves to put a lockdown in action. this is AFTER the government gets enough reports to no longer consider it a hoax. aaaand of course, the official announcement for lockdown will, more or less likely, be only given out AFTER a botched black-ops cover-upS(multiple).

 

[HFR]

Yeah, in a matter of days there would be millions of'em, like the whole of New York infected and only us to stop them. I was in Yonkers man, shit was crazy.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

what i am trying to get is that they are dead. but they are moving. which means they are not natural. and they are not human anymore. they may be shaped like humans but they are not.

they no longer use their brains as actively as humans do. which cuts down energy consumption.
they no longer digest food or if at all which drastically cuts down energy consumption.
their cells are no longer being replaced or regrown. which also cuts down energy consumption.
their body no longer needs heating. which means it shuts off all functions like shivering and sweating which also cuts down energy consumption
this hibernation i am speaking of is no mere napping. humans still expand a lot of energy even while sleeping. what i am talking about is true hibernation where their metabolism drastically drops down. this and also considering the above points, a hibernating/dazed zombie probably use almost no energy at all

regarding the cold, wouldnt it be logical to assume that a virus that can revive a whole organism would be able to revive a few frostbitten cells? if not, a revival of a completely frozen body?

you CANNOT use your average human biology as an analogue to zombie biology because they are no longer same.


your theory only works if we presume the government can actually work that fast. and then this is also relying on the fact that the "news" you see on TV are actually news. i see things on TV "news" that has been shown on a web blog many many weeks ago, if not months. how many international flights are being made per day? and how many days would it take for the government to accumulate enough reports to convince themselves to put a lockdown in action. this is AFTER the government gets enough reports to no longer consider it a hoax. aaaand of course, the official announcement for lockdown will, more or less likely, be only given out AFTER a botched black-ops cover-upS(multiple).

I understand your point about hibernation.. but why would a parasite / virus raise a dead body? or at least turn a living body into a dead one due to the cold/intense fever(or what ever) the virus would cause, killing the brain fonction/body of that human... Yes.. it is much more energy efficient to move around a dead body than a living one with all our immune system always trying to kick that parasite off, but wouldn't be a dumb move to pick a dead ''killing machine'' with rotting flesh and loose in strength, etc... as a weapon? obviously.. I don't have the explanation for it..

but turning into hibernation, the body is still going to decay slowly... and my question still stand: how long does it take for human ''flesh/muscle'' to decay? Because even in hibernation mode.. it will rot away. And if we apply your argument about

it be logical to assume that a virus that can revive a whole organism would be able to revive a few frostbitten cells? if not, a revival of a completely frozen body?

well.. in hibernation mode, the cells are going to die slowly anyway and the body is still going to rot, and if the said so ''parasite'' tries to revive the dying cells (if they haven't felt of the body first) in the process of hivernation, that is a lot of energy lost for ''the conservation of his transportation'' and it would obviously bring the zombie to ''die'' by decaying after a few months... because if not if the virus/parasite doesn't auto-regenerated every few days, this create energy lost (bringing the dying cells back to life)--> need to eat... if it can't find any food, it will attack an other zombie... and that creates a reduction in the number of zombies because the parasite would clearly try to stay alive.

I do think it is a ''vicious'' cycle... that the zombie apocalypse will hurt HARD in the first weeks/maybe a month.. but clearly after X (probably 3-6) months, there won't be much zombie left...

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

would it also be safe to assume that this virus, most likely engineered, will render the body cells immune to decay? they virus could simply not allow other times of bacterium and fungus to take place on the body

 

[Xthreo]

mmmm, resident evil (the movies, I don't know about the games) answer your questions don't you think?

 

[Jake Command Wolf]

would it also be safe to assume that this virus, most likely engineered, will render the body cells immune to decay? they virus could simply not allow other times of bacterium and fungus to take place on the body

Well in most modern retellings of Zombie Apocalypse scenarios the zombies are referred to more often as "Infected" instead (usually from a scientific stand point of those that tried to study them or caused the outbreak in the first place), Survivors call them zombies out of force of habit or just insult.

In such alternate worlds the infected aren’t truly undead and still quite alive but they are infected with a virus that kills off the higher functions of their brains, turning them into little more than rabid, mindless animals.

They still need to eat, probably eating dead survivors or those immune to the infection they killed, they probably go to the bathroom too, but do so without thinking, much like a wild bird would.

As for sleeping it’s likely that the infected are insomniac to an extent, not needing sleep as long as they eat enough food to fuel their bodies, like some fish do.

Also some alternate worlds show infected that “play dead”, only to awake and attack when a survivor walks by, this in fact may be the infected's attempt to sleep, probably little more than them falling down and not moving for several hours.

 

[mckill2009]

5# - why wouldn't zombies attack each other?

coz zombies smells the other and said "oh, you also stinks..."...

6# - why wouldn't a zombie attack animals and not just humans?

zombies attack also animals, but animals taste like shit and humans taste like juicy chicken ...

 

[Orcnet]

there are a lot of expalanations about zombie infestations and such and the only good info for this is the zombies in resident evil, I mean they are those kind of virus that makes it worse? lol!

 

[Braincrack]

28 days/weeks later were infected not reanimated, more mutants then zombies.
L4D was a fun myth.

Well why couldn't the virus get the brain and lungs back up?
There would be no real person, just a very very tiny amount of brain activity and lungs...
If you like to stick to reality then erase what you just have typed for actual diseases while magic as well do exist. Unless your a hypocrite of course.

Well, then I'm not talking about zombies anymore, for your comfort I mean infected/mutants.

Because a viral cell isn't even something that lives by it's own means. It needs a host cell to keep living and attaches to it. If the cell dies, the viral part of it dies, too. There is just no possibility for a virus to make a heart beating again, that's just possible if you trigger the whole circulation back on, done with massive electric shocks. There. is. just. no. virus. that. can. shoot. lightnings.

Damnit. Oh yeah, magic does not exist. No proof needed.

For the future I can only accept zombie scenarios, in which the zombies are infected, ffs.

 

[TheKurt009]

OR what if the zombies became like in I am legend? we might get fucked up

 

[Sky Green]

OR what if the zombies became like in I am legend? we might get fucked up

Agreed, and they infected animals too, but still those aren't real zombies as we know them, or those rotten ones, they are mutants that got infected by a virus that was in a cure for cancer or something like that well I don't know but this Saturday it's on TV so It's going to be Legen... wait for it DARY

Anywho Those "zombies" have a full explanation why they and what they are...

 

[Deolrin]

Assuming a zombie 'apocalypse' DOES occur, and assuming the virus\infection manages to overcome all of the questions and difficulties in this thread, how much of the world will actually be affected?
Let's say the outbreak starts in New York. Assuming the infected do not leave their country before 'turning', and assuming zombies are not capable of swimming, or flying(through manmade devices or on their own), and are not particularly intelligent(or intelligent at all) - Will it really be that bad to affect the entire world? Even if the zombies do manage to spread to the entirety of America, which I very much doubt would happen(the military isn't THAT bad at shooting and blowing shit up, now are they? I think a couple of aerial strikes should solve the problem.), could they really escape America and reach Europe\Asia? If a zombie invasion does occur, it won't be an apocalypse as much as it would be a 'holocaust' of sorts.
That is, based on the assumption that the only possible way for zombies to reproduce is to infect other humans physically, and the virus that infected them in the first place is not airborne.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

Assuming a zombie 'apocalypse' DOES occur, and assuming the virus\infection manages to overcome all of the questions and difficulties in this thread, how much of the world will actually be affected?
Let's say the outbreak starts in New York. Assuming the infected do not leave their country before 'turning', and assuming zombies are not capable of swimming, or flying(through manmade devices or on their own), and are not particularly intelligent(or intelligent at all) - Will it really be that bad to affect the entire world? Even if the zombies do manage to spread to the entirety of America, which I very much doubt would happen(the military isn't THAT bad at shooting and blowing shit up, now are they? I think a couple of aerial strikes should solve the problem.), could they really escape America and reach Europe\Asia? If a zombie invasion does occur, it won't be an apocalypse as much as it would be a 'holocaust' of sorts.
That is, based on the assumption that the only possible way for zombies to reproduce is to infect other humans physically, and the virus that infected them in the first place is not airborne.

If it takes more than 2 days before turning into a zombie? you just need 1 person to reach a plane before he can manage to bite a few humans before getting killed... which could happen.. result the plain lands and give it 1 more day and more people get infected. OR logically, if the virus starts in a 2/3 country (new form of virus, needs better medication, the country in question ships that person to a bigger country cause they try to understand WHAT is that new virus and HOW to prevent it from expending) that contaminated person travels the sea... and bingo once again..

The exact same thing happened with the ''black death''... it expected from europe to america, and before we tought it was a problem.. it was too late already

or even more simple... mosquitoes = will bite zombies, and they might have well give the virus to other humans... AND THAT! would be a FRIGHTENING aspect of the zombie apocalypse...

blablabla, with out multicultural world, people go around the world by plane everytime.

 

[Deolrin]

Let's assume it takes half an hour to turn, then.

But otherwise; Touche.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

Let's assume it takes half an hour to turn, then.

But otherwise; Touche.

that would be viral.. kill a complete living and complex body, and ressurect it for use.. pretty compelx job

I don't think it will take only half an hour to turn into a zombie, but probably like more than 3 hours..

 

[Silverfish423]

What if as opposed to killing a body and than reanimating it for use, why not have the virus actually take over the neural responses of the living organism? Wouldn't that be more efficient?

 

[Mr.Goblin]

What if as opposed to killing a body and than reanimating it for use, why not have the virus actually take over the neural responses of the living organism? Wouldn't that be more efficient?

it's what I think too.. but other hivers seems to disagree with that logic. D: