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Zero Tolerance Veterans Day 2015

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Deleted member 212788

D

Deleted member 212788

It really been 3 years? Wow. Time flies.
 
Level 35
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Those of us who live salute our fallen comrades.

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Level 12
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I remember there was some rumble in the jungle when I returned 2012.
Can someone say what happened or is it a state secret?
 
I'm glad I wasn't active during that bullshit.

A lot of people are too eager to fight and take a stance on things that don't matter. They will take the contrary opinion just for the hell of it. Then it escalates. And continues to escalate. Until irrevocable damage is done to the community over something that should never have been fought over in the first place.
 
Level 19
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I'm glad I wasn't active during that bullshit.

A lot of people are too eager to fight and take a stance on things that don't matter. They will take the contrary opinion just for the hell of it. Then it escalates. And continues to escalate. Until irrevocable damage is done to the community over something that should never have been fought over in the first place.

"I wasn't active at the time, and have no frame of reference; however, I do have an opinion about the subject matter and I'm quick to trivialize the issues that occurred. Here's my generalized thoughts on "fighting" and how it applies to this incident, which I'll reiterate again, I know nothing about."

I've gone through the trouble to fix your post bud, no need to credit me if you decide to change your original one.
 
It's funny, when you don't take a strong hand to trolls, and you let them infest your community, it tends to lead to either the degradation of the community as a whole, or zero tolerance responses, from lax staff that sprung into action a little too far.

I'm glad they're mostly gone, though. For now, atleast.
 
"I wasn't active at the time, and have no frame of reference; however, I do have an opinion about the subject matter and I'm quick to trivialize the issues that occurred. Here's my generalized thoughts on "fighting" and how it applies to this incident, which I'll reiterate again, I know nothing about."

I've gone through the trouble to fix your post bud, no need to credit me if you decide to change your original one.

Just because I wasn't active during that month of warfare doesn't mean that I know nothing about it. It was a fight over the internet, typed over the internet, and read over the internet. Reading it after it happened instead of while it happens does not provide less of an understanding of what's been read, because it's text, not a physical altercation in which those who are not there are forced to base their opinions on the observations of others. If anything, reading the same text after the fact provides a better understanding than reading such text during the conflict due to taking part in neither side and having limited bias.

You can continue pretending that everyone who was banned was a hero, if you want, but in reality, it was started by trolls on one side, and then escalated by both sides. The trolls did whatever they could to make it seem like a fight for freedom, when really they were twisting the story of what happened to gain followers. Well-intentioned people ended up succumbing to both sides and then those attempting to bring order to chaos were inaccurate in differentiating the trolls from their sympathizers as they took action against both. Ignorance was rampant because those with the understanding of the situation and ability to use reason to decipher the truth were too busy distorting it for their own agendas.

I'm not a Christian, however their belief that the Devil will come pretending to bring good change is spot on; those with malicious intent, if they are intelligent enough to do so, will offer a twisted perception of reality, appearing to be good, and appealing to other intelligent minds by showing their own intelligence. You have to remember that just because someone appears more intelligent than those they oppose, it does not mean they want to use their intelligence for the benefit of others.

The trolls brought up legitimate issues. They demonstrated their own intelligence and attacked the credibility of those in authority at the same time. They could have worked to inform the community and Ralle of the whole truth, but they took the truth that was already being misunderstood, and twisted it, telling it in a way that would incite anger from both sides, because they weren't interested in the truth, they were interested in creating chaos, and using honest people's appeal to truth and what appears to be reason, as their method. Meanwhile, those on the right side were still mistaken because most of them didn't understand the situation either, as they were being misled as well.

I'm not saying everyone that was banned deserved it. Some good people were banned in the confusion, even from the start. That's what gave the trolls so much ammunition; they took legitimate complaints, and used them to create chaos and incite anger instead of trying to fix the situation.

They could have expressed sadness that those who were gone, were gone, and explained why those people should still be here. But they didn't express it through sadness, they expressed it through outrage. Yes, they had a legitimate reason to be angry, but they were intelligent enough to know what their posts were doing; they wanted to start a violent revolution within the community that would destroy it in anger instead of bringing it together in a polite search for the proper solution.

If a hundred people sadly say "I'm sorry this person is gone, they shouldn't be gone because X and Y, it didn't happen the way the administrators think it did, and I hope they will believe this", instead of "I'm angry this person is gone, they shouldn't be gone because X and Y, the moderators are evil and Ralle is the devil", there's a much better chance of bringing that person back.

It's not like real life, where a person could be executed when the judge makes the wrong decision, and it's too late to go back. That doesn't mean nothing from real life is applicable, though. In a U.S. courtroom, you can end up in jail for knowingly providing false evidence and testimony, or even just for insulting the judge or instigating conflict between either side of the courtroom; anything that is meant to twist the odds in your favor instead of using honesty and hard facts until the odds shift themselves. Unfortunately, the only rule relating to courtrooms that is regularly enforced is the judge's ability to hold anyone that argues with him in contempt; people are rarely held accountable for the integrity of their statements.

However, similar rules apply online, in the virtual courtroom with Ralle as Judge and a Jury of Administrators and the community as a few hundred defense attorneys and prosecutors. If you cut a piece from the truth, twist it into a thread and tie it into a pretzel before offering it as the whole truth to create chaos instead of understanding, you will be subject to consequences. This is a community, and it has no place for those who wish to use issues to incite conflict to the detriment of the community instead of with the intention of solving the problem that they are increasing awareness of.

This is a website. You can't start a revolution, kill the king, and establish a new government. In the end, the king can end you all with the click of a button. Starting a revolution will never fix anything; it will only divide the community and cause many to be banned.
 
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It's the oversensitive behavior of people that created zero tolerance. For fucks sake, people didn't even understand the difference between joking around and outright flaming. The "bad" behavior that came from the incident was after a shitstorm of sensitive people not getting chat answers to make their Narotu Spelpax to work. Also toxicity isn't just found within trolls or blatant pricks, people are forgetting that the infrastructure of the hive was penetrated by people who had no business running anything, let alone making decisions in a community that many loved. The majority of the shitstorm was related to bad decisions made by power hungry dorks.
 
It's the oversensitive behavior of people that created zero tolerance. For fucks sake, people didn't even understand the difference between joking around and outright flaming. The "bad" behavior that came from the incident was after a shitstorm of sensitive people not getting chat answers to make their Narotu Spelpax to work. Also toxicity isn't just found within trolls or blatant pricks, people are forgetting that the infrastructure of the hive was penetrated by people who had no business running anything, let alone making decisions in a community that many loved. The majority of the shitstorm was related to bad decisions made by power hungry dorks.

Just because your opponents are flawed, doesn't mean you aren't flawed yourself. Yes, some people were banned who should not have been banned. That was a huge mistake. You were right to be upset about that. But your side went about exposing it the wrong way. They tried to incite panic and start a "revolution" of sorts. This is the internet. You can't revolt against authority when it makes a mistake, you will simply be banned. Your only option is to accept that a mistake has been made, and try to convince those who made it, for as long as it takes, that they have made a mistake, and that you hope they will fix it. As mistaken as they may have been, they were trying to benefit the hive, and once they realize that a different course of action must be taken to do so, they will.

Just compare a community and its moderators (or government) to your body and mind. Imagine that the cells of your body are people. Your brain is a group of people (the different parts of the brain) forming the brain. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to live if your body parts left you or fought each other every time you made a mistake? The moderators of the community are the same; they are people, and they make mistakes. Sometimes they will do things that aren't best for the community as a whole, but like your brain, you can't throw them out and get a new one, because it's not your website. You just have to get used to them and not fight them, even when they make mistakes. You should point out their mistakes for the sake of solving problems, but pointing out mistakes for the purpose of starting conflict (which effect it has is based on the nature of what you say) will not do any good. Lucky for you, even though you can't swap brains, you can move to a different body (a different website).
 
It's the oversensitive behavior of people that created zero tolerance. For fucks sake, people didn't even understand the difference between joking around and outright flaming. The "bad" behavior that came from the incident was after a shitstorm of sensitive people not getting chat answers to make their Narotu Spelpax to work. Also toxicity isn't just found within trolls or blatant pricks, people are forgetting that the infrastructure of the hive was penetrated by people who had no business running anything, let alone making decisions in a community that many loved. The majority of the shitstorm was related to bad decisions made by power hungry dorks.
the "bad" behaviour is not an isolated incident, it was a cancerous mentality that basically thought it was okay to aggravate, condescend, and bully. kinda like your responses to infernaltater, or how you dismiss lesser-skilled modders' projects as 'narotu spelpax'. but nah, that's all joking around and i'm just oversensitive ay

who were these perceived 'power hungry dorks' (if you don't want to name names, don't worry about answering) ? also does 'shitstorm' refer to the events leading to zero tolerance or zero tolerance itself?
 
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It's funny, when you don't take a strong hand to trolls, and you let them infest your community, it tends to lead to either the degradation of the community as a whole, or zero tolerance responses, from lax staff that sprung into action a little too far.
Exactly! I was not active that period. I was absent for two/three months, I was just reading about it later. When I came back half of people were gone.
I remember I warned Ralle that year that if he does not remove some people this will happen.
You are right actually. If you let some people too much to infect community, chaos will spread and only strongest type of actions such this will be necessary one day. Especially when such people are staff members.

I'm glad they're mostly gone, though. For now, atleast.
I completely agree with that. I am also glad that I haven't seen most of them insulting people or making problems all time here in site. It is much better without them, as seem that for them, it is much better without us in turn.
 

Ash

Ash

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How about we try to remember this period for the shitstorm that it was, take a moment to reflect that said shitstorm has passed and then breathe, become fulfilled and move on with our lives?
 
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Well as you said, yeah. It is gone now... This is only remembrance for me (funny from today's point of view), I guess that is why fladdermasken created thread. To remind us what happened, so we can discuss (and laugh). But honestly I see this thread as reminder for new generations what they must not let to happen ever again. (we are much older now, I wonder that we will ever behave like that, thats why I said that it is funny now from this point of view)
 

Rui

Rui

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Just because I wasn't active during that month of warfare doesn't mean that I know nothing about it. It was a fight over the internet, typed over the internet, and read over the internet. Reading it after it happened instead of while it happens does not provide less of an understanding of what's been read, because it's text, not a physical altercation in which those who are not there are forced to base their opinions on the observations of others. If anything, reading the same text after the fact provides a better understanding than reading such text during the conflict due to taking part in neither side and having limited bias.
But also incomplete information. If you had been here you'd have witnessed to several scandalous and nefarious attempts to hide what was going on. I wouldn't have any reserves in betting money on how almost 50% of what happened during that period was deleted. The 3 news threads are also not the only places where the situation was discussed.

You can continue pretending that everyone who was banned was a hero, if you want, but in reality, it was started by trolls on one side, and then escalated by both sides. The trolls did whatever they could to make it seem like a fight for freedom, when really they were twisting the story of what happened to gain followers. Well-intentioned people ended up succumbing to both sides and then those attempting to bring order to chaos were inaccurate in differentiating the trolls from their sympathizers as they took action against both. Ignorance was rampant because those with the understanding of the situation and ability to use reason to decipher the truth were too busy distorting it for their own agendas.
(...)
I have no idea what side is whom in your vision. Or how many are there to begin with.

the "bad" behaviour is not an isolated incident, it was a cancerous mentality that basically thought it was okay to aggravate, condescend, and bully. (...)
This.

(...) people are forgetting that the infrastructure of the hive was penetrated by people who had no business running anything, let alone making decisions in a community that many loved. The majority of the shitstorm was related to bad decisions made by power hungry dorks.
who were these perceived 'power hungry dorks' (if you don't want to name names, don't worry about answering) ? also does 'shitstorm' refer to the events leading to zero tolerance or zero tolerance itself?
Was it me? Please do say it, I'd like to hear.

(...) But your side went about exposing it the wrong way. They tried to incite panic and start a "revolution" of sorts. This is the internet. You can't revolt against authority when it makes a mistake, you will simply be banned. Your only option is to accept that a mistake has been made, and try to convince those who made it, for as long as it takes, that they have made a mistake, and that you hope they will fix it. As mistaken as they may have been, they were trying to benefit the hive, and once they realize that a different course of action must be taken to do so, they will.
Actually, if enough people had revolted against authority, maybe, just maybe, Ralle could have rethought his ways. I don't know about you, but I've had moments in my life when I was left alone. Those moments made me reevaluate my stand. I've changed based on a few of those moments. I still think I was in the right on a few others. However, the reevaluation of your ways is what's important, and I have faith he would have seen the error in his.

Now, some people incited revolt, some people lamented the occurrence, but this was not the only two things people did. There were some who either assisted passively at what was happening (a few of them with the responsibility to take a stand, mind you) or, worse, joined the staff, basically stating that the situation was okay (I'll not mention names, we know who they are). Worse yet, people I had trusted. I'd rather be alone than have the wrong sort of people around me.

Others even publicly stated resources were more important than the people making them. This is the degree of moral abasement and degradation on par with some of our most wicked moments in history that went on in this site. This goes to show well the kind of educated and sociable people of nowadays societies.


How about we try to remember this period for the shitstorm that it was, take a moment to reflect that said shitstorm has passed and then breathe, become fulfilled and move on with our lives?
I disagree. It's been three years. I believe it is time to talk about what happened. Why? Because we never did. Maybe I'll just go ahead and make my own version of "A formal excuse".
 
But also incomplete information. If you had been here you'd have witnessed to several scandalous and nefarious attempts to hide what was going on. I wouldn't have any reserves in betting money on how almost 50% of what happened during that period was deleted. The 3 news threads are also not the only places where the situation was discussed.

I have no idea what side is whom in your vision. Or how many are there to begin with.

This.

Was it me? Please do say it, I'd like to hear.

Actually, if enough people had revolted against authority, maybe, just maybe, Ralle could have rethought his ways. I don't know about you, but I've had moments in my life when I was left alone. Those moments made me reevaluate my stand. I've changed based on a few of those moments. I still think I was in the right on a few others. However, the reevaluation of your ways is what's important, and I have faith he would have seen the error in his.

Now, some people incited revolt, some people lamented the occurrence, but this was not the only two things people did. There were some who either assisted passively at what was happening (a few of them with the responsibility to take a stand, mind you) or, worse, joined the staff, basically stating that the situation was okay (I'll not mention names, we know who they are). Worse yet, people I had trusted. I'd rather be alone than have the wrong sort of people around me.

Others even publicly stated resources were more important than the people making them. This is the degree of moral abasement and degradation on par with some of our most wicked moments in history that went on in this site. This goes to show well the kind of educated and sociable people of nowadays societies.


I disagree. It's been three years. I believe it is time to talk about what happened. Why? Because we never did. Maybe I'll just go ahead and make my own version of "A formal excuse".

I said I was inactive during the period of time it happened. I didn't say that I didn't read anything about it until just now; there was much more on the topic then than what is still here now. I was here during the drama; I just wasn't active, as in I wasn't posting anything (sometimes I stop making posts actively for long periods of time, but I'm usually still checking the site regularly).
 
As someone who was around and that time, but didn't give a single flying fuck about it and instead just kept working on actual mapping projects instead of participating in a pointless battle between trolls and counter-trolls, let me just say this:

If you believe freedom of speech is a thing in a forum that is run (and financed) by a private person, then you're delusional.

In the end, Ralle is the beginning and the end of this board. If he decides so, he can practically do everything and nobody really has a right to complain. Private message boards are dictatorships. The reason why this board and the community is still alive is, that we (I know I do) trust Ralle in having good intentions and running this as a passion product.
We are kids that are allowed playing in his garden. You behave, or your parents will come pick you up.

So yeah, I never got the point of the flamewar back then and I still don't get it 3 years later. People were abusing their powers. Ralle banned them. End of story.
 
In my opinion, I think this whole drama was the fault of- Error 404, commentor knows jack shit.
But the commentor actually has a name and avatar picture that would have matched that time perfectly. Minus the porn.
... That's about the only stuff that I miss from the war. Let's mourne the loss of great porn in this memorial.
 
May Allah bring their souls to peace.




And women.
May Allah bring their souls to women.
May women bring their souls to peace.
May Allah bring their souls women.
May Allah bring their women to peace.

...
Mmm; i still have trouble figuring this out. :/
 
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