[Campaign] Wrath of Kael'thas

[Zenonoth]

Wrath of Kael'thas is the ultimate campaign project currently in development by Team Nightfall, which is mostly focused on a custom lore.

"After the events of World of Warcraft - Legion, Kael'thas is somehow still alive, he has been biding his time ever since his defeat at the events of the sunwell, but it turns out that it was merely another setback, now Kael'thas has returned with his newly empowered brethren, the Dark Elves..seeking to conquer the universe with his newly found powers..

Kael'thas easily defeats all the factions of Azeroth and begins to proceed the plans for his ascension to a god, but before he can do so.. Medivh, the last guardian travels back through time to rally ALL the warring factions of Azeroth under one single banner to find and defeat Kael'thas once and for all.

- Over 22 missions, 7 interludes
- Hours of entertaining gameplay
- Custom voice acting
- Over 500 custom items + Existing customized items
- Highly customized content
- 4 New playable races with their own unique techtrees and upgrades
- Unlockable cheat codes
- 3 Bonus missions
- Unlockable Legendary Items
- Various systems

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Early BETA Testing (12/15/2017)

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Coming very soon..

Illidan's Forces - PLAYABLE RACE

coming very soon..

Scourge - PLAYABLE RACE

coming very soon..

Old God's Forces - PLAYABLE RACE

coming very soon..

Army of Azeroth - PLAYABLE RACE

coming very soon..

Dark Elves - ENEMY RACE

coming very soon..

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- Prelude: A Darkened Future
- Chapter One: The Road to Tanaris
- Chapter Two: The Caverns of Time
- Interlude: Return to the Past
- Chapter Three: Opening of the Dark Portal
- Chapter Four: Flames of Hellfire
- Chapter Five: Audience with Stormrage
- Bonus Mission: The Warden's Prison
- Chapter Six: To Tempest Keep
- Interlude: Kael'thas Flees
- Chapter Seven: The Frozen Wastes
- Chapter Eight: The Lich King's Pact
- Chapter Nine: Defense of Icecrown citadel
- Bonus Mission: The Keepers of Ulduar
- Interlude: The Cataclysm Begins
- Chapter Ten: Deathwing Rises
- Chapter Eleven: Rage of the Firelands
- Chapter Twelve: Earth-warder's Retribution
- Interlude: The Aspects Reunited
- Chapter Thirteen: Onwards to Draenor
- Chapter Fourteen: Bleeding Conflict
- Chapter Fifteen: Conflict in Gorgrond
- Chapter Sixteen: Gul'dan Awaits
- Chapter Seventeen: The Burning Shadow
- Interlude: The Armies of Azeroth
- Chapter Nineteen: The Darkness of Xor'kul
- Chapter Twenty: Servants of Sunstrider
- Interlude: The Attack Plan
- Chapter Twenty One: Sunstrider's Destiny
- Chapter Twenty Two: The Final Battle
- Bonus Mission: He still lives..

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TBA

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TBA

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TBA

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Coming very soon..

 

[Zenonoth]

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Medivh - Guardian
''Medivh is the main hero of this campaign, after seeing Azeroth subdued by Kael'thas and his forces, he travels back through time to gather all the warring factions to unite under a single banner of saving the universe from Kael'thas' plans!"

Tirisfal Bolt: Launches a bolt at an enemy; dealing damage
Tirisfal Blast: Blasts the enemy with Shadow/Arcane damage in an area around the caster
Guardian's Aura (PASSIVE): Provides a leech effect to nearby melee units
Might of the Guardian: Medivh empowers himself increasing his damage greatly

Nozdormu - Dragon Aspect
"Nozdormu is the first ally that Medivh encounters during his journey to the Caverns of Time so that he may commence his journey"

Hourglass Prison: Imprisons the enemy in an hourglass for 5 sec
Borrowed Time: Links nearby enemies to each other sharing the damage they take
Time Warp: Provides attack speed
Stop Time: Stops all enemies for 30 seconds from doing any action in an area

Illidan Stormrage - Demon Hunter
"The Betrayer is the lord of outland, and is the first major ally to be recruited by Medivh who seeks Illidan's forces' assistance in defeating Kael'thas"

Throw Glaive: Deals ticking damage to an enemy after getting struck
Immolation: Deals fire damage to nearby enemies
Shadow Prison: Imprisons a target for 10 sec
Metamorphosis: Transforms Illidan into a demon with enhanced abilities

Lady Vashj - Naga Sea Witch
"Lady Vashj is fiercely loyal to Illidan and would always follow his cause without question.."

Forked Lightning: Deals damage to 3 enemies in a cone infront of the caster
Icy Arrows: Slows enemies when ranged struck
Mana Shield: Provides protection at the cost of mana
Typhoon: Summons a tornado that destroys buildings and cyclones units.

Akama - Elder Sage
"Akama was always aware that Illidan's vision was short-sighted but with Medivh's arrival, he has no choice but to play along with his dark master.

Chain Lightning: Deals jumping nature damage to linked targets
Shadow Strike: Slows enemies and deals ticking damage
Spirit Wolves: Summons spirit wolves to fight for Akama
Reincarnation (PASSIVE): Returns Akama to life when slain

Kargath Bladefist - Warlord
"When Illidan conquered Outland from the Pit Lord, Magtheridon.. he subdued the Fel Orcs to serve him, Kargath was ever since then appointed as the Fel Horde's warchief"

Battle Shout: Boosts the damage of nearby friendly units
Charge: Stuns an enemy for 5 sec
Parry (PASSIVE): Gives a chance to miss attacks
Bloodrage: Boosts attack speed by a great amount

Maiev Shadowsong - Warden [BONUS UNLOCKABLE HERO]
"Maiev was always known to be Illidan's Archenemy, when she desperately tried to recapture Illidan on Outland, she was eventually defeated and taken to a prison cell in shadowmoon valley, Kael'thas plans to manipulate Maiev and sends his Dark elves after her, the heroes are tasked to saving her before Kael'thas' forces can reach her

Fan of Knives: Deals damage in an area around the caster
Shadow Strike: Slows enemies and deals ticking damage
Blink: Teleports Maiev a short distance
Vengeance: Maiev greatly empowers her attack speed

Arthas - Lich King
"Medivh's time-traveling leads him to Arthas before he was slain at the battle of Icecrown citadel, unable to accept the fate of an Azeroth under the control of Kael'thas and not ruled by his Scourge; Arthas joins Medivh on his journey"

Summon Drudge Ghouls: Summons an army of Ghouls to fight for Arthas
Soul Reaper: Deals high damage after applying a debuff
Frost Presence (PASSIVE): Provides a health bonus
Fury of Frostmourne: Greatly boosts attack speed

Kel'Thuzad - Lich
"The Archlich of Naxxramas is at Arthas' beckoned call, he obeys his master without question..."

Frostbolt: Deals single target frost damage
Frost Armor: Boosts armor of friendly units
Cold Ritual: Sacrifices an undead unit to boost mana
Death and Decay: Slowly decays the enemy's units/structures in an area

Anub'arak - Crypt Lord
"The ancient king of Azjol-Nerub, now turned a champion of the Scourge has decided to follow his master on his major plans in allying with the living"

Icy Impale: Launches enemies in the air; dealing damage and stunning them
Raise Beetles: Raises corpse beetles to fight for Anub'arak
Spiked Carapce (PASSIVE): Boosts Anub'arak's armor and grants him a punishing damage
Insect Swarm: Deals damage and leeches health from nearby enemies

Deathwing - Dragon Aspect
"With the arrival of the Cataclysm, Deathwing emerges from this world to bring forth the hour of twilight, maddened by the old gods' whispers, Medivh succeeds in purifying Deathwing and swaying him to his side for the purpose of stopping Kael'thas"

Flame Breath: Deals damage in a cone infront of Deathwing
Lava Tendrils: Spawns lava tentacles to fight for Deathwing
Lava Armor: Grants Deathwing bonus armor and punishing damage
Madness of Deathwing: Boosts attack speed by an enormous amount at the cost of health

Ragnaros - Firelord
"Seeing his firelands threatened by Kael'thas' advancing Dark elf legions, Ragnaros agrees to side with Deathwing and Medivh for his own ends.."

Sulfuras Slam: Launches a flaming shockwave in a row at enemies
Empower Sulfuras: Increases attack damage
Lava Wave: Ragnaros deals damage in an AoE around him
Supernova: Ragnaros explodes; killing himself and all enemies around him

Grommash - Blademaster
"With Medivh's final arrival on Draenor to recruit the orcs to join his army against Kael'thas, Grommash and Durotan humbly accept the offer and proceed to fighting the Dark elves invading Draenor.."

Windwalk: Grants stealth + Backstab damage
Mirror Image: Creates copies of Grommash
Demoralizing Roar: Reduces damage of nearby enemies
Bladestorm: Deals high damage in an area surrounding the caster

Durotan - Warlord
"With Medivh's final arrival on Draenor to recruit the orcs to join his army against Kael'thas, Grommash and Durotan humbly accept the offer and proceed to fighting the Dark elves invading Draenor.."

Battle Shout: Boosts the damage of nearby friendly units
Charge: Stuns an enemy for 5 sec
Parry (PASSIVE): Gives a chance to miss attacks
Bloodrage: Boosts attack speed by a great amount

Gul'dan - Warlock
"Gul'dan was one of the few orcs to refuse Kael'thas' offerings for power and decides to take his chances with the legion; eventually leading to his capture and release by Medivh, seeing this is an unholy alliance..Gul'dan presents Medivh and his allies to the Legion's masters"

Shadow Bolt: Deals single target damage
Curse of Agony: Deals ticking damage
Drain Life: Leeches health from enemies
Rain of Fire: Calls down waves of fire to incinerate enemies and deal huge damage to them

Archimonde - Warlock
"The Burning Legion is being torn apart and defeated by Kael'thas unmatched forces.. Kil'jaeden, Mannoroth and Tichondrius have already fallen under his influence, seeing that he is the only one left to carry Sargeras' will, he forces his legionnaires to fight alongside Medivh for the ultimate battle on Kael'thas' homeworld"

Dark Portal: Summons an assortment of demonic warriors
Rain of Chaos: Summons infernals to aid the caster
Fel Fissure: Summons a fel fissure from the ground to destroy his opponents
Finger of Death: Deals high single target damage

Zakuun - Fel Lord
"Archimonde's most trusted lieutenant, Zakuun follows Archimonde's plans eventually into allying with the heroes to defeat Kael'thas"

Chaos Wave: Slams the axe to deal a conical damage infront of the caster
Summon Fel Guards: Summons Fel Guards to aid the caster
Fel Slam: Deals AoE damage to enemies
Fel Frenzy: Grants enormous attack speed boost at the cost of damage taken

Balnazzar - Dreadlord
"One of a few Dreadlords who remain loyal to Archimonde after Kael'thas' subjugation of the legion.."

Carrion Swarm: Deals a conical damage infront of the caster
Sleep: Sleeps the target for a duration
Vampiric Aura (PASSIVE): Grants leech on each attack
Earthquake: Destroys buildings and slows units overtime.

- Maps: 80%
- Terrains: 50%
- Spells: 90%
- Items: 90%
- Systems: 20%
- Imports: 90%
- Techtree: 90%
- Voice Acting: 70%
- Enemy AI: 0%
- Overall Progress: 65%

- Modeler(s): Full
- Reskiner(s): Needed A LOT
- Spell Maker(s): Needed A LOT
- Terrainer(s): Mid-need
- Voice Actor(s): Mid-need
- Suggestion/Idea Giver(s): Mid-need
- Beta Tester(s): Needed A LOT
- AI Editor Expert(s): Needed A LOT

- Authors: Zenonoth, trebla ratilla, joaquim98, millzy, WarcraftLiterature
- Awesome Contributors: deepstrasz, Walichrage, LISBOAH, Heini

Topic being updated by the minute..

 

[Wareditor]

Subscribing
Good luck with this project.

 

[LISBOAH]

This sounds promising. Good luck!

So, if I get it straight, the Scourge will be on the side of good, even if temporarily? That would be cool!

If you want, I can give ideas and advices about abilities and lore.

 

[Hawkr]

Good luck with the project!

 

[trebla ratilla]

nice...

 

[deepstrasz]

If you are to follow WoW canon, then Kael is dead for good. He was decapitated. If you are not to follow WoW but maybe either continue with TfT or somewhere from the Burning Crusade, then I guess it works.
Considering that in Burning Crusade Kael used fel magicks, we could assume part of him became demon, thus after being beheaded, part of his soul might have gone to the Twisting Nether. Now, we have to figure out how he gets out of there and into an elven body, also regaining most if not all of his powers.

Dark Elves apparently were mentioned in the Day of the Dragon book as being the Kaldorei/Night Elves, although I have o memory of that. Dark Elf is a generic term as it can even refer to the Highborne.
Legion introduced the Nightborne/Shal'dorei. They are located on the Broken Isles which were raised by Gul'dan in Tides of Darkness (Warcraft II). Now, not even him nor Maiev and her Watchers did see any Nightborne there. Nor do the nage mention anything about it. Besides, the Sundering pretty much annihilated any trace of life and land. I don't really buy the fact that they made an energy sphere Dalaran-like to protect against the immense Well of Eternity's explosion. Even if they resided underwater/underground under a magical bubble, after Gul'dan raised the isles, they would have felt the quakes and would have tried to get out to avoid dying because of crumbling debris. Moreover, there was no time for them to prepare the spell and fight demons while the Well was overcharging. Most of the Night Elves fled for sure otherwise they would not have been seen in RoC.

Now, let's put more theory in. As they made Alleria become a void hybrid in Legion (meh; mysteries of the Twisting Nether I guess), then maybe Kael might come back as a void being from the Nether somehow (somehow his soul escaping L'ura's control when Alleria destroys it?; or let's create a void creature that feeds on Nether souls, thus Kael will either be freed when the creature is slain or by having to siphon energy from other captured spirits to finally be able to break through the void creature's membrane, assuming the creature is some sort of fish or squid and spirits are locked in some sort of void goo prison(s) until they get fully digested/absorbed into the creature.
From there on, he gets out of the Twisting Nether (maybe after doing some time there searching for knowledge and of course magic) in pursue of more power, his thoughts being hard on the World Tree and the Second Well of Eternity.

Let's get back to dark elves. Where to get these from? I'm not sure you'd want to make Kael a necromancer and raise dead elves. However, knowing that souls of the dead wander through the Twisting Nether, maybe Kael could get all those vengeful elven spirits, be they ancient Highborne, Blood Elves, Satyrs or Naga. Thing is, that would make the Dark Elves the Wraith or maybe Void Elves

We need to know the setting. Is there anything left of the Burning Legion? If not, maybe Kael could become the commander of a new order, the Fel Void Legion (messing around ) or something where demons, undead, void denizens and whatnot form the structural basis. To get control over the demons, Kael would be required to wrestle with the remaining leaders of the Burning Legion.

Kael'thas easily defeats all the factions of Azeroth and begins to proceed the plans for his ascension to a god, but before he can do so.. Medivh, the last guardian travels back through time to rally ALL the warring factions of Azeroth under one single banner to find and defeat Kael'thas once and for all.

Although Medivh makes some minor appearances in WoW (+some expansions), he was quite clear at the end of RoC that "the world no longer needed Guardians." Why would he go back in time to rally everyone? I mean he could just simply go back in time to kill Kael for good. I advise in avoiding time travel in Warcraft as much as possible.
I don't think turning Kael'thas into a major boss for all factions to ally against is a good and believable story plot.

''Medivh is the main hero of this campaign

Ah... so we're not playing with/as Kael'thas? That's what I thought
So, we are mostly playing as characters who had something to do with Kael'thas? What about so many other characters and factions?

Well, as always, I'm pretty straight to the point/blunt. So, no hard feelings I hope Most of all, I hope this helps even if a little.

 

[LISBOAH]

If you are to follow WoW canon, then Kael is dead for good. He was decapitated. If you are not to follow WoW but maybe either continue with TfT or somewhere from the Burning Crusade, then I guess it works.

Most likely he won't follow the canon part of "Kael'thas dying for good"

Considering that in Burning Crusade Kael used fel magicks, we could assume part of him became demon, thus after being beheaded, part of his soul might have gone to the Twisting Nether. Now, we have to figure out how he gets out of there and into an elven body, also regaining most if not all of his powers.

We will have to wait and see how @Zenonoth explains this.

Legion introduced the Nightborne/Shal'dorei. They are located on the Broken Isles which were raised by Gul'dan in Tides of Darkness (Warcraft II). Now, not even him nor Maiev and her Watchers did see any Nightborne there. Nor do the nage mention anything about it. Besides, the Sundering pretty much annihilated any trace of life and land. I don't really buy the fact that they made an energy sphere Dalaran-like to protect against the immense Well of Eternity's explosion. Even if they resided underwater/underground under a magical bubble, after Gul'dan raised the isles, they would have felt the quakes and would have tried to get out to avoid dying because of crumbling debris. Moreover, there was no time for them to prepare the spell and fight demons while the Well was overcharging. Most of the Night Elves fled for sure otherwise they would not have been seen in RoC.

True.
Maybe some kind of renegade Nightbournes?

Although Medivh makes some minor appearances in WoW (+some expansions), he was quite clear at the end of RoC that "the world no longer needed Guardians." Why would he go back in time to rally everyone? I mean he could just simply go back in time to kill Kael for good. I advise in avoiding time travel in Warcraft as much as possible.

True.
But what if he uses this opportunity to unite Azeroth and make peace endure?

I don't think turning Kael'thas into a major boss for all factions to ally against is a good and believable story plot.

It is all up to @Zenonoth

Ah... so we're not playing with/as Kael'thas? That's what I thought
So, we are mostly playing as characters who had something to do with Kael'thas? What about so many other characters and factions?

From I read, we will control the ones that will oppose Kael'thas.

We will even control the Scourge apparently. I, for one, am happy about this!

 

[deepstrasz]

Maybe some kind of renegade Nightbournes?

Well, we need a good explanation of how they came to be. Maybe, Kael would be the one to "create" them with his new well, the Nightwell (I don't really like that one since you know, Moon Well, Night Elves) or Darkwell or something. I don't have the inspiration for it now. So, we make the Dark Elves actually a new thing, not an unbelievable ancient thing Legion tries to throw at us.

But what if he uses this opportunity to unite Azeroth and make peace endure?

I don't know. Is he really needed in the story? I'd rather have Khadgar instead be an anti-mage.
About peace enduring Azeroth. That's invalid since anything could go wrong, right, from newly made enemies to old one revivals.

 

[LISBOAH]

Well, we need a good explanation of how they came to be. Maybe, Kael would be the one to "create" them with his new well, the Nightwell (I don't really like that one since you know, Moon Well, Night Elves) or Darkwell or something. I don't have the inspiration for it now. So, we make the Dark Elves actually a new thing, not an unbelievable ancient thing Legion tries to throw at us.

Yep.
The Dark Elves need to be original in terms of origin and concept...

I don't know. Is he really needed in the story? I'd rather have Khadgar instead be an anti-mage.

I am kind of tired of Khadgar. He already played a big role in Warlords of Draenor and Legion.

What about Med'an? He has never showed in an expansion...

About peace enduring Azeroth. That's invalid since anything could go wrong, right, from newly made enemies to old one revivals.

And peace would be only temporary...so...you are right.

 

[Chaosy]

If you are to follow WoW canon, then Kael is dead for good. He was decapitated.

Actually, if you do follow WoW lore you would know that all Priests and Paladins perform a resurrection as a part of their training.
Meaning it can be done easily.

(though I do agree that this is really boring since it negates the importance of death)

Edit: as long as the body remains, I think it can be resurrected. This is why you burn Undead Bodies, it is the only way to prevent them being risen over and over.

 

[deepstrasz]

What about Med'an? He has never showed in an expansion...

Does he even exist? I mean clearly he should be someone else than the son of Medivh and Garona. No Warcraft RTS says anything about that. Garona pretty much died anyway by the time.. and there was no love story involved until that comic nonsense retconned the... ehm... coal out that part of Warcraft history.

I am kind of tired of Khadgar. He already played a big role in Warlords of Draenor and Legion.

Maybe but not in Warcraft III! If you dislike him or his presence that much, there are always other wizards out there... say, Jaina? At leas she had something to do with Kael. I don't know, you come up with ideas then just saying no.

Actually, if you do follow WoW lore you would know that all Priests and Paladins perform a resurrection as a part of their training.
Meaning it can be done easily.

Meh, I doubt resurrection puts limbs together. However, the altars of Warcraft III, are just the shizz. Whatever happens to your hero, be it dying by a horrible illness, by corrosive acid, exploding to pieces, being vapourized by immense radiation, your hero will come back! As long as you have the resources and food for it of course.

This is why you burn Undead Bodies, it is the only way to prevent them being risen over and over.

Well, I distrust burning to disable wraith revival so might want to exorcise first.

 

[Chaosy]

It goes beyond game mechanics.
In vanilla (or pre cata rather) there was a quest chain for unlocking the ability.
Not to mention it happens to multiple lore characters, Nefarian and Onyxia comes to mind.
Sylvanas, Kel'thuzad, Ragnaros, all through different means.
Even Thrall was resurrected, though that was only in the movie I believe.
If one would want to ressurect somebody there are more than one way to go about it.


And if you think about it, if the spell cannot stitch parts together it would be useless.
There is a very, very high chance that if you die from a cut, parts got cut in half. Be it hands, ears, or innards.

 

[deepstrasz]

Sylvanas, Kel'thuzad

Undead. Irrelevant to the living and holy spell.

Nefarian and Onyxia

Are they even pure living beings?

Ragnaros

Elemental...

Even Thrall was resurrected, though that was only in the movie I believe.

Really!? So, now you can't have premature babies being resuscitated?

If one would want to ressurect somebody there are more than one way to go about it.

Well, it's like saying you could rebuild a golem with giving it oxygen to breathe.

And if you think about it, if the spell cannot stitch parts together it would be useless.

No, it would not. It's like an advanced/magical form of resuscitation. If it would stitch parts back, Holy Light would be useless because there would be no need to use mana for it and instead wait for the living to die to be all brought back. Holy Light closes the wounds, it's like welding the living with an energy capable of fusing the DNA up to the macro.
At least they should be brought back without those parts.

There is a very, very high chance that if you die from a cut, parts got cut in half. Be it hands, ears, or innards.

Tough luck. That's what the undead are for

 

[Chaosy]

The point is that if you really want a resurrection it can be applied.
Kel'thuzad was undead, yes, but they used the SUNWELL as power source, clearly if the magic was wielded by someone else it would have worked on a normal person.
(I suppose you can make the argument that it was the state of the body that made it impossible for him to come back in the flesh, but I think it is more logical that he came back dead because arthas used dark magic, hinting at the fact that the opposite can be done)

As for Nefarian, I honestly thought he was properly ressurected (I knew onyxia was not), but turns out that he is some sort of hybrid, Wowwiki states "Nefarian appears to have been ressurected into some degree of undeath" but I do not see any signs visually.

 

[deepstrasz]

Kel'thuzad was undead, yes, but they used the SUNWELL as power source, clearly if the magic was wielded by someone else it would have worked on a normal person.

True. However, the Sunwell does not specifically possess holy magic/light but arcane magic. Honestly, it was only a means of empowering necromantic prowess with arcane magic. I'm not quite certain if the sun has direct connection to the Holy Light although, it can be cast even underground because the energy might also come from the enlightened Light user. Funny thing is that in Orcs & Humans, the manual mentions a God the Light wielders venerated. There's even mention of angels, not to mention the very known demons. Let's not forget that the Warcraft III Resurrection spell calls an angel of light (symbolically or not) to the field.

clearly if the magic was wielded by someone else it would have worked on a normal person.

Obviously, but that is a catalyst. It's not like using the Light to revive undead. It depends on the magical source. Some are neutral in that might be catalysts but are useless alone. As you've mentioned, Arthas had to use necromancy (empowered by the arcane magic of the Sunwell) to help Kel'thuzad transcend.

I suppose you can make the argument that it was the state of the body that made it impossible for him to come back in the flesh

That's another argument, yes.

Oh yeah, and I totally forgot about those angels (Spirit Healers) first seen in the original WoW who also acted like altars. However, they do not look like made of light but of some other strange energy as if they even have a material body. Even worse, I mean better, heroes could revive themselves by connecting their souls with their bodies which of course could never be torn apart Not to mention that so many classes in the MMORPG have at least one resurrection ability for gameplay mechanics balance (?).
Well, Odyn and his Halls of Valour either bring back Vrykuls as they were or transcends them into advanced matter. Man, my head hurts. But, I guess, Vrykuls are closer to metal as the titans? I wonder how they do it though. Do they tightly fit some material on the souls to get the shape of their body and then fill it up with fleshy content, even organs and stuff? Is the soul some sort of blueprint for the body? I guess...

My gods, how many spirit realms there are, at least four: the Emerald Dream, the Material Plane, the Twisting Nether and the Light...

As for Nefarian, I honestly thought he was properly ressurected (I knew onyxia was not), but turns out that he is some sort of hybrid, Wowwiki states "Nefarian appears to have been ressurected into some degree of undeath"

What... how's that even logical? As if you were some sort of cyborg, part biomatter, part inorganic matter...

EDIT: also Reincarnation of Warcraft III

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By the way @Zenonoth, hope you don't mind if we get a little off-topic. Please do tell us to stop if anything's the matter.

 

[LISBOAH]

What... how's that even logical? As if you were some sort of cyborg, part biomatter, part inorganic matter...

You seem to forget that Nefarian was raised back by Deathwing and his Old Gods masters. The Old Gods possess magic and powers that anything like the necromancy the Scourge uses. Nefarian was not an ordinary undead, but more like his mother Sintharia, a clearly insane aberration...

 

[Atshiel]

What a interesting idea! I'll keep an eye on this one.

 

[deepstrasz]

ou seem to forget that Nefarian was raised back by Deathwing and his Old Gods masters.

I don't have to. That Old Gods lameness is what I don't want in my head. Everything until Sargeras, from there on no. The Old Gods were chained for good by the titans in my book. The Dragon Aspects where left to protect the equilibrium of the planet. Let's be serious here, it took the Twisting Nether's Eredar and Nathrezim along with the endless stress he had to endure to drive Sargeras off order. None of the five Old Gods did something like that to the titans. Did you know the Old Gods had citadels as per the RoC manual ? Although the word can symbolically mean a means of protection. Funny thing is that the manual doesn't say how the Titans and Old Gods look like, it only says the titans are colossal metallic-skinned gods and the gods have control over the elements on a primitive shaped world and they're called unfathomable evil beings as to differentiate them from the titan look and possibly even from what they've seen since then. Fact is, they've not encountered any Old God before Azeroth and they've terraformed or at least brought order to a hundred million and who knows how many more before Sargeras went mad and they started their path to the not yet found Azeroth. They empowered countless primitive races. That might mean they did not only create (like in Azeroth through the Well of Eternity) but also found existing life for sure.

Also, please give me arguments, not just examples.

Nefarian

He was decapitated in WoW then appeared out of nowhere as undead (the wiki says) with his head on, LoL (his head is supposed to be in Orgrimmar or Stormwind on a pike). Hard to think somebody stole it during the night with it being so big. Maybe, the undead one is a clone ? Also, the same with Onyxia
But whaaaat, they made dragons mad scientists....

------------------------------------------------

Hey, I got another idea 'bout the Dark Elves. I'm referring to the Nightborne though.
So, when the Sundering fractured, actually obliterated most of Suramar (it's pretty strange that it didn't destroy it all since it was basically near to the well than other continental parts which are there no more or at least might be sunk), the night elves there fell to the sea and partially died, entering some sort of hibernation within the Maelstrom (gotta figure out how they would survive though). These elves are arcane sorcery experts, so instead of creating a big magical bubble which would require a lot of time to channel and prepare, they would magically freeze (cover themselves in magic repellent matter, like a crystal or diamond, metal or something) themselves to avoid being pulverized, that with the addition of the remaining soil to hide/cover in. They remained there for 10K or so years until Gul'dan raised the Broken Isles. However, they were buried by nature's currents in the deepest parts of the soil. Nobody discovered them because no one ventured to the depths of the Tomb of Sargeras and other parts of the islands. Plus, those frozen/mummified elves were covered by algae, dirt and other matter so that they either give the impression of being statues or are simply unrecognizable as what they were.
From hereon, we can stipulate that Kael, went to the Tomb of Sargeras after his return from the Nether in order to see what magic was there to be had. Demons being less than before due to Gul'dan, Maiev and Illidan's travels there, Kael with or without any companions, could take his time searching minutely through the ruin depths. Thus he would find the strange hardened shapes either lying about or stuck to and into ruin walls. He would realize what is in them and would find a way to magically revive the life forms breaking the barrier. However, because of so many years in magical hibernation (think of it as some sort of cryopreservation), they would not be able to survive without magic unlike (as Legion says; although Kael in TfT says they would die without magic not hop into withdrawal) the Blood Elves who were just addicted to magic. Kael would have to find a way to keep them alive but his own magic would not be enough so, as the Maelstrom exists, it could be used to channel its energies through some crystals or pipework to a main energy container on the surface of the isles. However, this is not a mobile source and the Dark Elves, or let's call them Deep Elves , will begin to wither till death takes them one by one. Thus they would have to carry crystals charged with energy from the Maelstrom to be able to wander off the isles, albeit not for a long time.
Now, as Vashj is dead (or at least in WoW), Kael would have a hard time trying to get to the naga, so to be able to reach the Maelstrom through the underground, the Deep Elves would have to dig and use magic spheres to avoid drowning, being electrocuted (by the Maelstrom's discharges), landslide and be able to construct the network to harness the power of the Maelstrom.
Why didn't the naga find these bastards before? Maybe they did find some of them but either did not realize what they were (used them as ornaments for their underwater palaces) or just couldn't revive them properly so instead of killing more, they left them encased.

 

[stein123]

Why not make them just basically void elves, or a mix between void and felblood elves, maybe the remanents of the felblood elves and kael himself changed their alleigance to the void lords, transforming them on a new kind of creatures?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I would go with the plot that Kael'thas has found some source of magic powerful enough to revitalize and/or control the Wretched and called his new group "Dark Elves".

 

[deepstrasz]

Why not make them just basically void elves, or a mix between void and felblood elves, maybe the remanents of the felblood elves and kael himself changed their alleigance to the void lords, transforming them on a new kind of creatures?

Well, yes, that was the first idea although based on the elven spirits in the Twisting Nether and not on the living which might get into the Nether (how by the way? Alleria had the chance to due to Ner'zhul opening the rifts using the knowledge from the Book of Medivh, some power from the Skull of Gul'dan and channeling all that through the Scepter of Sargeras which by the way remained on him). I don't see a good explanation how Kael might get the Wretched, or other elves into the Twisting Nether. He'd need huge power for that. Even if he himself becomes a void hybrid (the way I mentioned in an earlier post), he would still not be able to get elves en masse to the Twisting Nether and doing it one by one would take a very long time. Also void lords aren't known to be traveling to planets out of their realm, maybe for good reasons? There might be some sort of barrier and their composition might not withstand the material plane making them vulnerable or something?

I would go with the plot that Kael'thas has found some source of magic powerful enough to revitalize and/or control the Wretched and called his new group "Dark Elves".

The Wretched are a lost cause. Apart from being almost extinct, they are weak and don't think straight because of their addiction.
It's strange that they did not heal after the Sunwell was rebuilt. I guess, it's not reversible?

Anyways, I'm hoping for a bit more details than "I like that instead".
@MasterBlaster you're mentioning a powerful magic source for revitalization. Would you use your imagination on that? What exactly do you have in mind?

 

[LISBOAH]

Let's be serious here, it took the Twisting Nether's Eredar and Nathrezim along with the endless stress he had to endure to drive Sargeras off order. None of the five Old Gods did something like that to the titans.

They changed that part.

Sargeras encountered a planet that was corrupted by Old Gods, to the point of the titan that resided inside was corrupted. Sargeras in desperation destroyed that planet and later found out that the Old Gods are creations of the Void Lords, that aimed to corrupt everything that exists. Sargeras after being consumed by despair decided that he had to destroy existence, for a universe without life would be better than one corrupted by the Void.

Did you know the Old Gods had citadels as per the RoC manual ? Although the word can symbolically mean a means of protection.

Before the Titans arrived, the Old Gods ruled Azeroth in something called the Black Empire
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...kEmpire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160318225602

There were their dominions
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.ne...kEmpire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160316000039

Funny thing is that the manual doesn't say how the Titans and Old Gods look like, it only says the titans are colossal metallic-skinned gods and the gods have control over the elements on a primitive shaped world and they're called unfathomable evil beings as to differentiate them from the titan look and possibly even from what they've seen since then.

These are the Old Gods' forms
https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/1/1a/Old_Gods_2.jpg

He was decapitated in WoW then appeared out of nowhere as undead (the wiki says) with his head on, LoL (his head is supposed to be in Orgrimmar or Stormwind on a pike). Hard to think somebody stole it during the night with it being so big. Maybe, the undead one is a clone ? Also, the same with Onyxia

Maybe they stole their heads while Deathwing was attacking Stormwind?
In Orgrimmar's case we know that some members of the Twilight Hammer infiltrated in the Horde so they could have stolen their heads?

 

[deepstrasz]

They changed that part.

I know, that's why I wrote that I didn't want it in my head.
I had a whole convo with @Razosh here: Sargeras vs the Old Gods

Maybe they stole their heads while Deathwing was attacking Stormwind?
In Orgrimmar's case we know that some members of the Twilight Hammer infiltrated in the Horde so they could have stolen their heads?

It's better than nothing. Still the ideas of resurrecting them and dragons being scientist is baffling.
However, I have found nothing on the Twilight Hammer having anything to do with Orgrimmar.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The Wretched are a lost cause. Apart from being almost extinct, they are weak and don't think straight because of their addiction. It's strange that they did not heal after the Sunwell was rebuilt. I guess, it's not reversible?

Maybe they're unable to feed on the Sunwell's energy? I mean, did we even get an explanation on how the High Elves/Blood Elves were "eating" Sunwell's energy? Perhaps it requires a little bit of conscious effort that the Wretched are no longer capable of making?

Anyway, I base my idea on the fact that in the Warlords of Draenor, Cho'gall used Pale Orcs as his warriors by feeding them the energy of void N'aru K'ure. As far as I'm aware, Pale Orcs are pretty similar in concept to the Wretched, i.e. basically husks controlled by magic with little to none higher brain functions left. If they could be "revitalized" to a point where they could fight and use magic, perhaps the same could be done with the Wretched?

As for the source of magic, I'd venture a guess that it has to be some void stuff as well, given the fact that in order for Kael'thas to be revived, it would require a pretty strong source of magic. I mean, it just makes a ton more sense that some pretty big power would resurrect Kael'thas for some purpose.

Based on Warcraft chronicle, there are 6 major sources of power in the universe - Void, Light, Arcane, Fel, Nature and Death.

The Legion might potentially be interested in bringing Kael'thas back, but if the campaign is set to take place after WoW:Legion, the Legion is in disarray and most of its prominent members and most powerful fel users are gone. That said, I just can't see the Legion being behind Kael'thas' resurrection.

Light, Arcane and Nature forces don't really seem like ones that would be particularly interested in reviving Kael'thas... Well, maybe some mages, but resurrection is not really their cup of tea, so even if that was to be the case, it would still be weird.

That leaves us with Death and Void. The first one could be represented by Bolvar, i.e. the Lich King, which could make sense, but... why would Bolvar raise Kael from the grave and have him build up an army of elves instead of just having him serve as the commander of the undead? It would be weird, but heck, the LK is definetely a possibility. Another cool option is Kel'Thuzad. We know that his phylactery wasn't destroyed, so he is definetely still out there and as a powerful wielder of undeath magic he probably would be able to resurrect Kael'thas. The motive is also there as Kel'thuzad would probably love to get his revenge on the mortal races, the same as Kael, which makes them natural allies.

Actually, come to think of it, the alliance between Kael'thas and Kel'thuzad would be pretty amazing, imo. Dark Elves could just be resurrected Elves/Kael's former minions.

My original idea however was about the Void. Be it N'zoth or Azshara, they are still one of the last remaining "evil" powers that would surely find a use for Kael'thas and if if the void energy had good effects on Pale Orcs, perhaps it could also be used to revitalize the Wretched somehow.

---

Still, right now I prefer the K't+K't combo way more

 

[Ether]

Hey, this is some worth the wait and worth to look upcoming campaign.
And Kael'thas, with another set back on a set back on a set back by a set back ?

 

[LISBOAH]

Hey, this is some worth the wait and worth to look upcoming campaign.
And Kael'thas, with another set back on a set back on a set back by a set back ?

Wrath of Kael'thas: The Revenge of the Set Back: The Reckoning
Coming soon in a theater near to you!

When can we expect the first beta @Zenonoth ?

 

[Zenonoth]

Soon @LISBOAH

My campaign isn't that lore-following, added more information about Playable Characters and their abilities, will update list with a video and enemies as soon as possible.

 

[LISBOAH]

Soon @LISBOAH

My campaign isn't that lore-following, added more information about Playable Characters and their abilities, will update list with a video and enemies as soon as possible.

Ok.

I just read the first page again.

Deathwing gets redeemed? That is awesome! I always felt a little bad over the fact that he died without earning redemption and he doesn't even regain his sanity before dying, kind of like how Arthas did.

Will other villains also be redeemed? Arthas, Vashj, Kel'Thuzad?

Archimonde is the last free commander of the Burning Legion? That is actually kind of ironic, considering that he was the most short-tempered and reckless.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I don't like the idea of redeeming villains too much - well, maybe Arthas, since I'm a bit of a fanboy, but other than that... Not really. Though a good story arc would definetely change my mind

P.S. I'm still waiting for @deepstrasz to review the results of my imagination at work

 

[LISBOAH]

I don't like the idea of redeeming villains too much - well, maybe Arthas, since I'm a bit of a fanboy, but other than that... Not really. Though a good story arc would definetely change my mind

Some villains are way cooler when they are evil and redeeming them is a waste. That I agree.

However, in the case of Deathwing, I feel only sympathy and pity for him as he was driven mad by the Old Gods until he became pretty much insanity incarnate. I hoped that the Aspects would actually mourn after his death.

 

[deepstrasz]

@LISBOAH
Hey, what about a headless dragon instead xD?

Will other villains also be redeemed? Arthas, Vashj, Kel'Thuzad?

Oh, titans no, I hope not.
No more bringing characters back man. Make new ones or use older living ones.

Maybe they're unable to feed on the Sunwell's energy? I mean, did we even get an explanation on how the High Elves/Blood Elves were "eating" Sunwell's energy? Perhaps it requires a little bit of conscious effort that the Wretched are no longer capable of making?

The wiki says, the elves bathed in the well's power, literally or not, I don't know. I don't buy the need of consciousness. They are sentient, not mindless. They obviously could use the Sunwell's power but I don't know if that will turn them back to what they were. But why not?

The Legion might potentially be interested in bringing Kael'thas back, but if the campaign is set to take place after WoW:Legion, the Legion is in disarray and most of its prominent members and most powerful fel users are gone. That said, I just can't see the Legion being behind Kael'thas' resurrection.

Yeah. That wouldn't make an interesting story either.

That leaves us with Death and Void. The first one could be represented by Bolvar, i.e. the Lich King, which could make sense, but... why would Bolvar raise Kael from the grave and have him build up an army of elves instead of just having him serve as the commander of the undead? It would be weird, but heck, the LK is definetely a possibility

Bolvar pretty much got himself frozen there. Besides, he'd have to know about Kael to be able to say, resurrect his headless body, that after he'd find out of the whereabouts. However, the helm of the Lich King might still contain pieces of Arthas' and/or Ner'zhul's soul which might or not be able to wrestle control over Bolvar's body unless he takes it off and by doing so, the Scourge would run rampant. Other than that, Bolvar isn't evil, so even if he'd raise Kael for some LoL reason, as you've said, he would be under his command. Sylvanas got cut from the Scourge because of the Lich King's dwindling power. After that, her strong will probably kept her in control of her undeath.
Also, who from Azeroth would want to revive Kael and why?

The motive is also there as Kel'thuzad would probably love to get his revenge on the mortal races, the same as Kael, which makes them natural allies.

The vengeance idea is nice but how would Kael escape his control and be able to live as undead without Kel' sustaining him? Also, man that phylactery business sure is one lame story element. You even get the item after his defeat and what, they still don't know where the artifact is

Dark Elves could just be resurrected Elves/Kael's former minions.

Yeah, but that would require Kael to be a necromancer. An alliance between the two would not work. Now, if we are to integrate Kel' in the story, Kael could by escaping from the Nether find that phylactery and somehow make 'Thuzad his slave using him to reanimate elves en masse. This would also create a new type of felundead faction which would rival the Forsaken.

My original idea however was about the Void. Be it N'zoth or Azshara, they are still one of the last remaining "evil" powers that would surely find a use for Kael'thas and if if the void energy had good effects on Pale Orcs, perhaps it could also be used to revitalize the Wretched somehow.

We don't know much about Aszhara than that she still is called the empress of the naga. Maybe she's a naga too deep under? Or, maybe she died and went to the Nether? But the how would have other night elves become naga without her arcane prowess and not drown? Of course, unless the naughty Old Gods theories...
But going by the naga theory, might as well have new characters.

 

[LISBOAH]

@LISBOAH
Hey, what about a headless dragon instead xD?

How he would he talk and walk without mouth and eyes respectively it is up to imagination.

Oh, titans no, I hope not.
No more bringing characters back man. Make new ones or use older living ones.

This is a "going back in time" campaign so I am certain more dead people will show up.

The vengeance idea is nice but how would Kael escape his control and be able to live as undead without Kel' sustaining him? Also, man that phylactery business sure is one lame story element. You even get the item after his defeat and what, they still don't know where the artifact is

We grabbed his phylactery and delievered it to a member of the Argent Crusade. Said guy delievered it to the Lich King and was turned into a lich as a reward.

 

[deepstrasz]

ow he would he talk and walk without mouth and eyes respectively it is up to imagination.

Soul inside the body ? Cutting his head won't cut his souls too I guess.

Said guy

Sad guy indeed. But then we defeat him a second time. This time we should be sure to... ah never mind... WoW logic...

This is a "going back in time" campaign so I am certain more dead people will show up.

I don't buy this one bit. Doesn't really make too much sense to me. So, Medivh goes back in time and is able to heal Deathwing? Why doesn't he just fight Kael with one finger if he is so powerful? Or, why doesn't he just go back in time to kill Kael and lock his soul somewhere not able to be found if he can't eliminate it? Why the big deal of going back in time to get a load of characters to the future? If I'd be Nozdormu, I'd be pretty pissed a Medivh's felcoholic behaviour...

 

[MasterBlaster]

The wiki says, the elves bathed in the well's power, literally or not, I don't know.

Well then, if they literraly bathe in the Sunwell... Uhm, outside of it being rather not too hygenic, I can't see the Blood Elves running a public bath for Wretched
But in all seriousness, they probably siphon the energy somehow, perhaps the wretched are too devolved to do that again? Or perhaps, the Blood Elves are somehow blocking them?

They obviously could use the Sunwell's power but I don't know if that will turn them back to what they were. But why not?

I don't know about the obvious part... I mean, is there a source that says that the Wretched regained access to the Sunwell when it was reignited? If not, then all we can do is guess whether they have access to it or not, so it's definetely not "obvious".

As to why it doesn't restore them if they have access to it? I have absolutely no idea and I don't think it has even been explored in the lore that much Perhaps they are truly too far gone and if they were given some other source of magic to feed on, maybe the only thing that would happen is that they would swap one addiction for another and just follow to feed their hunger?

Bolvar pretty much got himself frozen there.

He was using DKs in Legion to do some shady stuff though (DKs class campaign). So yeah, his butt may be frozen solid, but he has minions with which he can make things happen.

Besides, he'd have to know about Kael to be able to say, resurrect his headless body, that after he'd find out of the whereabouts.

Kael was slain before Bolvar became the Lich King, so it's completely plausible for Bolvar to know about it - after all, he was once a pretty high ranking member of the Alliance, so that information could have totally reached him.

Other than that, Bolvar isn't evil

Are you sure? It's been a while since he became the Lich King. As you said, there might still be some part of Ner'zhul/Arthas left in the helm, so while Bolvar was definetely not "evil" when he took the throne, he might have been corrupted.

even if he'd raise Kael for some LoL reason, as you've said, he would be under his command.

Yes, that is true and I doubt that Kael would be able to break free from that control. Good point.

Also, who from Azeroth would want to revive Kael and why?

Kael was a quite formidable foe, so there might be forces that would be interested in using him. As I've said, probably either the void or death alligned ones. Or perhaps some hidden group of his former followers.

The vengeance idea is nice but how would Kael escape his control and be able to live as undead without Kel' sustaining him?

I think that the alliance between the two would totally work - sure, Kel'thuzad took part in the scourging of Quel'Thalas, so there's a chance that Kael might have a grudge against him. However, I think that with what happened in TBC (i.e. Kael putting his thirst for power over his people), it's not that reasonable to asssume that he wouldn't care enough to work with Kel'Thuzad. After all, they really do have quite a lot in common - both were mages of the Kirin'Tor, both hungered for power, both were killed by heroes of Azeroth and likely crave revenge. I'm not saying that they would become friends or something, but an alliance of convenience is definetely a possibility in my book.

Also, perhaps Kel'Thuzad is strong enough to resurrect Kael'thas, but being cut off from the Frozen Throne makes him unable to sustain control over him?

Yeah, but that would require Kael to be a necromancer. An alliance between the two would not work.

Why would it not work?

Now, if we are to integrate Kel' in the story, Kael could by escaping from the Nether find that phylactery and somehow make 'Thuzad his slave using him to reanimate elves en masse.

Actually, I think this would be a pretty amazing story - two villains working together out of necessity and yet both trying to screw each other I know this horse has been beaten to death so many times that it's not even funny, but I'd still enjoy it

This would also create a new type of felundead faction which would rival the Forsaken.

Yeah, about that - somehow I don't think that both of them don't really love Sylvanas, so pissing her off would be a lovely bonus for Kts

We don't know much about Aszhara than that she still is called the empress of the naga. Maybe she's a naga too deep under? Or, maybe she died and went to the Nether?

Wait, didn't we actually see Azshara in Legion? Also, she is said to be a raid boss in Battle for Azeroth, so based on Blizzard's lore she is definetely alive and active.

But the how would have other night elves become naga without her arcane prowess and not drown? Of course, unless the naughty Old Gods theories... But going by the naga theory, might as well have new characters.

I know you dislike Old Gods, but technically it wa N'zoth who created the Naga

 

[deepstrasz]

Or perhaps, the Blood Elves are somehow blocking them?

That would work if say, the Wretched also carried some contagious disease. There has to be a good reason why the Blood Elves won't try to help them and we don't hear about it. All we hear is that the Wretched exist and the way they've come to be.

Perhaps they are truly too far gone and if they were given some other source of magic to feed on, maybe the only thing that would happen is that they would swap one addiction for another and just follow to feed their hunger?

Yes.

Are you sure? It's been a while since he became the Lich King. As you said, there might still be some part of Ner'zhul/Arthas left in the helm, so while Bolvar was definetely not "evil" when he took the throne, he might have been corrupted.

Didn't you just say he helped with Death Knights and minions?

However, I think that with what happened in TBC (i.e. Kael putting his thirst for power over his people), it's not that reasonable to asssume that he wouldn't care enough to work with Kel'Thuzad.

If he still has that addiction after coming back

I'm not saying that they would become friends or something, but an alliance of convenience is definetely a possibility in my book.

Yeah, and it would be neat to have a backup plan for each of them, in that Kel' plans to at one point to dispose of Kael while Kael plans the opposite.

Also, perhaps Kel'Thuzad is strong enough to resurrect Kael'thas, but being cut off from the Frozen Throne makes him unable to sustain control over him?

Nah... if he would indeed require the Lich King for sustenance, then he would not be able to do much let alone resurrect a powerful mage and he would realize that before jumping on such an act. But, why should he necessarily be bound to the Lich King? Death Knights as Teron Gorefiend were free of any influence after Gul'dan's death.

I know you dislike Old Gods

Grrr....

 

[MasterBlaster]

There has to be a good reason why the Blood Elves won't try to help them and we don't hear about it. All we hear is that the Wretched exist and the way they've come to be.

That's how I remember it too. Sadly, Blizzard doesn't seem interested in exploring this plot.

Didn't you just say he helped with Death Knights and minions?

He helped against the Legion, but whether he did it because he genuinely wanted to help us or whether he was just like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", we have no idea.

Yeah, and it would be neat to have a backup plan for each of them, in that Kel' plans to at one point to dispose of Kael while Kael plans the opposite.

That's exactly what I'd like to see out of Kael and Kel working together

Nah... if he would indeed require the Lich King for sustenance, then he would not be able to do much let alone resurrect a powerful mage and he would realize that before jumping on such an act.

Sylvanas' Val'kyr are able to resurrect dead, but have not been said to be able to mind control them, though.

But, why should he necessarily be bound to the Lich King? Death Knights as Teron Gorefiend were free of any influence after Gul'dan's death.

Personally, I wouldn't even touch the Lich King if Kael+Kel were to be thing. Sometimes it's just better to focus on a smaller cast of characters and develop them properly than introduce too many characters and connections without building them up properly.

Adding a character like the LK into the mix would take much of the spotlight from Kts, which I think would be a shame since both of them have a lot of potential for leading roles.

P.S. And suddenly Zenonoth's thread turned into a discussion about Warcraft lore

 

[deepstrasz]

Sylvanas' Val'kyr are able to resurrect dead, but have not been said to be able to mind control them, though.

That's totally different. That's why the Forsaken are different type of faction where hive mind control isn't necessary. Also, where would Kel'Thuzad get Val'kyr from? He wouldn't be able to escape Bolvar's control unless something happens to him like with Sylvanas' escape.

Sometimes it's just better to focus on a smaller cast of characters and develop them properly than introduce too many characters and connection without building them up properly.

I agree. However, that should not happen without proper explanation.

But, hey, what if Sylvanas revives Kael with the Val'kyr, assuming she still has some? Silly, I know, there wouldn't be a good reason to.

EDIT: we'll have to make Kael come back and then use the Val'kyr to create his army . Nah...
Somebody sets Kel' free from the phylactery, then he raises Kael who goes to the Forsaken and convinces Sylvanas to conquer the Frozen Throne and get more Val'kyr and then betrays her. Realizing that Kel'thuzad is behind it all, manages to get him and thus Kael is set free to do his madness . Naah...

EDIT 2:
Dark Elves? Hmm... the Nathrezim, their blood could turn the Wretched (and not only) into vampires thus replacing their addiction with a new one. The remaining Nathrezim devise this plan along with trying to get a hold on the Frozen Throne yet again to put their hands on the Scourge once more. Thus, we could have Kael'thas and Kel'Thuzad in the same team. This is being done along with remaining demon and naga forces. Then the Forsaken is being defeated and assimilated thus leaving Lordaeron and Azeroth vulnerable to massive undead attacks. Next stop, Kalimdor.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Also, where would Kel'Thuzad get Val'kyr from? He wouldn't be able to escape Bolvar's control unless something happens to him like with Sylvanas' escape.

Halls of Valor, the home of uncorrupted Val'kyr
Also, when Arthas was killed, there was a brief period without the Lich King's control, so I imagine he was freed then and if Sylvanas could resist getting back under LKs sway, so could Kel'thuzad.

But, hey, what if Sylvanas revives Kael with the Val'kyr, assuming she still has some?

And then they fall in love and live... well, are dead happily ever after

onvinces Sylvanas

How would he convince her to not kill him on sight, though?

to conquer the Frozen Throne and get more Val'kyr and then betrays her. Realizing that Kel'thuzad is behind it all, manages to get him and thus Kael is set free to do his madness . Naah...

the Nathrezim, their blood could turn the Wretched (and not only) into vampires

Zombie vampire elves I like

But seriously, Nathrezim also got pretty rekt'd in Legion, so I don't think they are in the position to do anything meaningul any time soon

 

[deepstrasz]

Halls of Valor, the home of uncorrupted Val'kyr

Well, wouldn't it be a bit problematic reaching the place? It's a bit unearthly, isn't it.

Also, when Arthas was killed, there was a brief period without the Lich King's control, so I imagine he was freed then and if Sylvanas could resist getting back under LKs sway, so could Kel'thuzad.

But wasn't Kel'Thuzad in the amulet during that time? Which means someone has to revive him first and if the phylactery is linked to the Helm, well, I don't know. It could have worked if Kel'Thuzad wasn't in the amulet weakened to be able to resist control.

How would he convince her to not kill him on sight, though?

Elven heritage, stuff like that, seduction (promises stuff), tells her the awful story of the Wretched and how he wants to save them.

But seriously, Nathrezim also got pretty rekt'd in Legion, so I don't think they are in the position to do anything meaningul any time soon

Not sure about Mephistroth though, he wasn't seen killed. He usually stayed in the Nether Citadel and did things from there through others.
I wasn't technically referring to zombies. Zombie in the sense that they are under the Nathrezim control, more like under the blood thirst but not that they are mindless.

 

[LISBOAH]

Also, when Arthas was killed, there was a brief period without the Lich King's control, so I imagine he was freed then and if Sylvanas could resist getting back under LKs sway, so could Kel'thuzad.

Unlike Sylvanas, Kel'Thuzad is loyal to the Lich King. This is shown when he stayed loyal even after the Lich King lost control over most of the undead and saved Arthas, rather than switching his allegiance to the dreadlords or Sylvanas. I think he would stay loyal to Bolvar.

But wasn't Kel'Thuzad in the amulet during that time? Which means someone has to revive him first and if the phylactery is linked to the Helm, well, I don't know. It could have worked if Kel'Thuzad wasn't in the amulet weakened to be able to resist control.

I think Kel'Thuzad can revive himself without the aid of others, as long his phylactery remains...

 

[deepstrasz]

I think he would stay loyal to Bolvar.

Ner'zhul=/=Bolvar. It was not the latter who helped turn him into a lich.

I think Kel'Thuzad can revive himself without the aid of others, as long his phylactery remains...

That would suck. Anyways, he'd be even weaker afterwards if he'd do it by himself.

 

[LISBOAH]

Ner'zhul=/=Bolvar. It was not the latter who helped turn him into a lich.

Maybe. But I have the feeling that Kel'Thuzad will remain loyal to the Lich King, regardless who has the crown on his head...

Besides, in "Road to Damnation" the Lich King told him that if he betrayed him, he would kill and raise him as a mindless undead and I believe Bolvar has those memories now...

That would suck. Anyways, he'd be even weaker afterwards if he'd do it by himself.

Most likely yes, he will be weaker after regaining his corporeal form, but that would only be temporary. After all, he returned in Wrath of the Lich King...

 

[deepstrasz]

Besides, in "Road to Damnation" the Lich King told him that if he betrayed him, he would kill and raise him as a mindless undead and I believe Bolvar has those memories now...

That kind of means that Kel'Thuzad wasn't under his full grasp. Which means Bolvar would have to physically (as in get the phylactery) or magically (as in having his minions get him close enough for the necromind to subjugate him) bind 'Thuzad to his will.

After all, he returned in Wrath of the Lich King...

Yes, but he had friends to help him with that. Now, he'd most likely be alone.

 

[LISBOAH]

That kind of means that Kel'Thuzad wasn't under his full grasp. Which means Bolvar would have to physically (as in get the phylactery) or magically (as in having his minions get him close enough for the necromind to subjugate him) bind 'Thuzad to his will.

Ner'zhul told him that when Kel'Thuzad was still alive. As a lich, the Lich King might have some control over him...

Yes, but he had friends to help him with that. Now, he'd most likely be alone.

The Scourge is still active, the only difference from before is that they are contained in Northrend. Bolvar even says that his undead will kill any who trespass Icecrown and raise them as Scourge. Like Lyandra Sunstrider...

Plus, we don't know what happened to Lady Deathwhisper and other Scourge commanders after they were defeated.

 

[deepstrasz]

The Scourge is still active, the only difference from before is that they are contained in Northrend. Bolvar even says that his undead will kill any who trespass Icecrown and raise them as Scourge. Like Lyandra Sunstrider...

So, he only controls part of it as it still has a "will" of its own. Another argument for Kel'Thuzad to not be too much affected by Bolvar.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Well, I think Kel'thuzad might view Bolvar as an usurper to the true Lich King (Ner'zhul/Arthas), so I have doubts whether Kel would want to stay loyal

 

[LISBOAH]

Well, I think Kel'thuzad might view Bolvar as an usurper to the true Lich King (Ner'zhul/Arthas), so I have doubts whether Kel would want to stay loyal

Technically Arthas also usurped Ner'zhul. Ner'zhul wanted to unite, but Arthas decided to be the only Lich King.

I think Kel'Thuzad is loyal to the Scourge as an organization, so he will obey the new Lich King.

So, he only controls part of it as it still has a "will" of its own. Another argument for Kel'Thuzad to not be too much affected by Bolvar.

Bolvar can control the Scourge in Northrend, while the Scourge in Lordaeron fell under the cultists' control.
Since Kel'Thuzad was in Northrend, I think he is under Bolvar's range.

 

[deepstrasz]

Technically Arthas also usurped Ner'zhul. Ner'zhul wanted to unite, but Arthas decided to be the only Lich King.

Did Ner'zhul disappear at all? Maybe, it's why actually Arthas was so evil or was that just his character?

 

[MasterBlaster]

But Kel worked with Arthas before and Ner'zhul was just subdued inside "their head", so it might have been easier to accept. Meanwhile, Bolvar was just some random human who came in and grabbed the crown after Arthas was slain. I'd say that there's a difference.

Did Ner'zhul disappear at all?

He didn't disappear. What happened was that Ner'zhul wanted to take full control of Arthas and use his body as a vessel, but instead the two clashed and it was Arthas who came out on top and subdued Ner'zhul