Wind walk and critical strike damage scale with agi? +Bladestorm bug

[HolyWillRise]

Is it possible to make every critical hit to deal x Agi damage?
And is it possible to make the damage dealth while in wind walk to scale with agi too?

Also how to change the vision effect of bladestorm? I changed it but it works only for 1 sec and then theres no vision effect.

 

[Ghan_04]

Critical strike on the Blademaster already scales with agility since that impacts the base damage of the unit. How exactly do you want that relationship to work?

Wind Walk would probably be tough. The ability itself only has a flat damage amount for the backstab action. You'd likely need to trigger that, maybe by checking for cooldown time on the ability when the hero does damage or similar.

 

[Cespie]

Is it possible to make every critical hit to deal x Agi damage?

It might be, but that would make the effect of agility compounding, so it would snowball out of control like crazy, very fast. I recommend just sticking with the fact that agility already gives base damage, which scales with critical strike. It's possibly the single best auto-scaling non-custom ability in the entire game, so I see no reason to fix it.

And is it possible to make the damage dealth while in wind walk to scale with agi too?

Yes, the new editor patch should even make it possible to assign the new damage bonus directly into the ability itself, but I don't know if that feature actually made it into the patch. For 1.30, it's quite tricky, as the cooldown is triggered after the cast. The best solution I can think of, is enabling a trigger that causes damage the next time the hero does damage after casting Wind Walk, and then disable the trigger after attacking or getting out of Wind Walk. It's tricky, but could be done that way.

Also how to change the vision effect of bladestorm? I changed it but it works only for 1 sec and then theres no vision effect.

What do you mean by vision effect? Do you mean the animation of the ability? You've likely used an animation that doesn't loop, meaning that it disappears after finishing it's animation once.

 

[HolyWillRise]

It might be, but that would make the effect of agility compounding, so it would snowball out of control like crazy, very fast. I recommend just sticking with the fact that agility already gives base damage, which scales with critical strike. It's possibly the single best auto-scaling non-custom ability in the entire game, so I see no reason to fix it.


Yes, the new editor patch should even make it possible to assign the new damage bonus directly into the ability itself, but I don't know if that feature actually made it into the patch. For 1.30, it's quite tricky, as the cooldown is triggered after the cast. The best solution I can think of, is enabling a trigger that causes damage the next time the hero does damage after casting Wind Walk, and then disable the trigger after attacking or getting out of Wind Walk. It's tricky, but could be done that way.


What do you mean by vision effect? Do you mean the animation of the ability? You've likely used an animation that doesn't loop, meaning that it disappears after finishing it's animation once.

Can you show me the trigger for wind walk x agi? If its not too long or hard for you of course, and about the bladestorm, yes, i talk about the animation (its like tornado) i wanna use custom but it works for 1 sec, the abillity is still active but the animation is just for 1 sec.

 

[Cespie]

Can you show me the trigger for wind walk x agi? If its not too long or hard for you of course, and about the bladestorm, yes, i talk about the animation (its like tornado) i wanna use custom but it works for 1 sec, the abillity is still active but the animation is just for 1 sec.

The Bladestorm thing probably has to be triggered, as the Object Editor just runs the animation once.
I don't have World Editor on me right now, but I could probably work out an example for you in a few hours.

 

[HolyWillRise]

The Bladestorm thing probably has to be triggered, as the Object Editor just runs the animation once.
I don't have World Editor on me right now, but I could probably work out an example for you in a few hours.

Thank you buddy, Will wait no problem ^^

 

[Tasyen]

Yes, the new editor patch should even make it possible to assign the new damage bonus directly into the ability itself, but I don't know if that feature actually made it into the patch.

The feature to change ability, unit data during game made it into 1.31. But it might be quite confusing to use in non english editor, cause most of the strings have no localization, making you endup with having to choose from a list of options that look like that:

WESTRING_ABILITYILF_ALLOWEDUNITTYPEBTL1
WESTRING_ABILITYILF_ALTERNATEFORMUNITEMEU
WESTRING_ABILITYILF_SUMMONEDUNITUIN4

 

[Cespie]

The feature to change ability, unit data during game made it into 1.31. But it might be quite confusing to use in non english editor, cause most of the strings have no localization, making you endup with having to choose from a list of options that look like that:

WESTRING_ABILITYILF_ALLOWEDUNITTYPEBTL1
WESTRING_ABILITYILF_ALTERNATEFORMUNITEMEU
WESTRING_ABILITYILF_SUMMONEDUNITUIN4

Thanks for the input! I wouldn't personally want to install it right now though, with the corruption issues still in effect, but this will certainly be nice once it's stable.

 

[Cespie]

Thank you buddy, Will wait no problem ^^

Seeing how the Wind Walk thing is going to be 100 times easier once 1.31 is stable, I chose to focus on making you a Bladestorm skill instead.

What this skill does, is spawn 4 tornadoes which orbits around the target.
My guess is that you need this thing because you are making a Bladestorm based skill on a unit that doesn't have a Bladestorm animation, so I designed this thing to look like a substitute.
The test map shows what the skill looks like on both a Blademaster and a Non-Blademaster. It is fully MUI, GUI, and Leak-free (as far as I know).

 

[HolyWillRise]

Seeing how the Wind Walk thing is going to be 100 times easier once 1.31 is stable, I chose to focus on making you a Bladestorm skill instead.

What this skill does, is spawn 4 tornadoes which orbits around the target.
My guess is that you need this thing because you are making a Bladestorm based skill on a unit that doesn't have a Bladestorm animation, so I designed this thing to look like a substitute.
The test map shows what the skill looks like on both a Blademaster and a Non-Blademaster. It is fully MUI, GUI, and Leak-free (as far as I know).

Thanks, btw this is the model that i wanted to use BladeStorm

 

[Tasyen]

For the windwalk on 1.31. You can use the new ability feature: It would kinda look like that. Important part is that the ability data is offseted by -1 Level. Data for Level 1 is in 0.

• Windwalk with agi
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to Windwalk
  • Actions
    • Set Level = (Level of (Ability being cast) for (Triggering unit))
    • Set Damage = (10.00 + (30.00 x (Real(Level))))
    • Set Damage = (Damage + (3.00 x (Real((Agility of (Triggering unit) (Include bonuses))))))
    • WESTRING_TRIGCAT_ABILITY - Set Ability: (Unit: (Triggering unit)'s Ability with Ability Code: (Ability being cast))'s Real Level Field: WESTRING_ABILITYRLF_BACKSTABDAMAGE of Level: (Level - 1) to Damage

Edit:
Currently its difficult to find the right fields, i mean how one would know its "WESTRING_ABILITYRLF_BACKSTABDAMAGE". Ok self explaining in this case but look how many of them are called damage. In such a case one has to look at the last 4 chars. They tell which field is meant. The names of fields can now be seen in object Editor when on switches to raw data view. Still its kinda confusing and so overbloaded with text right now.

 

[Cespie]

Thanks, btw this is the model that i wanted to use BladeStorm

I mean... you COULD have clarified that before I spent all this time making an orbit animation. Oh well, now I have that in my arsenal.
If you want to attach the special effect to the target itself, it's WAY easier than this Bladestorm trigger, however, this will not disable the Blademaster's Bladestorm animation, that's part of the model, not a special effect. To change that you'd have to change the model itself. At first glance though, it looks like this effect would compliment the spell itself, so I might just do that... later. The basic gist though, is attaching the animation to the unit, then removing it once the spell ends.

 

[Cespie]

For the windwalk on 1.31. You can use the new ability feature: It would kinda look like that. Important part is that the ability data is offseted by -1 Level. Data for Level 1 is in 0.

Lol, how is this not fixed? In the object editor, the raw data values are given an ID handle that is 1-indexed rather than 0-indexed. Oh well, minor issue.

Also, do you happen to know if the description updates if a data field that it references is modified? In this case, does the backstab damage get updated in the description automatically?

 

[Cespie]

• Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability

Also, I'm just thinking here, wouldn't it be a better idea in general to use (Begins casting a spell) for data updates? Starting effect is used in trigger spells because it prevents exploiting cancelling it, but you can't really exploit a data change. On the flipside, data effects may not actually apply to the ability at that point. I don't know with Windwalk, since the damage event happens on a separate point, but for other spells like Chain Lightning, I wonder if the damage will actually be applied if it's changed on the effect.
In general, it may be an idea to simply do a periodical updater, since there's so many factors to track. In an RPG map (which is where this would be used) you could simply index the player heroes and loop through their spells.

 

[Wrda]

Also, I'm just thinking here, wouldn't it be a better idea in general to use (Begins casting a spell) for data updates? Starting effect is used in trigger spells because it prevents exploiting cancelling it, but you can't really exploit a data change.

Wrong, (Begins casting the spell) is the one you should NEVER ever use because of the exploit. (Starts the effect) is 100% bug-free, this has been said and proved for quite a long time.

 

[Cespie]

Wrong, (Begins casting the spell) is the one you should NEVER ever use because of the exploit. (Starts the effect) is 100% bug-free, this has been said and proved for quite a long time.

For someone who wrote to someone about not thinking outside the box a moment ago, you sure as hell seem to be stuck in a box here.
A data update action can't be exploited on a begin cast event. The context in which that is discouraged, is when the effect triggers an event associated with depleting the cooldown of the ability, such as dealing damage to the target, in which case, you could exploit it by interrupting the cast and still deal damage without actually having cast the spell. If you were to interrupt a stat write, you gain absolutely nothing.

The reason that what you're saying has been "proven for quite a long time" is probably that there was no real reason to ever want to run something at the beginning of a spellcast until just now. At least not anything that I could think of.

Edit: Oh wait, I just recalled. Ever since the Editor made it possible to set the cooldown of spells, it's actually been useful for creating spells that cast instantly, ignoring cast animations, as you can trigger the cooldown manually. I used this myself for a "Shadowstep"-like spell that I wanted to work instantly instead of working at the effect start. Again, just because this event used to be a useless and exploitable alternative to effect start, that doesn't mean that it still is. Its use is far more limited, but it has uses still.

 

[Wrda]

A data update action can't be exploited on a begin cast event. The context in which that is discouraged, is when the effect triggers an event associated with depleting the cooldown of the ability, such as dealing damage to the target, in which case, you could exploit it by interrupting the cast and still deal damage without actually having cast the spell. If you were to interrupt a stat write, you gain absolutely nothing.

3 words: Yes it does. You gain a bonus.

The reason that what you're saying has been "proven for quite a long time" is probably that there was no real reason to ever want to run something at the beginning of a spellcast until just now. At least not anything that I could think of.

It doesn't fire at the beginning of the cast, it fires right before it. Just like (A unit is attacked).
It just sucks.

Edit: Oh wait, I just recalled. Ever since the Editor made it possible to set the cooldown of spells, it's actually been useful for creating spells that cast instantly, ignoring cast animations, as you can trigger the cooldown manually. I used this myself for a "Shadowstep"-like spell that I wanted to work instantly instead of working at the effect start. Again, just because this event used to be a useless and exploitable alternative to effect start, that doesn't mean that it still is. Its use is far more limited, but it has uses still.

I don't know what you mean by this, but making spells cast instantly was always possible with a dummy unit and the cast backswing and cast point to 0 along with the real spell cooldown to 0. It doesn't really ignore casting animations, they still perform (only the last one of course). Again (Starts the effect of an ability) can easily do the same as (Begins casting an ability) with the modified values above. The use for the later is indeed on extreme rare cases when you don't need cooldown, mana and damage directly on the ability.

Somehow they screwed the instantly multiple target spells with dummies, it won't work in this patch anymore lol...

 

[Tasyen]

Also, do you happen to know if the description updates if a data field that it references is modified? In this case, does the backstab damage get updated in the description automatically?

The tooltip text will not update. when one changes data, even if the field reading is used <AHtc,DataA1>.
But windwalk will show the updated amount of backstap damage when attacking.

 

[Cespie]

3 words: Yes it does. You gain a bonus.

No you don't, you write data to the spell which isn't used until the spell actually goes off. The data write isn't "adding a bonus", it's changing a value to the result of an equation. No matter how many times you calculate it, the answer to 2+2 is always 4, and no matter how many times you change the values of a spell, it will not benefit you unless you actually use it. Begin cast triggers can only be abused when you place an action of self-contained value within the event trigger. Changing the data field of a spell is not self-contained value, it's a complimentary value. If you had a trigger that gave you 1 gold every time you cast a spell, having the event being "begins casting" would be exploitable, and thus, it'd be a very bad idea to use that event, but this simply isn't the case for a non-incremental variable assignation.

It doesn't fire at the beginning of the cast, it fires right before it. Just like (A unit is attacked).
It just sucks.

That IS the beginning of a cast, if you think about the casting process from start to finish, and not just the moment the spell effect goes off (that's how it's different from the other event to begin with). It's not like this event was included as an inferior alternative by mistake, it has it's own use which differs wildly from the effect event.
Also, we seriously need an (a unit is hit by an attack) event to match this one...

I don't know what you mean by this, but making spells cast instantly was always possible with a dummy unit and the cast backswing and cast point to 0 along with the real spell cooldown to 0.

And summoning a customized dummy unit to cast a spell and cleaning up all the odd mechanics, potential bugs, and terrain glitches, stemming from that as well as the memory leaks you need to clean is totally a more simple and straightforward approach than simply using a different event and a simple action. Come on man, you're grasping at straws here, you even go on to say:

It doesn't really ignore casting animations

Which means you admit that this far more complex and time consuming approach produces an inferior result. I mean, just why? Both methods have different applications, but in this particular case, going with the begins casting event is definitely a better choice in just about every conceivable aspect. I'm also not sure how a dummy cast would go off instantly without begins casting in the first place. What exactly is the event? Effect will never be instant unless you set the backswing and cast point to 0 on the main unit, and that would apply to all spells, not just 1. Far less controlled.

Somehow they screwed the instantly multiple target spells with dummies, it won't work in this patch anymore lol...

Yeah, I am officially avoiding this patch until Blizzard sorts it out.

 

[Cespie]

The tooltip text will not update. when one changes data, even if the field reading is used <AHtc,DataA1>.
But windwalk will show the updated amount of backstap damage when attacking.

Yeah, that last one is pretty obvious, but I am a bit sad that the text doesn't auto-refresh. Oh well, guess we have to manually refresh it.