What's the point of giving credit

[Lordkoon]

I'v noticed something from quite a while. Many maps get released with credits that go like this :

credits:

name,name,name,name,name

when they in my opinion shoud go like this :

credits:

resourse - author, resourse - author, -....

What is the point of giving credits if people don't mention which model,skin etc. is made by the author mentioned above. It is a simple way of giving correct information that is actually viable to us map-makers. It just requires a single notepad and a few letters after every import.

And even though this rule is considered mandatory there are maps released that dont contain credits at all but get approved anyway. (for a recent example - Dualism, great map btw.)

 

[Skycraft]

because on the internet people will find the most annoying ways to show that something classifies as said subject without having to put as much effort into it as we would like

if they give credit like that most people will probably ignore it, if they don't give credit they'll be hounded about it so really they want to 'save time' to work on the map because they are lazy bastards

 

[SA Dashie]

In most of my maps(if not all) I actually do credits for each import by the name of the creator. It does kinda puzzle me why this is done like this, as it doesn't realy seem worth the effort if not done properly.

 

[Lordkoon]

Many great maps which models,sounds,etc. intrigue me but when I find out that credits were given by such useless way then I start browsing and searching every god damn author to find the model I seek.

 

[Skycraft]

i know how you feel man! it's truly a pain seeing the owner of a resource but not knowing what they did to contribute specifically to the map
just seems like a waste of space

the map moderation crew should look at telling users that if they want their map approved they need to be a bit more specific with their credits because not only is it more helpful but it seems like there's more in the map when you scroll through the credits tab
it's a win win for everybody when users decide to be less lazy

 

[Lordkoon]

Well there can always pop a new rule about credits to actually make the future map releases less like those before them. Also if the resourse is not included with its author next to it, does a moderator check if there are actually any of the things written in the credits true.

 

[sonofjay]

Nah just a waste of time, admit it, you got 1000+ imports, you'll not bother giving the right credit, you'll just put the name of the author then done and first of all, giving credit is simply giving gratitude for the resources they made. If they see their resources in a map, they will not shout it to everyone, they'll just be glad that someone used their resources.

 

[Lordkoon]

Yes I will. I for once respect the work of others and would like to share it to players who find some resourses in a map interesting and needed for their own projects. It takes less than halph a minute to write down the name of the resourse and the author. If I wanted to admit it is a waste of time I wouldnt be making the topic stating the opposite.

 

[Ralle]

I believe credit exists because you want to give something back to the author of the resource or they demand it. There's not really a way to put your signature on a model or skin without ruining it, so they deserve some kind of acknowledgement. I agree name, name, name is not very descriptive. If I were using many resources, I would probably dedicate a Quest page to a detailed name - resource list while displaying a message of resource contributors on game initialization.

 

[rulerofiron99]

It's definitely a lot of work. Sometimes I go on downloading and importing sprees without giving the authors a second thought, and then when I need to compile the credits list, it becomes a mission to find all these resources in the database. But it must be done.

+1 to more strict enforcement of rules, the MAXIMUM few minutes you have to spend finding and listing the correct details is nothing compared with the hours that have been spent making these resources.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Credits are always good. It's the format which people give them that sucks. Than again there is no actual rule regarding the format. People could always at least give proper credits but in the end, this is just modding, it's something done in a casual manner, there are no money involved most of the time.

 

[Rui]

Well, in the way you referred, you can at least trace things to the authors, but I agree that linking each resource to its respective author is a better way to do it.

Regardless of how bad people around you do it, no matter if it's on WC3 or elsewhere, you should always give credits. When someone is kind enough to spend their time and effort working for you, and is generous enough that you get to profit from the results of that exertion, the least you can do is give them some positive recognition. They ask for nothing more.

 

[Lordkoon]

It's even easier when authors include a notepad info file in their .rar archives of resourses they submit. Later you just have to gather the notepads, open them and copy/paste for a few minutes.

 

[rulerofiron99]

It's even easier when authors include a notepad info file in their .rar archives of resourses they submit. Later you just have to gather the notepads, open them and copy/paste for a few minutes.

True, but that's only in half of the models that I use :/

 

[infrenus]

Still, itsl always good to give credits to the authors. I myself that never released any map do that on my personnal tests (if one gets interesting, I could always refine and upload no?) and sometimes the list is pretty big.

 

[Misha]

Nah just a waste of time, admit it, you got 1000+ imports, you'll not bother giving the right credit, you'll just put the name of the author then done and first of all, giving credit is simply giving gratitude for the resources they made. If they see their resources in a map, they will not shout it to everyone, they'll just be glad that someone used their resources.

I believe credit exists because you want to give something back to the author of the resource or they demand it. There's not really a way to put your signature on a model or skin without ruining it, so they deserve some kind of acknowledgement. I agree name, name, name is not very descriptive. If I were using many resources, I would probably dedicate a Quest page to a detailed name - resource list while displaying a message of resource contributors on game initialization.

overruled by the chieftain, i guess... besides, i like to brag to my pals that i made this or that.
those were my two cents

 

[Ralle]

I have been thinking about this. It should be very possible to cross reference files in a map with resources in the sections. This should be able to auto generate the list of credits and also show you which maps used your resource.

 

[Kwaliti]

Something like that would be amazing. I, for one, would really like to see all the maps where my stuff is used.

 

[Lordkoon]

I have been thinking about this. It should be very possible to cross reference files in a map with resources in the sections. This should be able to auto generate the list of credits and also show you which maps used your resource.

But I guess resourses from other websites will have to be written down too.

 

[Ralle]

Indeed, but that is not something I will be able to help with.

 

[Dr Super Good]

With a proper map editor and resource provider system credits could be generated automaticly. You add resources to a map like plugins.

This allows for two types of credits.
1. Generic - a simple list of names.
2. Dependiency - links to the resources used.

One should not really have to credit an author in name if you provide a certified link to his resources as that itself automaticly credits him. Generic credits would make sure that he gets mentioned for work related to the map.

 

[Lordkoon]

Perhaps a database with a 'seach' feature that allows people to imput the exact or part of the .mdx name and shows the name of the author. That way even if people don't make a proper list of credits at start, they can do so later just be imputing the .mdx files by their names and will easily see which model was done by which author.

 

[edo494]

i sont know if its possible but simple extracting imports from the maps and then some autosearch on thw and then autolist it at the end of the map would be cool IMO

 

[APproject]

Subjective Opinion:

From my point of view, telling just a name is fully enough. Here is the example why:

Let's say I am new. I download a map, I play it and I see a bunch of text with names referring to some resources like knight, tree, sword attachment, right? What do these names mean to me? Nothing. Do you read names carefully from start to end when you play it? I doubt it. Practically a name mean nothing. That's how it rolls in reality I think.

Now let's say I am not new. I download a map. I play it. I see a bunch of text referring to separate resources. Do I read the names? Do you read all names? I don't and I think you don't too.

What is different from being new and experienced? When you are new, a name and a resource do not link to you at all in my opinion. When you are experienced, you will recognise a resource used in the map as a work of certain person you actually have seen or had business with, don't you think? If you know the resource, if you know already who was the author and you know him at least from reading his posts, it gains a meaning.

Just a bunch of endless text do not give any meaning in my opinion. It is knowing the author and his work and recognising certain resource in the map itself like, *Oh, hey, look at the Naga model, I know who made that, haha* that gives meaning.

Making this even more complex would lead only to a time waste in my opinion. It is a resource itself that is worth attention, not a name with a link to a resource. Afterall, people who make resources should be happy that people use it. I would. And I would require only a name, not colored, brightened name with a link at a resource if it was made not by request or such in Quest Log, download link thread and in the end of the map, because I would care only for people I know, and people who know me, would recognise my resource, to people who don't know me, here is me just for example, my name would mean absolutely nothing.

What do you think, guys?

 

[HappyTauren]

The problem with this is that basically everyone edits a thing or two on a resource (mostly) before importing, so cross referencing isn't too possible.

 

[Ralle]

Unless the mdx is decompiled to mdx and you compare the amount of vertexes and other data, that are equal. This is far-fetched and honestly quite complicated, but it should be possibly. I would of course go the easy way and just compare equal resources.

Edit: Oh yeah and Dr Super Good's idea is as usual how the ideal solution would be. Good idea.

 

[Garfield1337]

Subjective Opinion:

From my point of view, telling just a name is fully enough. Here is the example why:
...

What do you think, guys?

I wouldn't agree. I've often found myself interested in who made a specific model. For that, credits need to say who has made what. If well organized, finding the creator shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

Think how cool it would be if in WC4 all of this was default?
Anyways i think this is mostly all about starting a trend, i believe the map makers would also appreciate having a more complete list=more complete map

 

[sonofjay]

overruled by the chieftain, i guess... besides, i like to brag to my pals that i made this or that.
those were my two cents

Nope this guys are trying to acknowledge the users of this community, I'm talking on a bigger scale, since they're stuck to "lets use this resources from hive", you can see it if you read all their suggestions.

 

[Magtheridon96]

It's actually quite easy if you do the naive approach of comparing files byte by byte.

Actually, I have a better, more efficient way of doing this.

Each time a model is uploaded, you take the first 64 or 128 or 256 or whatever number of bytes in the data (not the file header, just skip to the data), and generate some sort of hash code.

This will help you decrease the number of resources you need to compare.

When a user uploads a map, iterate over the mdx/mdl files in the MPQ. (.w3x files are MPQ files)
You would find the hash code for each mdx/mdl/blp file. If the hash code retrieved is registered in the
database (use a binary search tree sorting numbers in base62), then get an array of all resources with
this hash code, and start iterating over all their bytes to see if they are equal.


This should reduce the overhead by a /ton/.

 

[APproject]

I wouldn't agree. I've often found myself interested in who made a specific model. For that, credits need to say who has made what. If well organized, finding the creator shouldn't be a problem.

Do foreign and unknown names interest you? And if you already know the people, you may recognise it from a game itself and you wouldn't really need that big bunch of text.

Here is my latest project's current and yet INCOMPLETE credit list. Imagine if all resources equal to nearly 20 MB would be linked to names. Would you like to go through this amount of text carefully analyzing each line?

Current incomplete credit list

The Hiveworkshop

Models

HappyCockroach
sPy
Sin'dorei300
Frankster
Callahan
Tranquil
Champara Bros
JetFangInferno
Sunchips
Usedwell
shamanyouranus
marcus158
NexusBlizzard
Haistrah
WILL THE ALMIGHTY
Booglesg
Nbah
Yayoi
eubz
Sellenisko
spong3bob
olofmoleman
HappyTauren
Buster
Forgotten_Warlord
inhuman89
GreyArchon
diosilva16
Just_Spectating
Tiki
donut3.5
Kuhneghetz
Dionesiist
republicola
Carrington2k
Chriz.
Herio-san
super_pole
Hellish Hybrid
Marcos DAB
11223344
-Grendel
Mecheon
Mc !
Domokun
Kehel
Sephiroth_VII
Callahan
Ket
Pinachet
Scythy Dervish
Fingolfin
Rondo
Bustr_Bladr
alfredx_sotn
chilla_killa
Tarrasque
Afronight_76
Gottfrei
Misha
Pyritie
eXciTe
PeeKay
RightField
EnetheruAnuon
tomv8
takakenji
Citatus Nim Totren
Pretor
Red XIII
Horn
RedFuser
Usedwell
epsilon
Mephestrial
Amigurumi
Power
Blizzard Entertainment
pWn3d
Infrisios

Skins

Hueter
67chrome
morbent
WerBackIII
Born?Modificate
L_Lawliet
Dionesiist
Stanakin
Juice_F
Kuhneghetz
Just_Spectating
Leopard
Saikann
Technomancer
erwtenpeller

Icons

Mr.Goblin
67chrome
Apheraz Lucent
JollyD
Anachron
Raging Ent
aki15
Darkfang
Marcos DAB
4eNNightmare
NFWar
L_Lawliet
PeeKay
-Berz-
Marenko
Apheraz Lucent
4eNNightmare
Anachron
Juan_Ann
-Grendel
CRAZYRUSSIAN
Static
GooS
Banzay89
bigapple90
Hellx-Magnus
Mr.Goblin
inhuman89
chilla_killa
GhostThruster
kola
Palaslayer
Cross
-Stygian-
Palaslayer
sPy
Leopard
SexYFrostWyrM

Warcraft3Campaigns

Models

Nasrudin
Celestea
oBs3rv3r
Daelin
Mc !
JetFangInferno
TDR
LotK
Szythe

Skins

THE_END
NiRVaNa_87
unwirklich
Dionesiist

Chaos Realm

Models

Judash
paradise.engineering
Alice
LuisZek
ddahe
Toma The Mad Cow

Skins

L_Lawliet
Horn

Lowpoly Workshop

Models

Judash

Bag System: xorkatoss
UI Interface: viiva
Knockback System: Paladon
Spell triggering assistance: defskull
Spell systems by defskull: Ra: Wave of Blasting Fire, Horus: Heaven Strike Level 3 additional effect, Ra: Pulse of Sun, Seth: Dark Hole; Tablet of Amun Effect
Certain text polishing: ndh
Voice acting: APproject (Atemu; Seth; Ebo; Thabit; Jumoke; Cheops; Abubakar), ndh (Onuris), NightElf125 (Narrator), Striker21 (Khepri), Pharaoh_ (Isis)
Seth's model request author: PROXY
Project's banner, signature and preview image author: AL0NE
Music: Loki: Heroes of Mythology; King Tut's Spirit Drum Song
Sounds: Loki: Heroes of Mythology; www.soundbible.com
Sound editing assistance: Tickles

 

[sonofjay]

^

That is how I also give credit, (on my on-going projects) And its almost as long as that. its pretty hard to redirect them all, some of them are not even here on hive, some are models given to me personally.

 

[Lordkoon]

Nope this guys are trying to acknowledge the users of this community, I'm talking on a bigger scale, since they're stuck to "lets use this resources from hive", you can see it if you read all their suggestions.

Nobody said that we are talking just about the hive resourses. The resourse-author pattern is for every resourse in the map, taken from hive,wcundergroung,xgm or some chiniese website. However the database people are currently discussing is about the hive's resourses and organizing their credits properly in a new way from the suggested above.

Do foreign and unknown names interest you? And if you already know the people, you may recognise it from a game itself and you wouldn't really need that big bunch of text.

Here is my latest project's current and yet INCOMPLETE credit list. Imagine if all resources equal to nearly 20 MB would be linked to names. Would you like to go through this amount of text carefully analyzing each line?

Current incomplete credit list

The Hiveworkshop

Models

HappyCockroach
sPy
Sin'dorei300
Frankster
Callahan
Tranquil
Champara Bros
JetFangInferno
Sunchips
Usedwell
shamanyouranus
marcus158
NexusBlizzard
Haistrah
WILL THE ALMIGHTY
Booglesg
Nbah
Yayoi
eubz
Sellenisko
spong3bob
olofmoleman
HappyTauren
Buster
Forgotten_Warlord
inhuman89
GreyArchon
diosilva16
Just_Spectating
Tiki
donut3.5
Kuhneghetz
Dionesiist
republicola
Carrington2k
Chriz.
Herio-san
super_pole
Hellish Hybrid
Marcos DAB
11223344
-Grendel
Mecheon
Mc !
Domokun
Kehel
Sephiroth_VII
Callahan
Ket
Pinachet
Scythy Dervish
Fingolfin
Rondo
Bustr_Bladr
alfredx_sotn
chilla_killa
Tarrasque
Afronight_76
Gottfrei
Misha
Pyritie
eXciTe
PeeKay
RightField
EnetheruAnuon
tomv8
takakenji
Citatus Nim Totren
Pretor
Red XIII
Horn
RedFuser
Usedwell
epsilon
Mephestrial
Amigurumi
Power
Blizzard Entertainment
pWn3d
Infrisios

Skins

Hueter
67chrome
morbent
WerBackIII
Born?Modificate
L_Lawliet
Dionesiist
Stanakin
Juice_F
Kuhneghetz
Just_Spectating
Leopard
Saikann
Technomancer
erwtenpeller

Icons

Mr.Goblin
67chrome
Apheraz Lucent
JollyD
Anachron
Raging Ent
aki15
Darkfang
Marcos DAB
4eNNightmare
NFWar
L_Lawliet
PeeKay
-Berz-
Marenko
Apheraz Lucent
4eNNightmare
Anachron
Juan_Ann
-Grendel
CRAZYRUSSIAN
Static
GooS
Banzay89
bigapple90
Hellx-Magnus
Mr.Goblin
inhuman89
chilla_killa
GhostThruster
kola
Palaslayer
Cross
-Stygian-
Palaslayer
sPy
Leopard
SexYFrostWyrM

Warcraft3Campaigns

Models

Nasrudin
Celestea
oBs3rv3r
Daelin
Mc !
JetFangInferno
TDR
LotK
Szythe

Skins

THE_END
NiRVaNa_87
unwirklich
Dionesiist

Chaos Realm

Models

Judash
paradise.engineering
Alice
LuisZek
ddahe
Toma The Mad Cow

Skins

L_Lawliet
Horn

Lowpoly Workshop

Models

Judash

Bag System: xorkatoss
UI Interface: viiva
Knockback System: Paladon
Spell triggering assistance: defskull
Spell systems by defskull: Ra: Wave of Blasting Fire, Horus: Heaven Strike Level 3 additional effect, Ra: Pulse of Sun, Seth: Dark Hole; Tablet of Amun Effect
Certain text polishing: ndh
Voice acting: APproject (Atemu; Seth; Ebo; Thabit; Jumoke; Cheops; Abubakar), ndh (Onuris), NightElf125 (Narrator), Striker21 (Khepri), Pharaoh_ (Isis)
Seth's model request author: PROXY
Project's banner, signature and preview image author: AL0NE
Music: Loki: Heroes of Mythology; King Tut's Spirit Drum Song
Sounds: Loki: Heroes of Mythology; www.soundbible.com
Sound editing assistance: Tickles

Imagine that you put the names of the resourses used next to the author's name and optionally put a link. Nobody will need to make a disection of all the links, just those which are appointed to the used resourse in which a user is interested.

 

[Sumonchy]

Nobody said that we are talking just about the hive resourses. The resourse-author pattern is for every resourse in the map, taken from hive,wcundergroung,xgm or some chiniese website. However the database people are currently discussing is about the hive's resourses and organizing their credits properly in a new way from the suggested above.

I agree with you. You are right, nobody talking about hive resources.

 

[Lordkoon]

Yes we talk about crediting in general, while Ralle and the others who can make 'stuff happen' are discussing a way to create a system here on the hive.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Imagine that you put the names of the resourses used next to the author's name and optionally put a link. Nobody will need to make a disection of all the links, just those which are appointed to the used resourse in which a user is interested.

I imagined it and it'd be quite frustrating. ;_; I get demotivated fast while modding and having to write the author's name everytime I get a new resource along with the resource's name would consume some of my time. Yes it may seem like a simple task, but it can build up to something very annoying and frustrating. The idea of the hive grabbing all this info would be a good idea.

 

[Vladadamm]

Here is my latest project's current and yet INCOMPLETE credit list. Imagine if all resources equal to nearly 20 MB would be linked to names. Would you like to go through this amount of text carefully analyzing each line?

Here is my current COMPLETE credit list (but in french) :
http://clanslid.board.fm/t862-Info-Credits.htm#p9014

It's really better to read (even if i have only a few ressources used atm), and you know where to search. And like this, also, you know who created what.

 

[HappyTauren]

Guys, I simply like seeing my name in the credits, no matter what

 

[Garfield1337]

Do foreign and unknown names interest you? And if you already know the people, you may recognise it from a game itself and you wouldn't really need that big bunch of text.

They do. If I see a great model in game, I would often want to see more models of the same creator or more maybe to use the model in my map.

Here is my latest project's current and yet INCOMPLETE credit list. Imagine if all resources equal to nearly 20 MB would be linked to names. Would you like to go through this amount of text carefully analyzing each line?

If the credit list is on Hive, I would use the Find function.

 

[HungryHusky]

What do you guys think about categorizing the credits into different sections? That is quite common in real video games.

Example:
Modelling & Animation
List of people

Texturing
List of people

AI & Enemy AI
List of people


In my opinion this is the best method, since it prevents lots of text and spam in big projects with alot of resources. And if people want to look deeper into specific resources it isn't that hard to contact the project creator or search by themselves for the credited user's resources.

 

[mckill2009]

IMO, it should be done this way;
Credits:
<Name of resource>, <Name of author>, <Where can it be found? (url link)>

Although Im not doing that format but Ima do it starting now...

 

[HungryHusky]

IMO, it should be done this way;
Credits:
<Name of resource>, <Name of author>, <Where can it be found? (url link)>

There is a problem with that. What is the resource does not go under the same name in the map as the resource itself? I mean just becuase I import lets say "Demon Knight" model, maybe I don't want to call it that but "Hell Warrior" instead.

And imagine of you have like 100+ people to credit and is using the credits in an intro, that would be a pretty long intro.
And links? Honestly it's not that hard to do some searching by yourself. And besides links would cause massive wall of texts and look like spam/messy.

 

[Kuhneghetz]

For me, I'm just happy that I'm mentioned in the credits list. The name of the resources I made is a nice bonus.

 

[APproject]

It is hard and time consuming to put only names on the list already if it takes a lot of imports, but if adding resource name and resource link, oh, that would be a lot of work. It is also sometimes hard to track what is already mentioned in the list, for example, you use an import in early beginning and another import of same author in the ending and it takes time and focus already to track the name if it was already mentioned in a big list.

It is unwanted and distracting to keep mind on map stuffs and suddently jump to links, resources names and credit list polishing, it distract from work.

I honestly still don't see a point of mentioning all this additional information due to reasons in my previous posts.

I think poll should be opened about it and let the majority decide if changes are needed, even though it would be resource authors vs users.

 

[HappyTauren]

There are two ways this can easily be dealt with. Either by adding name and resource name to a file just as you import stuff, or once the project is completely done. I will do the latter.

 

[EbonyStallion]

I lay my credits out as
Author : Resource, Resource, Resource
because usually for some types of resource, an author makes more than one.
I simply write it all down in a notepad as i go and it's extremely easy.

 

[sonofjay]

Its easy giving credits on models. And your map only have a few imports ebo, most users here got tremendous amount of imports but yeah laying names is quite easy since sometimes, 4-7 resources are made by one person but hell linking them all is crazy(le talking on maps total import)

 

[EbonyStallion]

Lol, my credits list for my map is Myself, Paradise, and Toma. Lol
I don't like using others stuff

 

[Magtheridon96]

Linking to the resources is really not needed for a map.
The author name and resources are enough.

 

[HappyTauren]

Maybe it is useful to link to a resource section, but linking each resource individually would be ridiculous.