What do people want in a campaign?

[Necziaxxus]

Hey Hive!,

I have strong intentions of creating a campaign. I've only begun to write things down in stone, so I haven't quite got around to making anything physical on the World Editor yet, but I'm designing units, missions, and I've completely developed the story.

I've got a few ideas of what to include in a campaign to make it fun and great:

- Like great terrain, the best I can do, per map. This would of course include imports and the maps would be designed from the bottom to the top with careful detail.

- Unique, original, and fun units and heroes. Triggered spells and abilities, and possibly a completely fleshed out new race or two.

- An amazing, compelling storyline that attaches you to the campaign. This is probably the part I am least worried about, since I have full faith in my ability and I want the story to be the primary feature of the campaign that makes it different to every other campaign.

- And missions designed to not be annoyingly small, nor impossibly huge. These missions would of course have fully functional and respectable cinematics.

But what else do people want in a campaign? And if I've covered it, what are some ideas expanding off those key ideas I have put forth?

Thanks,
Necziaxxus.

 

[LordDz]

Explosions, lots of explosions.
And custom races.

 

[Daffa]

Custom Sounds and Recording! Seriously, it's very difficult but very amazing to include.

 

[Necziaxxus]

Explosions, lots of explosions.
And custom races.

Explosions. Got it =]. And you don't have to worry about custom races. This campaign will be set in an entirely new world completely apart from the Warcraft one. You hopefully won't see many similarities.

Custom Sounds and Recording! Seriously, it's very difficult but very amazing to include.

Custom sounds and recording sounds (no pun intended) like a great idea! =] I'll have to find a way to get voice actors if I can't do it myself.

Thanks for the feedback guys, +rep to you both =]

 

[Tickles]

A strong storyline and character development is great and all, but mini-games are really important for keeping a campaign interesting due to the fact that campaigns can be very long and drawn out. You should include little things on the side like collecting artifacts that you get rewarded for when you collect them all, literal mini-games where you have to do a challenge that is completely different from the rest of the campaign's gameplay, or secret discoveries like a hidden rest area to heal up and buy special items you can't get anywhere else.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Hmm. Let's start with what people do not want.

Players don't want to be bored. What do people usually get bored of? Repetitiveness of things that aren't addicting.

People will not get addicted trying to get from point A to B by fighting the same unit over and over again, roaming around the map, breaking gates and such. People would rather play a mini-game to get through something. I'm not saying you should have standard Warcraft 3 gameplay, I'm saying that you should have a fair mix of different types of gameplay.

Did I see the word explosions? Well, not only do explosions capture a players attention, but basically visual effects that will make the player be in awe.

About the story telling, make sure to not only make the story be told through the beginning and the end of the *=submaps*. It makes it less follow able as it's separated into segments rather than being a part of the map. Hopefully that makes sense ^_^
Also, add some drama! We see the same stories over and over. "Evil rises, the good team has to stop them with generic obstacles blocking their victory." That premise isn't a bad thing, but there needs to be some unexpected twists. Maybe some humor. Maybe a cliff hanger or two.

I don't know for sure if you know about the things I've stated above, but this was more like a just in case post

 

[Necziaxxus]

A strong storyline and character development is great and all, but mini-games are really important for keeping a campaign interesting due to the fact that campaigns can be very long and drawn out. You should include little things on the side like collecting artifacts that you get rewarded for when you collect them all, literal mini-games where you have to do a challenge that is completely different from the rest of the campaign's gameplay, or secret discoveries like a hidden rest area to heal up and buy special items you can't get anywhere else.

Minigames sounds like a good idea. You mean keep the missions different? As in, a few might be base construction and a few might be more like an RPG. I can do that =], of course I will keep the storyline flowing through it smoothly. Hidden items, hidden areas, yes I will definitely include these things =]. +rep.

Hmm. Let's start with what people do not want.

Players don't want to be bored. What do people usually get bored of? Repetitiveness of things that aren't addicting.

People will not get addicted trying to get from point A to B by fighting the same unit over and over again, roaming around the map, breaking gates and such. People would rather play a mini-game to get through something. I'm not saying you should have standard Warcraft 3 gameplay, I'm saying that you should have a fair mix of different types of gameplay.

Did I see the word explosions? Well, not only do explosions capture a players attention, but basically visual effects that will make the player be in awe.

About the story telling, make sure to not only make the story be told through the beginning and the end of the cinematics. It makes it less follow able as it's separated into segments rather than being a part of the map. Hopefully that makes sense ^_^
Also, add some drama! We see the same stories over and over. "Evil rises, the good team has to stop them with generic obstacles blocking their victory." That premise isn't a bad thing, but there needs to be some unexpected twists. Maybe some humor. Maybe a cliff hanger or two.

I don't know for sure if you know about the things I've stated above, but this was more like a just in case post

A fair mix of different types of gameplay, like Tickles was talking about? Minigames and such? I'll definitely make sure the campaign is not repetitive =] I translated explosions to awesome visual effects =].

And yes, that story part makes complete sense. Do not worry about the storyline =]. It will flow nicely through the maps, with many twists and turns and little surprises =]. I'm experienced with this at least, so this part is the least I worry about with the map =].

I wouldn't use the term 'drama' =]. Rather I'd say attachable characters, a bit of love but not too much, twists and turns, some surprises, perhaps a cliff hanger or so, and an enemy that isn't dull, boring, or been done before. In fact, the general idea I have for the antagonist is something I haven't seen anywhere else, and I'm actually really excited about it.

The problem with humor is that it has to be done well. If you can't write well, humor can turn out really bad and sound out-of-place in the storyline. Of course, I'll add humor where I can in the story, but it won't play a huge role, nor will the humor be out of place. Since it's a dark sort of campaign, I'll call it 'grim humor' between the characters =].

I know some of these things, but the suggestions are always appreciated =] +rep to you, and thank you for the feedback.

 

[Daffa]

Also, boss fights is great addition
And not just simple ones, make some interesting ones as well

Of course, good luck with the project

 

[Tal'Rarity]

The #1 thing I have always wanted and am sure many others.

Multiplayer

So glad that someone edited wc3's basic campaigns and made them 2P.
There is no point to playing something alone and by yourself, sure it can be interesting and fun sometimes. However I look for stuff I can play again instead of beating it once and just leaving it. Don't get me wrong, WC3 is one of the best games/mods for making single player stuff but still if that was the case for myself I would have played Skyrim a while back instead of letting it sit there.

Other stuff that is required in campaigns nowadays. . . ;

Boss fights, not auto attack ones either.
Puzzles.
Thinking/strategy.
Maybe mini-games within the actual game for a variety of reasons like advancing levels or etc.
Lots of items/gear.
Some type of progress be it levels or some type of medal/trophy system.
Secrets.
Collecting stuff.
Art.
Building.

There's a lot more as well, but I think I will let others take those.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

The #1 thing I have always wanted and am sure many others.

Multiplayer

So glad that someone edited wc3's basic campaigns and made them 2P.
There is no point to playing something alone and by yourself, sure it can be interesting and fun sometimes. However I look for stuff I can play again instead of beating it once and just leaving it. Don't get me wrong, WC3 is one of the best games/mods for making single player stuff but still if that was the case for myself I would have played Skyrim a while back instead of letting it sit there.

Technically speaking, it wouldn't be a campaign file anymore. Anyway, I am also a multiplayer enthusiast, but from my observations (battle.net), people like competitive maps (Risk, DotA, Azeroth Wars, melee, castle fight, etc) more than cooperative mission styled maps.

You state there is no point, but there is. Some people simply prefer playing single player maps. The point of playing the game in many (most?) cases is for enjoyment. If others enjoy single player, there obviously is a point to it.

After all of what I've said, I think having both multiplayer and singleplayer version would cater to more players = more popularity to Necziaxxus' map.

Other stuff that is required in campaigns nowadays. . . ;

Boss fights, not auto attack ones either.
Puzzles.
Thinking/strategy.
Maybe mini-games within the actual game for a variety of reasons like advancing levels or etc.
Lots of items/gear.
Some type of progress be it levels or some type of medal/trophy system.
Secrets.
Collecting stuff.
Art.
Building.

The only thing required for campaigns to include are it's qualifications to the map submission rules. I believe you meant to use the word recommended, preferred, or encouraged instead of required. Nice list though.

 

[Necziaxxus]

Also, boss fights is great addition
And not just simple ones, make some interesting ones as well

Of course, good luck with the project

Of course, I forgot to add boss fights =]. I intend to have epic boss fights that aren't epic just based on their spells/abilities/phases and fight mechanics, but epic because of the character I'll give them before you fight them. For example, characters talking about a boss and then after a few missions you fight them. Giving the bosses character and meaning to the story before you fight and defeat them goes a long way =] And thank you, but there isn't much of a project yet =]

The #1 thing I have always wanted and am sure many others.

Multiplayer

So glad that someone edited wc3's basic campaigns and made them 2P.
There is no point to playing something alone and by yourself, sure it can be interesting and fun sometimes. However I look for stuff I can play again instead of beating it once and just leaving it. Don't get me wrong, WC3 is one of the best games/mods for making single player stuff but still if that was the case for myself I would have played Skyrim a while back instead of letting it sit there.

Other stuff that is required in campaigns nowadays. . . ;

Boss fights, not auto attack ones either.
Puzzles.
Thinking/strategy.
Maybe mini-games within the actual game for a variety of reasons like advancing levels or etc.
Lots of items/gear.
Some type of progress be it levels or some type of medal/trophy system.
Secrets.
Collecting stuff.
Art.
Building.

There's a lot more as well, but I think I will let others take those.

Hmm, multiplayer? I considered it, but I wasn't so sure when I thought about it. Of course, I think I can trigger it so that it can be played with up to three or four players, but can also be played singleplayer. Or I can released different versions =]

- Boss fights shouldn't be auto attackers =] Like I said, they'll be epic fights.
- Puzzles are confirmed.
- I want to design the units and abilities based on strategies. As of yet I'm not sure how difficult I want the campaign to be, but I want strategy to be involved. For example, using resources wisely, using spells at the right time and heavily focused on micro-managing units and base construction.
- Minigames for advancing levels, gaining extra items and units, I like the idea =] Confirmed.
- Yes, I do expect to add a lot of items and gear, and I want the majority (if not all) of the items to be custom made. For example, you won't see things like Claws of Attack =].
- I'm not sure what you mean by progression. Do you mean like missions (multiple maps)? That is what a campaign is =].
- Secrets are confirmed.
- Collecting stuff? How do you mean?
- Art?
- And building is definitely confirmed, with custom races.

Thanks you both for the feedback =]

EDIT: Posted when Stopcampingnoob did =]. As for the multiplayer, I might release a single player mode and then a multiplayer mode. See how I go =].

 

[tomoraider]

All the points you listed are things good points that a campaign needs, but through my two campaigns, I've noticed people liked simplicity and familiarity. Someone once told me something really useful in a review for my campaign, so I'll just quote it here.

My favorite thing about your campaigns:

Warcraft 3 has a number of inherent game play elements which are very well designed and are what make us love the game:

Resource management
Unit composition / army building
Powerful heroes / micro management in battles
Epic story-lines

Many campaign creators tend to fall into the trap of creating 'gimmick' gameplay elements using triggers and map features to convince the world of how clever they are (usually failing in the process). Instead, you choose to highlight the above game play elements inherent to the game in new and interesting ways.

In the end, if you're making a campaign in the Blizzard style, I think these elements are the most important ones. As for the points you listed, here are some of my thoughts on those.

- Terrain in my campaigns was not complex at all (I'm not a very good terrainer). I think just using the default tools of World Editor and some nicely placed fog is enough to make a nice looking terrain, but making more complex terrain is nice as well.
- Heroes and units, in my opinion, do not really have to be original, but they should feel... kind of, new, fresh. They don't have to be something completely new, but just different enough that makes them feel new.
- The story, in my opinion, is the most important part of the campaign. You can have amazing gameplay in your campaign, but ultimately, I believe people wouldn't stick with it unless the story was interesting and compelling, full of interesting characters, twists and all that. A satisfying ending is quite important as well.
- As for the missions, I believe it's not a problem if they're small sometimes, some maps can be made purely in service of the plot, but they should not also be too long or big. One or two harder, really challenging maps is more than enough for a campaign. Cinematics are also really important as the story is explained mainly through these.

Some other things I also added to my campaigns were unique items (special items you get through some harder side quests and such), boss fights (these are great for maps where you control only heroes) and custom music (using great music makes cinematics and boss fights so SO much better).

Though, to be honest, what people want in a campaign should be the least of your concerns. You should be concerned with what YOU want in a campaign. Create what you want. I'm not saying you should completely ignore what other people say, taking criticism and suggestions is sometimes great, but ultimately, you should be making what you want to make. The most important thing while doing this is simply to have fun.

 

[Chaosy]

All I want is a good story. Not just the story itself, how it's displayed too, cut-scenes and proper english etc.

Terrain is important to an extent. Unless it sucks, I am fine with it.

 

[Necziaxxus]

In the end, if you're making a campaign in the Blizzard style, I think these elements are the most important ones. As for the points you listed, here are some of my thoughts on those.

- Terrain in my campaigns was not complex at all (I'm not a very good terrainer). I think just using the default tools of World Editor and some nicely placed fog is enough to make a nice looking terrain, but making more complex terrain is nice as well.
- Heroes and units, in my opinion, do not really have to be original, but they should feel... kind of, new, fresh. They don't have to be something completely new, but just different enough that makes them feel new.
- The story, in my opinion, is the most important part of the campaign. You can have amazing gameplay in your campaign, but ultimately, I believe people wouldn't stick with it unless the story was interesting and compelling, full of interesting characters, twists and all that. A satisfying ending is quite important as well.
- As for the missions, I believe it's not a problem if they're small sometimes, some maps can be made purely in service of the plot, but they should not also be too long or big. One or two harder, really challenging maps is more than enough for a campaign. Cinematics are also really important as the story is explained mainly through these.

Some other things I also added to my campaigns were unique items (special items you get through some harder side quests and such), boss fights (these are great for maps where you control only heroes) and custom music (using great music makes cinematics and boss fights so SO much better).

Though, to be honest, what people want in a campaign should be the least of your concerns. You should be concerned with what YOU want in a campaign. Create what you want. I'm not saying you should completely ignore what other people say, taking criticism and suggestions is sometimes great, but ultimately, you should be making what you want to make. The most important thing while doing this is simply to have fun.

- I find myself a good terrainer without imports, so this campaign will test my abilities with imports. It won't be absolutely stunning, but it won't be terrible =]

- When you say heroes don't need to be original, do you mean their abilities, models, etc.? When I say original I mean they are triggered (mostly) abilities, but mainly that their role in the overall story is large and they are completely new characters that have no place in Warcraft lore =].

- You shouldn't need to worry about the story. If I can, I'll post a preview of the story summarized into a blurb or perhaps an introduction paragraph or two. I hope I won't disappoint =].

- By small, I mean short, not a small-sized map. I do intend to have a few small maps for cinematic purposes that will play as one mission. But I mean there will be no tiny that are short and easy and serve no purpose in the story.

- Unique items and boss fights are confirmed and will be included in the campaign. I would have to find tutorials on how to import custom music, but I think I know.

And yes, I know =] While I'm gathering suggestions and ideas for the campaign, I'm the one choosing and trimming those ideas =] Thank you for the suggestions, +rep and have a nice day.

All I want is a good story. Not just the story itself, how it's displayed too, cut-scenes and proper english etc.

Terrain is important to an extent. Unless it sucks, I am fine with it.

Don't worry about the story =] And it kills me to read sloppy English in maps, so everything will be pristine =]. Terraining is, admittedly, not my best skill, but you don't have to worry about it sucking =]. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Duke]

Lot of useful stuff already said in this thead. What I would add is that, since you said you are going with entirely new lore, to make it really different from Warcraft. What I mean is that lot of people make their own new worlds and lores, but they mostly end up with a copy of Tolkien fantasy, elves, orcs, humans, then some demon invasion or smthing, all races having the same characteristics as always. I would like to see a new, original take on fantasy. It is pretty hard to achieve tho. Just an idea. ) Good luck with your campaign.

 

[Necziaxxus]

The basic idea for this fantasy world is that there are several planes of existence, and they all work in harmony. So there's Hell (fire), the Underworld (death), the Oceans (water), the mortal planes which I haven't put a name to yet (earth), and the Heavens (light). There is also the Void, which is practically Space. Each of these realms have a powerful, immortal leader, except for the mortal planes (he was banished by human tribes long ago in a great war).

All of these immortals 'Elementals' work with eachother to create peace. There is no battle between the Heavens and Hell. They work together to ensure there is always peace. The human tribes battle among themselves, but the Elementals do not concern themselves with the mortals.

The main plot of the story is that these Elementals suddenly disappear. Out of the trace of existence. And the realms are thrown into chaos. The Underworld is taken over by these creepy gargoyle things, and invade the mortal world.

I hope you can understand that I am a brilliant lore writer and story teller (I'm being honest here, sometimes honesty is needed). There will be no plot holes or things that happen suddenly without an explanation (as in, the hero won't just find a sword at the right time when he's fighting a boss, just because he needs it. Rather, there might be side missions of the hero leading up to getting pieces of the sword or something). The story will flow nicely, it is the least of my concerns.

=] I hope this sates your worries. I wrote this summary really quickly, and I could go into more detail but I wouldn't want to spoil anything =].

 

[Noypi]

The plot is an eye-opener to be frank. It's good, and I really hope that you craft a nice campaign. Good luck!

 

[daverave1212]

I've always found cool in campaigns to discover new units as the chapters progress.
Also, get some people to do the voice acting. Use Audacity software to remove the noise from the original recording. I've seen many maps with very low sound quality and noise.
Also, remember to import the sounds into the campaign editor so you don't use up the 8mb limit of the map.
If you make a new race, make the most basic unit a ranged one! (Like nelf archers)
Limit the unit usage early on. Don't make journey-like missions with 20 units. Instead, make them with, say, 1 or 2 heroes, 2 basic units and some other types.
Make levels survival-ish.
I hope that helped. Good luck!
*Goes down the drain*

 

[Necziaxxus]

Those are good ideas Thank you daverave. However, if the campaign stays single-player, I won't need to worry about the 8mb limit, right?

 

[WhiteFang]

Also, boss fights is great addition
And not just simple ones, make some interesting ones as well

This

Also,a great and interesting story and lore.I also recommend riddels,puzzles,mini-games etc.

I also agree with the explosions xD