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Most of the old warcraft 3 modders (and when I say old, I actually include myself) don't give a shit about sc2 or wc3. If you want to evolve towards sc2, I suggest you find some youngsters that are excited about sc2. Find someone who can teach them how to mod and you've got yourself a group of modders. Simple.

I'd say advertise on battlenet and someone, code some exporters and modelingtools or whatever. If you can find enough 12-year-olds, this forum will stay alive for at least another 6 years.
 
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What are things looking like in the tutorials or tools department?

True, true. I think the problem herein lies that people google tutorials and them on mapster, then don't bother writing their own to submit here... Have the currently submitted ones been moderated/approved yet at any rate?

The problem is that there is nothing else to focus on Warcraft III, people are abandoning it, and there is no certainty that a Warcraft 4 will come out. If it did, how long would we hang on, how many members would we have lost by the time it came out? A third would have moved on to other games and a second third would have abandoned the gaming world due to age.
Also, if, in the future, that wild Data Editor proves to be manageable, which is bound to be by at least a few individuals, then Blizzard will most unlikely make it easier for Warcraft 4.

I'm no 'data-editor' but just recently I was kinda forced into looking at it to change a few things and I realised it REALLY isn't as complex as people make it out to be, infact to some degree it's a lot easier to do things than in Warcraft III (and this comes from a guy who wanted to troll blizzard mad when I first saw it). I mean I've barely scratched the surface, but once you've spent an hour or two in it the basics like changing models, anim speeds and stats aren't hard at all and god do I love that search function!!!

As for a Warcraft IV - Maybe they'll make one, maybe they won't. Either way mods like our own (wclotd) will come out in attempt to soothe the long and perhaps fruitless wait (like CW's D3W map) - my hope is that Warcraft fans will contribute together to bring those to life, even if they dislike sc2, that way we'll kind of 'help ourselves' so to speak.
 

Rui

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Yes, but the most important and (unfortunately) complicated part is the effect tab. I have been trying to figure out how the Void Ray's Prismatic Beam works and it's an effect on top of another effect on top of another effect. I have also been trying to do a Critical Strike ability with no success. I haven't even looked at the Carrier's attacks or other abilities yet. It takes time and patience, and I rarely have both these things at the same time.
 
Pyritie said:
I'm hesitant to start any SC2 contests because I'm afraid not many people would enter because they don't know how to do them. What are things looking like in the tutorials or tools department? Are there enough tutorials for people to easily make models? Are there enough tools so people can export their models easily? Are there programs to preview skins?

Well there seems to lie a problem in that - I don't see sc2 getting much spur in activity until something like a contest spurs some people into sharing their creations with the site, but on the other hand not many people know how to use the sc2 editor effectively - so it's essentially everyone waiting on everyone else, exactly how to solve that I'm not sure.

Nightelf125 said:
I agree. The site should definitely focus on the game that made it a success, WC3, till WC4 comes out. SC2 is always going to be harder to mod and make models for especially because of the greatly improved graphics and attention to detail the models need to look in-place in the SC2 world. Coupled with the cumbersome and very hard to learn SC2 Data Editor/Editor, it'll be a while before anything big happens.

I'll just condense your whole argument into:
"I like fantasy, so we shouldn't support sc2"

That's the only logical explanation I can find for your argument - what makes you think wc4 is going to be any less complicated to use then sc2? If they are going to make a wc4, they'd probably build off of what they've done in sc2 - thus most likely resulting in a more complicated/intricate version of the data editor put in place there, that is unless they pull another sc2 and go off on another completely different tangent (as sc2's data editor is compared to the wc3 editors).

Pyritie said:
The only contests I could see working right now is an icon contest and maybe a simple mapping or terraining contest, though I don't know how the terrainers feel about making something without a SC2 UTM.

People survived without a wc3 utm for long enough
What's wrong with the models already in the game? I mean they put them at your disposal for a reason
 
There's a bit of a problem with cash prizes though, that means you have to go through a lot of formalities to enter/etc. - also what if the winner lives in Serbia, and thus can't have money wired to them, etc. etc.

There are workarounds though, like how you added an icon as a prize in the music contest, but really that mainly appeals to constant chat users on the site.
 
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I'll just condense your whole argument into:
"I like fantasy, so we shouldn't support sc2"

That's the only logical explanation I can find for your argument - what makes you think wc4 is going to be any less complicated to use then sc2? If they are going to make a wc4, they'd probably build off of what they've done in sc2 - thus most likely resulting in a more complicated/intricate version of the data editor put in place there, that is unless they pull another sc2 and go off on another completely different tangent (as sc2's data editor is compared to the wc3 editors).

But Warcraft is different than SC. They've seen the feedback on the SC2 editor and heard the complaints. They know why the WC3 modding community is still alive and they know how much people love the editor. Undoubtedly the editor in WC4 will be more complicated, but, it should be a vast improvement over SC2's as I believe Blizzard has learned from the release of it. General improvements will be in place, such as having chat channels in PLACE at the launch of the game, clans, a better custom games system, etc. And 1 of these major improvements is likely to be the editor, to make it more along the line of WC3's.
 
But Warcraft is different than SC. They've seen the feedback on the SC2 editor and heard the complaints, And begun addressing them. They know why the WC3, and Sc2 modding communites are alive and they know how much people love the editors. Undoubtedly the editor in WC4 will be more complicated, but, it should be a vast improvement over Sc2's as I believe Blizzard has learned from the release of it, and the post release support of the sc2's editor, and 2 expansion's worth of Improvments to the editor concept. General improvements will be in place, such as having chat channels in PLACE at the launch of the game, clans, a better custom games system, etc. All of which are already being updated in sc2, so its not a huge deal. And 1 of these major improvements is likely to be the editor, to make it more along the line of WC3's, No, actually, on second thought, why make an already easy enough tool to learn (with a MODICUM of effort people?) Simpler, and cut back on efficiency for people who are actually interested in serious modding? No reason. Maybe organize it a little better and fix some of the bugs, thats all.

Fixed

Your argument is also bullcrap because blizzard's long term release schedule doesen't even include warcraft 4, (leaked, along with Titan) atleast not until 2016 (2018, 2020) or later is my guess. Will warcraft 3 survive that long with more than a cult following of serious modders? and nobody skilled in a new and more serious range of modding equipment here on the hive? No. it won't. Unless we attract young, serious, helpful modders, The hive is not going to be a serious destination for those kinds of people who really want to be involved with that kind of community, and more dedicated communities will spring up.

The OP is right, take initiative now, take it sharply, and we can get a niche in.
If we don't, We'll be left behind if we haven't already lost too much ground.
 

fladdermasken

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I'm hesitant to start any SC2 contests because I'm afraid not many people would enter because they don't know how to do them. What are things looking like in the tutorials or tools department? Are there enough tutorials for people to easily make models? Are there enough tools so people can export their models easily? Are there programs to preview skins?

That sort of thing.

The only contests I could see working right now is an icon contest and maybe a simple mapping or terraining contest, though I don't know how the terrainers feel about making something without a SC2 UTM.

The opening paragraph applies to a terraining contest as well.
While letting my doubt that more than a handful users would participate slip, you would still have to consider it from the jury's perspective.

Without reliable and widely accepted techniques to critique, the judging would, purely subjectively if I may add, be based on the appearance of the terrain only.
And while this may sound ideal, I would be stunned if the drama from such judging didn't evolve into a full on riot in the blink of an eye.

We all know the majority of all artfags can't handle criticism well.

That aside, I can't imagine any 'none space related' themes for such a contest, seeming as there aren't too many custom models to work with, or at least to my knowledge.

So no, I would not promote such a contest.

I can say that our terraining contest at UDMod was a relative success. We got like 7 submissions, and we only needed one extension. :p Overall, the contest lasted two months, but UDMod is tiny compared to the Hive, so the situation here should be much more optimistic.
So yeah, a terraining contest wont be too bad.
Tiny compared to Hive, yes.
Tiny compared to Hive regarding active Starcraft modders, I think not.

To be completely honest, I would say that next to every active Starcraft modder on Hive has an account on UDMod already.

I'm sticking to my guns, if more than a handful people would each have a 'not too crappy' entry before the deadline, I'd be shocked.
 
Without reliable and widely accepted techniques to critique, the judging would, purely subjectively if I may add, be based on the appearance of the terrain only.
And while this may sound ideal, I would be stunned if the drama from such judging didn't evolve into a full on riot in the blink of an eye.

You have to start somewhere you know
Why bother waiting for someone else to do it for you?
 

fladdermasken

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You have to start somewhere you know
Why bother waiting for someone else to do it for you?
I didn't say 'don't start', I said 'don't start with a contest'.

And whatever, I don't care as long as the Starcraft terraining contests won't compromise or replace the Warcraft ones.
Call me conservative and selfish if you wish, but I for one don't have Starcraft and I'm not planning on getting it any time soon either, if ever.
 
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I just find it odd that there hasn't been more progress made with sc2 here
Because, this is a non mapping related asset site. (As in not about systems etc. More about art related assets.) And, until Blizzard releases their asset development tools, we aren't going to see any.

You can't compare this site to mapster as we both house users with completely different intensives for the most part. As far as I can tell, there are no sites booming with large amounts of art assets.

So, its not because we're slow, its because Blizzard wont get their shit strait.

Now watch as a bunch of people swarm to defend Blizzard. :3
 
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Yesterday evening I took some time to write a comment to tell about the situation regarding sc2 terraining contests, but the moment I wanted to post it, my internet crashed and somehow the whole message (bunchatext) was deleted and I could not access it anymore, however this sums it up to a certain extant:

The opening paragraph applies to a terraining contest as well.
While letting my doubt that more than a handful users would participate slip, you would still have to consider it from the jury's perspective.

Without reliable and widely accepted techniques to critique, the judging would, purely subjectively if I may add, be based on the appearance of the terrain only.
And while this may sound ideal, I would be stunned if the drama from such judging didn't evolve into a full on riot in the blink of an eye.

We all know the majority of all artfags can't handle criticism well.

That aside, I can't imagine any 'none space related' themes for such a contest, seeming as there aren't too many custom models to work with, or at least to my knowledge.

I had some more things to add, but yeah, those problems exist....
 
Now watch as a bunch of people swarm to defend Blizzard. :3

Blizzard sucks.

There isn't much harm to a contest, the worst that could happen is only 1 person signs up, in which you can simply cancel the contest.
Terraining Contests and Texturing Contests seems doable, since we've got the necessary assets already, and it isn't very hard to judge. Now, yeah I know

Without reliable and widely accepted techniques to critique, the judging would be based on the appearance of the terrain only

But a texturing competition wouldn't fall prey to this.

Anyways, I say we make a contest, and it'll get people onto SC2, and onto THW.
 
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Hi all, i know the hive about 2 years ago, but only rigth now i've registered as a member of this community. Personally, i prefer wc3 that sc2, and i'll continue mapping in we of wc3. But i recognize that sc2 its a great platform to be exploted as an editing stuff, but the whole community must think about having two great platforms and make them to coexist. Maybe the ones who are more interested in sc2 have to structure the way to be both sc2 and wc3 powerfull hive... the idea is not to moving on just because there is a new game, or just because wc3 its stucked and there probably will be no more updates, but it still being a great plataform and many, many people still playing and mapping in wc3, and those people need some house-idea and a way to share their projects, and the hive is an amazing one. (sorry about my english if there is a mistake)
 
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That's the point, there is no where to go. What are we supposed to be leading? Have the most sc2 maps? This site was never about having lots of maps. It's always been about giving mappers assets they couldn't otherwise make themselves. There's nothing to lead because Blizzard won't give us anything.

There is no real race here.
 
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Fixed

Your argument is also bullcrap because blizzard's long term release schedule doesen't even include warcraft 4, (leaked, along with Titan) atleast not until 2016 (2018, 2020) or later is my guess. Will warcraft 3 survive that long with more than a cult following of serious modders? and nobody skilled in a new and more serious range of modding equipment here on the hive? No. it won't. Unless we attract young, serious, helpful modders, The hive is not going to be a serious destination for those kinds of people who really want to be involved with that kind of community, and more dedicated communities will spring up.

The OP is right, take initiative now, take it sharply, and we can get a niche in.
If we don't, We'll be left behind if we haven't already lost too much ground.

Bullcrap? Is that the kind of language that you use around here when disagreeing with someone? Tskk tskk, that's disappointing. I want wc3 to survive, and I never said it wouldn't require work to do that. But I do believe that we will achieve it in some form. The SC2 editor requires way more than a MODICUM of effort to learn compared to the wc3 editor and I have talented map makers who can vouch for this. The editor is simply not designed as well as it needs to be. There is a way to achieve user-friendliness without cutting back on efficiency or power; something which the sc2 editor lacks. Not having chat channels, clans, etc at the launch of the game was a huge mistake and as a person who went out and bought the game, beat the singleplayer, played a little multiplayer, and quit out of boredom and over the weird lack of features and quality custom maps, I can vouch for this and so can many other people. Perhaps if the game had has these seemingly obvious and critical things at the start and not in a patch AGES later, it would've held my interest for slightly longer. But not much more due to the boredom that would ensue from the above mentioned lack of quality custom maps along with the horrible and much criticized popularity system for them.

Your guess is as good as anyone's else's and you aren't anymore right than me. It's my opinion that the site should stay focused on wc3. Let another community take the lead in sc2.
 
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Bob, People have been making due with what we can on sc2 for ahwile, its not like when wc3 came out it was any better. wc3 has like 7 years of time or support to develop.

That's not really what I mean. I'm talking about art assets. "Making due" applies to the few people who have managed to use the independent exporters that they have. What we really need, is Blizzard's art tools, which we wont get till the expansion. (Classic example is wc3.) Until then, we shouldn't go all "ohshi the sky is falling" just because we aren't as big as another site, that isn't even going the direction we are anyway.
 
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Just ask blizzard to create WorldCraft..no more WarCraft or StarCraft..

so blizzard can focused to one Epic game..and we WC3 and SC2 player can live on Peace..

and that's was an independent day for all mapster..
(sorry..bad grammar)
 
i dont know. i vaguely remember someone saying in the chat that we already lost(when it comes to sc2) to some other site(that i cant remember) and that person happens to be in this thread as well.

and i dont know. is there any working custom sc2 models around? around the web that is. cos i havent seen any. and apparently someone made a plugin. but that news kinda died off as well
 
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The problem in that department isn't so much "can we make models" as much as "is it practical to make models". And, its not practical atm. Thus, we won't see any massive art asset explosion. We may see some yes, but its no where near a sustainable amount. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Without Blizzard's art tools, we wont be seeing much art.
 
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Ofc they wouldn't have an issue provided they know what they are doing. When I say practical, I'm referring to the accessibility of the tools. And even then you could make the case that's it's easy. The problem though, is no one is going to use plugins like that. Atleast, no one new. Mostly, because they aren't advertised in a mass fashion, and people generally don't want to bother with makeshift game plugins anyway. Whenever Blizzard releases the art tools, modelers across the world will all have access to that info easily, and will be able to easily attain the tools. And, there will be a massive flow of tutorials and whatnot to get people going. At that point, a sustainable model database will be practical. (Like the one we have here for wc3.)

In other words, as much as you and your team may be able to do it easily, it would be near impossible to advertise that ability to the point of having a practical and sustainable model database that will grow consistently. So sc2mapster isn't going to "beat us to it". They are not an art asset focused site anyway. We aren't falling behind here. Just give it time like wc3. Let Blizzard pull its little marketing stunt with the tools, and when the expansion is released, everyone will buy it and then download sed tools. (Or if blizzard is smart they will just include the tools within the expansion directly. Would result in lots of hate, but like any good company, money is far more important.)

Yes there are models. Are there enough models for a sustainable database on an art asset site? Goodness no. There is no flow, there is no consistency, there is honestly no variety, and there is definitely no sustainability. Just give it time. Wait for blizzard to do it's thing. They always do marketing stunts like this and they always will.
 
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But MOST modelers do use such third-party plugins for Warcraft III. Not everyone owns 3DS Max 4\5. Most use Neodex, or the Milkshape Exporter\Importer, or even complete modeling programs like MDLvis, Vertex Modifier, Magos' Model Editor etc.

As for SC2Mapster not being an art-asset focused community, they are hosting some kind of show or something called 'modcraft' in which many quality models are being made. I'm not sure how it works, but I've seen the models and I've seen the adds. Here's an example of a case in which SC2Mapster has provided the SC2 community with some really high quality models:
http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/images/30/494/Set1.jpg
 
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But MOST modelers do use such third-party plugins for Warcraft III. Not everyone owns 3DS Max 4\5. Most use Neodex, or the Milkshape Exporter\Importer, or even complete modeling programs like MDLvis, Vertex Modifier, Magos' Model Editor etc.

Not for the initial explosion. We use them now because we already had databases of models from when the art tools were released, and being as it was sustainable, more modelers became interested regardless of tools. In order to get something like that going, you have to have the initial kick off to begin with. Blizzard is good at doing that sort of thing. They just wont until the expansion is released.

As for SC2Mapster not being an art-asset focused community, they are hosting some kind of show or something called 'modcraft' in which many quality models are being made. I'm not sure how it works, but I've seen the models and I've seen the adds. Here's an example of a case in which SC2Mapster has provided the SC2 community with some really high quality models:
http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/images/30/494/Set1.jpg

Thats a contest. Not a sustainable asset database for actual map makers. Having a "make the best models you can! oh and mappers can use them too" is different than having an entire database with a working moderation system and a regular flow of assets not dependent on massive community events.
 
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Again like many i ask why go to Sc2. Well Tbh For all You great fans out there. I don't think there will be a Wc4. As To be honest Wow pretty much ended the story and A usually if a game is in a Triology it makes alot more sense than 4th then 5th as that just gets tiresoume. All though Considering so many people are wanting a Wc4. And you know blizzard like all Big companies aim is to gain money. Im guessing After Sc2 They might either Release Sc3 or Instead of a Wc4 A Game similiar To what we would call a Wc4. As it would still be fantasy but would probs start in a new world. Or be completly diffrent part of the warcraft world .

The wc3 is doing fine and there is already a Sc2 Part on hive.

Also is it just me or Does the Sc2 editor look like it has a considerable amount of bloat?
 
The sc2 editor is pretty much the opposite of bloat really
It's just not put in any easy way to understand, they probably learned from wc3 that their fanbase can get pretty technical with their systems and such, even creating their own workarounds (like vJass and Zinc) because the wc3 system was too restraining - so they pretty much gave them what they wanted, undenied access to pretty much all game data.
 

Rui

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My guess is that, if Wc4 includes WoW lore, the Wc3 «resistance» is going to get mightily pissed off, but perhaps WoW players won't be too happy to see their game completely discarded either. Personally, I wouldn't mind having the golden mid between Wc3 and WoW or a game similar to Warcraft 4 even if it wasn't Warcraft lore as long as it was set in a medieval/fantasy theme as well. I like Warcraft lore just as much as I like getting into new lores, so I wouldn't mind if they released a new game altogether, as long as it was set into a medieval/fantasy theme.

I'm learning to do new stuff in the Galaxy Editor, but I'm furious that they didn't include map crossing and that there's no way to circumvent the map size limitations. It just blew off my idea for a project completely, so I don't have anything to apply the knowledge that I acquire on.
 
I've lost the link, but they said that if they were going to make one, they would ignore wow lore... i think...

To all the neeeigh-saaayers out there, to be totally honest, the galaxy editor is a piece of pie, the only difference is that all those fancy workarounds to inbuilt limitations are now PART of the engine, meaning you have to learn them first, but honestly, i'm what i would call decent, and thats just from tinkering around with the tools, its taken me only a little while longer to learn GE compared to WE.

About the theme crap, thats primarily why i am doing my project, WcLotd, so we can have a fantasy base of art/systems to draw from when doing other mods, or that people can borrow from the team.
 
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