Reality Check

[The World Is Flat]

Well I've been wanting to post this for a long time, and before i start i'd liek to point out that this thread is entriely hypocritical.

I Don't know the value of this post either, so if its a waste of server space, feel free to delete it.


Now onto buisness.

I've felt for ahwile now that the hive is overthinking itself. Getting to internalized, self absorbed, micro-managed. people arent looking at the big picture. We are getting too serious about a hobby and a community devoted to doing somthing we all love doing.

"The Hive Workshop is a Warcraft III and Starcraft II Modding site'

Warcraft 3 modding, and sc2 modding, implies hobby, you don't make money of it. we do this because we have fun, and it feels like people are ruining that experience because they are overthinking what the hive is and does, were a community, were a group of people from all over the world who liked wc3 and now sc2, and we want to hand out with people who like to mod the game, and work together to make projects work.

People who make resources for the game, people who make maps, people who hang out, it doesent matter.

We are overthinking and overdoing everything here. we all seem so overserious, and then we all get into drama-gossip. And its fucking annoying.

I'm pissed were all acting like a bunch of 12 year olds playing a game of tag and we can't lay back and hang out and do what we want to do, and have fun.

Thats all.

/endrant.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Frankly, this site can hardly be called a SC2 modding sight. SC2mapster has won that title and will remain with it until the end unless something happens to them or major changes are made with this site. I did advise more resources be allocated to SC2 during the beta and before the release to try and bolster the SC2 community on this site but apparently such things were not needed.

As for the problem... I seems to me it is run more as a playground rather than as a hobby site. Despite the new administrators, less seems to be getting done to the users than before. Yes the nice little forum changes are useful, but is that really all 6 administrators can do in 4 odd months?

 

[PlasmaSnake]

Hmm a

 

[Skycraft]

If someone IS overthinking and whatnot, they just need to relax and chill. It's okay, free hugs for all ;D

 

[Devine]

Admins never do shit. Face it, DSG.
I'm just here for the lulz, I couldn't care less about the gaming aspect of this site.

 

[imter]

DSG is right, and everyone who wants to do something SC2 related can see it. Since my acc didn't get deleted apparently I will just come occassionally as starting an account from zero will give me no motivation to stay much here. (I have only 1 account at a time dont worry). The 'Drama Queen' won't come back.

I'm at THW since 2005 and have been promoting people to come to THW, well sort of. Now I come to say: People if you want to do SC2 related stuff, playing, mapmaking, asking for help, do it at SC2mapster or any other place. It's pointless to stay here for SC2...

From what I see there's nothing to regret about wiping my account. Just cause some n00bs started WC3 in years 2008-2010 and now majority wants this to stay WC3? Where have you been in the last 7 years? War3 since 2001/2 TFT since 2003. Just because some just started war3 this should remain wc3 mostly? And Ralle can just spare his time and not bother making anything because SC2 is barely living here anyway under the pressure of 'war3 all along no sc2 needed'. See you at sc2mapster.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Meh, I think it's perfectly fine if people want to take things seriously.
If people didn't, nothing (maps etc) would ever get done.

But yeah, I think what you meant to say was a lot of people on this site are.. stuck up?
Yeah, I'm not going to beat round the bush I think that's what you mean.
And I'm with Mid on this one!

 

[Ralle]

Frankly, this site can hardly be called a SC2 modding sight. SC2mapster has won that title and will remain with it until the end unless something happens to them or major changes are made with this site. I did advise more resources be allocated to SC2 during the beta and before the release to try and bolster the SC2 community on this site but apparently such things were not needed.

As for the problem... I seems to me it is run more as a playground rather than as a hobby site. Despite the new administrators, less seems to be getting done to the users than before. Yes the nice little forum changes are useful, but is that really all 6 administrators can do in 4 odd months?

I am currently the only one to technically move this site forward.. It's always been like that and now I am a busy student so that sucks.

I feel so bad about our SC2 section. I really wanted to expand to SC2 but it's not going as I wanted it to.

I also feel that so many people are just here to do nothing. I would actually prefer if people were only here if they were actually modding the games..

Oh and, I deleted like 30 posts in this thread cause a lot of them were stupid and some weren't very useful..

 

[Midnighters]

Wonderful, we were on topic, so they should not have been deleted. I am going to ve sure to repost mine in the future.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Well we all know your doing your best ralle, this was more aimed at the users. most of us know very well how much time studying takes up (and that time is deserved)

Were just happy you have the decency to stay with us .

 

[En_Fuego]

I also feel that so many people are just here to do nothing. I would actually prefer if people were only here if they were actually modding the games..

Ralle, I think this point you make is the right idea; but to be completely honest, I think it's always been like this.

It's just that the people who do spend time modding now aren't as good as the people who have left.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Unfortunatly, thats the way its going.

 

[Zombie]

I detect similar patterns emerging all around the internet, the Hive really is a favorable alternative to some other games I play.

Wherever you put devotion into the internet, so come the demands. The seriousness which you can't express in real life, you do on the internet. Too bad you aren't getting paid for it, it's a damn addiction I say.

 

[Midnighters]

Well, then you have people like me that put seriousness into everything they do. And it would be awesome to get paid for it.

 

[Zombie]

Whining to the mods every time someone displays an opinion that's the opposite of yours is not something I'd consider being serious... or mature.

 

[Midnighters]

Matter of your opinion, and when someone opposes an opinion of mine, I do not report them unless it is considered against the rules, I am trying to get rid of said assholes. Maturity factors into this none.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I just want people to stop overthinking the hive.
Seriousness is fine, just not too much seriousness.

 

[Zombie]

Matter of your opinion, and when someone opposes an opinion of mine, I do not report them unless it is considered against the rules, I am trying to get rid of said assholes. Maturity factors into this none.

All work and no play...

Besides, there's a difference between reporting someone and reporting then posting something like "RAWR YOU ARE REPORTED" to make the community see how much of a well-behaved individual you are.

Please don't report me for going off-topic. Q_Q

I just want people to stop overthinking the hive.
Seriousness is fine, just not too much seriousness.

The old saying steps in.

"The internet is serious business."

And with that, if everyone keeps venting their otherwise misunderstood seriousness and seeming maturity which is a characteristic of people who fail at rl social integration, it'll never change.

It's kinda weird that no problems like this have been present around 2008. Either I'm stupid and we're growing up or more and more youngsters take refuge on the internet from their rl problems.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I have the darndest feeling your right.

 

[Boris_Spider]

...more and more youngsters take refuge on the internet from their rl problems.

This, but not just 'youngsters.'

Technology, and thus the internet, is just a distraction. That's why you're seeing more and more devices which let you think less and less. Plus, more people expect something for nothing - hence the decreasing 'quality' present everywhere.

Online, you can be whatever you want to be with few rl consequences. Forum bans can be bypassed.

Most of this has to do with time.

... and you're getting older. :

//\\oo//\\

 

[Ramza]

Ralle, I think this point you make is the right idea; but to be completely honest, I think it's always been like this.

It's just that the people who do spend time modding now aren't as good as the people who have left.

Hm... I wouldn't say that. There have always been good and bad modders on this site.
I actually think most serious modders are the ones who stay, and people who don't mod move on to the newest game.

And a campaign of mine is coming soon, to prove you wrong.

 

[En_Fuego]

Hm... I wouldn't say that. There have always been good and bad modders on this site.
I actually think most serious modders are the ones who stay, and people who don't mod move on to the newest game.

And a campaign of mine is coming soon, to prove you wrong.

A lot more "esteemed" modelers and mapmakers that I'm talking about were jointly associated between the Hive and wc3c and at some point left for wc3c.

Also, to say that the current Hive standards of modeling are equivalent to the past is an insult to them.

 

[Midnighters]

Hm... I wouldn't say that. There have always been good and bad modders on this site.
I actually think most serious modders are the ones who stay, and people who don't mod move on to the newest game.

And a campaign of mine is coming soon, to prove you wrong.

I haven't opened wc3 for 4 month before last night

All work and no play...

Besides, there's a difference between reporting someone and reporting then posting something like "RAWR YOU ARE REPORTED" to make the community see how much of a well-behaved individual you are.

Please don't report me for going off-topic. Q_Q

The old saying steps in.

"The internet is serious business."

And with that, if everyone keeps venting their otherwise misunderstood seriousness and seeming maturity which is a characteristic of people who fail at rl social integration, it'll never change.

It's kinda weird that no problems like this have been present around 2008. Either I'm stupid and we're growing up or more and more youngsters take refuge on the internet from their rl problems.

I will not report for that, and we all know, I am not the most well behaved member on this site.

As for the refuge, I am one of those, I have many real life problems right now, that I try to escape on the internet, because most sites don't have that much drama, but is seems hive has an over abundance.

 

[HINDYhat]

I'm pissed were all acting like a bunch of 12 year olds playing a game of tag and we can't lay back and hang out and do what we want to do, and have fun.

wat.

And with that, if everyone keeps venting their otherwise misunderstood seriousness and seeming maturity which is a characteristic of people who fail at rl social integration, it'll never change.

lol.

It's kinda weird that no problems like this have been present around 2008. Either I'm stupid and we're growing up or more and more youngsters take refuge on the internet from their rl problems.

As far as I'm aware, there has always been some bullshit or other going on, other than when the site was tiny, regardless of user age.

Just look the other way, nothing to see here, just generic THW tri-yearly drama. I'm guessing a moderator will resign or be demoted soon.

 

[Zombie]

As far as I'm aware, there has always been some bullshit or other going on, other than when the site was tiny, regardless of user age.

Just look the other way, nothing to see here, just generic THW tri-yearly drama. I'm guessing a moderator will resign or be demoted soon.

True, but back then drama was not the consequence of everyone acting like a 40 years old virgin, making room for some lulz to be had. It was also considerably more rare, firestorms embracing the site thrice a year are a preferred alternative to someone going Q_Q every day or week due to the consequence of some people overacting it.

Still, I do believe the Hive is better off in regards of forced seriousness and egoism than some other sites I frequent. Good thing there are no nominal values to spark drama as there are on other gaming forums where drama goes on every day due to the in-game behavior of others.

 

[Hakeem]

I'm guessing a moderator will resign or be demoted soon.

No, this was user-invoked. Means promotions will take place.


I haven't become the administrator I wanted to be, and haven't done half the things I wanted to. But I'm not giving up yet. Manning the creation of new social groups has shown me something. Simply look at the list of the newly created social groups. Notice a pattern?

Sure, we've got lots of room to improve, but it's not nearly as bad as some of us imagine it is.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Interesting development... that the tread has taken.

In referance to my tag statment, it was metaphor for a bunch of people arguing their socks off about somthing thats... not very relevant.

Anyway, it seems to me like the hive is less mature now than ever. but thats not the point of this thread. the point i was trying to make is that... it feels like all the immature 12 year olds are trying to act 'big' and seriously overthinking the hive in the process.

 

[Hemske]

Hive is actually quite the serious forum.
There is just people who tend to have fun every once in a while. (I can't see any problem with that though?)

There is a lot of forums around the internet that is completely out of their minds. Especially compared to Hive.

There isn't that much "unseriousness" and/or "12 year old behaviour" here, not that much that it would need some drastic change or suchlike.

But sure, there are less modding and seriousness on the "mod-part" compared to when I joined this forum.
Might be because I, myself, don't mod WC3 anymore, so I don't see the that much of the modding part of the game here anymore. I am sure some of you "veterans" are the same.

You see Hive having less quality maps/icons/skins etc. But that is probably just because you have higher expectations on the stuff here, because you have witnessed some really awesome things from the early days to our presence. But there is still active, and very good, users who shits out loads of great resources.

I don't think it is Hive's users or community who "ruin" (sorry for the word of choice) this forum, it is just that WC3 is starting to get old, and we all see that.

It is just natural that the motivation for a game this old begins to fade.
And we have all grown up, which might be the reason that some of you see Hive as more childish than in the past.

 

[Midnighters]

Games getting old, I still play old playstation one games that never get old, I even still play Nintendo games, or Atari for that matter.

 

[Hemske]

Games getting old, I still play old playstation one games that never get old, I even still play Nintendo games, or Atari for that matter.

You sure do. I still play SNES. But people overall are not playing those old games as much anymore.

 

[Midnighters]

In my opinion, the older, the funner and better, same has to do with cars..... Women not so much xD But I would rather play some SNES games like Super Mario, than the modern day games.

 

[GhostThruster]

Well, at least you admitted the thread to be hypocritcal...

But, who really cares that much? The 12 year-olds will just grow out to be 40-year old virgins and not get any friends. Most of the serious people are old anyways, I've never seen a 12 year-old act too 'adulty' on the Hive yet, and you haven't been here much longer than me.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

If you take a deep look towards this site, you will notice that it has
'reputation beyond repute'
or that it's a
'glorious beacon of light'.

Now, try to answer a question: Do you want less seriousness in here? Because, it seems that you can have fun with your friends in any time, anywhere. VM, PM, ...
You can have fun on random topics. You can enter the goddamn chat and chit-chat all day long. All in one, you can have fun.

We are not some sissies (sorry for that) to get that serious. As long as I am here, I haven't faced any problems with having fun. I mean, you can always bounce upon something that will get you interested, such as resource, map, How-to-do-this-or-that, ...
My point is that if Hive could get even slightly more serious, it would ruin the whole thing. But, more fun would appear in form where we would try to join Thw, but a error will appear:
,,Sorry, I'm eating. You can't join THW until I finish. Ralle".
Just a harsh example of troubles and irony that could appear. The site is perfect to be, by my opinion. The only thing about which I would complain is that we need more seriousness with idiotic (sorry, again) users who jump from topic to topic and post things out of any intelligence.

Oh, and sorry for using your name for an example, Ralle.

 

[Lich Prince]

The mods should maintain a certain level of "seriousness". You can't tell them to chill.

 

[The World Is Flat]

You misinterpret the meaning of the post.

 

[Boris_Spider]

The mods should maintain a certain level of "seriousness". You can't tell them to chill.

The problem is that some mods are too serious about the resources uploaded (Assuming every piece submitted by a new user has been plagiarized; and ownership must be verified despite the fact this site exists on a medium called the INTERNET). To the extent that they expect every resource to be a masterpiece, THW is NOT DA, it's a modding site. As such, it's primary purpose is to serve as a stash of resources that may be of use to other modders. DA already serves as a major art site.

Crabby_Spider and I no longer upload icons because of that issue.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Kimbo]

The problem is that some mods are too serious about the resources uploaded (Assuming every piece submitted by a new user has been plagiarized; and ownership must be verified despite the fact this site exists on a medium called the INTERNET). To the extent that they expect every resource to be a masterpiece, THW is NOT DA, it's a modding site. As such, it's primary purpose is to serve as a stash of resources that may be of use to other modders. DA already serves as a major art site.

Crabby_Spider and I no longer upload icons because of that issue.

//\\oo//\\

The mods dont judge by "how good your work is" on a basis you claim, its all about "own rightfully owns the icons", they are protecting peoples rights over art, not being a serious business asshole group.

Besides, using DA is a terrible example considering its a free personal art gallery site and not what you call being judged for good art and bad artists being kicked out.

Besides, this site its trying to have a little thing called "dignity" reserved for its resource people, its not a "crap" site where you "dump" resources to the point its raining dogs and cats.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

 

[The World Is Flat]

<3 Anarchian

 

[Boris_Spider]

The mods dont judge by "how good your work is" on a basis you claim, its all about "own rightfully owns the icons", they are protecting peoples rights over art, not being a serious business asshole group.

Besides, using DA is a terrible example considering its a free personal art gallery site and not what you call being judged for good art and bad artists being kicked out.

Besides, this site its trying to have a little thing called "dignity" reserved for its resource people, its not a "crap" site where you "dump" resources to the point its raining dogs and cats.

~I'm well aware the icon section is all about "rightfully owning the icons" - it's why Crabby and I stopped uploading. We uploaded the icons with the intent of getting feedback on the icons for possible improvements, instead all we got were accusations of CnP (Mods and users alike) and little or no feedback on the icon image itself.
If people were really concerned about having their art stolen, they wouldn't upload it onto the Internet.

~DA is actually an excellent example, as they don't immeadiately accuse you of plagiarism and demand that you prove you're the author. Essentially, here you're atomatically guilty of plagiarism if:
1) You have almost no rep/posts
2) Have no connections to any 'known' users
3) Don't have a video of you making what you claimed to have made which is also proven to have been recorded by you.

As for the resource art being judged good or bad, well that's up to the user who's considering using it now isn't it... The mods should be used to ensure resources properly function and aren't obvious duplicates with slight edits of existing available resources. Instead, they're being asked to dictate what resources are good and which are bad for the user. Shitty resources won't get downloaded, good ones will. This applies to all resources, not just icons.

~The attempt at dignity is converting this site into "a serious business asshole group." Hence the OP. Gaming mod sites and Dignity are hardly synonymous.

"The Hive Workshop is a Warcraft III and Starcraft II Modding site'

Warcraft 3 modding, and sc2 modding, implies hobby, you don't make money of it. we do this because we have fun, and it feels like people are ruining that experience because they are overthinking what the hive is and does, were a community, were a group of people from all over the world who liked wc3 and now sc2, and we want to hand out with people who like to mod the game, and work together to make projects work...

...We are overthinking and overdoing everything here. we all seem so overserious, and then we all get into drama-gossip. And its fucking annoying...

~The modding done here is non-profit, and thus doesn't violate any copyright laws.

~Resources are uploaded because another user may find them useful, not because they're another masterpiece.

//\\oo//\\

 

[En_Fuego]

~The modding done here is non-profit, and thus doesn't violate any copyright laws.

~Resources are uploaded because another user may find them useful, not because they're another masterpiece.

It's called intelectual property...it's the same concept at what goes on at Deviant Art...and among other things, some people do get paid for modding.

 

[Boris_Spider]

It's called intelectual property...it's the same concept at what goes on at Deviant Art...and among other things, some people do get paid for modding.

Some people do get paid for modding, Blizzard employees are a prime example. No one here, uploading on THW, is selling their creations, uploaded on THW, for money. That would be a copyright violation.

//\\oo//\\

 

[En_Fuego]

Some people do get paid for modding, Blizzard employees are a prime example. No one here, uploading on THW, is selling their creations, uploaded on THW, for money. That would be a copyright violation.

//\\oo//\\

Blizzard will pay people for modding SC2...if you upload on the Hive then would that be a copyright violation?

What's it a copyright violation of anyway? It's your right to sell it...

 

[Boris_Spider]

The responses from Kimberly and En_Fuego exemplify the issue TWIF was bringing up.

They have valid points, but as TWIF pointed out THW isn't meant to be a site highlighting 'purely proffesional results' but rather a community of people with similar interests that are looking for the opportunity to display and improve their skills.

If only the best modders are allowed to upload, you alienate users from the opportunity to improve their skills and beneift THW as a whole. By doing this you discourage new users from participating. The best modders here started out doing shitty mods.

Not every resource ever uploaded should be stored on THW, but it shouldn't take itself so seriously that it discourages/prohibits others from being a part of it. This is a resource sharing site, not a springboard for professional careers.

//\\oo//\\

Note: Thanks to Crabby_Spider for dragging me back on topic... \\//xx\\//

 

[Kimbo]

The responses from Kimberly and En_Fuego exemplify the issue TWIF was bringing up.

They have valid points, but as TWIF pointed out THW isn't meant to be a site highlighting 'purely proffesional results' but rather a community of people with similar interests that are looking for the opportunity to display and improve their skills.

If only the best modders are allowed to upload, you alienate users from the opportunity to improve their skills and beneift THW as a whole. By doing this you discourage new users from participating. The best modders here started out doing shitty mods.

Not every resource ever uploaded should be stored on THW, but it shouldn't take itself so seriously that it discourages/prohibits others from being a part of it. This is a resource sharing site, not a springboard for professional careers.

//\\oo//\\

Note: Thanks to Crabby_Spider for dragging me back on topic... \\//xx\\//

No ones saying they HAVE to upload it to the resource section, and that if you suck, you get barred from hive, you can still post resources in threads at the forum as long as they arnt stolen.

sheesh

EDIT: Mods, or at least I encourage new users to utilized the forums instead of the database, as the database ISNT meant for critic, but only approval of "polished" resources. IF you want feedback, go to the forums, thats were most of the GOOD modders of today went.

 

[Crabby_Spider]

you can still post resources in threads at the forum as long as they arnt stolen.

There is way too much emphasis in the process here requiring users to prove a negative (arnt stolen). The reference Boris made earlier to dA was that stolen materials are removed if proven to be so, here you have to jump through hoops to appease some mod (and none of those efforts actually prove authenticity).

EDIT: Mods, or at least I encourage new users to utilized the forums instead of the database, as the database ISNT meant for critic, but only approval of "polished" resources. IF you want feedback, go to the forums, thats were most of the GOOD modders of today went.

This would be wonderful advice, if the forums got the attention that the resource sections do. Erebus (map by Boris and I) is in both the resource section and the map development thread, but has gotten very little feedback in the development thread. Nearly every update we've made has come from comments in the resource post. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine other users have similar experiences regarding their uploads. It should be the way you described, but theory doesn't match practice in this case.

As for my take on TWIF's comments. It's always a good idea to take a step back from things once in a while, and refresh your perspective. This is especially true when you find yourself taking things (and I mean anything) seriously. At 45, I'm not the typical user here. Hell, I can't play the game to save my life. But I do enjoy tinkering with things. It's fun, and a way to share an interest with Boris. Creating a resource and getting it to work well within a project is a creative outlet and enjoyable. The fun part gets lost when you try to share your efforts and instead of constructive criticism, you're met with accusation and/or hostility. It's just a game folks, and by the time most of you reach my age, none of this will matter.

//\\òó//\\

 

[anarchianbedlam]

~DA is actually an excellent example, as they don't immeadiately accuse you of plagiarism and demand that you prove you're the author. Essentially, here you're atomatically guilty of plagiarism if:
1) You have almost no rep/posts
2) Have no connections to any 'known' users
3) Don't have a video of you making what you claimed to have made which is also proven to have been recorded by you.

It's called "profiling suspects" And yes, we realize that it is not a foolproof system (look at paladon) but it certainly helps. No posts no rep and no friends are red flags if an amazing resource is uploaded because we havent seen what you are capable of yet and we have had WAY too many examples of trolls who do exactly that. create a profile and upload CnP. What is so hard to understand here? On the internet, where anonymity is the name of the game, you have to earn respect to be taken seriously. And you can earn that respect by POSTing your work in galleries or POSTing comments that are helpful (i.e. so we know that you actually know what the fuck you are talking about concerning "art/resources")

If you dont have that "video of yourself drawing the picture" then why dont you draw other pictures? start a thread, make a gallery of your work, show people... nay PROVE to people that you are, and can do, what you say you can.

~Resources are uploaded because another user may find them useful, not because they're another masterpiece.

If it looks like crap then its not useful now is it? Unless they use it as a button for a "crap" spell or to build a "crap" unit

.... and also this

 

[The World Is Flat]

*me dies from over thought spasm overhead.*

 

[Boris_Spider]

... you have to earn respect to be taken seriously...

That is a problem.

What is so hard to understand here?

If you dont have that "video of yourself drawing the picture" then why dont you draw other pictures? start a thread, make a gallery of your work, show people... nay PROVE to people that you are, and can do, what you say you can.

Another problem. Resources should be uploaded because they can be of use to others.

If it looks like crap then its not useful now is it?

It is up to the users to decide whether or not something "looks like crap".

//\\oo//\\

 

[anarchianbedlam]

That is a problem.

Yes, yes, you're right, of course, I can see how that would be. I mean, everyone knows respect is like air, its fucking everywhere, everyone should get respect. Does this hobo want to take out a $30k loan? SURE THING, I TRUST HIM. Should we let this sociopath out of jail? SURE because we respect his wishes.

Respect, and the Trust that comes with that respect is... its earned.... i really dont know how you dont understand this. You... you said you were 45 years old? And you dont know the how this game works?

Another problem. Resources should be uploaded because they can be of use to others.

1. We will not condone art theft, it infringes on the artistic liscence of the original creator, it is rude and immoral to claim other people's hard work as your own.
2. If someone really... REALLY wanted that CnP icon of yours that got rejected, then they can get it themselves. Seeing as CnP takes like, abso-fuckin-lutely no effort.

It is up to the users to decide whether or not something "looks like crap".

//\\oo//\\

And it is up to the moderators to decide if those resources (be they icons, models, etc) break any of the perfectly reasonable hive rules.