We need to get going...

[lightning brigade]

This is a cry out to our community, for we need to get into the realm of Starcraft quickly or we will die out. Quickly is relative however, i'd say we have a year, before we will be behind the curb. Basically, we need to stop thinking so much about warcraft 3, which isn't getting any newer, or being updated, and start thinking more about SC2, which is getting newer, but getting no attention. We have to host more services, such as contests, help, more sc2 forums and sub-forums.

It doesn't make sense that we should wait for I-don't-know-what and bide our time when there is no reason to wait. I understand that Hive 2.0 is under way, but for how long? We need to get these services under way or we will miss the boat. It won't be good, and we will only lose Hive in the mess. I have to understand what Ralle is waiting for, he released a resource section, but barely any maps are being uploaded, he made a changeable skin, but now neglects to do much else.

My suggestion is to follow the Mapster schematic, host regular map projects that are liable to be finished, update with the community findings. Another idea is to offer contests, services, and more support for the Starcraft side.
Even going beyond that, we can offer new forums for SC2, more resource sections, and just some better UI in general.

We have to focus all these things first, and then make the Hive 2.0 when we have a good foundry. Please Hive, don't let us die, we have so much potential as a community and a legacy, we need this support, or we will die out. The people who wish to remain in the past will kill us and move on eventually anyway, so don't let them hold us back before we've reached our full sc2 potential.

In hindsight, we will look back on this and say: I'm glad we did this, Sc2 needs this, and we helped it out. So what do you say, do we lay down to die? Or do we go and create a vital component of Sc2 mapping?

 

[Karawasa]

I think the boat left with SC2Mapster. No offense to THW, but you guys are stuck with WC3.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Let's swim after it =D

 

[doombringer]

Well I think some official small mapping contests would really help kick start the cumminity as well as maybe some melee comps.

Would love the hive to be more active

 

[Dr Super Good]

I did try and get the site to move towards SC2, and look what happened to me.

 

[Fussiler1]

I did try and get the site to move towards SC2, and look what happened to me.

boo hoo

How did that have anything to do with your demotion?

But anyways:

I think the boat left with SC2Mapster. No offense to THW, but you guys are stuck with WC3.

this nailed it.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

WCLOTD FTW!
I'm sure we'll get there eventually, maybe Ralle has something up his sleeve with 2.0?

 

[Rui]

I believe a similar thread has been posted before. In those cases, you are allowed to necropost, and I prefer that over creating numerous threads regarding the same thing.

As for «moving to StarCraft II», I don't see how we can get any closer to that than we are now. Ralle has created a resource section but because of the way Battle.Net now works, any resource-hosting website is pretty much useless; why spend time downloading it from a website when you can download it online, probably faster than you do here? How do mods really work? I've seen only the mods of the maps Blizzard has released, can't we use other maps'?
Until those are clarified, I think we're shooting in the dark.

~Thread moved

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Nonsense. Sc2mapster resources are in abundance and downloaded constantly, no one here seems to be that interested, which is fine, it is a war3 site.
Now if war IV had come out and people were like this... Then I'd be worried!

 

[Rui]

...Your point being?
How are SC2mapster's resources relevant? What I'm saying is that we need to figure out how mods work; for example, if mods submitted by other people are usable. Downloading resources is useless if you can simply use mods that already have them imported, and, in that case, we should be encouraging people to use those mods instead of downloading and constantly submitting new ones.
Ralle would have probably done it differently if Blizzard hadn't decided to control the whole thing with their servers.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I'd think some Sc2 competitions could seriously help there, weren't a few people trying to host some? Where'd they go? When a contest goes on, it boosts the vitality in it's modding section for a while, thus semi-constant contests help keep the activity up in their sections. They show the community has interest and at the same time get people working on resources.

 

[Linaze]

I still think we need to ask ourselves what we need a SC2 community for. Those of us who wish to move on to SC2 modding can always register at SC2Mapster, and those of us who wish to stay with WC3 simply stay here.

To me, it makes no sense to switch focus from WC3 to SC2, it'll simply mean less work being put into the WC3-Hive, resulting in a worse community for us WC3 modders.

 

[Dr Super Good]

WC3 modding is starting to die out. Battlnet load is 1/4 as much as it used to be and dropping steadilly.

 

[Deolrin]

Modding != Gaming.

 

[GhostThruster]

I agree with this, but I think we should also keep Wc3, since I mod Wc3 and play SC2.

 

[Linaze]

WC3 modding is starting to die out. Battlnet load is 1/4 as much as it used to be and dropping steadilly.

We need to remember that people play WC3 through other platforms than battle net.

Besides, like deolrin said, that battle net has less players doesn't mean that modding is starting to die out. But yes, obviously less and less players are modding the game, but switching focus from WC3 to SC2 quite obviously doesn't help WC3 modding out. Instead, we should focus more than ever on WC3 and getting new people into modding.

 

[Deolrin]

As far as I know, Garena is full as never before, with all the popular servers being completely full. Last time I checked was like two weeks ago.

 

[Adiktuz]

switching focus from WC3 to SC2 quite obviously doesn't help WC3 modding out. Instead, we should focus more than ever on WC3 and getting new people into modding.

I agree with that...

and yeah, more and more people are starting to play on Garena (those who play in computer shops for example)...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Too bad one can not count custom servers in WC3 as those are really full of pirates or people who do not realise that there is no reason not to play on battlenet.

SC2 can do amazing things that WC3 can not dream of. The number of WEHZ requests which are easy to do in SC2 is sad.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I agree with this, but I think we should also keep Wc3, since I mod Wc3 and play SC2.

[reaction="http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/153136-albums2842-picture43374.gif"]Okay people let's get something straight here
This has been quite annoying in the "transition," basically everyone thinks that supporting sc2 means that the site is going to completely abandon wc3. That is not the case, a new moddable blizzard game comes out and it's only logical that the site would support it, but just because it's being supported doesn't mean the old game will be completely removed from the site. Also I find it quite reactionary that when someone says something about Sc2 suddenly everyone comes in defending Wc3 or something like that. I do note that the OP probably wasn't taking the best route defining wc3 as the old (which of course sparks this sort of controversy and basically gets people into random arguments about why people should still mod wc3 or something like that) but saying "I think the site should have wc3 and sc2" isn't being productive, we technically have that atm - this "issue" is about sc2 modding, not wc3, we still have plenty of that going on.[/reaction]

Atm really I just feel the site needs some contests or that sort of thing to get more people interested in modding it - we've got the resource sections set up (in case people haven't noticed or something - a bit sad that big blue link only holds 5 resources atm) so what needs to get in gear is not the site, but the community (you get what I mean by that). If you have something worth sharing in sc2, share it. From what I've seen with contests (especially with the music contests, a forum which is generally pretty desolate) they really spark interest in their subject, at their end the contests normally spur some constant activity for at least like a month after - and with the variety of resource types for sc2, you can get them going fairly constantly.We have wc3 terraining contests, why not sc2 ones? We have wc3 modelling contests, why not sc2 ones? Actually, looking through their rules - I'm curious why no one's thought to make a sc2 model for a modelling contest, it's not like it specifically says it needs to be a wc3 resource and I'm sure some people would really appreciate the extra polies allowed in that.

 

[Devine]

If by dying out you mean less retards spamming the forums like hell, I'd say screw sc2.

 

[Mr. Bob]

As I told you in chat. This site is only really so popular because of the resources. SC2 mapster is users looking for maps to play. This site is for mappers looking for resources. And a community shift wont work. Until Blizzard releases art tools, there wont be art assets that matter. (Namely models.) So we wont get mappers looking for models here. Thus, no point in doing anything drastic. (Aka shifting to SC2 completely.)

 

[Dr Super Good]

SC2 mapster is users looking for maps to play.

Incorrect. It has more SC2 maping traffic than we have WC3 traffic. It hosts nearly every top polularity project as well as future ones. It also has like 100 threads a day in its various modding sections. My brother uses it to help with his mapping (well to help others mostly lol).

 

[Linaze]

I still don't see why we have to compete with SC2Mapster at all.
People who want to mod WC3 go here and people who want to mod SC2 go there.

We shouldn't switch focus to SC2 just like SC2Mapster shouldn't switch focus to WC3. Why? Because there's already a strong alternative in both cases, and it would also damage the community of the game the site's switching from.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Incorrect. It has more SC2 maping traffic than we have WC3 traffic. It hosts nearly every top polularity project as well as future ones. It also has like 100 threads a day in its various modding sections. My brother uses it to help with his mapping (well to help others mostly lol).

Thats my point. I think you misunderstand what I said.

In other words, its not asset development as much as just general mapping help etc. And ofc maps themselves. That's SC2mapster. Hive is completely different.

For instance, main focus of the Hive is things like models. No one comes here to download maps. And if they do, they leave shortly after joining.

That's why the major community events here are contests. Art contests.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Sc2's been out how long, and yet no one's successfully hosted a map contest?
I find that hard to believe that either no one's tried to host one or one hasn't gotten through. Why is that? I've heard people complaining about the high volume of crap maps on bnet 2.0 too...

 

[Dr Super Good]

WherewolfTherewolf, you should speak to people like Enjoy, Pyritie and especially Rui about a SC2 contest. Mentioning it here again and again will not help get one started as most people who are partaking in this thread lask the authority to start contests.

So why go into SC2? The question is why not. Modding wise its a sequal to WC3 and THW was the greatest support site for WC3 so why not SC2. Its good to be ambitios.

Imagine if google was not ambitios, we would only have google search, no google youtube, no chrome and no android. Yes sticking to one thing can be good, but it will not get you anywhere in the world unless you expand.

 

[Linaze]

Youtube, chrome, wave and various google products have each resulted in more money and thus a better google search.
SC2 Hive would not result in more money or a better WC3 Hive, instead it would take time and energy from the staff and more specifically Ralle to implement everything needed for the SC2 section. Time and energy that could be spent on creating a better WC3 section.

As for your "why not" question. As I've said, switching focus from WC3 to SC2 will damage the WC3 section while creating a SC2 section that there's no need for because of SC2Mapster already filling that role perfectly.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/sc2res.php

It's already there, it's not like it'd require any more work on Ralle's part as it's already implemented.

 

[Deolrin]

As I told you in chat. This site is only really so popular because of the resources. SC2 mapster is users looking for maps to play. This site is for mappers looking for resources. And a community shift wont work. Until Blizzard releases art tools, there wont be art assets that matter. (Namely models.) So we wont get mappers looking for models here. Thus, no point in doing anything drastic. (Aka shifting to SC2 completely.)

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
UDMod has a project with a gigantic pack of fully-functioning, good looking medieval models complete with a Diffuse, Specular and Emmissive map.
The only thing lacking is the ability to export particles from 3DSMax. There already is an exporter on 'Mapster.

 

[Linaze]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/sc2res.php

It's already there, it's not like it'd require any more work on Ralle's part as it's already implemented.

The SC2 section currently consists of one resource forum and two modding forums (plus the tutorial ones), now compare that to the WC3 section and tell me again how much time it will take to fully set up the SC2 section.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

It's not the amount of forums/databases that's the problem, it's the lack of resources to fill those forums/databases that is.
And Linaze, I point you to my older post - this isn't about removing wc3 from the site, this is about getting the sc2 section going, the only reason you're even arguing here is because you think sc2 means the death of wc3.

 

[Adiktuz]

personally I think improving the sc2 section can help the wc3 section... how? well something like this:

someone playing sc2 will go here coz of sc2 resources, then he saw the wc3 section, then he tells it to a friend who is a wc3 gamer...

 

[Linaze]

It's not the amount of forums/databases that's the problem, it's the lack of resources to fill those forums/databases that is.
And Linaze, I point you to my older post - this isn't about removing wc3 from the site, this is about getting the sc2 section going, the only reason you're even arguing here is because you think sc2 means the death of wc3.

I've never said I think SC2 means the death of WC3. I've said that SC2 results in less time spent on the WC3 section, which is bad, obviously.
The WC3 section has flaws that need attention, and you're not giving it attention by looking in the direction of SC2.

personally I think improving the sc2 section can help the wc3 section... how? well something like this:

someone playing sc2 will go here coz of sc2 resources, then he saw the wc3 section, then he tells it to a friend who is a wc3 gamer...

Yes, this is possible in some cases, I guess. Not cases enough to compensate for the lost time spent on the SC2 section, though.

 

[D a w n]

isnt it the job of the sc2 gamers to improve our sc2 section?? It's not about what we mods add for you , it's about what kind of threads/ressources you create to gain the attention of other people.
You got a sc2 forum, a sc2 tutorial forum and a resources forum. Now go and use it wisely.

 

[Linaze]

It's still up to the administration and moderation team to create forums, review resources, moderate forums, draw themes etc.

 

[D a w n]

about forums - people could always suggest some in this thread
about resources - how shall we review them when theren't any/only a few available here
about themes - we already got that sc2 terran theme and I dont see why we need more of them. We also survived with only 1 wc3 theme

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Survived =/
It's nice to know you guys care!
New themes etc would be very welcome...

 

[Linaze]

about forums - people could always suggest some in this thread
about resources - how shall we review them when theren't any/only a few available here
about themes - we already got that sc2 terran theme and I dont see why we need more of them. We also survived with only 1 wc3 theme

I'm not arguing about administration and/or staff not doing their job quite right. I'm arguing against the SC2 section in general.

 

[D a w n]

and that's what I do.

 

[Adiktuz]

I really don't see the point of arguing about the sc2 section, its not like it would kill the wc3 section...

and yeah, The Hive already has one, and the only problem is that there aren't much users who make resources for it...

 

[Mr. Bob]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
UDMod has a project with a gigantic pack of fully-functioning, good looking medieval models complete with a Diffuse, Specular and Emmissive map.
The only thing lacking is the ability to export particles from 3DSMax. There already is an exporter on 'Mapster.

I'm not denying the ability to actually get them into sc2. I'm saying until Blizzard releases their art tools, we wont see any large amount of downloadable assets (models etc) for SC2 like we did for WC3. Its just not going to happen. And, even if we do see some, they will be so few and far between it wont matter.

Also, that's not the point of the post to begin with.

 

[chobibo]

I agree about focusing more resources on sc2 than wc3, because wc3 won't have any more major updates for it's editor, unlike sc2. I'm not saying this because I like sc2, I don't even have the machine to run sc2. It's really hard to accept the reality of life lol.

The sc2 modding community is having a hard time because Blizzard ain't giving modders tools to work with, how the hell are they gonna maker resources, other than maps, if they don't release the necessary tools. We should pester Blizzard, that worked when we needed the hashtable, and they did in fact give us the hashtable, after a long long long long time (6 years?), when warcraft 3 modding has started dying.

 

[Deolrin]

Oh well.
Now, about the SC2 section, I actually agree with what DonDustin said. The main problem is that there are no resources there to go into the resource sections and not enough threads for a full-scale forum.
However, when the time comes, and enough people will be posting in the SC2 section, it will definitely have to be updated.

 

[L0ck]

Here goes L0ck...

Well, from what I can see... this is a stupid argument and commenting seems useless because neither side shall win.

Let me list the pros and cons of SC and what affect it might have on us on this site before I move to the big paragraph.

Since there is many people that seem to think Starcraft 2 is the way to go, I will list what it benefits and what it doesn't.

Before Big Paragraph

Pro's -

The editor has a lot more power then the editor for WC3.
It has very excellent textures and models...
It can select more units as well a better engine for speed.
I am not sure about the player limit but isn't it 16?
That is all I can list for now...

Con's -

Requirement's for a computer are extremely high and you need a super computer to enjoy SC2 to its full potential.
It is constantly laggy and seemingly leaking when you play anywhere online or in the menu.
What happens when there's a lightning storm...
WC3 has a lot more already explored and is way more moddable then SC2 is.
WC3 is a lot easier to understand.
WC3 has way more resources and modder's of all types for it.
There is still a community just hidden in other platforms and stuff.
A bad games list unlike wc3's

That is all there is needed to be said I think....

With that said, it would mean less people would be here for its difficulty to mod for SC2... less resources and ummmm don't know what more to say.

I do agree that there should be a section for SC2 but hive should stick with WC3 until WC4 just mainly because of the community.

I might say more but I currently forgot anything else I was going to say.

 

[Karawasa]

Oh well.
However, when the time comes, and enough people will be posting in the SC2 section, it will definitely have to be updated.

Just one problem, that time is never coming.

 

[Pyritie]

I'm hesitant to start any SC2 contests because I'm afraid not many people would enter because they don't know how to do them. What are things looking like in the tutorials or tools department? Are there enough tutorials for people to easily make models? Are there enough tools so people can export their models easily? Are there programs to preview skins?

That sort of thing.

The only contests I could see working right now is an icon contest and maybe a simple mapping or terraining contest, though I don't know how the terrainers feel about making something without a SC2 UTM.

 

[Deolrin]

I can say that our terraining contest at UDMod was a relative success. We got like 7 submissions, and we only needed one extension. Overall, the contest lasted two months, but UDMod is tiny compared to the Hive, so the situation here should be much more optimistic.
So yeah, a terraining contest wont be too bad.

 

[NightElf125]

Well, from what I can see... this is a stupid argument and commenting seems useless because neither side shall win.

Let me list the pros and cons of SC and what affect it might have on us on this site before I move to the big paragraph.

Since there is many people that seem to think Starcraft 2 is the way to go, I will list what it benefits and what it doesn't.

Before Big Paragraph

Pro's -

The editor has a lot more power then the editor for WC3.
It has very excellent textures and models...
It can select more units as well a better engine for speed.
I am not sure about the player limit but isn't it 16?
That is all I can list for now...

Con's -

Requirement's for a computer are extremely high and you need a super computer to enjoy SC2 to its full potential.
It is constantly laggy and seemingly leaking when you play anywhere online or in the menu.
What happens when there's a lightning storm...
WC3 has a lot more already explored and is way more moddable then SC2 is.
WC3 is a lot easier to understand.
WC3 has way more resources and modder's of all types for it.
There is still a community just hidden in other platforms and stuff.
A bad games list unlike wc3's

That is all there is needed to be said I think....

With that said, it would mean less people would be here for its difficulty to mod for SC2... less resources and ummmm don't know what more to say.

I do agree that there should be a section for SC2 but hive should stick with WC3 until WC4 just mainly because of the community.

I might say more but I currently forgot anything else I was going to say.

I agree. The site should definitely focus on the game that made it a success, WC3, till WC4 comes out. SC2 is always going to be harder to mod and make models for especially because of the greatly improved graphics and attention to detail the models need to look in-place in the SC2 world. Coupled with the cumbersome and very hard to learn SC2 Data Editor/Editor, it'll be a while before anything big happens.

 

[Rui]

We are not abandoning the Warcraft III section and we are not rushing for StarCraft II.
We have created a StarCraft II modifying section for people to use, and until we figure out how things work with this new system, I, for one, will recommend Ralle not to take any more steps forward.

Sc2's been out how long, and yet no one's successfully hosted a map contest?
I find that hard to believe that either no one's tried to host one or one hasn't gotten through. Why is that? I've heard people complaining about the high volume of crap maps on bnet 2.0 too...

The only map contest that would be okay to host at this time is a melee one, because there are not enough people with understanding of the editor at this time.
"Left 2 Die" and "Star Battle" are a few of the maps in Battle.Net that are worth playing. The rest of the top played ones don't reveal anything that you couldn't do in Warcraft III. The Footmen Frenzy maps out there are so bad that you better not evaluate the Galaxy Editor's capabilities by it.

(...)
So why go into SC2? The question is why not. Modding wise its a sequal to WC3 and THW was the greatest support site for WC3 so why not SC2. Its good to be ambitios.
(...)

I have always encouraged this website not to stick with only Warcraft III and support other games as well. As for supporting StarCraft II, the way I see it, has become a necessity more than an option.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
UDMod has a project with a gigantic pack of fully-functioning, good looking medieval models complete with a Diffuse, Specular and Emmissive map.
The only thing lacking is the ability to export particles from 3DSMax. There already is an exporter on 'Mapster.

??? Where?

The SC2 section currently consists of one resource forum and two modding forums (plus the tutorial ones), now compare that to the WC3 section and tell me again how much time it will take to fully set up the SC2 section.

I thought it was of public knowledge that all the forums in the Artist's Discussion category embrace StarCraft II as well?

EDIT:

I agree. The site should definitely focus on the game that made it a success, WC3, till WC4 comes out. SC2 is always going to be harder to mod and make models for especially because of the greatly improved graphics and attention to detail the models need to look in-place in the SC2 world. Coupled with the cumbersome and very hard to learn SC2 Data Editor/Editor, it'll be a while before anything big happens.

The problem is that there is nothing else to focus on Warcraft III, people are abandoning it, and there is no certainty that a Warcraft 4 will come out. If it did, how long would we hang on, how many members would we have lost by the time it came out? A third would have moved on to other games and a second third would have abandoned the gaming world due to age.
Also, if, in the future, that wild Data Editor proves to be manageable, which is bound to be by at least a few individuals, then Blizzard will most unlikely make it easier for Warcraft 4.