Warcraft : Humans

[LordPerenolde II]

You mean these?

Yes. So i see it works fine for who plays, but apparently not for who edits. Or it must be me who hasn't learned how to correctly import custom material over 1.29+ WE. Any suggestion would be appreciated at this point, expecially because I was going to weep like a child when I found out that I could set the real Warcraft 2 colors into my wc2 campaigns....only to realize I couldn't import custom material anymore and the maps were coming up with blank loading screens and so on.

The only thing that definitely seems like a bug so far is related to the lighting: if I'm on a micro mission (the ones where you're in a dungeon) and reload a save the lighting changes to how nighttime looks like when on a regular map.

I know, it happened to me too, at all times. Frustrating, isn't it? Never seemed to be able to fix that. Same with score screen player name, which changes to your profile username every time you load a saved game.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Oh god, seems like the issues just keep cropping up: the 9th mission seems fairly broken too where the AI just keeps throwing these warlock units at you and they just cast a spell that has a huge area of effect and it just kills your army. Catapults were already fairly bad (cavalry should counter I feel... it just doesn't if there's more than one) but this thing is just bafflingly frustrating, like how many clerics would be able to counter that mass DPS and you just can't micro out if it, it's just dumb.

Guess I'm out but I'll keep hoping for a more compatible (or balanced?) version.

Edit: And I somehow passed it, turns out you can absolutely micro out of those poison clouds if you can bait them and with that those boys are actually better than the goddamn catapults.

Haven't seen this. The trick about map 9 is to get to the bridge to the north. About the luck in enemy attacks which you mentioned before, i agree with you, it's just a matter of RNG for you to get attacked by Raiders multiple times or smaller units. It was like this in the og.

 

[Zaxx]

Haven't seen this. The trick about map 9 is to get to the bridge to the north. About the luck in enemy attacks which you mentioned before, i agree with you, it's just a matter of RNG for you to get attacked by Raiders multiple times or smaller units. It was like this in the og.

Well, if you care about my opinion then I think you should make a "good" version that throws the idea of being faithful to the original out the window and just makes these campaigns fun. I never played Warcraft 1 because putting up with that control scheme wasn't something I wanted to do but the more I play this mod the more I hate it. I really hate saying this because it feels bad to bash things that are available for free, especially when it's obvious that a lot of work went into it but it's just how it is.

RNG to this extent just shouldn't exist in an RTS campaign and even some of the unit design is so terrible that I feel they can single handedly turn people off from playing this. The catapults are especially infuriating with just no way to counter them because even their aiming seems random. It's just a terrible feeling to see that your knights or raiders are exploding into gibs from one shot with an area of effect that's just dumb. The moment I quit was when I realized that I'm literally save scumming these missions, something that I absolutely hate doing in any game I play. I very, very rarely have to resort to that in other RTS and even when I do it it might be just for a trickier micro encounter but here? The gameplay is just save scumming because one misplaced catapult shot can ruin your day. Terrible, unfair and badly balanced even on the medium difficulty.

And I emphasize this because I see that there was some discussion about the difficulty previously (with every word of it being right and acting like a smartass won't solve the issue I might add): juggling around unit numbers won't solve this because catapults are fundamentally broken, it's a unit design and RNG issue, not specifically a difficulty problem. Cavalry should be able to counter siege without getting damaged in an ideal situation, that's RTS 101.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Your frustration is typical, and an utter proof that I did a great job in remaking this game!
I think I've even reduced the radius of catapults one last time before releasing the last version of it.
Patterns for movements in wc1 were based on a squared grid. When a catapult shot landed in an empty spot it dealt much less splash damage than when hitting a unit or a building. Plus, shots had more random aim back then.
This game had no fog of war, so it required a lot of advance scouting and frequent care about monitoring enemy attack waves. Catapults never come together with enemy units so they can be sniped with songle fast units, like minor summons or Raiders/Knights with their own Fast Breeds researched. As for the save scam, Warcraft 1 belongs to that era of "trials and errors" videogames, where the player also had to have a knowledge of where things were positioned(kinda like games such as Doom or Final Fight for instance). Take for example the initial gold mines, which are out of your field of view and if you don't know where they are you waste vital time in looking for them. That's another model example.
Warcraft 2, on the other hand, it's completely different. It is technically a "patch" of the first one, nerfing catapults, giving new elements for defenses, etc.
I worked on redefining the attacks from the AI in my wc2 remake, in a way that they're no longer dependent on RNG.
Anyway thanks again for your feedback but please don't be excessively discouraged by your failed attempts. Also remember that Warcraft 1 only had a unit selection limit of 4, didn't have unit groups, a-click area attack, autocast options, commands chain, etc.

 

[Zaxx]

Your frustration is typical, and an utter proof that I did a great job in remaking this game!

Now that's a problem I feel because really what makes a remake good? In my opinion a remake is good if it manages to transfer the original work over in a form that is enjoyable for a newer audience. This isn't that, hell I don't think anyone ever truly enjoyed playing this and the people who do finish it are just completionists who can't put a bad game down. Considering your attitide if you wanted it like this, if the whole thing is supposed to be a joke on how bad the original game was then cool I guess, I mean it's a free mod, it doesn't even have to be playable.

I just can't help but feel that this remake is a giant waste if that was the intention. It's not like we're swimming in good RTS campaigns to play, nearly nobody has played the original Warcraft 1 because its controls are jank so I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few people looking for an experience that tells the same story with not terrible gameplay. Like you mention the fog of war as something you were faithful too and I just have to ask what was the point? What it makes me do is I start the map, scout a bit, find the goldmine, then restart the map because I wasted way too much time finding the gold mine. Then once I start the mission properly I scout again so that I actually see where the enemy is coming from and then I'll have to find the obvious choke point on the map and hope that catapults won't blow me to shreds until I make enough archers to win. It's really bad, just leaving in the Warcraft 3 fog of war would have improved the gameplay tremendously. The same goes for that weird radius around your base that only lets you build stuff in a very limited way: letting me to build a forward base would speed up the gameplay greatly.

As for the catapults: if this is the toned down version then I can't imagine how bad the old one was. Just to illustrate things here's a typical "okay gotta restart the mission" scenario (from the Orc campaign though):

A raider on half HP without armor upgrades has no chance at getting close to one lonely siege unit so that one catapult (with two more on the way) basically has me at this point. There is nothing to do here, that one catapult can one shot every single raider I send in its direction because that one catapult just happens to hit me no matter what. And I don't know for sure that this won't happen again if I restart so I have to conclude that since this mod is like 10 years old and you never bothered to fix fundamentally broken stuff like this you're just not respecting the player's time and you want them to just run against the wall until they luck it out. That's insulting, a lonely, defenseless siege unit trying to attack my miners should be a giant tactical mistake from the AI after I notice it but nope, nothing to do.

So no, sadly StarCraft Mass Recall this isn't, I've already removed the map files, I gave a rating that I think is very fair after 10 years and I'll just go and replay War 2 Battle.net Edition for the nth time instead. If you intentionally wanted to make garbage then you did do a great job though.

 

[Zaxx]

Anyway just to add a bit of constructive feedback here's how you actually fix the catapults instead of pointlessly messing around with radiuses: you give resistance to their shots to cavalry. Siege units usually serve two purposes in RTS games: to quickly destroy buildings and to punish an opponent that is overly committed to infantry. Cavalry on the other hand should shit on them since there should be no chance in hell for a siege unit to damage a cavalry unit that's in motion.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Alright, your video seemed strange, so i went to take a look on the editor and....whoops!

This is the human catapult in the Orc Campaign. All other Catapult types have their range set to 140 as I mentioned before(it was higher in previous versions, but not as high as this). I must have mistaken the range with the damage, or it must have been the last thing I was changing, and i mind-tripped, or I must have done it quickly, or being too tired, etc. Anyway, all Catapults in the human campaign are already adjusted to 140. This is the only model that was either unchanged(but i dubt it, since it was way easier to escape a boulder than you shown even by running straight into the catapult like you did). So I changed it now. Gonna re-upload it. Thank you sir! You are....1 star! xDD
Anyway why didn't you notice this difference between the orc and human campaign, since you played the human as well?

As for the rest:

In my opinion a remake is good if it manages to transfer the original work over in a form that is enjoyable for a newer audience.

In my opinion a remake is good if it manages to make the player feel how it was like playing that game the way it was, and in the case of someone who grew up with it in his childhood, to make an actual trip down memory lane and get back the feels.

Considering your attitide if you wanted it like this, if the whole thing is supposed to be a joke on how bad the original game was then cool I guess,

The original game was bad, but it was a milestone in its genre, which was perfectioned by its successor Warcraft 2.
Take for example Wolfestein 3D, it is the grandfather of FPS, overshadowed only by its successor Doom, which perfectioned the core genre back in the days.

Like you mention the fog of war as something you were faithful too

I meant the black mask, not the Fog of War(which instead is the grey layer introduced in wc2 that covers the explored area).

and I just have to ask what was the point? What it makes me do is I start the map, scout a bit, find the goldmine, then restart the map because I wasted way too much time finding the gold mine. Then once I start the mission properly I scout again so that I actually see where the enemy is coming from and then I'll have to find the obvious choke point on the map and hope that catapults won't blow me to shreds until I make enough archers to win. It's really bad,

The point is that this was Warcraft 1. Warcraft 1 metas were mass Archers and mass major summons. It's not that hard to figure out once you get going with the missions, expecially for a 9 years old kid like me back when Warcraft first came out.

just leaving in the Warcraft 3 fog of war would have improved the gameplay tremendously.

Are you telling me that you'd prefer to renounce to the permanent scouting so to get blown up outta nowhere all of a sudden?

The same goes for that weird radius around your base that only lets you build stuff in a very limited way: letting me to build a forward base would speed up the gameplay greatly.

....but unfortunately warcraft 1 didn't work like that. That's part of its core gameplay mechanic.

A raider on half HP without armor upgrades has no chance at getting close to one lonely siege unit so that one catapult (with two more on the way) basically has me at this point. There is nothing to do here, that one catapult can one shot every single raider I send in its direction because that one catapult just happens to hit me no matter what. And I don't know for sure that this won't happen again if I restart so I have to conclude that since this mod is like 10 years old and you never bothered to fix fundamentally broken stuff like this you're just not respecting the player's time and you want them to just run against the wall until they luck it out. That's insulting, a lonely, defenseless siege unit trying to attack my miners should be a giant tactical mistake from the AI after I notice it but nope, nothing to do.

And all of this BS because you didn't notice that something was straight out wrong between this and the human campaign, which you played and threw behindì only to end up giving a 1 star rating to something isolated(because you didn't even test your own catapults against enemy knights if this is the case) that you could have simply raised in a single row and said "is this supposed to be normal?" So that I, like i just did, would have checked, found out and FIXED. But nope, over the insane job i single-handedly did over 8 years you put it down because of your opinion about how a remake has to be done.

So no, sadly StarCraft Mass Recall this isn't, I've already removed the map files, I gave a rating that I think is very fair after 10 years and I'll just go and replay War 2 Battle.net Edition for the nth time instead. If you intentionally wanted to make garbage then you did do a great job though.

Spare me the sad story and the passive-aggressive. Thanks for the 1star. I can live with that. And thanks again for getting me to fixing the problem; now at least the next guy won't come and complain about it. Peace.

 

[Zaxx]

Spare me the sad story and the passive-aggressive. Thanks for the 1star. I can live with that. And thanks again for getting me to fixing the problem; now at least the next guy won't come and complain about it. Peace.

I'm not being passive aggressive, you just seem to be having a hard time at receiving criticism that in more than one way is also aimed at the original game it seems so I really don't see why you're taking this so personally. Yes, the mod is terrible but I did say that if the goal was to make something that's intentionally terrible then it's fine and you did admit that you were doing just that. You know, your aim was to recreate a bad game that only has some historic value nowadays. Now I don't understand why anyone would do that since the original game is the one that possesses that historic value, not a recreation of it and when it comes to the original game you can pick it up on GOG and there's even a fanmade mouse helper mod that makes it slightly more playable. If anyone wants to experience Warcraft 1 as a piece of gaming history then there is nothing better than the original.

Anyway I'm pretty sure that there will always be a next guy since even the reduced range of catapults is quite bad (which is why I didn't notice the difference between the two campaigns, I think that should have been obvious). I can really only suggest you listen to the criticism and rework this into something that plays better because every single playthrough I can find on Youtube basically hates the whole thing. Even the lack of polish itself and the fact that you left in some really nasty mistakes (thanks for fixing this btw, I'll have another go at the orc campaign once the new version drops) shows that you simply didn't have enough people playing and chances are that was caused by the gameplay not being relevant to "modern" WarCraft (meaning the expected gameplay of a War3 mod).

So don't take this the wrong way, I just wanted to give you my honest opinion so that maybe it's valuable feedback and I'll get the "WarCraft 1 under WarCraft 3" experience I wanted one day.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

I'm not being passive aggressive, you just seem to be having a hard time at receiving criticism that in more than one way is also aimed at the original game it seems so I really don't see why you're taking this so personally. Yes, the mod is terrible but I did say that if the goal was to make something that's intentionally terrible then it's fine and you did admit that you were doing just that. You know, your aim was to recreate a bad game that only has some historic value nowadays. Now I don't understand why anyone would do that since the original game is the one that possesses that historic value, not a recreation of it and when it comes to the original game you can pick it up on GOG and there's even a fanmade mouse helper mod that makes it slightly more playable. If anyone wants to experience Warcraft 1 as a piece of gaming history then there is nothing better than the original.

Anyway I'm pretty sure that there will always be a next guy since even the reduced range of catapults is quite bad (which is why I didn't notice the difference between the two campaigns, I think that should have been obvious). I can really only suggest you listen to the criticism and rework this into something that plays better because every single playthrough I can find on Youtube basically hates the whole thing. Even the lack of polish itself and the fact that you left in some really nasty mistakes (thanks for fixing this btw, I'll have another go at the orc campaign once the new version drops) shows that you simply didn't have enough people playing and chances are that was caused by the gameplay not being relevant to "modern" WarCraft (meaning the expected gameplay of a War3 mod).

So don't take this the wrong way, I just wanted to give you my honest opinion so that maybe it's valuable feedback and I'll get the "WarCraft 1 under WarCraft 3" experience I wanted one day.

Yes, you're right. There isn't much freedom of creativity by having so much limited amount of material to work with, let alone space to move around with. Warcraft 2, on the other hand, is much more flexible and can be modeled much more freely. I think you're also right when you said that I wanted to replicate how terrible the original game was. However, our argument seems split only because of personal opinion rather than real criticism, as you said. Criticism is good when is constructive, but when you have your own vision of how this remake had to be done and i have mine there is little to come to an agreement with.

 

[Nii Rubra]

Hello there! Uh, I was reading through the comments for these, noticed some of them were kind of aggravating? So I felt like logging in to say something nice.

I really love these campaigns, I played both of your Wc1 remakes back when they came out. I came back to warcraft recently because I really missed it (gods, managing patch versions is a pain, thanks Blizz...), and I knew that I had to replay your Warcraft 1 campaigns -- imagine my surprise to learn that you had updated them with an enhanced mode... and that you released a Warcraft 2 Remake! hahaha.

I beat both Wc1 campaigns on enhanced/hard and I loved what you did with them, I'm always fond of faction asymmetry in strategy games, so it was nice to see the two factions slowly diverge and begin to resemble their more modern counterparts, I mean Wc1 is what it is, y'know, it is a product of the times, the factions were kind of mirror-ey (except for a few places) because that's what RTS games were like for the most part, it's okay, but I like how you gave them that iconic sense of identity of theirs, and you did it in a way that makes them feel completely different in terms of gameplay, without deviating too much from Wc1. I found it interesting how they differed even at the most basic level, like with the Humans the bread and butter was Footmen and Archers of course, I found myself engaging Orc Spearmen with my Footmen (Defend), and covering them with my archers, but when I hopped on to the Orc campaign, I did the opposite, Grunts vs Footmen, Spearmen vs Archers, because they were relatively better, I thought it was pretty cool how that's representative of these factions, the Humans work together and cover for each other's weaknesses, the Orcs enforce their physical might on a 1 on 1 fight.

The optional objectives were fun, there was always a sense of mystery as to what I was gonna get as a reward (speaking of which, what do you get for slaying Medivh without losing anyone? I never got to see the message because the mission ended right after), though to be honest I never quite figured out how to do the last one for each campaign, the sorta speedrun one for the final levels, but hey, at least you unlocked the secret levels during the anniversary of the remake, so I got to enjoy that too, those levels were pretty cool, I like how they felt like a mix of the map design philosophy of Wc1 with some touched up looks from Wc3.

I'm currently playing your Warcraft 2 remakes, those are super fun too, I love the enhanced mode, I wish there were more levels so that I could play with the subfactions more hahaha, they are so interesting. I think you mentioned that you're working on Beyond the Dark Portal, right? I'm looking forward to that! Shame that there would be no point in remaking Warcraft 3 in Warcraft 3 haha, I just wish there was more stuff for you to remake. But yeah, thanks for all your efforts, Perenolde.

Oh, right, almost forgot, I noticed that the ability Dark Ritual, for the Necrolytes, got the default R hotkey, and Raise Dead also uses R, so those conflict, minor oversight but I figured you'd be interested in knowing, if you end up updating the campaigns again.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

These are indeed some insightful thoughts! Thank you for your feedback!
I was heavily grinding for Starcraft 2 Mastery Achievements in Heart of the Swarm back at the time, so I got inspired into adding some optional objective which would require a bit of extension in the levels. Also the Hard mode reflects somehow Starcraft 2 Brutal difficulty; an increasing of skills meant for advanced apm players who would like some more challenge in an old game like Warcraft 1.

(speaking of which, what do you get for slaying Medivh without losing anyone? I never got to see the message because the mission ended right after)

I don't remember but most likely it is the same as when you kill all brigands in the Garona mission of the Orc campaign = nothing. It only counts towards total completion of the bonus objectives, which unlocks the Secret maps in the end.

I wish there were more levels so that I could play with the subfactions more hahaha, they are so interesting.

I know, right? Originally the idea was to let the player choose a subfaction for the whole campaign with a dedicated Act to replace the first 4 maps, but that required waaaaay too much original content. It was not in my ideas and I honestly didn't want to put myself through that.

I think you mentioned that you're working on Beyond the Dark Portal, right? I'm looking forward to that!

Yes, but that's gonna be later. At the moment I have eyes on ToD Secret Campaigns.

Oh, right, almost forgot, I noticed that the ability Dark Ritual, for the Necrolytes, got the default R hotkey, and Raise Dead also uses R, so those conflict, minor oversight but I figured you'd be interested in knowing, if you end up updating the campaigns again.

Pity. I wish I knew that before. Feels too minor to require a whole new update because of it.

 

[Nii Rubra]

Ohhh! So the secret campaigns are not Beyond the Dark Portal? I see, I misinterpreted that, okay, that's awesome, hahahaha, I got even more stuff to look forward to then.

 

[JCarrill0]

@LordPerenoldeII,
Do you have a "To-Do List" for these since 2.8 or would you say these would be your final versions?

 

[LordPerenolde II]

@LordPerenoldeII,
Do you have a "To-Do List" for these since 2.8 or would you say these would be your final versions?

I think this is definitely the final version.

 

[fordaperson]

i cant pass this level, theres too many ogres ......

 

[Mox4]

I've only just started, but this looks fantastic.

If I do have a few nitpicks that are not remaster-oriented, it's some of the models and voicelines. Like, why does the human peasant use Blood Elf Engineer sounds? And personally I'd've preferred the original Footman model as opposed to this remade horny looking guy.

Also, on the note of semantics, I think what would make away with a lot of these comments of "this doesn't play well currently" is calling it a port or a remaster instead of a remake. A remake implies that it's being brought up to current (or at least War3) standards, whereas you're trying to be as close to the original vision as possible, just in the much more playable and visually pleasing Warcraft 3 engine (as opposed to fucking about with Dosboxes and whatnot if you wanted to play the og).

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Like, why does the human peasant use Blood Elf Engineer sounds?

Because it's the wc1 model, which has a younger and sharper look, not the one of a dumb farmer.
The horned*(go to horny jail! -bonk!-) looking guy has more resemblance to the original Footman from Warcraft 1. The only issue with the model is that the portrait doesn't talk.

A remake implies that it's being brought up to current (or at least War3) standards,

Indeed. You can't select a max of 4 units, you can issue right-click/A+click commands, you can use autocast functions, units have acquisition range, you can issue chain-commands, make your units patrol, etc. etc. So yep, that's a remake if you ask me.

 

[JStryker47]

So I just recently downloaded this and it does feel like a great improvement over the original. Except that it's still incredibly hard. Like, the enemy just keeps on attacking me again and again and again, and won't spare me a minute of breathing room. I keep losing half of my troops, fighting off one attack, only to get attacked again, before I can even begin to replace them - even when I do have the resources to spare. (I can't believe how expensive everything was, in the first two games! 400 gold for ONE WORKER UNIT?! Christ!)

Also, there's a problem with the briefing speech, where the voice will sometimes randomly play during the mission. And sometimes, it doesn't play at all.

Edit: Okay, I think the briefing speech problem may have been caused by my playing it on Reforged. When I play it in the original game, it seems to fix that particular problem.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

So I just recently downloaded this and it does feel like a great improvement over the original. Except that it's still incredibly hard. Like, the enemy just keeps on attacking me again and again and again, and won't spare me a minute of breathing room. I keep losing half of my troops, fighting off one attack, only to get attacked again, before I can even begin to replace them - even when I do have the resources to spare. (I can't believe how expensive everything was, in the first two games! 400 gold for ONE WORKER UNIT?! Christ!)

Also, there's a problem with the briefing speech, where the voice will sometimes randomly play during the mission. And sometimes, it doesn't play at all.

Edit: Okay, I think the briefing speech problem may have been caused by my playing it on Reforged. When I play it in the original game, it seems to fix that particular problem.

Hey thanks for the deep feedback!
If you're playing in Hard mode yes, it is strictly for hardcore apm players & connoisseurs of the game's metas and maps.
The price of units in wc1 is directly proportional to the income you get, and unlike my wc2 remake, this economy system has not been well calibrated(you gather gold at a slightly faster rate).
Also, I'm not sure which version of the game you're running the remake on. It is advised for you not to use 1.29 or higher as some script malfunctions or faulty custom material are likely to happen.

 

[JStryker47]

Well, originally, I was playing on Reforged because someone told me that custom campaigns were playable on it now. I didn't know I could download the original game, until I saw your signature.

I also didn't know about the rewards for completing secondary objectives in hard mode, until watching part of Jayborino's playthrough. Before that, I was playing it entirely on medium. (Is that a feature in the WC2 remake too? I've downloaded that, but haven't tried it yet.)

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Well, originally, I was playing on Reforged because someone told me that custom campaigns were playable on it now. I didn't know I could download the original game, until I saw your signature.

I also didn't know about the rewards for completing secondary objectives in hard mode, until watching part of Jayborino's playthrough. Before that, I was playing it entirely on medium. (Is that a feature in the WC2 remake too? I've downloaded that, but haven't tried it yet.)

No, there's no Hard Mode in my Wc2 remake but there is an Enhanced Mode, which lets you play the campaigns with subfactions having their own slightly original techtree, plus some different starting conditions(or objectives) for some maps, etc.

 

[JStryker47]

Ah... well, that certainly promises to be fun. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[UnknDoomer]

I was heavily grinding for Starcraft 2 Mastery Achievements in Heart of the Swarm back at the time, so I got inspired into adding some optional objective which would require a bit of extension in the levels. Also the Hard mode reflects somehow Starcraft 2 Brutal difficulty; an increasing of skills meant for advanced apm players who would like some more challenge in an old game like Warcraft 1.

Well. Started to play it on hard today, human campaign. Just in case. I've completed Starcraft II on expert with most of the additional things, > 70%, Reforged on hard as well and same goes for StarCraft: Mass Recall, played several TPS/RTS titles too, including old one, and few custom campaigns.

So.

Mission 4.

By this mission things became rather pointless in case of optional quests, I presume. You have just 6 minutes to reach the hero and must loose zero units. While it's extra easy to loose units here, no matter how fast you manually heal them, try to run, or you ether will have no time to complete the mission, if you will proceed too slowly.

i cant pass this level, theres too many ogres ......

@fordaperson, the only way to manage it, as well as mission in overall, is hit & run back strategy, it seems. And repeat it. Again and again. Which leads to sort of zero fun, not difficult, in a proper way if you will compare it with some similar classic missions, rather just annoying, but it works.



I've managed to complete it with 3 barely alive archers and hero with 5 HP at the end point, cleaning out the whole map (perhaps it would be a reason to add an a bonus item for hero later or something, if player will manage such thing). Possible, but took several save / load sequences, in case hero regulary dies from one hit.



Also. This moment seems to be possible to complete only if you will left most of the units behind the gates and later distract enemies by a hero. Otherwise they will just die in seconds.

I didn't read whole topic from start, mostly latest posts, but, when it comes to specific gameplay aspects, rather can agree with most of contras points that @Zaxx mentioned, ever by counting myself more / less hardcore and "old-school" player in this case.

WCI, in opposite to WCII, which has like 3 actual reimaginations now on top of all, or Diablo I and it's mods, like The Hell, or ever old platforming games from Blizzard, like Blackthorne / Lost Vikings, have a lack of popularity today, as well as it been several years ago (and probably always been), that's for sure, and it's good to see someone spent some much time in attempt to sort of "bring it to life", but, still, problematic aspects might stays in.

because every single playthrough I can find on Youtube

Will try to add one more on top, playthrough i.e., if I'll manage to complete this, after all. Playing on patch 1.28.5, BTW, classic game.

 

[UnknDoomer]

Mission 6.



Here things just unbalanced. Enemy keeps attacking, while catapults can destroy any building or a squad of units in one hit. Own catapults can destroy own units... Armor upgrades gives zero effect. If you will build a squad of, say, 9 catapuls then you can handle some things, but not an a bunch of scorpions.

Anyhow. Here goes repetive try, untill it would be possible to manage to combine enough arches and catapults, while, each time while enemy catapuls attacks the base, player catapults can go one on one on it, so usually they both kill each other.

The next major thing goes to block enemy goldmine on north, which will lead to a fact that attacks will mostly be stopped. Until that there is 3 other gold mines around in total.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

First off let me tell you this:
I watched the first 10 minutes of your first video and I got the idea of your problem, which is baseline gameplay.
You show little knowledge of it, despite having mentioned all those titles you've played.
I mentioned "Brutal" Starcraft 2, but on your post you mentioned "Expert". Now, I don't know what you mean by "Expert" but I can guarantee you wouldn't get anywhere on "Brutal" Starcraft 2(let alone on my "Hard" wc1 remake) with your showcased level of gameplay.
1) You CLICK on waypoint button, then assign it to the gold mine/ground, while you could just right-click anywhere you want whilst having the involved structure selected.
2) you send your Footmen into the fog war without "attack ground" and attack enemies by manually right clicking on them. Both options are wrong in this instance. While exploring you must use a+right click so that your units can automatically engage spotted enemies. If you don't, enemies will strike first while your units are walking by and picking single targets the way you do may lead into waste of precious health and/or a whole attack party. Not to mention being time-consuming in advanced missions.

These 2 factors are all I need to target the core of your issues, no matter how hard you claim the maps are.
Speaking of which, don't play Hard Mode in your current gameplay conditions. It's not meant for that type of level.
Play Normal Mode. It's the most comparable Warcraft 1 gameplay experience there is.
As for the rest:
Armor upgrades meant nothing against catapults in wc1.
In map 4 I manage to finish the level without losing a single unit. Even without the autocast Healing spell(which I purposefully disabled for that map) it is quite easy to go through.
1) Learn to use hotkeys
2) hotkey groups of Footmen+Clerics, and Archers separately.
3) Send everyone together by moving Footmen first, Archers afterwards and Clerics behind, in that order. Step by step.
4) Back up Footmen upon detecting enemies so that arrow volleys may do the trick, then engage with Footmen(once again a+right click will do), and use hotkey E with clerics to spam healing on the wounded(look at their health in the selection screen below).
5) Repeat step 3 and 4 until you get to Lothar and beyond, but practice and learn to speed up each step, as having quick reaction and micro management becomes a key factor from this map on. The timer is also there to help you through this learning process, not just as a challenge.

When you get Lothar you can use his abilities to buff your units and be on the driver seat for the rest of the mission.
Map 6 is quite easy, as you start with a large force(once again hotkey everyone into separate groups, get to your village with a+right click and you'll be fine).
Scouting is key here, so explore the map all around the lake to the north of your village and you'll be able to not only spot incoming enemy units but also Catapults, and that will give you time to snipe them with single Knights, which you'll need to send far out(preferably with upgraded speed from the Stables) then back in for eventual healing.

All of this based on your current report.

A single tip on top of everything: improve your fundamentals! Otherwise stick with Normal Mode.

 

[UnknDoomer]

I mentioned "Brutal" Starcraft 2, but on your post you mentioned "Expert". Now, I don't know what you mean by "Expert" but I can guarantee you wouldn't get anywhere on "Brutal" Starcraft 2(let alone on my "Hard" wc1 remake) with your showcased level of gameplay.

It's "Brutal", it's local name. Well, what can I say. Don't be so sure about it. And this person talks about criticism...

These 2 factors are all I need to target the core of your issues, no matter how hard you claim the maps are.

I mentioned it in rather matter of compare and on top of, which with things mentioned, you probably can see how things actually are from random average player. Which has experience, but also has long going habits, let's call them such, which are, as a parts of this campaign, stretching from the distant past by one reason, or another.

Part of it, by the way, in case we talk about old titles, also was about giving a try and, in few cases, only after you give a significant number of attempts, you will get the right way to deal with it. That the key in my opinion. Nowadays... most of people just not ready / interested in such approach, I guess.

Speaking of which, don't play Hard Mode in your current gameplay conditions. It's not meant for that type of level.
Play Normal Mode. It's the most comparable Warcraft 1 gameplay experience there is.

Well. I prefer do not change things in the middle. As well as I don't see so much issues in it. So. Will see how far I can actually get by with it. As result at the end point, if I'll able to beat it in such conditions, then other folks will have way less space to complain after - you just can show them my videos and tell that it can be beaten ever without single hotkeys using and etc. I'm finding that an as interesting challange, or, by other hand, perhaps, I'm just one of those weird "completionist", that been mentioned here before .

Mission 7.



Similar to six. Gain gold from 3 goldmines, protect the base, this time it's rather better deal with catapults by single knights. After a bunch of summoners can be created and sent on south, where they can attack in waves and later block enemy goldmine.

Mission 8.



Optional quests doesn't mean you can't loose units. Actually you can loose most of them, just be sure that fire elementals don't kill them. As for enemy hero - it's just possible to run and kill him, due to a fact that all heroes is weak in overall in this campain. As for the his summoned demon - it can be ignored in further, in case after some time he will just dissapear. After that, similar to mission 4, hit & run strategy might be applied, if some enemy units still alive. For this it's basically enough to have only 3, or ever 1, if you want, archers left alive.

Mission 9.



First description says that it doesn't allow any damage from catapults, but if you will read the details of it carefuly, then you will notice that it goes about alive units, so catapults doesn't count, you may loose as many of them as you want. So similar to mission six strategy can be applied, with the difference that now it's required to put catapults upfront and archers behind them.

Mission 10.

Nothing actually hard here. Just keep in my mind that demons can slay all of your units in second, but can die fast if you attack them by catapults. So cross the first bridge. Then near second one summon some units. Usem as disctraction. Kill some demons. Proceed to the base, destroy all, but left about 2 altars. At the time spot of ~ 3 minutes left it would be possible to complete the optional quest.

Mission 11.



This is more tricky one and, it seems, hardest in campaign by this moment. The only units that can handle enemy hordes is archers, with a bit of support of healers. Any other kind of units is useless here, as well there is not enough time to build up the summoners. So the key is to make as many archers as you can and fast as you can, which leads to a fact that it better to have two barracks. Same goes for workers. Regular number wouldn't be enough here. After group will be huge enough there is point exist to proceed to north, which must make enemy to attack from only one direction, not three.

As for the optional quest. It can wait till you will be near the end of the mission. While one base will be out and few enemies left on second, then you can safely build summoners.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

I must have misunderstood your post as a rant about the difficulty of the campaign(I got used to, in this thread, you know), so I'm sorry if I seemed a bit on the defensive tone.

perhaps, I'm just one of those weird "completionist

...to say the least, I might add!

First description says that it doesn't allow any damage from catapults, but if you will read the details of it carefuly, then you will notice that it goes about alive units, so catapults doesn't count, you may loose as many of them as you want. So similar to mission six strategy can be applied, with the difference that now it's required to put catapults upfront and archers behind them

Yeah, I changed the parameters for this objective with the last patch.
You can also send Scorpions after the Catapults without fear to fail it.

 

[UnknDoomer]

I must have misunderstood your post as a rant about the difficulty of the campaign(I got used to, in this thread, you know), so I'm sorry if I seemed a bit on the defensive tone.

It seems. As you can see I've already passed 11 missions in two days on hard with all bonus goals, without much issues, without hotkeys and stuff.

Playlist:

In compare to things I've seen in some custom campaign before, both old and rather fresh, there isn't too much so specific to complain about here, as I can say. Contras points are clear enough and basically might be fair from one point of view or another, but by other hand, I suppose, some people didn't actually see what can be count as truly difficult, yet still beatable.

 

[UnknDoomer]

Mission 12.

There are basically two ways to deal with this mission. Hard and slow one, which, I suppose, would be similar to M11 and mass arches, which is not be a problem, in case there 3 goldmines near by and first has 50000 gold. And easy and fast one, kinda easter egg kind, which will only requre to act without delays.

Magicians, if optional quest been compeleted before and, basically, if you have played on hard in addition to, have an option to cast invisibility. All you need is:

1. Build two buildings.
2. Learn specific cast, that cost 3000 gold.
3. Take 1 knight and 1 magician a bit upfront. Accurate when invisibility will be available cast it and make knight go to the ~ top north-west of the map.
4. Make one hit on the mentioned building and mission will be completed in less then 5 minutes.

Mission 13 (secret).

All is required here is a hero, his ability, shock wave, and 1 healer. Combining those two it's possible to complete if not the whole, but most part of the mission, by hit & run back method.

 

[UnknDoomer]

Mission 14 (secret).

I, once again, have an issue with recording here, similar that was with mission six, so it this case only last ~ 7,5 minutes of mission been covered. Anyhow, it gives the base idea.



1. After base is reached, all major buildings been moved on south-east. It will not only give some time at end of the mission, it will also allow to produce units without problems, as well don't care about defence on 3 fronts.
2. First take gold and lumber on south, then on the east and at the end on north (gold only). If start from north then workers will just die and units will be disctacted to protect them.
3. Archers save the day once again. All units already have all upgrades.
4. There is no point to produce any healers.
5. Moving 1 knigts on the north hill and another 1 knight to the south hill allow to protect the base from catapults, that will be moving there.
6. Some walls better be removed.

So. Campaign gone success in 3 days. As well others now, I guess, will have way less place to get mad and complain, because It's just the matter of right bullet points, no matter how "pro" / "old-school" you are. If I was able to manage it, then you can too. Moreover, combining all

I can guarantee you wouldn't get anywhere

I watched the first 10 minutes of your first video and I got the idea of your problem, which is baseline gameplay.

Speaking of which, don't play Hard Mode in your current gameplay conditions. It's not meant for that type of level.

spots, at the end point you actually don't ever need to know / use "baselines".

Same also can be applied to regular Warcraft III, due to a fact up to several of it's missions, no matter Classic or Reforged, will have the same aspects, if you will play on hard.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Well, glad I was wrong in the end, although you could have saved reproaches, as it looked quite taunting no matter how negative I was on my side.
Thank you for your feedback and review. I wasn't really on top of the mood with the bonus maps creation, but I did it with the orcs, so I had to do it with humans.
Looking forward to hearing your insights about the orc campaign!

 

[UnknDoomer]

although you could have saved reproaches, as it looked quite taunting no matter how negative I was on my side.

Well, I've just quoted this at the end as additional point, so that, probably, people would stop compalining after all and go try instead. There was no "reproaches" in mind in this case, while, perhaps, it might look so.

Looking forward to hearing your insights about the orc campaign!

I probably will take a break for a while now to deal with other stuff, but will see, might back to it a bit sooner or later.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

huh i remember when i played this back in January 2021 so many buildings for humans looked different the archer and the conjurer and orcish unit were completely redesigned very impressive work i like the new models a lot especially the daemon one and the orcish tower now i changed a bit in the campaign the change is a simple cost reduction... now what i want to say is how to change the AI or edit the AI to train more troops? my limited knowledge of the editor didnt do much so i saw that the maker of this awesome remake knows best , and very nice new missions hehe boss fight as gorona was very fun well done.

 

[LordPerenolde II]

now what i want to say is how to change the AI or edit the AI to train more troops?

Play Hard Mode?

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Play Hard Mode?

well thing is i only played it on hard

 

[LordPerenolde II]

well thing is i only played it on hard

You'd like it even more difficult?

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

You'd like it even more difficult?

well as you saw with the very low cost of units i would like the AI to train bigger amounts of units and thats really about it

 

[LordPerenolde II]

well as you saw with the very low cost of units i would like the AI to train bigger amounts of units and thats really about it

So, bigger attack waves you mean.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

So, bigger attack waves you mean.

yes how to do that

 

[Blashyrkh]

Can I play it on Reforged? Will the problems be serious or just some occasional glitch?

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Can I play it on Reforged? Will the problems be serious or just some occasional glitch?

I heard there is a minor glitch which makes it rather annoying to play on Reforged, but I've worked on a fix right the past few days and should release a "patch" to make it playable on Reforged without issues.

 

[Blashyrkh]

I heard there is a minor glitch which makes it rather annoying to play on Reforged, but I've worked on a fix right the past few days and should release a "patch" to make it playable on Reforged without issues.

Great, thanks!

 

[LordPerenolde II]

Campaign now updated to be "properly" playable under Reforged:
According to @Xetanth87 a command-script was overriding a hotkey not present in Reforged, therefore this script was changed accordingly so that it won't interfere anymore.
Also, Secret Intro is now locked again.

 

[dannyldd]

Greetings. I've found your mod thanks to a friend.

I'm one of the few current Warcraft 2 modders with new generation features to mod the game that keeps updating Warcraft 2 up to date.

Is there some way to access the Icons you have used for your mod? I'd like to talk to you in private if it's possible for you.

Thank you for this awesome remake!