W40K TD improvements

[wasniahC]

its an amazing td
with an amazing concept
and an amazing system

:idea:
but there are some things which could be done about the towers to make it more to do with Warhammer 40,00
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS IT TOOK ABOUT 10 MINUTES 2 WRITE
there should be a close combat attack for attack 1 and a ranged attack for attack 2
the attack types could all be normal
and the acuisition range could be 100*their initiative
for close combat:
cooldown time=2.5/(initiative(I)+Weapon Skill(WS))
damage base=Strength(S)*10
damage number of dice=Attacks(A)
damage sides per die=6 for normal units and 12 for monstrous creatures/walkers
maximum number of targets=1
projectile speed=500
show UI=true
targets allowed=ground, air
weapon type=instant

Close combat(two weapons):
the same, but
damage number of dice=Attacks(A)+1

Close combat(Heavy close combat weapons):
the same, but
damage base=(Strength(S)*10)+5

Close combat(power weapons):
the same, but
damage base=(Strength(S)*10)+10

Close combat(lightning claws):
the same, but
damage sides per die=12 for normal units and 24 for monstrous creatures/walkers

Close combat(Force Weapons):
the same, but
damage base=Strength(S)*20
damage sides per die=12 for normal units and 24 for monstrous creatures/walkers

Close combat(power fist/claw):
the same, but
cooldown time=5
damage base=Strength(S)*20

close combat(thunder hammer):
the same, but
100% chance it stuns for 10 seconds

Close combat(witchblade):
the same, but
damage base=Strength(S)*30

Close combat(rending weapons):
the same, but
has rending ability(1 in 6 chance of double damage)

close combat(poisoned weapons):
the same, but
damage sides per die=12 for normal units and 24 for monstrous creatures/walkers

for ranged weapons:
cooldown time=[1 for pistols, 0.5 for rapid fire, 0.75 for assault, 3 for heavy weapons, 5 for ordanance weapons]
damage base=strength(S)(of weapon)
damage number of dice=1(unless specified otherwise;eg. assault 3)
damage sides per die=6+[7-armour peircing(Ap)]
Maximum number of targets=1
projectile art=i dunno, u choose i guess
projectile speed=Ballistic Skill(BS)*100 (for ordanance automaticaly 100)
range=range*20
range motion buffer=250
show UI=true
targets allowed=ground, air
weapon sound=once again i dont know
weapon type=missile
(note: ordanance weapons have large blast)

ranged weapons(blast weapons):
the same, but
with area of effect(full damage)=10(25 for large blasts)
with area of effect(medium damage)=12.5(31.25 for large blasts)
with area of effect(small damage)=17.5(43.125 for large blasts)
with damage factor - medium=0.66
with damage factor - small=0.33
weapon type=(splash)

ranged weapons(gets hot):
the same, but
gets hot special rule, 1 in 6 shots cause 10 damage to self
(i know its suicidle, but the weapon damage is strong)

ranged weapons(twin linked):
the same, but
damage sides per die=12+[7-armour peircing(Ap)]

ranged weapons(melta weapons):
the same, but
100% extra damage to mechanicals

ranged weapons(template weapons):
the same, but
damage sides per die=12+[7-armour peircing(Ap)]
range=25
weapon type=missile(line)

ranged weapons(barrage weapons):
the same, but
weapon type=artillery

ranged weapons(pinning weapons):
the same, but
25% chance it stuns for 2.5 seconds

ranged weapons(sniper weapons):
the same, but
damage base=150
projectile homing enabled=true
projectile speed=2500

ranged weapons(rending weapons):
the same, but
has rending ability(1 in 6 chance of double damage)

ranged weapons(lance weapons):
the same, but
50% mechanical damage
if i havent statted a value leave it untickd false no or 0

 

[Beebothecat]

Well....I would like the banking systym to be quicker

EX: -da= deposit all
-wa=withdraw all
-aw=auto withdraw
-ad=auto deposit

It would just make it a bit quicker, but its not major, also hero towers would be cool. I also think that the Space marines could be split into the chapters that really exsist ie. the blood angels the dark angels SPACE WOLFS ^^ ect....

But I like it the way it is so take no offense.
If I could map edit, I would make these myself

 

[Ralle]

Chainsaw: So you want ALL units from entire game to be like this?

Beeb: I think it's already there. I am not sure though.

 

[wasniahC]

lol yea ralle thats y i wanted u 2 send me the map cos it would take a while and i am very patient and determined.
also i could put in a building upgrade web for lots of different things
like all the different tyranid combinations
well
maybe not all of them
lol

 

[Ralle]

OK. Hmm can you give me some examples?
I don't understand. Should ordinary damage be the same?
Who should have which?
Sry for my slow reply..

 

[ArthurOfCamelot]

you seem to understand the editor and the game warhammer very well. Any suggestions for my upcoming warhammer fantasy version?

 

[darkkeijp]

1st) beebothecat ever checked the -ab system?
2nd) wtf am i doing in your signature wasniah (btw thats the 2nd signature im in)
3rd) why dont you try your improvements with the fantasy version of arthurofcamelot because maybe with all the changes the fans wont recognize they beloved warhammer td

 

[wasniahC]

lol
just type in [you ] without the space in the middle
that should help
and its very hard 2 explain ralle
there are like 50 different biomorphs and oevr 500 combinations lol
i was thinking of an upgrade building for tyranids.
that would be a fairly goood sytem
there are too many biomorphs to mention here.
there are soooooo many things i would like to do
i know
you could try and blok off the triggers and the units which run through the maze
cos i not good at that anyway
but i would like to redesign some of the units.
infact i would like 2 make an excel chart full of improvements will notify you when its done

 

[wasniahC]

There i have now put in special effects for some close combat things that they have.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

well you could use abilities to make the combinations, mabey not 500 but at least 100 easy.

Btw chainsaw (im not gunna call u by ur real name if u dont mind) i respect what you wrote but thats alot of work, how much of it would be possible?

 

[Ralle]

I feel very tempted to give you a file of all the units.
Do you have any IM's? Cause I would like to talk to you there and start to know you.
what's a biomorph?

 

[wasniahC]

i will not give a full explanation as my long post just got erased when i lost my connection :evil:
firstly:yes you can do it and you need someone determined
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: ME ME

secondly:weapon symbiotes are like wargear but can be used for almost any tyranid unit.
thirdly: it hink there should be a free building you get when you choose a race, which lets you get these upgrades.
fourthly: i think that any things you can only get one of should cost 1 lumber.(like the hive tyrant winged biomorph)
o and some things in the tyranid army shouldnt be in the biomorph building i mentioned : the acid maw, bioplasma, winged, feader tendrils, implant attack, flesh hooks, spine banks, spore cysts, tail weapons and thornbak biomorph
and i cant use mesenger cos i cant make an acount my bro can
infact maybe i can use his

 

[Ralle]

I also have AIM and ICQ

 

[wasniahC]

now i have some ranged weapon special effects
so it has been edited
u might have to read it again

 

[wasniahC]

and maybe we could talk to eachover online on warcraft 3

 

[wasniahC]

here is an example:

 

[wasniahC]

well you could use abilities to make the combinations, mabey not 500 but at least 100 easy.

Hive tyrant options:
10 sqrd (9 things and nothing) =100
100-10=91-eliminating doubles50-5=45-eliminating doubles
3X91=273(acid maw, bioplasma, nothing)
273X2=546 (with and without wings)
546 different types of hive tyrant(not including weapon-symbiotes).
8 sqrd=64(8 weapons)
64-2=62-can't have double rending claws or double lashwhip & bonesword
64X546=34944
Then as an option u can choose one Psychic Power
34944*6=209664 (5 powers or none and can only have one)
@.o
who wold have thought ey?

 

[wasniahC]

yay

GOT IT TO WORK
i am called wasniahC666

 

[darkkeijp]

i stilli still think that its better to keep the warhammer td the way it is

maybe you can make somekind a new version of warhammer td with all your stuff
the we have 3 versions the populare normal td the fantasy version and your version

and what am i doing in your signature !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wasniahC]

not a bad idea ralle we should consider that
i still wont be able to make the map though ralle. could you sort that out and me just do towers?

 

[Ralle]

First Messenger..

 

[darkkeijp]

i finally know why my name is in everyone's signature something with a you
how to stop it?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

i think it is become kinda annoing aswell. not for me personally but oo many people are asking why its in their signatures and stuff. but thats just my veiw..

 

[wasniahC]

hello am back am going to make something where the map is a bit like line tower wars and you start with two buildings for your race:
one is a command building where u make units
one is a research unit where u do researches
when u make units you dont just make units they come in squads
eg. with tyranids you might make 8 gaunts,or 6 genestealers, or 1 hive tyrant
also you have heros with a hero limit of 2
how do u limit the amount of heros you can make?

 

[Ralle]

I think it's already in the triggers when making a new map, else go to gameplay constants and change it there..

 

[wasniahC]

yea but it starts limited to 3, and i am trying to limit it to 2, and it is not in the gameplay constants = O

 

[Ralle]

Player - Limit Training of Heros

should do it
its a trigger

 

[wasniahC]

aaa thx thiswill help!

 

[wasniahC]

oo kils two birds with one stone! can only have two heros, but can also have two of same type!

 

[Vincent_27]

wasniahC forget it.
I play wh40k myself, the system GW made is based for a round game.

(imperial guard 8th Cadia youre tyranids are just
moving targets for my sentinels with multi lasres
and my heavy armor teams with motars and
heavy bolters muhahahaha)

Also it is based on dicesand not on and avarage damdge system like in Warcraft, also dmgsys in wc is based on diferent armor types and 1 armor points do not give exactly 3% dmg reduction.
In wc, he more armor you have the less the single armor point reduces dmg, and you would need to rewrite the whole armor system at all cause of the dmg calculation on different dmgtypes is totaly different from wh40k. Jus thinkf the damadge against vehicles... you wanna make 4 different stacked units for a tower how do you want to make 4 different dmg zones)

And dieing units ?
My gosh noone would ever buy a towers with plasma weapons or psykers.

But youre right there should be some improvements.
Like a hormogaunt is simply useless in this game it should have fe. 3 times faster attack speed and range of only 100-200 or imperial guards should have all different heavy weapons, hevy melter auto canon heavy bolter motar rocket launcher crack missel and rl frag missel multi laser and lasercanon.

But hey, remember mximum size of a map which should be playable in Bnet is 4mb. If it is too big it can t be hosted (damn blizzard).
In the end it would be easier to write a whole new wh40k game in java.
Not like it would not 've been donne yet, manny did many tired...
And many got sued.
There is a reason why GW did not realease a electronical wh40k game which is exactly like the table top, the table top brings more money.

I am happy with the map as it is, exept you have to pay for -ab
(this realy sucks) and the stunn bug from ogryns which 100% stunns anny boss and last but not least : the swarm is ony will, there are no heroes in the swarm so there does not exist any red terror or one eye since last wh40k edition.

(I thought I read something about hero towers with experience.. bad idea this would ruin whole game and in wh40k there also is no experience)

 

[wasniahC]

i know i dont plan to put in a red terror or old one eye and i think thast it would be quite interesting t have experience, so a senior officer could gain abilities, such as leadership, so that he could make things near him have 50% faster attack rate, and could summon different advisors for 1 minute or become a heroic senior officer as a final power!
or a hive tyrant could have different psychic powers, or a broodlord could have something to represent inhuman strength, like a critical strike type thing

 

[WildRider]

i like how in chaos you have the different army but what about in eldar, adding the different craft worlds and in ork adding the different races.

 

[Ralle]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaagh..

Hey why dont we make it so there are only one of each race??? but like 4 builders for each and they can build 3 different units??

So in chaos they have like 3 units for each subrace.. I could make that for all races.. thats better imho

 

[WildRider]

that would work

 

[Vincent_27]

You forgot a complete main race dude !!!!!!!

Inquisition!!!!!!
Inquisition is a bit hairy, it has own units like sisters of war or chair of judgement.. ( a mech with 3 ppl sitting in it image... j.: clerk of the court note, the suspect infront of us is sentenced to death by syncronised lasercanofirer, because of beeing non human. c.: noted youre honour. j.: bailiff execute the verdict. b.: at once youre honour....)
But it also takes several units from imperial guard and the space marine orders.
But they have the mightiest infantry unit which is still not counted as monstrus tyranid creature or monstrus creature or vehicle, the gray knights. If a human got injected the gensowing of the emperor and became a space marine and shows psionick talents he has 2 ways, become a space marine libarian or to get a 660 year long education with over 75 uber deadly test to become a grayknight, a fanatic beliver to the church of the holy emperor and only obeing the inquisition.
A group of greyknights is a group of 5-10 spacemarine terminators with max moral uber high toughness and stormbolters plus psioniker melee weapons also they all can use psionik skill like independent charackter modells.

When you play inquisition there are 2 subraces, demon hunters and whichhunters. As I said they often borrow units from imperials and spacemarine orders.

But every other race has people from different planets breeds or motherships, and they have different abilities.

Id say make about 2-4 subraces for every race and read this site:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/armies/

 

[WildRider]

if you need help with eldar saim-hann sub army ask me

 

[Vincent_27]

Ok now I found the site I searched for:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/daemonhunters/gallery/4/

Annyways, Id make it like this:
Rename Imperial guards to imperials, and put the options:
Imperial Guards Cadia
Imperial Guards Catachan
Which Hunters
Demon Huntes

As for Space Marines Id make:
Ultra Marines
Spacewolves
Blood Angels
Dark Angels

For other Races you should ask other people here or get youre information from this site:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/

And hey, I d beg you to make a seconds Imperial Hero, Ibram Gaunt, I read the wh40k Novels and i realy love that guy, I would shot my way through with him on my side to face victory, death, honour, or what ever awaits me behind the dust.

 

[WildRider]

for eldar

Non-Craftworld Eldar which would be the one right now

Iyanden Ghost Warriors-focused more on wraithgaurd and wraith lord

Saim-Hann Wildriders-jetbikes, vipers, wild rider chief and kindred

Alaitoc ranger Force-focused on rangers

Biel-Tann Swordwind Army-aspect warriors-rangers,hawks,etc.

Ulthwe the Damned-black gaurdians=gaurdians on steriods

 

[Erathon]

well it was an ok idea but i find that this system does work well (even though some of the races are not in it).
if you should get 4 builders there wouldn't be any real chaos order (everyone would begin mixing) and the same would happen to the other races.......

so keep the old system it seems to work just fine.

 

[WildRider]

how about one builder but like a hero ability you chose which sub race

 

[Vincent_27]

Yeah thats possible, I ve seen this already in a dota like funmap it is possible.
The engenier had abilities for frost tower acid towers and firer.

 

[Ralle]

I was thinking about that ability system to make many different units.
So we could, just with base units make all those biomorphs I think.

 

[Vincent_27]

Well if you just look at eldar you see its quite nasty already to upgrade most towers from the basic unit.

Also tyranids are totaly different you cant morph a unit from the baseunit.
gaunts and genstealers are total different species like carnifex and Biovores.
Also there are different tyranid breeds, a tyranid army breeded from materials of one planet has different abilities then breeds from other planet materials.
(they simply take all bio material from a planet, suck all minerals out of the ground and then suck up all athmosphere and oceans)

Id make it like with the space marines and the different weapon upgrades for standart marines and terminators and dreadnaughts.

Think of mabe setting diffrent morphs for different sub races, one subrace acid canons the other bug canons and so on...
This could also make sense for different spacemarineorders.
Each order has a prefered weapon, flamer melta plasma or a melle weapon with only a pistol etc...
Also a nice thing for tyranid units would be synapse creatures, you could make a tower like tyranid warriors uograded zeantrophes or hive tyrants who give a imense speed and or dmgaura which only tyranids benefit of.
Mabe just available by tower costs lets say at lvl 15 or so.
This would be nice to stop bosses but would requirer weaker tyranid start units, remember tyranids are no super warriors, they just mass like orcs or the imperial guuards army.(imperial guars are just 2 huge and braod waves of flesh shield with 6 tanks behind it who kill all good armored enemies)

 

[Pyrite]

Hello All, I am new to this site, but not new to either the TD or Warhammer 40K itself
I believe it is great the way it is, and I congratulate the creators of such a fine mod!
However I do agree that it could do with even more tweeking. Now as much as you people will hate to admit it, and I'm sorry to say it, the TD will never be as good as the tabletop game. If you want something as good as the game, grab yourself the rulebook, an army codex, two troops choices and an HQ, paint and assemble them, then go down to your local GW store and play. May the luck of the dice be with you (unlike me or most other GW games )
However...
I think that making a "close combat attack" for all the races, allthough a good idea, is somewhat pointless to the Tau (especially, try charging a 6 man tau unit into a 5 man tactical squad and you'll see my point), Imperial Guard and Necrons (certain units). This is beacuse your close combat attack will override your shooting attack when the creeps enter your lybrinth. Instead...Do this as the ONLY attack for Orks and Tyrinids, even for Dark Eldar. This will not only be more realistic, but may incourage people to build in a lybrinth. The problem with close combat attacks is that against air units, those poor troopers wouldn't survive.
Another point...Why not make the creeps related to Warhammer 40k as well. Take, for example, the first mechanical unit. Orc Stone Chuckers, while not a bad name, try calling them Trukks, Warbikes, Battle Wagons etc. Concider going to www.forgeworld.com for details on the less known but cooler modles of 40k.
Another Point...Biomorphs will make the Tyrinids too strong, because then the other races, like Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar who don't have many squad upgrades, will be underminded...
I know it would be a big ask but if you could do some modleing that would be a damn good experiance. Screw footmen as Tau, make some firewarrior images and...woah yeah...Give the Guardsmens lasers, not arrows...Although I do think the ghoul modle fits well into the Genestealer role.
That's all the blabbing I'll do today.
Best of luck, I love the map!
Bye

 

[Vincent_27]

Id recomend t go to the official gw site, heres the url again:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/

I found some little mistakes like btw... vindicares are a unit from the whichhunters (subrace inquisition).

The thing with the close combat ain't realy a problem, if people build smart (not many do, they all make that standart maze with 2 unbended lines of towers and then they build aa towers at the verry edge) they build a better maze and positionate aa close range towers under the way from aa units.

Biomorphs would not overpower tyranids, as long as you remove the hero towers, which do simply not exist if you read the new tyranid codex.
( a socialcaution with no indiviums has no individual mutations from lictors or carnifexes, so there simply are no heroes)
You could give them many different abilities like a chaos dmg upgrade or longer range etc... or upgrades which might requirer a wood.
If you ask me as guard player (in the td as in the tabletop) I think hero towers are prety useless.
I prefere selling the wood and build aditional sanctionedpsykers, 2 of them are way cheaper and far better then most hero towers.

As for moddels,
I'm sure youre having enough skill and experience to make modeels and/or skinns, but scripting a map is already hard enough.
Also modeels and skinns do need a lot of space, and the maximum size for bnet playable maps is still 4mb.

Sure, you can take already existing effects and replace somme, like you said lasers, for example the attack arcane towers from humans are using would look far better then arrows shot from an axe :shock:
You could gain somme place by givin each unit only one answer when you click on it, and deleting the 24 others, this has been made by hatoup in footmen frenzy.

:? hm..
Mabe I should write a summary from all our ideas. ^^

 

[Ralle]

yeah a summary would be very nice!

 

[WildRider]

yes upgrading from one unit, but eldar has many subraces that are not included. the fact that the gaurdian can be upgraded to aa, magic atk, or poison is cool but the price is a big factor. also the stun on the stunning farseer should be upped because its at like 2% or soemthing. maybe less i'm not sure

 

[Vincent_27]

k I will send it to you tomorow via pm

 

[Ralle]

yes upgrading from one unit, but eldar has many subraces that are not included. the fact that the gaurdian can be upgraded to aa, magic atk, or poison is cool but the price is a big factor. also the stun on the stunning farseer should be upped because its at like 2% or soemthing. maybe less i'm not sure

no it's like 90% I think

 

[Pyrite]

I haven't really played as Chaos in the TD, but I understand there are like 4 demon followers.

For our other races we have:
Eldar, who live on giant ships called 'craftworlds' (for those of you who have no idea WTF warhammer is about). Each craftworld varies, some more then others. For example, Sin Ham (no offence to eldar players if i spell this wrong, my marines could care less, but I'll put this in anyway ) are the jetbike/viper lovers. I don't know if vipers exist in V4 of 40k because I only have the v3 rulebook
Bi ten, who I believe are the adverage eldar but then again I have no idea. I think they like their Falcon and Fireprisim Grav-tanks...

Dark Eldar, who live on slaveships, I don't think they have many factions, just different ships...

Space Marines: "there are always 1000 chapters at any one time in the universe" or something like that...need I say more except for blood abgles (love close combat), dark angles (who feel the emperor cast them out), space wolves (who get that damn leman russ tank which I love so much and also are very feral) and black templars, who are very knighty and also love close combat). I can always help you in the space marine department.

Tau, who fight for the greater good and have many other races incorperated in their empire, either as mercenaries or by ideology. I can also help you on this section. They use advanced equipment, about as advanced as eldar...but the Tau are MUCH younger.
Certain Tau some from different 'steps' or worlds. Each step varies a little bit, but they are manly the same. There is however the 'Farsight enclaves' where some Tau train heavily in close combat, which is unusal, and are also limited in weapons.

Chaos, love to eat worlds and kill people, they follow deamons and chaos gods. I'm no use to you here :S

IG, use an absolute mass of soldiers and mega tanks (screw commisier Yarrik, lets have a Baneblade or Titan as their "hero"!). Again you have many regiments, differing slightly.

Tyrinids are crazed bug dudes who are bowned together by a very intelligent force (the hive mind). They have dfferent broods that differ slightly.

Whichhunters and Inquisiters are new to version 4 so I know nothing about them except for the sisters of battle.

Necrons are very old steel skeletons with ancient, terrifying technology (unless you put them against a battle cannon, then we see who's terrifying, eh!). They don't differ much I THINK! don't quote me on that

Orks are feral greenskins who like close combat. They have different clans and each clan, say badmoons for example, like different things. Badmoons like wealth and Kustom Shoota's, while Snakebites are very primitive.


Your best bet is simply to walk into a GW store and flick through the Codex of as many armies as you can to gain an idea about them and maybe even start collecting an army. Believe me it's a lot of fun!