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Vanguard

Discussion in 'Dota 2' started by sentrywiz, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. I almost build vanguard for all heroes because it's so good.
    Max hp, hp regen and block. Especially on squishy ranged chars. Always on junglers.
    Just wondering what are your thoughts on this. I'm no pro but I feel that vanguard is a good choice for any hero.
     
  2. Shadow Fury

    Shadow Fury

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    Vanguard is actually a good item for early game but in late it's not a big deal. Yeah, it blocks some damage but if you get someone with 200 damage that vanguard will not give you great defence. Then, it's not that good for ALL heroes. For ranged units, it's less effective so I usually don't pick it for them.
     
  3. Mythic

    Mythic

    Media Manager

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    For me, Vanguard is hardly a choice for non tank heroes.
     
  4. SpectreD

    SpectreD

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    Really depends who you vs. There is no set-in-stone build for any characters, all depends how your opps play and how you play
     
  5. GIMLI_2

    GIMLI_2

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    as already mentioned, vanguard is a weak lategame item. that's why they made it upgradeable to crimson guard (which is a really decent support item).
    you usually don't build it on any carry because it interrupts your farm. supporter can buy better items for that gold like mekansm or force staff/dagger.
    however there are some heroes that have a great use of this item.
    Axe - obviously
    Ogre Magi - if you can afford it very quickly he gets really fat and is nearly unkillable, in addition with his 7 base armor and 2,5 base hp regeneration
     
  6. o_O

    I didn't know of the crimson guard until now.
    Its great for supporters. But no, vanguard is still my favorite item.
     
  7. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    Vanguard, is an item more for early and half of game in majority, 10-35 minutes. Earlier is a the best items, especially for most of starters heroes like Axe and Centaur. Try Kill an Axe Feeded with Vanguard in the beginning, can compromise to die all the team.

    Now only need an item for cause taunt. Lol. Joke. :)

    Is one of the items I like the game, and of custom map (DotA 1).
     
  8. GreeN!X

    GreeN!X

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    I rarely pick vanguard if I'm the carry or support. I don't even pick it for tanks unless it's necessary. It is a good item but I find it better to build HoD -> Pipe rather than vanguard ->crimson.
     
  9. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    I will respect your opinion. But I disagree, if most of the enemy team has more skills favorencedo to physical damage that to magic, will be wasted of money. Remember that Vanguard help the farming in creeps and make the most part of damage is annulled (of the creeps).
     
  10. To each their own, all playstyles are valid.

    I like vanguard lot because its natural and easy choice of what to invest my early game money:

    Item Reasons
    - Stoic Shield is something I buy in 60% of the games (melee jungler/lane)
    - Ring of Health is a great buy early on to sustain me all the time (less money on tango and salve)
    - One or two kills is all I need to get that last vitality booster

    Enemy Reasons
    - In most games I play (more than 80%) there is an enemy attack carry that wins games if fed
    - To ensure not feeding the enemies, you buy vanguard which makes their job very hard at killing you
    - Enemy team has to gank up on you (which takes 2 or more) and leaves the other lanes free for allies to farm
    - Less feeding equals better chance to win the game (3 heroes to gank one hero isn't much of a score unless they also get tower)

    Its even better now that there is the crimson guard upgrade to vanguard. However, even later in the game, its still an item that I'd sell last if I was to buy something better (like Tarrasque)
     
  11. Rui

    Rui

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    I tried getting Crimson Guard the other game on Silencer, it saved me in at least 1 fight against a Phantom Lancer who was targeting me. I think a few items suffer too much from having a penalty for ranged though. Vanguard feels like a waste waste on ranged because 20 damage is so little compared to 40. They could have made it 30 or so. Orb of Venom goes the same way, 12% ms slow is huge, 4% is meaningless, you can't even tell that the enemy's moving slower.
     
  12. It tells something that vanguard has ranged stats but heart of tarrasque doesn't.
    It means vanguard is really good and they don't want ranged chars to abuse it. Same with the orb :D

    Also crimson guard looks good too. I haven't tried it.
    Have they added it in dota 1?

    EDIT:

    I see no crimson guard in dota 1. I guess it will take some time until it is added.
     
  13. Rui

    Rui

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    Well they did succeed with the orb, no ranged ever buys it.
     
  14. Arcisal

    Arcisal

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    That's because a 12% movement speed slow on a ranged character would be pretty OP. Melee heroes would be too easily kited. Same goes for Basher really. The only victims of this compromise are heroes with short ranged attacks like TA or Morph.
     
  15. Shadow Fury

    Shadow Fury

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    But TA gets a good range by upgrading her passive and morph can change its agility continuously to get an incredible AS. Probably that's why they have short ranges.

    So my conclusion about all this discussion is "get the items you feel that are fitting to the hero". Every hero has different ways of being played according to the items e.g with my dear legion. Some use to get the dagger and things like assault cuirass to increase AS and decrease enemy armor. I, personally, get things like lothar and stygian to focus more on the damage and stealthy attacks (unless enemy buys damn wards!!!)
     
  16. Rui

    Rui

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    That's why I said 12% ms is op overall. They should make it 9% for melee, 6% for ranged or something, but as it stands, it's totally useless for ranged.
     
  17. Its far from totally useless. At least in my point of view. Here's why:

    - It cancels healing effects like Bottle, Salve and even Clarity (HUGE PLUS)
    - Stacks with lifesteal
    - Great for chasing

    Those two reasons are good enough for me. Even if the slow and damage are minuscule.
    Doesn't kill enemies below 1 health. That's okay though. Forcing someone to base
    because poison canceled salve is a big reason to buy the item. It's like the item says:

    "Orb of Venom cancels one enemy hero XP worth of X seconds/minutes"
     
  18. Noya

    Noya

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    It does not.
     
  19. LordDz

    LordDz

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    Orb of Venom: 12 damage and 4% slow that lasts 4 seconds. 275 gold.
    Or
    2 Mantle of Intelligence: 6 intelligence, 300 gold. 6 damage if primary attribute. (Just buy the agi or str items if you have a different primary)

    Unless you're planning on building an eye of skadi later on for your hero, I wouldn't get it for a ranged hero.
     
  20. -Grendel

    -Grendel

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    vengerd sux. buy heart, like what real men do.