The Path of Chaos Multiplayer RPG (Save/Load)

[Nestharus]

Map Project


Seeking-

2D artists (no icon work needed at this point, need for other things)
Modelers
Cartographers
JASS coders (don't have to be that great for this spot)
vJASS coders
Writers
Terrainers
​

See project thread for more details

 

[Nestharus]

Article 1: The New Era of Effects

The team at Fate Industries continues to aspire to what can only be described as the best in creativity, enjoyability, and realism.

We've realized that effects and stats, are like everything else, objects. 600 fire damage on a sword, for example, is an object that has a type (fire damage) and a value (600), both compounding into an object. In this way we are now defining the world.

We've designed effects using three core concepts: value, type, target.

Before an effect like a spell can be applied, it must first have a target, and to do that it must acquire targets. For example, casting a flame strike (Blood Mage) targets all units in the area (all hit by flames) and casting a meteor storm (custom) targets all units in the vicinity of a meteor impact.

Next, there must be a value. Damage cannot be applied without a value. Values can be determined by the power of impact (a unit directly hit by a meteor will be much more damaged than a unit who is farther away).

We also realized that something like the damage of an attack was really defined by all of the total damage values of that attack and that an attack may be defined by multiple attacks (a sword might slash quickly, resulting in both a shockwave around it and the actual cut: 2 attacks) (a sword might have 50 fire damage, 20 ice damage, and 200 physical damage). In this way, each action can be defined by a group of sub actions (attack with sword -> slash, shockwave). Because each action can be defined by a group of sub actions, internal groupings must be limitless

cast spell

• 
  meteor shower
  • 
    impact
    • 
      physical
      fire
    shockwave
    • 
      physical
      fire
    burn
    • 
      fire
  earthquake
  • 
    shockwave

In this way, each action must be treated as both an effect and a group of effect, where the primary effect's targeting determines the targets of the sub effect, and so on, and that each application of the effect (stats/damage/etc) is defined by a group of applications, each application including a value and an apply method and each application having a power assigned to it (meteor example of a unit being nicked by a meteor vs a unit being crushed).

With such an application, not only can full freedom in any sort of spell, buff, aura, attack (any action really) be defined, but any sort of gear can be crafted with any grouping of stats.

Currently, the execution of the above model is still being worked on (minimizing overhead to reasonable amounts and simplifying).

Article 2: A Theory On Beginning an RPG

The team discussed how an RPG should begin today and we realized that the only possible way to begin anything was to begin it with action, something that surprisingly so few games actually do. We reflect on games like God of War when we think of games that executed this technique best.

This action should introduce the player to the story, the world, the characters, and the gameplay, but how should one go about introducing a character to gameplay if they don't have the gear to play as the thing they desire? Furthermore, how is a character to be immediately launched into this adventure.

To do this, we look at the current first continent of the world (an image will eventually be uploaded. ProFantasy software was used to lay out the continent).

There is a barren wasteland surrounded by forests and covered in poison, where only the undead can live. To the far south, on a peninsula, is a major commercial town (somewhat close to the barrens, maybe 200 miles away).

I postulate that a group, while traveling to the major commercial city in the south (possibly from a small village?) get attacked by undead creatures as they pass close to the barrens. They are saved by a caravan (some clerics, merchants, mercenaries) who are also on the way to the town (clerics returning to a monk by the name of Ahruman). The group is saved by the caravan. They are asked to be mercenaries for caravan in return for goods (get first gear). They travel on down to the city, learning how to play the game as they protect the caravan along with the other mercenaries. It is at the city that they eventually meet Ahruman.

The Goals (accomplished*)

• 
  Launch into action
  Introduce to world
  Early protective environment
  Teach the game
  Give start gear
  Develops story
  Stay away from beginner quest, start city, and etc; achieve an objective already present
  Playable by any character, but only at the start of the map

 

[Nestharus]

News #2 Added

Article 2 Written

Introduction to Project updated to include all (or most) features of the map as well as map's goals so people could have a better understanding of what is being done here.


Please refer to the Team section for open positions.


For those who care, if the team had a secretary I could spend less time updating this thread and more time on the map : P.

 

[Nestharus]

Feel free to reply giving your own feedback or ideas ; D.


First, new thoughts on casting magic!
------------------------------------------------------
Rather than basing off of 5 elements and an invoke button, the new idea is to create elements by clicking on spots relative to the core (core can be the caster as well, making simple spells easier to cast). Each line is a ley line of magical power. Each section represents a different type of magic. The farther out you click (up to a point, small), the greater amount of magic is put into the specific node. I'm still unsure if I want to define types of magic or somehow work this all into 100% custom magic, defining perhaps 12 basic properties.

This will ensure that there is a much wider variety of things that can be done with magic and that magic can be cast faster.

There are two basic types of magic:
Pact- form an agreement, work in conjuction
Bound- force, control

For example, a mage might summon elementals, forcing the summons to perform tasks. Another mage might form a pact with the elementals, calling to them (thus summoning), and asking them to do tasks. Necromancy is mostly always bound magic.

Magic can come from a variety of sources (your character, a deity?, summons, and etc). This creates different types of casting: dependent and independent.

The shape of a spell system determines what kind of path it'll have. A circle might be a more aoe type spell while a line might be a target.

Shapes also play roles in nodes. A triangular node might be defensive, circular over time (regenerative, dots, etc), a point a bomb, and so on.

Spell systems can be put together to create more complex spells, for example a spell for summoning or one to cause a meteor shower.

The goal now in this development is to make spell casting faster so that a player does not need to place hundreds of nodes for a semi complicated spell.

Items will also serve a purpose to make spell casting faster. Rings, gloves, and etc might contain engravings so that spell systems can be quickly placed and invoked.

Melee
----------------------------------------------
An idea to make melee more playable removes the factor of extending/contracting the arms, thus only controlling directions. Melee still needs work to be easily playable >.>.

Story Time (yes, still extremely rough... the primary ideas are present, but eh) (will write out basics of each act as time permits)
----------------------------------------------
just a picture to convey idea: http://www.pasles.org/circle.jpg

Firstly, download the attachment and open it up. The image is too large to upload directly (8000x6000), and no, it can't be reduced ; P. That is the first continent

Each act can be played separately, given the player is up to the act. An act can only be played through once each game.

If a player has completed an act, they can simply do boss runs if they desire.

Currently, there are 8 acts (prone to expansion). Each act can be thought of as a book (pretty long huh).

Act 1: Venture to the South

• 
  Travel about 250 miles from village to the commercial harbor city of Halfars located on the peninsula.
  
  Primary Highlight: learning game (combat, crafting, etc), introductions to characters, development of basic story, various mini-bosses and challenges.
  
  Challenges include: hunting, fishing, scouting, defending
  Battles include: wolves, goblins, bandits
  
  3 side mini-bosses (wild creatures, etc) and 1 dungeon including 3 mini-bosses and 1 boss.
  
  Magic Dungeons (for summoning and etc):
  Wherewolf Grounds, Larva Nest, Tree Grove
  
  2 towns

Act 2: Ahruman's Crest

• 
  In town, brought to Ahruman by the monks from the caravan.
  
  Eventually, fight against Ahruman in a hidden temple under the church. After defeating Ahruman, his crest is taken by a group. First glimpse of the Disciples of Chaos. Chasing the group down ends in failure.
  
  Story of Ahruman's Crest: yet to really be written ^_^
  
  Dungeons: Temple of the Lost One (1 boss, 2 mini-bosses)
  
  Magical:
  Cave of Fortune, Highpass Hold
  
  In the city, possibly join guild to improve on your field (various combat, crafting, and nefarious guilds). Do quests in guild to advance, etc.

Act 3: The Barrens

• 
  Astors (main god) fought Heknar (apparently an ancient god) with dragons in an older time of Dimiourgia (world). It was a time when great entities came from all over to witness its creation and tend to it. Heknar didn't start out as a god, and really never was one.
  
  The Alliance between Astors and the various entities on the planet were able to beat back Heknar and seal him into his own pocket dimension.
  
  The few dragons that lived sleep on Dimiourgia. The few entities that survived watch over it as the world's gods.
  
  Apparently, there is a dragon in one of the islands south of Halfars.
  
  You need to take a ship to the islands. Many ruins of long ancient cultures await you there.
  
  In the islands, make a pact with the dragon (only can be summoned given conditions). The dragon will help if need be.
  
  The Barrens Dungeons:
  2 entrance dungeons (2 mini bosses each, 1 boss each, 4 puzzles each)
  1 primary dungeon (tower with 20 floors, 9 mini-bosses, 1 major boss, Lich Kerosh the Plague Bringer)
  
  Kerosh is holding Ahruman's Crest and there are various disciples. He teleports them off (to the north).
  
  Summon the dragon to defeat Kerosh (Kerosh is a champion of Heknar, so the power required to actually defeat him is insurmountable, although if a player did have that power, they would not need to summon the dragon). Kerosh is the one responsible for maintaining poison and undead of The Barrens. The chances that even the most powerful players are able to defeat him without aid from the dragon are slim to none.

Act 4: Trouble In The North

• 
  Find primary headquarters of disciples and collect the various keys to open the way to chaos

Act 5: Pathway to Chaos

• 
  Battle across the pathway of chaos, a rift in time and space where seemingly random worlds and environments coexist. Defeat insurmountable monsters, or run away ;D. The realm weakens your power drastically.

Act 6: Heknar's Tower

• 
  Battle your way up through 75 nightmarish floors in a setting that further weakens your power as you climb. Eventually, face the lord of the tower, Heknar, a demigod (good luck).

Act 7: The End of Time

• 
  Heknar is a puppet!! The shards of chaos are really a wear of tearing apart the universe!? Deimos (revealed), the apparent supreme power of the universe and harbinger of plight is the enemy????
  
  Farewell universe.

Act 8: War of the Gods

• 
  The universe was a machination meant to fuel the power of an entity named Nimhdu. Everyone was a minor illusion, Deimos being the only real entity, caught up in the web of Nimhdu. Now, where reality is finally shown, witness the war of the gods.

So Heknar was a mere man who obtained the Shard of Chaos during an earlier era of Dimiourgia. Deimos, unable to utilize it for himself, attempted to use Heknar to do it. Heknar was eventually driven mad and tried to destroy everything about him. Astors was called upon and the first great war began.

Deimos was forced to wait.

The shard was eventually cast back into the world (Ahruman's Crest) by Heknar as a way of undoing the seal set down by Astors. It worked and the item spread its influence, thus starting up new ways of chaos. The traveling monks were from the north, bringing it down to be kept in The Temple of the Lost One (headed secretly by Ahruman). The crest is moved from place to place so as to keep it safe and to further spread its influence. Upon Ahruman's death, the crest is moved to The Barrens to be protected by one of Heknar's great champions, Kerosh. Far in the north, where the portals to the pathway of chaos were (although they were closed), was the next viable option for the disciples with Kerosh's defeat. There, it could be protected by the pathway's guardians (direct servants of Heknar). The only problem was that the power of chaos was still weak on the planet (connection through crest was tenuous at best, seal still powerful).

Players eventually head to the north and defeat the agents of chaos. One of the agents takes the crest back to the realm of chaos, figuring it was better to cut losses (connection to world terminated, influence by Heknar gone).

The pathway still poses a problem as agents can travel through (although their power is even more limited at this point). Commissioned by various northern cities in the interest of their own protection, players travel into the pathway of chaos to put an end to Heknar.

Act 1:
You begin in a small village to the southwest tip of the forested area. The forested area encompasses The Barrens (wasteland in center of forest). The Barrens is a desolate place. The air there is poisoned and the only things across its landscape are scattered dead-like trees and ruins. Undead roam the wastelands (possibly the site of a war from long ago). As one goes deeper into the forest, the trees begin to appear diminished, and eventually dead. Undead beings wander deep in the forest.

The village you are in is under attack by the undead. You are called to help defend it. The undead monsters are extremely powerful and you are forced to retreat from the village, watching it burn to the ground behind you, most everyone dying. The undead horde chases after you and you happen upon a caravan complete with mercenaries, merchants, and a few traveling monks. They save you from the hordes.

They are traveling to the south. The monks tell you that there is someone down there who could help figure out what caused the undead to venture out of the deep of the forest and attack the village.

The caravan decides to hire you on as a mercenary in return for some gear. You help the other mercenaries go hunting for food and etc to initially learn the game (introduced to a few characters as well).

Act 1 covers a 250 mile long journey (take a look at the map and the scale it's drawn in).

 

[Nestharus]

So am I the only one interested in seeing this map get made? So far everyone has told me that this would be much better as a game, not a wc3 map.
--------------------------------------------------

New ideas for The Path of Chaos.

After watching a show that had some pretty intense parallels to this, I think it's better to rather focus on a world than a universe ;o.


So firstly, the machination of the universe is now that of the world. In the first story, Nimhdu was trying to create the perfect form of energy, grey energy (balance between light and dark). In this, I'm not quite sure yet ; D.

The pillars of the world are the Daolin, or dreamers, which lend to the world's existence and control it. Originally (older version of story), The Daolin existed atop an ocean of reality, giving and taking form that ocean, the ocean being a myriad of universes. They were the conduits.

These entities control the world and the beings upon it.

To further understand my ideas of future change, one needs to understand the idea of perfection. Perfection is an entirely subjective opinion. What is perfect is based solely on perspective: what is perfect to one may be imperfect to another. In this way, perfection does not exist. Any who aspire to the path of perfection can be thought of as wrong. In the original Path of Chaos story, Deimos stood up to Nimhdu, against perfection, heralding The Path of Chaos. Deimos was the lone rogue of the many beings in the highest and most abstract realm, so he was sealed into the world. I think it is perhaps more exciting that Deimos go into the world to help the people on their, thus leading a revolution against the upper beings, and leading in the ways of Chaos. I'll have to rethink quite a few things, but this should allow for a more interesting story (less holes and etc). I'll have to figure out how Heknar, Astors, and etc fit in.

This story is actually likening to that of Lucifer's rebellion against God because he thought God was full of bs. Keep in mind I wasn't trying to make it that way, that's just the way it turned out. On an interesting note, it appears that more and more shows/stories are being written like this, painting Lucifer as the salvation to humanity and God and angels and etc as the bad guys (I'm atheist btw). Perhaps these stories are the result of the current age we are living in.

Another concept that I'd been thinking of for a long while was the idea of races being in tune with various forms of energy. The more powerful an energy in an area, the stronger/weaker a race is. This means that a lvl 5 may be like a lvl 150 in a climate that they are heavily in tune with, and a lvl 150 might be like a lvl 5 in an area that are heavily out of tune with. Beings from the chaos realm are ridiculously powerful, but in the world, with little connection to their roots, their power is severely weakened. In the chaos realm they are nigh unbeatable.

What is Heknar then? His roots are in the world, but he dwells in the realm of chaos. Heknar created the realm of chaos. Would not the chaos realm be the same as the reg then? Heknar became entirely corrupt and based the realm of chaos off of his own being, so no.


So, how will this change the overall layout of what's been thought up for acts? How will the players even progress now?

Like before, Deimos is an ally that is treated as an enemy.

Heknar is an enemy to everyone, a crazy guy.

New: Heknar was possibly allied with Deimos, Deimos crafted the shard as a way of freeing the world from control of the higher entities (name unknown atm) by destroying the Daolin? Heknar became corrupt by it, turned rogue, etc.

Deimos, being sealed into the world, is forced to take on the guise of a mortal. His power becomes severely weakened.

As he was affiliated with Heknar, he is treated as the epitome of evil, the root of everything bad ; P.

The shard of chaos is a tool for destroying the Daolin, thus giving freedom to everything on the planet.

The Daolin can be thought of as entities that have no thoughts of their own. They simply dream. These dreams influence the world about them (dreams controlled by higher entities). These dreams also connect worlds together (thus the bridge between the abstract realm of the entities above controlling the world and the world itself).


As for acts?

Defeat the chaos of the world (caused by Heknar)
Defeat Heknar (caused by Deimos, not purposefully though)
Fight Deimos, but come to understand truth (leads to taking out Daolin)
Take out the Daolin

Abstract and Physical realms merge and the garden of the gods appears (Nimhdu being the leader).

Take out Nimhdu


Pretty straight forward... sadly, lol...


This means that originally, all of these realms were one. They were split up by Nimhdu in the ideal of perfection, making higher realms the homes of "higher" beings and lower realms the homes of "lower" beings. Higher controlled lower. Nimhdu was on the highest realm and the planet on the lowest. Realm of Chaos was in a realm of its own.

Upon destruction of Daolin, all the realms merge.

There have been ideas for universe layout of The Path of Chaos as well, ideas I'll hopefully tie in.

Imagine a huge sphere filled with water. Now imagine another sphere next to it, both of them connected by a tunnel that can move along the surface, bend, expand, and contract. Now imagine 309583454359 more spheres connected by tunnels.

In the first sphere, imagine bubbles within it. In each bubble is a world (some floating landscapes, some worlds, some perhaps buildings).

Imagine sea animals swimming in the water outside of the bubbles.

In the center, imagine a sort of fountain spraying water out the top. The water splits at one point into various streams that curve to the bottom of the fountain to be shot up again.

When you think about it, it's kind of like Space (not intentional). Each world being in a bubble of atmosphere, each galaxy being like a sphere of reality, disconnected from other galaxies. Dark matter being like the void outside of the spheres/tunnels.

-----------------------------------------------------
Still reforming magic to try and make it make more sense... ever since my idea of circles and ley lines, I've been remaking whole thing o-o.
-----------------------------------------------------
Still don't know the right answer for melee combat... should be gamelike and challenging. Full motion is too realistic, but slight motion is repetitive as you end up going back and forth >.> (swinging a sword from left to right to left to right over and over again). I'm sure I'll eventually think of something....

 

[DamneDD]

Really interesting ideas there mate. I hope you won't give up like some others untill you finish ur project and leave us for SC2 or something Cause i really would like to see this map in action.

 

[Nestharus]

Really interesting ideas there mate. I hope you won't give up like some others untill you finish ur project and leave us for SC2 or something Cause i really would like to see this map in action.

Sadly, this project requires a team to do. As nobody is willing to help out, I'll probably have to forgo this for something I can do solo >.>.

 

[DooMsLiCe]

Sadly, this project requires a team to do. As nobody is willing to help out, I'll probably have to forgo this for something I can do solo >.>.

I was hoping you would finish this. It looked like it was going to be good. Someone help this man!

 

[Nestharus]

Yea, it's just not feasible for one person to terrain a 480x480 map, make all of the objects, make all of the systems, do all of the balancing, etc, etc, etc, plus manage the website, advertisement, and etc, etc, etc. If you look at the project, it's much bigger than your typical RPG/ORPG map.

The basic damage system alone was a combination of 6 or 7 different sub systems, including targeting, damage application, and etc. Yes, this doesn't include buffs, effects, spells or anything, it's literally like basic ApplyDamage >.>.

So, I'm thinking of just going with an old footmen wars map of mine now as I can prob do that solo : ). It's a lot less work.

There's no way I could ever make this map solo... it'd take me 5-10 years, rofl.

If you click on my Anti Cheat Project thread, that was actually started up for this map as well... and that's just one out of 100 to 200 dif systems I'd actually have to code... and that's just vjass...

In Lua, I have a variety of Object Editor creation snippets...

Then I have a tutorial on vJASS for the people who want to help out but want me to teach them how to code >.>...

yes, doing this solo is not feasible : P, especially when I have to personally train each person...

Then I'm the only one with profantasy software, so I'm the only one who can actually lay out the world graphically >.<.


Also, people who've tried to help with concepts have come up with cliche or ideas that didn't fit in with the rest of it, so the few people who were interested in helping out have given up.

And I'm hitting a dead end on filling out the story. I keep trying to make it logical, but pure fantasy is also good.

I also hit a dead end on a truly viable magic system... I've done research on different forms of magic and everything I find is bs, so it seems like nobody's actually made a scientific approach to magic yet >.>. Sure, mine seems dandy, but the problem is the actual patterns involved.... making them work off of each other and etc... elements don't even make sense, in my latest version I was working off of phases and power lines.

Yes, I have reformed the magic concept so many times I've lost count : P.

And yes, being able to play this map would be wonderful =), but while everyone is interested in playing it, nobody is actually interested in helping out, and the few that have been interested in non-concept work (like coding) have had absolutely 0 skills and have wanted me to personally teach them 1 on 1... ... ... ...

 

[aki15]

Sadly, this project requires a team to do. As nobody is willing to help out, I'll probably have to forgot this for something I can do solo >.>.

I think you should do this project... Team is not that required, maybe jassers, but if you are good terrainer/spellmaker etc.. Your map would be playable...

 

[Nestharus]

You missed the point. Yes, I can do everything and actually make it solo and it would be as epic as if there were a team.

but...

it'd take me 5-10 years

 

[DooMsLiCe]

You missed the point. Yes, I can do everything and actually make it solo and it would be as epic as if there were a team.

but...

I would wait if it's going to be that EPIC! The last time I did any sort of coding was high school, like 4-5 years ago. Imo Sc2 sucks and people should come back to wc3 and start making games. I kinda wish I had attempted to make a map back in the day when I remembered how or taken some more classes, but I didn't, so good luck with whatever u do.

 

[Nestharus]

You might willingly wait, but I don't want to spend 5-10 years on a map : D.

I am fully willing to do this map with other people though : ), lol.

/yes, nessy has gone on stike

 

[DamneDD]

Yeah i know what u mean, my friend made the map JFA, which basically is an AoS map and also hosted here; but it took him 7 years. LoL he pretty much started together with Dota. I'm not saying it took him 7 years to make a fully playable map but it took him at least 2 years or so to make it playable and since then he had been balancing it and adding new heroes etc.. I know him pretty well so i also know that he really is frustrated cause of having to work on the map all by him self. Doing triggers, coding, modeling, terraning etc all by ur self is a hassle. Specially if the map is big.

Anyways, maybe you should advertise for your map a bit and look for partners. Can't think of a better place than hive to do so...

 

[Nestharus]

I've advertised... on THW, on b.net, everywhere...

Results:
People interested in taking part want me to teach them vjass

People not wanting me to teach them something want to do simple concept work, and of those, only 2 were interested, and of those, all quickly lost interest.

Most who wanted to play an active role in the project wanted to be a tester...

One person was interested in object editor, but did not want to learn Lua.

Another person was interested in coding, but wanted to do it via GUI.

Two people have been interested in the secretary position, but they lost interest once I asked them to update thread.

About 20 people left emails. Of those, 5 responded. Of those, 0 stayed on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In short, most have been unqualified for the positions and have wanted me to personally train them 1 on 1 to make them qualified for the positions.

I gave up trying to recruit people last week.

 

[Adiktuz]

the concept looks too great, its pretty sad that no one wants to join...

if this would be a stand-alone game, this would surely go into a game of the year, and maybe even a game of the decade...

 

[SaRDaNaPaLoS_QQ]

Times like these i wish i'd prefered going to technical school over maths univercity :/

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Your idea is sound but your attempting the impossible;

To recruit experts in a dying field (war3 modding).

You'd probably have better luck doing it in sc2 or better yet an engine such as the UDK or Unity and making it standalone, you'd definitely find people to help you with it then.

It's like me, I'd love to help on a project as well thought out as this but I KNOW and ADMIT I don't have a huge wealth of war3 skills and don't plan on learning them now the game is slowly fading.

 

[Switch33]

I said before that I didn't know lua, because that was before i bothered to use some of it. I think I can at least understand some of the simpler lua scripts. I'm learning it. However, i think the main problem is just the project itself is just so complicated. Even if you churn out an demo of it i have no idea what the demo would even look like from all the complicated descriptions.

If you can churn out a good enough demo or some stuff that shows your work in action then you'll probably attract a bit more people. I can maybe help out with object editing and terraining, however like i said before i kinda want to get the "feel" of how things will be from a demo or something cause from the description I really can't tell much.

Also I have a project of my own;http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/siege-wars-184789/ I stopped updating the description for a while cause the project is on hold since i am considering switching a lot of things to your way of doing things.
I'd like to switch a few codes out for some of yours and completely change the coding for the better but I would need a new kind of
BuffStruct(the create lua for tornado buffs is already created in jass section, all thats needed is
a interface for the buffs),
MovementX(i can maybe code this myself),
Status(I think some parts of it would be worthwhile like stunning, hex, etc),
UnitProperties/BonusMod system(youtd did it extremely well so i might use his).
My major plan for my map at least will be to make it a framework for any kind of wc3 map able to simulate anything from wc3 but more modular to even the extent that spells can be slowed down and sped up or have chain reactions etc. These sorts of systems are probably somewhat on your list to code anyway though.

 

[Nestharus]

->These sorts of systems are probably somewhat on your list to code anyway though.

that they are

I already started some of them, I have a very big list : |


edits
The demo, using the previous system designs, would show a unit with 2 tiny wisp like balls representing its hands

Where o is object and u is unit
ouo

In its inventory would be 6 action buttons (item abilities run much more quickly than regular abilities ; |). From here, you could click action button for hand making your cursor turn into the target spell cursor (switches on an ability) and then you click a point and the hand associated with the button will move towards that point.

The hands themselves can be any shape (allowing for interesting combat with weapons like chains). As units come in range with the point, damage is dealt. Blocks are done by blocking another person's attack with your own thingies (shields are larger than weapons, thus better at blocking). From here, the weapon could break through the block depending on force and durability.

The more contact a weapon has with a unit, the more damage is dealt. This means that if a weapon was deflected and nicked a unit, it would deal minor damage. If the weapon ran straight through the unit, the unit might die.

The hands can be targeted by spells and etc allowing for more control over buffing, blocking, debuffing, and so forth.


That was the basic idea for physical combat. This idea requires units have a collision size that is at least the distance of the hands from the unit.'s center.



The spell idea worked by handcrafting spells, which many people said sounded cool on paper but was largely impractical.

Spells were crafted using different types of elements and shapes. For example, a simple fire spell might be a point with a fire node.

People asked what the point of doing complex spells was if you could put any amount of energy into a given node. Perhaps as nodes grow denser, their energy efficiency goes down ; P. For example, a fire node dealing 10 damage might require 4 energy whereas one dealing 100 dmg might require 200 energy. This means that if you really want to do potent spells, you have to do complex ones. Spell nodes (as they are called) can be targeted by spells. Multiple players can work on one spell. Any spell that has a constant effect requires energy for that entire effect or requires continuous energy (creating a summon that lasts 80 seconds would require energy enough to make it last for 80 seconds whereas making one indefinitely would require a constant stream of energy).

The next theory was that energy leaked from a spell as it was crafted. This meant that wands and staffs and the like would actually have a purpose. To make them more interesting, wands and staffs and etc were efficient at different flows of energy. For example, a large staff might only lose 20% with a flow of 500 mana but 80% with a flow of 10 mana. A small wand might lose 10% with a flow of 10 mana and 12% with a flow of 500 mana (if it could even go up to 500 mana). Each tool could only take a certain amount of energy before it burns out (imagine packing 10000 mana into a small stick, it'd explode). Smaller tools obviously are much more efficient, but can't handle as much. A small glove might only take 15 mana safely, but might only have a 1% mana loss (very useful for hybrid fighter/magic classes).

The magic casting system has no flaws that I can see ; p.


With this, another demo would feature a caster with different types of items with different efficiencies at different rates of power. You could also try casting a spell with your bare hands (might lose 98%+ mana). It would also feature a tutorial showcasing a few simple spells as well as a small AI so you can see how to counter spells (the longer a spell takes, the easier it is to counter, but counters can also be countered remember, this means that a mage vs mage duel would be very different from what you'd expect, constantly defending your spell while countering the other spell). Mages require a lot of strategy to play and the spells can get extremely complex. It'd be akin to chess to the nth degree (much harder and faster).


Because of this, both physical attackers and spell crafters are useful (spell crafting for your major damage and physical attackers to take out spell crafters and defend spell crafters against other physical attackers).


I'm starting to forgo the idea of a world map and give the entire game a more gamelike feeling, opting instead for a large number of dungeons with towns for each dungeon (like acts).


Each act would have 5 dungeons (where difficulty is suggested level)-

To unlock the next act, you only have to play the first 3 stages. The fourth stage is sort of a bossy event stage and the 5th is a boss stage.

My other idea was difficult modes of difficulty. Easy mode (which uses the below level layout) would just have regular monsters and players would get their primary gear from them.

Monsters are classified into 10 levels-
	1. Basic 
		Description: spider/rat 
		Difficulty Level: -2
	2. Weak regular monster 
		Description: wolf
		Difficulty Level: -1
	3. Regular monster 
		Description: goblin
		Difficulty Level: +0
	4. High end 
		Description: orc
		Difficulty Level: +1
	5. Elite 
		Description: ogre
		Difficulty Level: +2
	6. Unique Elite 
		Description: ogre captain
		Difficulty Level: +3
	7. Mini Boss 
		Description: Named
		Difficulty Level: +5
	8. Boss 
		Description: 1 (act 1-3, stage 5) (named)
		Difficulty Level: +7
	9. Regional Boss 
		Description: 1 per 3 acts (special stage) (named)
		Difficulty Level: +9
	10. Epic Boss 
		Description: 1 per 4 acts (act 4 stage 5) (named)
		Difficulty Level: +12

First Class: 
	Amount: 20%
	Difficulty: +0
Second Class: 
	Amount: 60%
	Difficulty: +0
Third Class: 
	Amount: 20%
	Difficulty: +0
Fourth Class: 
	Amount: 1
	Difficulty: +0
Fifth Class: 
	Amount: 1
	Difficulty: +0
Special Class: (Normal mode or higher)
	Amount: 1
	Stages: 1
	Difficulty: +1
Elite Class: (Hard mode or higher)
	Amount: 1
	Difficulty: +2
Chaos Class: (Chaos mode)
	Amount: 1
	Difficulty: +4

Easy Mode: 
	Normal Class: 1-3
	Mini Class: 4
	Boss Class: 5
	Special Class: NA
	Elite Class: NA
	Chaos Clas: NA
	Difficulty: -2
Normal Mode: 
	Normal Class: 2-4
	Mini Class: 5
	Boss Class: 6
	Special Class: 6
	Elite Class: NA
	Chaos Class: NA
	Difficulty: +0
Hard Mode: 
	Normal Class: 3-5
	Mini Class: 6
	Boss Class: 7
	Special Class: 7
	Elite Class: 8
	Chaoss Class: NA
	Difficulty: +2
Chaos Mode: 
	Normal Class: 4-6
	Mini Class: 7
	Boss Class: 8
	Special Class: 8
	Elite Class: 9
	Chaoss Class: 10
	Difficulty: +4

Field Stage:
	Regular Mosnters: True

Boss Stage:
	Regular Monsters: False

Region 1
	Act 1
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 4
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 5
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 6
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 8 (2 levels higher than previous stage) (beat this to unlock next act)
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 10 (2 levels higher than previous stage)
			Boss Class: Boss
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Boss
	Act 2
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 7 (difficulty of third stage from previous act +1)
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 8
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 9
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 11
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 13
			Boss Class: Boss
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Boss
	Act 3 (beat this through stage 4 to unlock next area)
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 10
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 11
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 12
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 14
			Boss Class: Mini
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 16
			Boss Class: Boss
			Minimum Difficulty: Easy
			Stage Type: Boss
	Act 4
		Stage 1:
			Difficulty: 20 (act 3 stage 5 difficulty +4)
			Boss Class: Special
			Minimum Difficulty: Normal
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 2: (hard mode or higher) (special class boss)
			Difficulty: 22
			Boss Class: Elite
			Minimum Difficulty: Hard
			Stage Type: Boss
	Act 5
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 32 (double act 3 stage 5)
			Minimum Difficulty: Hard
			Boss Class: Special
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 2:
			Difficulty 34 (2 levels)
			Minimum Difficulty: Hard
			Boss Class: Special
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 3:
			Difficulty 36
			Minimum Difficulty: Hard
			Boss Class: Special
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 4:
			Difficulty 40 (4 levels)
			Minimum Difficulty: Hard
			Boss Class: Elite
			Stage Type: Field
		Stage 5: (chaos mode)
			Difficulty 44 (4 levels)
			Minimum Difficulty: Chaos
			Boss Class: Chaos
			Stage Type: Boss
Region 2
	Act 1
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 14 (act 3 stage 4 difficulty)
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 15
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 16
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 18
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 20
	Act 2
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 17
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 18
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 19
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 21
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 23
	Act 3
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 20
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 21
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 22
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 24
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 26
	Act 4
		Stage 1:
			Difficulty: 30
		Stage 2:
			Difficulty: 32
	Act 5
		Stage 1: 
			Difficulty 52
		Stage 2: 
			Difficulty 54
		Stage 3: 
			Difficulty 56
		Stage 4: 
			Difficulty 60
		Stage 5: 
			Difficulty 64

 

[Switch33]

In its inventory would be 6 action buttons (item abilities run much more quickly than regular abilities ; |

Crap I don't even have a numpad. Hmm, is that an issue? Darn laptops?


To be honest your map ideas are so broad /complicated that you really should simplify at least for a demo stick to just combat systems for example.

 

[Nestharus]

Crap I don't even have a numpad. Hmm, is that an issue? Darn laptops?


To be honest your map ideas are so broad /complicated that you really should simplify at least for a demo stick to just combat systems for example.

no numpad would be a problem.

 

[Switch33]

I honestly think if your map really relies on something that not everyone has like hotkeys etc you should find a different way. You could try what tcx does-- have maximum heroes so you can use f1-f9 hot-keys. Again, those are kinda ugly on laptops but at least they are on laptopz.

Also i think items maybe can specify a keyboard key for hot-key.

 

[Nestharus]

Actually, I will probably do this for a 2D game now. Torque game engines at garagegames.com are now $99.00 each for a while (virtually free compared to what they were before, like $700 to $1000), so given that a lot of people I know are now buying them (meaning I won't be solo anymore for regular game dev), I will probably move my operations over there.

Honestly, I really suggest people buy them if they are interested in game development. That's one hell of an insane deal. I will be getting the 2D engien (already own the 3D, got it for a grand >.<). Figure 2D is good to start out with since 3D models are a lot harder to do than 2D sprites ;P.

 

[Switch33]

Do you mean you are not gonna submit any more scripts in the jass section really?

Darn, that kinda sucks. Guess i'm almost completely stuck with jesus4lyf's systems then to do what i want.

 

[Nestharus]

Do you mean you are not gonna submit any more scripts in the jass section really?

Darn, that kinda sucks. Guess i'm almost completely stuck with jesus4lyf's systems then to do what i want.

Or you could code them or Bribe could code them, lol.

Actually Sevion and I are learning T2D right now to start working on a 2D MMORPG adventure thingie (lack of artists would make 3D impossible atm ^_^). We're going to actually be doing this one ;D.

 

[Catch_ya]

So this is not gonna be in Warcraft? Sounds interresting though, and I might take a look at this garagegames.com.

 

[Nestharus]

So this is not gonna be in Warcraft? Sounds interresting though, and I might take a look at this garagegames.com.

Well, now it looks like we can't get anyone else other than us 2, so don't know. I've been working on random algorithms lately which help make this project more feasible, like save/load, AdvDamageEvent, etc. I wouldn't get your hopes up for this project, but you never know. If we don't get anyone, maybe.

 

[Catch_ya]

Well, now it looks like we can't get anyone else other than us 2, so don't know. I've been working on random algorithms lately which help make this project more feasible, like save/load, AdvDamageEvent, etc. I wouldn't get your hopes up for this project, but you never know. If we don't get anyone, maybe.

Okay, thanks good luck. Btw if you don't have time to make a system or somethin then I'm willing to help, I can do many of the possible things in vJass.

 

[Nestharus]

Lol, you sure about that?

Well, you can help me out with the checksum algorithm I'm working on

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1842618-post7.html


; D. I've been working on it for 2 days now, and it's a lot better than it was when I started ;P. Checksum collisions in it may seem arbitrary, but they aren't. I recently fixed the most serious one having to do with a weak middle. Swapping two values and decrasing the left most of the 2 by 1 would give you a working code for the given checksum in like 1 in every 50 values related to that checksum. Fixing that raised the thiing from 900k until 100 collisions (100 codes having the exact same checksum) to over 5 million while increasing the checksum size by a marginal amount (so small it's not even noticeable, it's like 219424292+1.=219424293, lol..), so yea...

How do you find weaknesses?
Retrieve 100 values of a given checksum and post the data online or read through the data yourself and look for any patterns (even if they seem *super* obscure). Also look for any values that are close to each other (close values means that it's easier to modify the code, even if there are only 2 close values out of 100).

You usually want to be working with the most common checksum value for a range (range doesn't matter, so might as well do lowest) (run the test I have up and it'll give you the that value). I usually have the checksum commented out (the proper one) in another test (so it's already up there, just needs to be run).

This would be a great help and would help me better secure the checksum algorithm.

The next thing I'll be going back to for a bit will be the data encryption, and then the save/load code will be down (quite secure and quite small).

The next point that would need work would be prevention of save/load code import into dummy maps (I'll be slowly working on that).

After that would be some sort of anti cheat stuff for online games (blocking anti cheat packs).

And then I have a million other things to do and like 40 scripts to update >.<.

So you can come on board, I can guarantee you'll be working hardcore ;P.

 

[Catch_ya]

Lol, you sure about that?

Well, you can help me out with the checksum algorithm I'm working on

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1842618-post7.html


; D. I've been working on it for 2 days now, and it's a lot better than it was when I started ;P. Checksum collisions in it may seem arbitrary, but they aren't. I recently fixed the most serious one having to do with a weak middle. Swapping two values and decrasing the left most of the 2 by 1 would give you a working code for the given checksum in like 1 in every 50 values related to that checksum. Fixing that raised the thiing from 900k until 100 collisions (100 codes having the exact same checksum) to over 5 million while increasing the checksum size by a marginal amount (so small it's not even noticeable, it's like 219424292+1.=219424293, lol..), so yea...

How do you find weaknesses?
Retrieve 100 values of a given checksum and post the data online or read through the data yourself and look for any patterns (even if they seem *super* obscure). Also look for any values that are close to each other (close values means that it's easier to modify the code, even if there are only 2 close values out of 100).

You usually want to be working with the most common checksum value for a range (range doesn't matter, so might as well do lowest) (run the test I have up and it'll give you the that value). I usually have the checksum commented out (the proper one) in another test (so it's already up there, just needs to be run).

This would be a great help and would help me better secure the checksum algorithm.

The next thing I'll be going back to for a bit will be the data encryption, and then the save/load code will be down (quite secure and quite small).

The next point that would need work would be prevention of save/load code import into dummy maps (I'll be slowly working on that).

After that would be some sort of anti cheat stuff for online games (blocking anti cheat packs).

And then I have a million other things to do and like 40 scripts to update >.<.

So you can come on board, I can guarantee you'll be working hardcore ;P.

I will see what I can do But I have to get abit 'into it' first. 40 scripts? Well thats alot, what kinda scripts is that? Also how small do you think the save/load will be?

 

[x3GlikE]

I can 2D Art and trigger -.-

 

[Nestharus]

I will see what I can do But I have to get abit 'into it' first. 40 scripts? Well thats alot, what kinda scripts is that? Also how small do you think the save/load will be?

All kinds of scripts ;|. And for save/load, really not sure anymore. Hoping to keep it around 20 chars and store 2x more than other maps =).

I can 2D Art and trigger -.-

Map'll be online, so there'll be minimum 2D art (models will typically run off of textures already in the game to keep small sizes, but 2D art can be pretty big). Also, the map'll have 0 GUI. I don't do maps with GUI in them. Even 1 line is 1 too many ;P.

I have been updating a vjass tutorial (very, very slowly). One person, who tried many vjass tutorials, commented that it was the best one he'd ever read and that he could finally understand vjass ;D (after one day). Only thing was him getting NewGen to run (he was having some weird issues, I still don't think it's running for him).

The team will be using NewGen WE, so if you don't have it, I suggest you get it.

This is a really easy guide to getting it set up http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ing-up-newgen-we-intro-trigger-editor-188349/

Just taking this one step at a time (unless T2D team picks up, then dunno, lol).

 

[Catch_ya]

All kinds of scripts ;|.

Hm, but some are simpler than other right?

And for save/load, really not sure anymore. Hoping to keep it around 20 chars and store 2x more than other maps =).

Nice!

The team will be using NewGen WE, so if you don't have it, I suggest you get it.

Every map maker should have this nomatter what.

 

[Nestharus]

Hm, but some are simpler than other right?

Most of the coding is system design (good coding). The other stuff would be grunt work, or content design (using a set of systems to like generate a dungeon :\, boring tedious crap).

So yea, I guess some is easy, but the stuff I need help working on would be the actual system stuff. Save/load is among the most simple of all of them, so if you consider that difficult, then the other stuff'll be hardcore ^_^.


And this is why the codes can be around half size: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/jass-functions-413/system-bigint-188973/

 

[frostloh]

nice, this looks like a RPG that im playing atm =)

 

[Nestharus]

Yawn, well, I'm working on 2.0.0.0 of the save/load system this will use...

then I'll get to the attack indexing...

then the projectile system..

then the spell system..

then the combat system..

: (

lol...


and the dungeon system will probably be a serious pain to do Oo. I might have to create a whole tool for that.


Doing a footmen wars map is starting to sound a lot more appealing, all I have left to do for that is evolution, spawn system, and a bounty retrieval system as well as update all of my gold/lumber cost retrieval stuff ^_^. Lot less work Oo.

But, already doing so much of the save/load I might as well stick with the RPG. At the very least, we can expect other online ORPG/RPG maps with save/load in them to have much smaller codes =P.

 

[tooltiperror]

/apply

 

[Nestharus]

Updated the thread to look nicer and updated position information.

Can't seem to find anyone that's interested Oo.


And me and sevion couldn't find anyone for the 2D game, so I'm trying to get this going again... I've finished quite a few of the necessary systems >.<... if you look in my profile at biography, you will see a massive list.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

I could help you, maybe as a story writer or for some ideas.

 

[Nestharus]

I could help you, maybe as a story writer or for some ideas.

Can you link a short story so that I can check it out?

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

Ok, ill write one. Im really so good though.
Link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=ivrxq2
Not finished though.

 

[Nestharus]

It looks ok =) (could be a lot better). Let me get everything settled on my side. We got another writer ^)^.

Interesting Idea
F1 through F12 hot keys can be used for something, like an action bar. We were originally thinking of using it as a potion belt, but that wouldn't do it justice since only the F1-F4 keys would possibly be used.

Given how magic works, not sure about a magic bar either (like in EQ). However, it could possibly be used for magical nodes... we shall see

another interesting thing is that the player's inventory can act as an action bar as well. Item abilities have the best response time (better than abilities, etc), so they are perfect to use for a variety of things. However, the problem is that their hot keys are along the numpad with hotkeys 1,4,7 and 2,5,8, referring to the 6 slot inventory. This makes them a pretty bad option.

So, when I think about it, perhaps a portion of the F1-F12 could be used for potions (F1-F4) and the rest could be used for actions (F5-F12).

This would get rid of the need of spellbooks for some sort of menu, so then we could use a spellbook based inventory system =D, thus allowing players to fully interact with their inventory while moving around and fighting, which was our goal.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

Maybe F5 to F12 could be some sort of interaction commands or something like that. Maybe F5 displays the world map. F6 to F12 could help if there are four computer controlled party members and they would basically just switch the players character to one of them.

 

[Gausslander]

Here, I used to be the main story writer for that big mapping group a year or two ago, forgot the name of it. I'll gladly help.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...reation-291/collection-concept-writing-94031/

 

[Nestharus]

Ok, sent you a pm with the details... still working on a bundle of scripts for the map ^)^, so I've been a busy bee =D.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

I received it. Have you worked on the terrain?

 

[Nestharus]

I'm not a terrainer, so no... the terrain is meant to be high quality ; |... I spent like 6 hours on a tiny island and gave up =P.

Yes, we need terrainers : O. Also, we need cartograhers, we can't really start on the terrain until we get them o-o.

 

[Gausslander]

I can terrain too, I did it for Craka_J's apocalypse project.

 

[Nestharus]

Yea, but again, without stuff laid out, you won't know what to terrain =P. It's much easier to fix mistakes in a cartographic map than it is to do so in hq terrain =P.

Also, do you meet the reqs for the terrainer position?

Be able to make natural nice looking terrain. Know techniques such as making a cave using rocks, water reflection, natural coast lines, natural vegetation, interior design (cell based), exterior design, and cliffs using plateus. Other knowledge may be necessary for this position. Also, be able to identify which models may be needed to get the job done.

Be sure to have a good eye for natural looking sizes. For example, the human barracks building is much too small relative to a footman. Terrainers will be in charge of scaling the overall map (from models to terrain).

Also be sured to add notes as to what areas should have what effects (dungeon traps, cinematic effects, etc).

I was dying on the scaling Oo.

edit
Everyone who can, get on msn >.<.


edit
Some new stuff has been going on with the team. We've been collecting all of the possible models we'll need for the project (~1000) and putting them into the map. Also, I've been coding like a crazy person =P (what's new?) ^)^.

So yea... we're still looking for people who are great with terraining. According to BlindMan, we need master terrainers, lol =D.

Also, we apparently now desperately need a modeler for editing models =P. There are a few models we want to use, but their file sizes are way too huge >.<. Lowering the quality of them would help lots. Also, we need some models for a few of the major characters in the map since we couldn't find any suitable models for them across THW and wc3c ^)^.

We've finally decided on a full custom combat system. We've also done some design on the first portion of Act 1 =).