The Old horde

[VeljkoM]

It is said really.All he wanted is peace.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah.
Damn Kil'jaeden!
If it was for Nerzhul, the Horde would never be.

 

[VeljkoM]

People you have all seen Zul'jin in warcraft 2 and wow right?
So can somebody please explain it to me why Zul'jin cut his arm to get out instead of rope ?Also when did that happened? In mouvie it seems like it happened when elves came to lordearon but Zul'jin has both arms in second war which is after that.

 

[Phoonix]

you see in the second war many things happened. at first the Forest trolls declined Orgrim Doomhammer offer to join the horde, however after Quel'Thalas allied itself with the human nations, he realized once the Alliance was done with the orcs, they would turn on the trolls. His subsequent capture by humans and rescue by the Horde lead him to join forces with the orcs for the Second War.

 

[Phoonix]

Zul'jin fought throughout the Second War, however Zul'jin grew furious when Doomhammer not only failed to destroy Quel'Thalas, but also abandoned his siege against the elves in favor of assaulting Lordaeron. Zul'jin and his armies stayed behind, slaughtering thousands of elves. Yet once it became clear the Horde had lost the war, his alliance fell apart, and the forest trolls returned to their savage and undisciplined ways, removing themselves from the Horde as quickly as they had joined, and Zul'jin "disappeared". Most believed he died under a hail of Alleria Windrunner’s arrows. However, Zul'jin had been captured and was tortured for hours on end, eventually losing his right eye. When his tormentors were attacked by a small troll war-band, Zul'jin seized the opportunity and cut off his own arm with a fallen spear to escape.

 

[VeljkoM]

But why didn't he cut the rope?I know all about second war from Warcraft 2.
Thank yo for answering when it was.

 

[Phoonix]

who said it was a rope? i think if you capture someone and imprison him you use a chain not a rope. ^^

 

[VeljkoM]

The in movie was a rope.And even if it was chain couldn't he then cut just his fist and not from shoulder?

 

[Phoonix]

i don't know. he probably though it looked cooler when he cut of his arm?

 

[VeljkoM]

Or the new Blizzard crew are bunch of idiots who don't care about consequences.
It isn't only mistake. My favorite is that Frostwolf clan never drank the demon blood but are green. Today color of uncorrupted orc is brown. And if Frostwolves were the only uncorrupted clan who are then brown orcs in outland ?

 

[Phoonix]

The Brown Orcs are the original. when they got corrupted the first time by the council they turned green. and the band that got corrupted after that turned red.

 

[VeljkoM]

It is just wow error.

 

[Deolrin]

No, actually, Phoonix is right. Besides, if we ignore WoW, that means a lot of important events didn't even happened? And WoW lore isn't completely screwed up(at least yet)

Anyways, Zul'jin is awesome. And I understand why he declared war on the horde - losing an eye AND an arm isn't something you forgive that quick. Now those Blood Elves assholes enter the horde... It really sucks.

Btw, for those who didn't see it yet. Take a look here.

 

[VeljkoM]

Orcs were corrupted once and only once when all chieftains except Thralls father drank the Manaroths blood. Frostwolves were never corrupted and yet they are green?

Then after the explosion in Dreanor the surviving orcs were gathered by demons and completely corrupted.

WoW lore is screwed 95%. And what important event? 100 death of bosses who re spawn and act like nothing has happened?

Zul'jin left the horde after second war and that was before wow was even been planed. He left because Orcs were losing and they didn't finished he destruction of Quel"thalas. The eye thing and arm thing were never been mentioned before. Take the tutorial in Warcraft 3 and you'll hear Thrall saying that he can't believe that Fores Trolls "were part of the horde". So Zu'jins injuries and blood elves didn't have anything to to with war between orcs and f. trolls.

Also I still think that he didn't have to cut whole arm. Wasn't it easier to cut just fist?

 

[AIagremm]

Mua-ha-ha-ha! Tremble mortals! After an eternity I have returned!
Now this realm is mine forever! You all shall pay! Doom has come to your world!

Translation:
Hey guys, Im back from Turkey where I was one week. Glad to see you all again.

 

[AIagremm]

Oh, and I think that corruption of the Frostwolves has somthing to do with the Red Pox.

 

[OMonaxos]

WoWwiki ftw

Anyway how the orcs lost at the Siege of Lordaeron?

 

[VeljkoM]

Because Guldan took Stormraver and twilight clan to Tomb of Sargeras and Doom hammer sent Blacktooth grin clan to take care of traitorous scum. So that is 3 clans less which was a big hit to the horde.

 

[Fussiler1]

Ogrim should first've took Lordaeron, quickly destroy all opposition and sail with many clans to pursue Gul'Dan. By the way, it was King Terenas who led the Lordaeron Forces at that battle.
And eh.. mind if I make a thread about what would've happened if the Orcs won the Second War?

 

[AIagremm]

Ask Phoonix. When I created Draenor thread he almlost killed me, and swore that he will do something horrible to the guy who makes a thread without his permission.

 

[VeljkoM]

Ask Phoonix but you can also say here what you want.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah! This is the Old Horde thread.
Write away!

 

[VeljkoM]

Also if Doomhammer attacked Lordearon before Guldan then maybe not only that Horde would be lost but also Guldan would grab the power for him self. Guldan took two major clans and that was great punch to the Horde.

 

[Fussiler1]

Major clans? He still had the Death Knights serving him and I know there were also warlocks in other clans. It couldn't be that weakened.

 

[VeljkoM]

There weren't any warlocks in second war. They were sacrificed by Guldan so he could raise Death Knights. Also all warlocks served Guldan and death knights carrying their essence would rather serve him then Ogrim.

 

[Fussiler1]

Don't you think Gul'Dan would've start teaching after the purging again?
Maybe you're right about the DeathKnights, but they still served Orgrim and not Gul'Dan.

 

[VeljkoM]

No he didn't or at least there was no mentioning of it.

 

[Fussiler1]

Following Gul'dan's desertion and death, part of the Horde, including the death knights, retreated through the Dark Portal to Draenor.
Quote from WoWwiki.
They would've been killed and destroyed if they followed Gul'Dan.

 

[VeljkoM]

May I burn wow wiki?
That just shows that Gul'dan was important and without him orcs have lost their moral. But from where exactly did you get that line.

 

[Fussiler1]

Topic about DeathKnights, somewhere in the part; ''Shadows of Justice''
Anyways, here I too must disagree. Most Orcs were brutish warriors, and in Gul'Dan they sure only must've saw an arrogant shit. I think they liked Orgrim a lot more, and they fell back because the Black Tooth Grin taking revenge on the two treacherous clans, and that gave the Alliance more moral and men.

 

[VeljkoM]

Gul'dan was powerful warlock and was respected for his power. Sure majority loved Ogrim more but the fact two clans were willing to betray Ogrim shows that even brutes can respect power.

 

[Fussiler1]

But those two clans were full of magician! The Stormreaver Clan was Gul'dan's own clan of warlocks and the Twilight Hammer Clan was the clan of an apprentice of him, Cho'gall, with lots of Ogre Mages.
I'll be gone for the rest of the evening now..

 

[Fussiler1]

Back.

 

[AIagremm]

The battle of Broken Isles is really interesting.
And mysterious. Its intersting that the remains of the Stormreavers clan still live.

 

[VeljkoM]

It wouldn't be a Blizzard if something impossible wouldn't happen.

 

[AIagremm]

Seriously. However its bad that in WC2 the tomb is a primitive... tomb cave.
But in WC3 its a great building in the hearth of Suramar.

 

[VeljkoM]

That was because lack of textures. Also you get to kill Gul'dan which isn't what happened in Warcraft 3.

 

[Fussiler1]

Indeed, that bitch just left his own and his apprentice's clan, maybe he just should've brought more men and then he could've succeeded.

 

[VeljkoM]

Strange how no warlock was in Warcraft 2 with Gul'dan. He was just in a hole with Cho'gal and army of deamons. Yes I mean deamons.

 

[AIagremm]

Actually they killed his decoy, while Gul'dan went into the Tomb.
And yes VeljkoM it is strange. The strangest thing is that the Stormreaver clans men who went in the Tomb with Gul'dan were shamans! In both some book and WC3!
How could this be?

 

[VeljkoM]

That is strange because:
1) Gul'dan is warlock
2) There weren't any shamans then in the Horde (not counting Frostwolf)

Maybe blizzard just forgot that they have warlock model?

 

[Fussiler1]

Aye.

 

[AIagremm]

When I played the Tomb of Sargeras map I also thought so.
But according to some book warlocks and shamans went in there.
Thats crazy! There were absolutely no shamans in the Horde except Drek'thar and some guy who served the Old Horde. He found the Demons Soul.

 

[VeljkoM]

The Blizzard guy said that books aren't exactly true to the lore. Only characters they use are in lore.

 

[AIagremm]

What would you believe: Official novel, or messed up WoW lore?

 

[VeljkoM]

Non of them. Official novels are big problem to Blizzard and WoW lore also made to many problems.

I only believe RTS lore and from lore manuals. Manuals have short version of some stuff that you can't see in game like Thralls beginnings, or War of the Ancients.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeap, thats true.

 

[Fussiler1]

Not true. Drek'that was a warlock in the second war, but then he returned to the right path..

 

[AIagremm]

Yeap he was. But that also doesnt make sence.
If he and his clan were not corrupted, how could he go to being warlock(especially because being in Frostwolf clan)
That means that there was only one shaman in the Horde, and even he served demons.

 

[VeljkoM]

What? He was a Frostwolf shaman and frostwolves never had warlocs. They were forced to exile for being shamans. (I still don't get how they were corrupted by fel magic according brown orcs)

Sorry is that from some book I need to burn\read.