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The Model Section

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by eubz, Mar 31, 2015.

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  1. bowser499

    bowser499

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    Indeed.
    upd: I will try it.
     
  2. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    Well you have point here, if we speak generally. If someone does that for free does not mean that he can do whatever he wants and be inactive all time ih his sections. Simply because many other people would do his job also for free but far much better and with greater activity.
    it is true that moderators work for free, but they knew exactly what is expected from them to do and what is their job, if they did not want this, they should not accept positions. I am talking this in case that someone intentionally does not do his job, not if he has valid reasons.
    I was talking about that years ago, and to prove my point ,,Zero tolerance" is perfect example back then when half of staff were demoted/banned due to not just that they did not do their jobs, but caused serious problems and damage to site.

    Now, about this very case:
    I am with General Frank and Ralle mostly here

    Exactly, those guys are doing good job here and not causing troubles at all.
    Misha is doing fine when he can. For example all my chaos buildings models, before they were uploaded completely as ,,bug free", I sent them to Misha first to review and tell me what to fix, and he always replies, he was always helpful.
    regarding MiniMage, this guy is awesome for now. he approved all of my models in short time. I haven't seen him to reject too much and to be harsh to people, so people should be grateful.

    Yes, it is in people's nature to always complain about something.

    I agree with that too. Especially those kids today. Just complain and wine about something, without thinking first.

    Map section is handled very well as far I know.
    Orcnet, StopCampign00b and their teams are doing reviews fine in professional way. Sure that it is a bit slower and takes time, but you get professional work done in turn. More professional that we did in past (although we had to deal with over 50 pending pages of maps so we need to deal quickly), so for now I am fine with those guys.

    I do not know much about spell section, but you seem to do awesome job too.
     
  3. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

    Map Moderator

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    I can't say much though, but...

    Pretty much Model Section has some sort of similarities to Other Sections, thus if I may suggest, like what Map Section has, a team of reviewers to handle the pending models. This way moderators can quickly set resources status based on reviews from several reviewers (this must be a little selective, they need to be good at the expertise).
     
  4. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

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    The issue is when the moderators themselves know nothing about good topology, unwrapping, and animation curves (which are pretty much the only things needed for 2002 era models).
    And you expect a group of "reviewers" to know any better?
     
  5. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    That depends of who is moderator and who reviewer.
    being moderator does not automatically mean that he knows everything. There are plenty of users around which knows equally or even better as moderators, but for some reasons they wont be in staff, or aren't called there yet.
     
  6. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

    Map Moderator

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    I have to agree with MasterHaosis.
     
  7. General Frank

    General Frank

    3D Modeling Moderator

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    The difference with maps and custom resources is that the map section requires a much more broad understanding of the matter whereas the resource section need a more focused insight on said resources.
     
  8. Quilnez

    Quilnez

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    They don't need new staff all the time. Demoting a staff and appointing new one just because the new one's better is insolent as well.

    And who said that you need to know everything to be a moderator? At least they need to have major expertise on the specified field, and they need to get along with normal users as well. There's just no way Ralle will appoint dick user which is hated everywhere to be moderator, it's like bringing this site down slowly. Expertise isn't everything to be a moderator. :)

    imo
     
  9. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    Yeah exactly. Map section was always specific about that.

    Where did I said that they need new staff and they should demote staff?

    I was replying to GhostWolf who said that map moderators do not know some basic things, yet again to be expected that from reviewers. But nobody said that they need to know everything.

    You completely misread what i said. I just made statement that there are users whose created better models than certain moderators and know much more than moderators. GhostWolf said ,,And you expect a group of "reviewers" to know any better?", so I was replying that itdepends of who is reviewer. if reviewer is just regular person, logically that GhostWolf's statement is correct, he wont know how to review model properly, but if review is someone experienced whose created tons of quality assets, he will know even better than moderator (which GhostWolf had in mind).
    I was just decent as user, and while I was map moderator, we had tons of users which were far better than me. So they could be awesome reviewers if we had that system back then. But you are right that being awesome at job does not automatically mean that you should be moderator, you also need to be good with people, but that is different topic.
    Nobody said about promoting moderators, we talked possibility about reviews, nobody said about ,,dick hated users" to be promoted. We had such in past, but also, different topic.
    Read carefully next time before replying.
     
  11. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

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    Except no one knows anything.
    Do you know who does? the people that no longer mod Warcraft 3, and are not going to be in either of those groups.
    That is because, for some reason, it's assumed to be fine if you know nothing about modeling, and you can stick a couple of pre-made parts together and call it a day.
    I've never seen a single post (except for a couple of mine) talking about the exact subjects I mentioned before - topology, proper unwraps, and animation curves (has anyone here even heard of using a checkers pattern...?)

    And no, unlike maps, which are not the subject of this thread, you actually do need to know all of those things to make proper models.

    But hey, with a bit of standards, there wont be models on this site, because like I said, this whole community just got used to bad resources being considered good.
     
  12. Quilnez

    Quilnez

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    @GhostWolf:
    I'm not sure what kind of expression is that

    @MasterHaosis:
    Perhaps just ignore that line. I misread your post.

    I was just stating my opinion why this happen:
    I'm pretty sure I have read your post carefully but wasn't aware of GhostWolf's post.

    What I meant with "They don't need new staff all the time." was maybe the space (for new staff) is full (unavailable) => maybe they need to demote one before promoting the new one, which is insolent. Again, this is related to why those people aren't in the staff rank yet: the space is full, it's impossible to demote previous staff with new one etc ... .

    Agreed. But again, I wasn't concerned about that part.

    Yeah nobody, not me as well. I was just examplifying why expertise isn't everything to be a moderator.

    I wasn't stating my opinion clearly, I'm sorry.
     
  13. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Let it all out... There we go.

    Let's see... Pending models... Rage... Low quality models... Topology and unwrapping... Evil moderators... Oh yeah, MasterHaosis.

    People use the models on this site for their maps and get decent results. The models may not be Blizzard or Electronic Arts quality but they are decent for maps for this 10 year old game. Heck sometimes even indie game authors ask me if they can use your models. I tell them they must give credit and if they want to sell the games they make, they have to ask you directly. The models aren't perfect but they are still worth a lot to many of us.

    We are working on getting the number of pending resources down, but as many of you say, moderators do this for their own pleasure. It's what they do when they come tired home from school or work (or sometimes at work). I understand that 4 months may seem like a long time and it is. But it's not like a model submitted today will wait 4 months to get approved. Some models are stuck in pending because we need to decide what to do with them. Many of them are low quality or simple edits but may still be useful. The high quality models are usually approved much quicker. I know this may be "unacceptable" to some of you, but that's the way it is and I am working to fix it.
     
  14. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang

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    That pretty much sums it up.
     
  15. MiniMage

    MiniMage

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    Don't be. Stop uploading attachments en-masse. That's the issue.

    False.

    Sorry, I'm allergic to bullshit. I wake up at 05:00 and get home at 19:30 and people still feel they are entitled to bitch and moan. I'm not sure why you are attempting to make demands when you don't even make models. People are uploading attachments en masse. The entire pending list is the result of less than ten people mass uploading attachments because they assume that it's a cheap workaround, as a completely unmoving model couldn't possibly have any clipping errors, awkward movement or anything else that might send the model to needs fix. But they forget that by mass producing generic swords, they are being unoriginal as fuck.

    I don't mind help, but the final say is the moderating moderator. I don't mind if you apply effort to the judgement. It will help enrich my judgement when I finally get to it. Or not, depends on if I find your judgement accurate or not. But who cares, in the end, you're still having fun, do you not?

    Thank you, but to be fair, I'd love to be the strict,objective and harsh old me, but Ralle does not allow it. I've been told to be nice, fuzzy and overly sensitive, but I'm not Misha nor Ralle. My thought process doesn't work that way.

    Denied.

    Just because you know how to build does not essentially mean you know how to judge and to critique properly nor objectively. Just look at GhostWolf, he has the capabilities and knowledge of model creation, but qualifications for teaching akin to that of a dusty old brick. He couldn't drop a decent critique if it would save his life.

    My biggest question when you begin your rants is why you don't just run off to them and give them a hug. They are not dead, they are very much alive, Full on game developing last time I heard. We've never been taught how to. We were never taught the process. We've learned by experimenting. Do a little this and a little of that, and hey, after a few years we know enough to get the job done with decent level of quality.

    Let me give you an analogy. The higher quality models are gold. The crappier models are coal. If we wait a couple million years, the coal will be diamond. Thus by comparison, four months is not a long waiting time. Apply more effort and be rewarded in turn, that is all there is to it.
     
  16. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I am speaking about moderation in general not the model section specifically. If a moderator don't have time to moderate he/she should not be a moderator does that really need to be said?

    If don't think I am being very demanding when I say 4 months is too much wait time no mater which section. If you think the models are so lame leave them unrated but approved. Or instantly reject them, I don't give a fuck. It's still better than nothing. If you wouldn't take it so personal that would be great, I am speaking (or maybe writing) while keeping in mind that there are 5 model mods that are 4 months behind schedule.
     
  17. MiniMage

    MiniMage

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    Tried that, People got worried, Ralle got scared and here we are.

    There can never be a "behind schedule". There is no schedule.
    Be grateful and stop being such a little spoiled brat.

    I was putting it nicely. Now kindly fuck off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  18. Ralle

    Ralle

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    I can see where you are coming from MiniMage, but it's time to tone down the anger. I appreciate that you are firm and take no bullshit but your recent few posts are too offensive.
     
  19. MiniMage

    MiniMage

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    Right right.. Aw yiss, niceness. Being insulted. Nice nice. I'm off to do some more niceness.
    I'll tie my hands behind my back again and return to the shadows.
     
  20. Ralle

    Ralle

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    You are supposed to be above insults and give back with a firm professional tone, not this crap you've posted so far. Also, now you are disrespecting me, that's nice. I appreciate it.
     
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