The importance of knowledge in the business world

[Zombie]

After bashing the BRD, then being told to move this away from WYDT and after a private discussion I had with Boris Spider, I decided to contribute a thread to the issue.

What's the material importance of knowledge in today's business-oriented world?

For example, a lot of people are seemingly rightfully bashing the American level of education due to their lacking world-awareness and overdone patriotism, but the corporate elite of the USA are still leaders of the world's economy, which describes that the higher education of the States is world-wide excellent. Since therein, (compared to the rest of the world) you can easily get a job without having to obtain a university degree or a diploma, the Americans are not really to be blamed for being so "ignorant"?

The point is: anyone thinks that there is no actual need in the business world for having more knowledge than what's needed to be used as a resource (or I need to know where Budapest is, so that inhabitants of countries jealous of my well-being have to find another excuse to bash me)?

 

[Lich Prince]

Why not make this thread in the Medivh's Tower sub-forum? I doubt you'll get much serious discussions or debates here.

Sorry for this OT post, but it's one of many others you will see.

 

[Fussiler1]

MT is a bit dead.

Anyways, meh, knowdledge isn't really anything, it's more about the experience in my opinion.

 

[Geazergimli2]

I myself, am also american, but as you said about other nations bashing on our society is perfectly correct, to some degree that is... i mean every nation has mistakes, its just not thrown all over the place as it is with us... i mainly don't hear much about other nations living in America, unless its something major like a Land Slide, or Tsunami. I just had a foreign exchange student come in class today, saying that she hears a lot of bad things about america when she lived in Taiwan, but when she moved here, it wasn't as bad as she thought, and she now really enjoys living here... but as for our business world... i donno whats up! we just need to eliminate our national deficit! cause its outrageous... cmon Obama wth.....

 

[Boris_Spider]

Why not make this thread in the Medivh's Tower sub-forum? I doubt you'll get much serious discussions or debates here.

Sorry for this OT post, but it's one of many others you will see.

Because then members such as myself wouldn't be able to post. I have no access to MT.

...For example, a lot of people are seemingly rightfully bashing the American level of education due to their lacking world-awareness and overdone patriotism, but the corporate elite of the USA are still leaders of the world's economy, which describes that the higher education of the States is world-wide excellent. Since therein, (compared to the rest of the world) you can easily get a job without having to obtain a university degree or a diploma, the Americans are not really to be blamed for being so "ignorant"?

The point is: anyone thinks that there is no actual need in the business world for having more knowledge than what's needed to be used as a resource (or I need to know where Budapest is, so that inhabitants of countries jealous of my well-being have to find another excuse to bash me)?

Making cheeseburgers and fries at restaurants and/or holding signs by the road are the easiest jobs to get, yes. But you would be living below poverty if you were supporting anyone besides yourself. Most of the people working these jobs work at least 3 of them just to stay in debt. The education, not just college/university, is generally what teaches you how to manage your affairs and what to avoid, in theory.

The education system fails americans at all grade levels. High School basically teaches you that your special and you can't fail, then tosses you out into the world.

In the business world, the more knowledge you have or have access to, the better off you'll be. The american, and by extension the world, is a capitalistic economy. Capitilism is system in which evverything is a commodity, commodities are to be exploited. If you don't understand how a particular thing works, how do you exploit it? How do you expand into other businesses after you've gained a monopoly in your original field? How can you make decisions on matters you're uniformed/uneducated in? Will you simply trust the advice of others, who've their own interests in mind?

MT is a bit dead.

Anyways, meh, knowdledge isn't really anything, it's more about the experience in my opinion.

Experience is simply a means of gaining knowledge. It's the most difficult way, in regards to consequences of misunderstanding.

//\\o0//\\

 

[Zombie]

Making cheeseburgers and fries at restaurants and/or holding signs by the road are the easiest jobs to get, yes. But you would be living below poverty if you were supporting anyone besides yourself. Most of the people working these jobs work at least 3 of them just to stay in debt. The education, not just college/university, is generally what teaches you how to manage your affairs and what to avoid, in theory.

Maybe on world-wide levels, that applies, but as far as my information goes, a conductor in the USA earns as much as a university teacher and a cartoon animator combined does in Europe. Granted, the prices are different, but I'm pretty sure despite the differences, the poverty rate of uneducated people is much lower in the US than pretty much anywhere else. There's a higher need of education in Europe, especially in the post-commuist parts of it, where you indeed can't even make fries without a university degree.

The education system fails americans at all grade levels. High School basically teaches you that your special and you can't fail, then tosses you out into the world.

Exactly. High school doesn't cover the entirety of the US education system though.

In the business world, the more knowledge you have or have access to, the better off you'll be. The american, and by extension the world, is a capitalistic economy. Capitilism is system in which evverything is a commodity, commodities are to be exploited. If you don't understand how a particular thing works, how do you exploit it? How do you expand into other businesses after you've gained a monopoly in your original field? How can you make decisions on matters you're uniformed/uneducated in? Will you simply trust the advice of others, who've their own interests in mind?

Sure, sure but the point is; you don't need education you don't immediately turn into a resource or commodity, do you? Why should the world frown at you for not having knowledge you don't need?

I myself, am also american, but as you said about other nations bashing on our society is perfectly correct, to some degree that is... i mean every nation has mistakes, its just not thrown all over the place as it is with us... i mainly don't hear much about other nations living in America, unless its something major like a Land Slide, or Tsunami. I just had a foreign exchange student come in class today, saying that she hears a lot of bad things about america when she lived in Taiwan, but when she moved here, it wasn't as bad as she thought, and she now really enjoys living here... but as for our business world... i donno whats up! we just need to eliminate our national deficit! cause its outrageous... cmon Obama wth.....

Lawl, I don't think there's any country with a higher immigration rate than the US, and it has been like that for a while. Though, you raised a point: Isn't stereotypical thinking of a certain group of people as ignorant an act of ignorance as well?

Why not make this thread in the Medivh's Tower sub-forum? I doubt you'll get much serious discussions or debates here.

I don't deem the existence of MT necessary. People can be serious if they want to and I don't want to force seriousness onto anyone either. All that's to it is that people should realize they lose nothing by not pressing "post" after writing some bullshit into the box.

 

[Vosty]

In the United States, having a good education is CRUCIAL to getting a good job nowadays. The number of people compared to the number of jobs is through the roof, and so if someone is willing to pay an American (Instead of outsourcing, which is much easier, but seems to piss everyone off*) they most likely will find someone who is best at the job, and will do the job right. For some reason, human resource departments find people who have second education fit to do the job best, even though someone else might have way more work ethic. I don't currently worry about jobs right now (I'm 15, and my parents pay me more to work at their farm than some adults they know make) but by viewing in and out of the media, it is extremely obvious that the job market has collapsed, due to many factors, such as less people are retiring early since social security sucks and the economy is bad. Less people are seeking their dream jobs and are focusing on just sustaining themselves. Minimum wages keep being raised, so instead of several people getting shitty paychecks, companies either have to outsource or only hire one guy instead (So minimum wages actually hurt the US.) And of course, immigrants.

Right now in Wisconsin, US, it is election time, and there are a couple major issues: Healthcare, education, debt, and jobs. America really sucks at education and jobs, due to major debt, which has a few causes. Tax cuts for the rich is one stupid cause, because most wouldn't even notice paying taxes anyway. Major Fraud is another. Debt keeps building up because we keep borrowing, and the government keeps giving money to companies to bail themselves out. I'm not saying capitalism is a bad thing, but greed is. Another reason education sucks is because generally the teachers are awful. I did a small report for school on how difficult it is to fire a teacher. It takes about 2-3 months to get a teacher removed, and the amount of different steps that have to be taken is unimaginable, even if the teacher say, had sex with a few students. Most superintendents are not willing to get rid of a teacher because of the work it poses. HOWEVER, it is extremely simple to have the teacher sent to another school, which means shitty, pedophile teachers can float around the system, meaning if it gets better in one place, it sucks somewhere else. Without proper education, kids aren't getting that great of jobs, and America is having to rely on places like India to get its engineers and programmers. The ratio of consumers to engineers in the US is astounding, which is why America relies on the technology of many other countries.




*I have never understood why people hate out sourcing so much. People will give all sorts of money to help the kids in Pakistan at Nike, but when it comes to kick starting their economy by giving them actual jobs, people go batshit. I read a story on how one man, by outsourcing, saved enough money to create 300 new jobs in America. Sure, the 500 jobs he outsourced could have been useful here, but in the sense of the greater good, he gave 800 people jobs!

 

[Boris_Spider]

In the United States, having a good education is CRUCIAL to getting a good job nowadays. The number of people compared to the number of jobs is through the roof, and so if someone is willing to pay an American (Instead of outsourcing, which is much easier, but seems to piss everyone off*) they most likely will find someone who is best at the job, and will do the job right. For some reason, human resource departments find people who have second education fit to do the job best, even though someone else might have way more work ethic. I don't currently worry about jobs right now (I'm 15, and my parents pay me more to work at their farm than some adults they know make) but by viewing in and out of the media, it is extremely obvious that the job market has collapsed, due to many factors, such as less people are retiring early since social security sucks and the economy is bad. Less people are seeking their dream jobs and are focusing on just sustaining themselves. Minimum wages keep being raised, so instead of several people getting shitty paychecks, companies either have to outsource or only hire one guy instead (So minimum wages actually hurt the US.) And of course, immigrants.

Right now in Wisconsin, US, it is election time, and there are a couple major issues: Healthcare, education, debt, and jobs. America really sucks at education and jobs, due to major debt, which has a few causes. Tax cuts for the rich is one stupid cause, because most wouldn't even notice paying taxes anyway. Major Fraud is another. Debt keeps building up because we keep borrowing, and the government keeps giving money to companies to bail themselves out. I'm not saying capitalism is a bad thing, but greed is. Another reason education sucks is because generally the teachers are awful. I did a small report for school on how difficult it is to fire a teacher. It takes about 2-3 months to get a teacher removed, and the amount of different steps that have to be taken is unimaginable, even if the teacher say, had sex with a few students. Most superintendents are not willing to get rid of a teacher because of the work it poses. HOWEVER, it is extremely simple to have the teacher sent to another school, which means shitty, pedophile teachers can float around the system, meaning if it gets better in one place, it sucks somewhere else. Without proper education, kids aren't getting that great of jobs, and America is having to rely on places like India to get its engineers and programmers. The ratio of consumers to engineers in the US is astounding, which is why America relies on the technology of many other countries.




*I have never understood why people hate out sourcing so much. People will give all sorts of money to help the kids in Pakistan at Nike, but when it comes to kick starting their economy by giving them actual jobs, people go batshit. I read a story on how one man, by outsourcing, saved enough money to create 300 new jobs in America. Sure, the 500 jobs he outsourced could have been useful here, but in the sense of the greater good, he gave 800 people jobs!

~I agree in regards to teachers. That should not be a union job, as students aren't products on an assembly line. I'm not bashing unions, they're needed, but not for teachers because of the reasons you listed and more. It's not all their fault however, courtesy of Bush's "No Child Left Behind Act" teachers are forced to consistently test us. That approach encourages kids to memorize solutions to problems already solved rather than to learn how to approach and solve problems. Teachers, the good ones, can't really do their jobs.

~Debt is a problem because people don't understand it's bad. There is no good debt. They want everything now, and can't recognize the consequences of that attitude.

~The US is a consumer society. The problem is that the US no longer makes anything. We've sold ourselves off basically via outsourcing. Outsourcing is bad. When those jobs go overseas, so does some of that pay. People can't buy as much when they have less money to buy with.

~Your outsourcing story makes little sense, possibly because you only included parts of it. The 800 people with new jobs (an unlikely number) aren't going to be making a living wage. They won't have any kind of security or benefits.

~Capitalism couldn't exist without greed. It's the core of the concept.

~Today's minimum wage is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago.

~My city was once a major production area for GM. When they outsourced most of their jobs 30 years ago, it was to 'save money and maintain competiveness.' (a.k.a. Bullshit) They had a profit margin of approximately $20 billion and only 'saved' an additional $4 billion by paying Mexican and Canadian workers a fraction of the pay american workers were making with little, if any, benefits. My city's economy is entierly dependant on the surviving retirees. When the last of them die, the rotting corpse of my city will collapse. There's nothing here. The list can go on, but it all boils down to some CEO wanting more money he'll never be able to spend in his lifetime (realistically).

Now tell me, how did that outsourcing help anyone? The original workers lost there jobs, a city lost it's economy, countless more workers gained jobs that payed them less then a living wage, and some rich guy got a little richer. Where is this 'greater good' or 'silver lining' that you speak of? The people who gained jobs were probably promoted to 3-4 part time jobs to go hungry most of the time.

-All of these problems trace back to a poor education. Teachers have the most important and sensitive job in society, as well as the most underated and ignored job in society. Be aware that the kids in your classrooms will work in companies and governments in the future. Those 'idiots' or 'morons' or 'smart-asses' or <inser common phrase> will be future leaders and followers, both of which are key to doing anything.

//\\oo//\\

 

[The World Is Flat]

Heres somthing you might be interested in; my uncle's doctoral dissertation of the price of an adequate high-school education in vermont. http://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=open_access_dissertations

I had a very interesting debate about world-consumerist society with a friend of mine.

Basically we concluded that world-society (especially american consumerisim) is a consumer society. We concluded that as beings, humans are consumers, so it is impossible to avoid consumerisim.

Now speaking of education, American teacher's and tenured positions are completley hogwash, if a teacher is good, that should be more than enough to keep that position.

Another issue is that teaches do not recieve adquate pay. unions don't help either, they either directly or indirectly hurt the student in the process of bartering with the state.

most american has been taught to belive he can do anything however he wants to do it. and for the most parts its true, an american without a highschool diploma can get any job at any drugstore or wal-mart he wants.

Basically, americans are dumb and getting dumber, and i give it a few years before we reailze that the reason there was this depression is that we the american people have been allowing other people (educated businessmen) to capitalize and place bets on what we will do, (and then they herd us in that direction like cattle)

There are alot of bright americans, but the majority of people and families have under-educated children who will just be another beast in the herd, manipulated by the educated, who then teach and educate their own children... (Dynasties anyone?)

I have alot more to say, but i'm tired.

 

[Vosty]

~I agree in regards to teachers. That should not be a union job, as students aren't products on an assembly line. I'm not bashing unions, they're needed, but not for teachers because of the reasons you listed and more. It's not all their fault however, courtesy of Bush's "No Child Left Behind Act" teachers are forced to consistently test us. That approach encourages kids to memorize solutions to problems already solved rather than to learn how to approach and solve problems. Teachers, the good ones, can't really do their jobs.

Well, now that all kids HAVE to learn, the ones who can't pull behind all those who would like to pull ahead. I went to a parochial school where all the kids took top notch education classes, even if they weren't that smart (Because class sizes were so small, 1on1 education was extremely available, so any struggles got the help they needed.) In since education is being cutback, class sizes are getting quite epic. It's not bad in my high school classes, since honors classes are kinda small, but in simple classes, I hear it is really congested.

~Debt is a problem because people don't understand it's bad. There is no good debt. They want everything now, and can't recognize the consequences of that attitude.

Let's pay for it tomorrow is now just habit. It is extremely hard for kids to learn that when their parents do it.

~The US is a consumer society. The problem is that the US no longer makes anything. We've sold ourselves off basically via outsourcing. Outsourcing is bad. When those jobs go overseas, so does some of that pay. People can't buy as much when they have less money to buy with.

Since markets have become extremely global, so has jobs. Now their just helping everyone else catch up.

~Your outsourcing story makes little sense, possibly because you only included parts of it. The 800 people with new jobs (an unlikely number) aren't going to be making a living wage. They won't have any kind of security or benefits.

The 300 americans still got normal wages and benefits, after the company expanded from raking up enough money from outsourcing. Sure, the 500 in Pakistan might have gotten shit wages, but any job is better than no job when you're poor as dirt.

~Capitalism couldn't exist without greed. It's the core of the concept.

But excessive greed is what is shutting it down. Soon it will learn though, so I'm not too worried about it, since most CEO's are educated, and learn from mistakes.

~Today's minimum wage is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago.

In some places.

~My city was once a major production area for GM. When they outsourced most of their jobs 30 years ago, it was to 'save money and maintain competiveness.' (a.k.a. Bullshit) They had a profit margin of approximately $20 billion and only 'saved' an additional $4 billion by paying Mexican and Canadian workers a fraction of the pay american workers were making with little, if any, benefits. My city's economy is entierly dependant on the surviving retirees. When the last of them die, the rotting corpse of my city will collapse. There's nothing here. The list can go on, but it all boils down to some CEO wanting more money he'll never be able to spend in his lifetime (realistically).

I'm not saying all outsourcing ends well. I'm just saying that extreme nationalism is causing people to overreact a bit to other people getting jobs.

Now tell me, how did that outsourcing help anyone? The original workers lost there jobs, a city lost it's economy, countless more workers gained jobs that payed them less then a living wage, and some rich guy got a little richer. Where is this 'greater good' or 'silver lining' that you speak of? The people who gained jobs were probably promoted to 3-4 part time jobs to go hungry most of the time.

No. This CEO wasn't a greedy bastard. To stay in business and to stop downsizing (100-200 people were going to get cut) he just simply moved all the jobs that he had. With the money he saved (instead of keeping it) he made more American jobs, that were all normal jobs with healthcare and benefits and shit. Like I said, the pakistan people got poorer jobs, but hey, they still got jobs.

-All of these problems trace back to a poor education. Teachers have the most important and sensitive job in society, as well as the most underated and ignored job in society. Be aware that the kids in your classrooms will work in companies and governments in the future. Those 'idiots' or 'morons' or 'smart-asses' or <inser common phrase> will be future leaders and followers, both of which are key to doing anything.

In a few schools, companies are actually investing in kids to get new programs, like Cisco is doing a tech-ed push in my school, because the government is so bad at it.
It all basically boils down to how bad the government is doing at funding schools.

 

[mrzwach]

I don't really understand why some Americans think that they should be entitled to things like health-care, great job security, and far better wages than the majority of the world's population simply by the virtue of being American.

@teachers being underpaid, partially the low pay for teachers is so that you don't have greedy teachers who are just in it for the money, and don't actually care about teaching anything.

 

[The World Is Flat]

It also turns away people who would normally teach, but it only provides about 25 thousand a year? that is incredibly low especially for somone with enoumous debt to pay off.

 

[Vosty]

I don't really understand why some Americans think that they should be entitled to things like health-care, great job security, and far better wages than the majority of the world's population simply by the virtue of being American.

America is so used to having these things, we've basically become greedy fags.

 

[The World Is Flat]

WE Belive we've earned it.

We are also really dumb about getting it...

WOHOO! says half of america. GO PRIVATIZED HEALTH CARE!!! AND SHOTGUNS!!! and... jesus! (and i'd say half of the so called christians in the US acually follow christian belifs. I admire a good christian, but most of them are just total $%#@ who do what their pastors tell them.)

Enuf ranting.

 

[Devine]

America is not the only country who suffers from this.
http://www.godhatessweden.com/

 

[The World Is Flat]

Who suffers from: We are big bad bitches who should own everything in the world?

Who suffer from... Aryanisim?

 

[JetFangInferno]

Knowledge is about application of things you've learned. Otherwise, your brain is just a sponge that soaks in information, but occasionally squeezes itself, and everything you "learned" disappears. Unless you practice it, you cannot have knowledge.

Knowledge is obviously important because without it, how can you make valid judgments about the economy? With experience and application of knowledge, you will be informed. You'd just be standing on terra incognita.