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The Greek Crisis

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by UchihaSasuke.gr, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    But I'm sure that everyone is blaming Greece because they were so 'indisciplined' lately, Kosovo, Israel, Libya and other chapters regarding NATO and EU, where they didn't blindly followed the orders of "high-ranked" members of these organizations, so I understand this like some sort of punishment. I don't think that many other countries in EU are faring better, now countries like Slovenia and Slovakia who have much smaller BDP and living standard must now pay for what, greek people won't see this money anyway, it's for french and german, basically paying back the 'big bosses'. It's true that Greece could be more disciplined as in paying taxes regularly and evading taxes not being a national sport, however this may be actually a good thing, a good economy would give others no other means than war to weaken them, like we see libyan scenario.

    And for Macedonia I have no fear. So far it isn't under threat from powerful military organizations, so they are free to deal with albanian problem theirselves and Greece can't do shit as any sort of invasion it would be a terrible, terrible mistake.
     
  2. -W3SK3R-

    -W3SK3R-

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    Also EU is not on our side, they are saying "Please solved the problem with the name" in other words "Change the name and you will have invitation in EU" As i watched on HR1 on Dnevnik i heard that there might going to have Balkan War 3 between Serbia, Kosovo, Albania,BiH, Macedonia and Ellada. That crise in Gayladda is making lots of problems to the Balkan. I will say don't join in EU they are controlling your life and making it worst!!
     
  3. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    France should have never let Greece into the EU, and Germany foolishly made no attempt to block France's moves to invite Europe's poor into the EU party house.

    I'm not even sure there's any solution to this problem at this point. Every option would likely have disastrous economic consequences for all parties involved. It might just be best to let Turkey annex Greece.
     
  4. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    Uhm dude Greece is already 30 years in EU. Back in time there was no sign of any crisis.

    And bring the whole Turkey to your home if you love that much. The last thing we need in EU is some backwards country, there are already too much Turks in Germany and they are causing nothing more that trouble. And how do you know their economy is better? It's just because they are not in EU you can't get an insight in their economy.
     
  5. trolman

    trolman

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    You guys protest too much about everything and constantly block borders and drain EU money.My country is way worse but we're used to it and dont go whinin like some biachi.
     
  6. Maker

    Maker

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    Message to all Greeks: Please enjoy my money.
     
  7. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    This is true, we have it much worse... pansions and even monthly salaries are at lower minimum than Greece. There are other countries like Ireland, Spain, Portugal... what would happen if they started doing the same, EU would crumble lol.
     
  8. trolman

    trolman

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    Hahaha lol my country is even worse than those! Infact we're worst in europe "yay"!
     
  9. -W3SK3R-

    -W3SK3R-

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    If i were i wouldn't going to pay a cent to those lazy Greek arses! Yeah Maker you/parents are working to have for home some money and now some lazy gipsies are going to steall your money. What a "democracy" country of Greece... shame on them.
     
  10. Pharaoh_

    Pharaoh_

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    Speak of our government, not every Greek person, because this thread is becoming too offensive to follow.
     
  11. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    Irrelevant, if the French leaders knew anything about economics they'd see why letting all these small countries into the EU is a bad idea. Whether they were in crisis or not is irrelevant, the whole concept of the EU is flawed. The Europeans just focused on the beneficial aspects and completely ignored the negative ones. It makes sense for France, Germany, Italy, and other countries with decent economies to have the same currency, but it's illogical to let in all these tiny countries.

    I wasn't suggesting that, I was saying that Turkey might as well annex Greece, so Europe won't have to deal with them, and Turkey get's a piece of their old empire back.



    That was just a joke, btw. =P
     
  12. trolman

    trolman

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    Yes we love those jokes, here on the balkans. -.-
     
  13. -W3SK3R-

    -W3SK3R-

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    Yes real joke dude real joke...!
     
  14. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    You refer Greece to be a tiny country? o_O And if really tiny country wouldn't be causing much trouble, for example Iceland has like 300k people, basically a village. My country has 2 million and still less that some european metropolis. And Greece wasn't in crisis back then, after all tourism was running smoothly.

    I'd rather see nazi Germany back than turkish empire. No, I'm not joking. So you better be quiet about things you don't know. Apparently you are not that history expert as you claim to be...
     
  15. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    In comparison to France or Germany yes. In terms of size, population, and it's economy.

    You're argument makes no sense, look at how much trouble Greece is causing, and they ARE tiny. Iceland too. It's Europe's small countries that are dragging everyone down.

    Did you even read my post? Their economic stability during their admission to the union is irrelevant. The reason why they shouldn't have been admitted is because it just doesn't make sense economically. Without the benefit of hindsight, France should have easily known that when they went on a crusade to open the doors, and Germany should have known better too.


    I'm well aware of the fact that the Turks ruled the Balkans for several hundred years. Yet if you should hate anyone it should be the EU bureaucrats. The people of the Balkans have fought the Turks to the death for independence, then they try to ethnically cleanse each other, and for what? They have their independence, and now they're just going to hand it over to Europe's unelected commission. It's insanity.

    Rule by the Nazis or the Turks just might be better, hell, Nazi Germany and the Ottoman Empire had better economies than the EU has today. And that's saying something, because both of them had really bad economies.

    I'll take a despotic regime over the clusterfuck of bureaucratic inefficiency and gross economic incompetence that is the EU any day.

    All IMO of course. *Grins*
     
  16. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    Here's a post off another forum I'm on, if you're having trouble understand the political aspects of the situation, I'm sure this will be very enlightening.

     
  17. EloTheMan

    EloTheMan

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    That quote is pretty accurate Destroyer25, but to solve it is going to need more than the Greeks trust to solve it and if it weren't for the Euro they could have solved this crisis by now with the currency strategy.

    Right now their economy is pretty much based on tourism and agriculture, while they have (had*) the social standards of an industrial country. If you compare it to other countries with the same economic income type their social standards are much much lower then Greece.

    Its only logical that they have to lower their standards to match the global market, and the best way to do so would be by having their own currency which they can drop when it goes bad (which gives more tourism for the time being = more income) and raise when it goes good.

    Drastic measure is the best solution in our economic system, not to glorify Hitler but he did solve an even greater crisis than Greece's in a few years. Japan had a very bad situation to after WW2 and they worked through it even thou there were no manpower, educated people or money left. Today they are both a economic power in the world. (However Germany got a lot of help after the war from U.S., UK and France to rebuild their country I believe)

    So, in my opinion currency control is maybe the best step for fixing the Greek crisis to begin with. It will not solve things over night but it will increase their tourism income and their concurrency in Europe for investments in the country. And help keeping the Euro from falling apart.
     
  18. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    No doubt about that. The European Union is a socioeconomic basket case and one of the worst political, social and economic experiments in the history of mankind.

    Drastic measures are needed to fix Greece's economy, drastic measures that are not only very hard to implement due to the nature of the EU, but drastic measures that EU politicians lack the intelligence to comprehend.

    You forgot shipping, but yes, the amount of social services Greeks have in relation to the size of their economy is ridiculous. Even if they paid lots of taxes, and they pay NONE, it would be unsustainable.

    Yep. Greeks are going to give up pretty much everything if they want this to work. They can't cry like little pampered bitches, they just have to give it up. If they don't give up pretty much all their services bar the non essential ones then their recovery could easily fail, and they'll end up in a worse situation. It's all or nothing.

    They oughta remember their brave ancestors who fought and died, with such passion, to protect their countrymen and their way of life. Where is the military genius of the Athenians? The skill and the dedication of the Spartans? Where is the bravery of those who stood up against the Persians, then the Nazis and Facists, and worst of all, the Communists? Those are the Greeks that need to be remembered. Sadly, the current generation are nothing more than pampered little bitches, who think they are entitled to everything and shouldn't have to spend a dime or work hard at all. Greece is the ultimate example of the European nannystate.

    But back to the economics...

    They are in this mess because they adopted a currency that was worth far more than the economic activity in their country. The Euro represents the economic strength of Germany, France and Italy. Them and them ONLY, should be using it. All other countries using it should NOT, as their economies aren't worth the value of the Euro.

    A country's currency directly based off your country's economic strength. Thus, Greece needs to readopt the Drachma. A low value currency is good for tourism, as foreigners with higher value currency have more purchasing power. It also might be a good idea to focus more on exports, which also favors a low value currency, as you get paid in foreign currency.

    Hitler actually didn't fix the German economy. It was burning out by 1938. It was literally sustained through pillaging the rest of Europe. Granted, Hitler could have turned Germany into a very strong peace time economy, but the initial rearmament was burning out the economy. The same was seen with the USSR, by 1944 it was exhausted, and by 1947 Russians were starving to death en mass again.

    With regard to Germany and Japan, USA is responsible for a great deal of their success. USA wanted them as allies, and thus wanted them to be strong. That was particularly true of Germany

    Drastic measures are of course necessary though. Greece needs to adopt Austrian style Free Market Capitalism, they can't afford any extra social services. They threaten to cripple economic recovery. Once the economy is fixed they can adopt something along the lines of Canadian Social Market Capitalism, but NEVER AGAIN, can they move left of center and head towards Social Democracy, or the borderline Socialism that they are basically right now.

    I agree, they need to drop the Euro, and adopt the Drachma. Keep it low, like 20% of the USD maybe.

    I'm not an expert in currencies, and I haven't done too much reading on the subject so I can't comment on the finer details of how this should be done (There's a huge amount of risk involved in such measures), but I'm sure there's at least a few people with brains in Greece that can figure it out. If not perhaps Ron Paul would like to lead Greece, as his fellow Americans don't see to care for his Libertarian ideas much. At least he has a decent grasp on economics though.
     
  19. EloTheMan

    EloTheMan

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    LOL how could I forget that when I am in the same business @.@

    I also forgot to mention their ridiculous high military expenses but it has already been mentioned in the thread. But still, they are not in any war or a threatened by any, why do they keep holding on to it?

    Also their new leader is not even considering the fact to dump their military or to change currency.

    He fears that the Greek households will suffer to much if they change currency, I believe they will survive it if they manage to increase the income of the country. Greece can't afford to go on short-term solutions, long-term is the only answer.

    P.S. I believe Finland is a considerable part of the Euro to, they are both industrial and got natural resources.

    EDIT: I forgot this to: To you guys who live in Greece I suggest you just find ways to cut down your expenditure for the time like buying groceries 2 times per month or getting room mates to save some rent money, this crisis will not be solved for another 5-20 years depending on what your politics do.
     
  20. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    They have been in an arms race with the Turks since WWII. They don't want a replay of Cyprus 1974.

    Obviously Greek households will suffer, there's a lot of risk involved in this plan and even if it works there will be blood, and a lot of it. These are necessary measures though. You're right about them needing a long term solution. They need to restructure their economy from the ground up.

    Not really. Finland is only 1/10 of Italy's GDP. They are he 13th largest economy in the EU and represent 1.5% of it's total GDP.

    Do we have any Greek members on Hive, ones that actually live there that is?