SvD v2.1

[Moderator]

Orcnet

00:51, 20th Aug 2013

Comment

Review

Map Approved

Satyrs Versus Draeneis (Version 1.7b) Rate Score Percent Letter 5/5 91-100 A Rate Score Percent Letter 4/5 81-90% B Rate Score Percent Letter 3/5 75-80% C Rate Score Percent Letter 2/5 70-74% D Rate Score Percent Letter 1/5 50-69% F Overview: Gameplay "The game's movement and overall aspects is powerful, not to mention every hard coded triggers being implemented for each setting to work inside the map is very impressive, I idea of spell building instead of spell training in the start of the game is great, I haven't found any problems right now but this is off the charts" Terrain "Terrain view is good looking, the idea of turning trees for game purposes make it actually destructible by normal attacks is very good, though it would be better if you can do some fogs inside the map giving it more atmosphere." Management "The camera still has problems if you scroll it down then up it defaults back to its original player view but I hope you can fix that quickly, so I haven't any problems going on, instead I found good gaming and very excellent execution for each fields, overall map is highly recommended." Total Score: Rate Score Percent Letter 14/15 97% A

 

[Sverkerman]

Reviews & Suggestions are highly appreciated.

 

[sonofjay]

Congrats on the release.

Subscribing.

 

[BandolXD]

Finally it released !

 

[neo_sluf]

what the heck the map! gonna test it out..

 

[APproject]

I'm glad to see it finally out.

 

[Hashjie]

After so many beta testing and bug fixing, it's finally here. Awesome
Subscribing and can't wait to see more feedback on it.

 

[The_New_Divide]

Wow, very well worked cat´n mice-game. I specialy like the minimap.
I know, i asked to much, but will be a AI added?


Note: Map Discription by hosting map missed.

 

[Sverkerman]

@The_New_Divide
Thanks for the small bug report. Unfortunately there will not be a custom UI added to SvD ever. Te reason behind this is that my goal with the map has always been to have a fun, simple but with very much depht game which is hostfriendly due to it's low filesize.

Also, a small sidenote;
I am currently bed bound due to 39 celcius feber. I am typing from bed wiith a wireless joystick-built-in-keyboard with a screen facing me. Due to this there will be 1-2 days delay time on the thread work. I am sorry about this.

 

[neo_sluf]

Also, a small sidenote;
I am currently bed bound due to 39 celcius feber. I am typing from bed wiith a wireless joystick-built-in-keyboard with a screen facing me. Due to this there will be 1-2 days delay time on the thread work. I am sorry about this.

hope you will recover on your fever immediately... just rest dude your map description can wait but your health won't...

 

[Mech_Warrior]

Hello Sverkerman,

Just got done playtesting your map on Battle.net with a few friends. We were all very very impressed!

Fun gameplay, love the techtrees, love all the options that each side has. I have a few suggestions.

1) Make an option to select how long the timer is for the Techtree Selection. I feel like the first time we played, we had no time to really read through the descriptions of what each one did, and instead were just spam clicking to get it all selected in time (in fact, I didn't even see the tooltips at first, since they were off to the side). You could make the current selection time be the default, but also add in other customizable options for the timer length.
2) Could you add a single player mode so that I can test the non-Satyr side against no enemies? It would have been handy for seeing all the different building styles and techtree options. I also know that the moderators would love single-player compatibility.
3) You could add a simple AI for the Satyr. I can see this being so much fun to play as a group who all want to be the builders against a Computer enemy! This can, of course, wait for future releases, though.
4) One minor problem for me, as the Satyr, was you need to directly click a shop with your Teleport Staff (or else it gives an "Invalid Target" message). This was annoying; I couldn't minimap click my teleport (which I often do, being a Moba player) and I thought it was glitching at first. Either make it not able to select a point target at all, or make it Teleport anywhere in the base, or do some sort of system so that the Teleport Staff will function more smoothly.

That's all for now, great map! Looking forward to updates.

- Mech

 

[Sverkerman]

@Mech Warrior
Thank you very much for your suggestions! The Teleport Staff is defenitly going to be updated in the next version!

1) Make an option to select how long the timer is for the Techtree Selection. I feel like the first time we played, we had no time to really read through the descriptions of what each one did, and instead were just spam clicking to get it all selected in time (in fact, I didn't even see the tooltips at first, since they were off to the side). You could make the current selection time be the default, but also add in other customizable options for the timer length.

The Techtree Selection timer is always going to bother new players due to the depth that the talent trees have. I've implemented a lot of systems to go around this problem. After selecting your talents you will see a message to quick-load the same talents next time you pick your talents. The command for this is -load XXXXXX
Also another thing that I did was having 6 premade talent selections and if you have more than 0 talent points left to spend the system will randomly choose one of those 6 premade talent selections and apply them to your selection. So all players will always have spent their talent points. When it comes to knowing all of the talents inside each talent tree it's a matter of playing the game over and over, memorizing and building strategic talent builds.

The great thing about the -load system is also that it is forum friendly. Let's say that I just thought of this awesome build, maybe I'll call it "Bank lvl3 rush strategy"

In most games it would be very annoying to refer to the correct talent selection for this strategy, but since we have the -load system in SvD you can simply refer to the relevant talent selection like this:
"With this strategy you defenitly want to go for a -load 1aaabbccedghijj33y66k or a -load 1ijkkkl44ttrwqppkkyyy talent selection"

2) Could you add a single player mode so that I can test the non-Satyr side against no enemies? It would have been handy for seeing all the different building styles and techtree options. I also know that the moderators would love single-player compatibility.

Single Player mode is defenitly something I could add.

You could add a simple AI for the Satyr. I can see this being so much fun to play as a group who all want to be the builders against a Computer enemy! This can, of course, wait for future releases, though.

This might be added.


edit: Thread looks somewhat OK now. Might get some 2D art in there soonish.

 

[BandolXD]

Well,is there any other way to get VIP ?
Edit : Ima like the Page right now. #Hash #Hash #Hash
Edit 2 : Is there will be AI in next ver ver ver ver ?

 

[Sverkerman]

@readytoeat

Well,is there any other way to get VIP ?

other way than what? ;P
If you open up the map and check for the quest labeled "VIP" I've written down several ways to get promoted to VIP status.

Edit 2 : Is there will be AI in next ver ver ver ver ?

We'll see, if more people suggest it I might add it. It would require quite some coding but I'm up for the job if the audience demands it!

 

[neo_sluf]

yeah i demand it.. go AI!

 

[sonofjay]

Seconded the AI proposal.

 

[BandolXD]

I mean other way except using Skype?

 

[Sverkerman]

@readytoeat

I mean other way except using Skype?

Yeah, you can just PM me here on THW if you'd like

 

[BandolXD]

I think you should add AI for Loners :3

 

[Anderhil]

i wish i could make maps this awesome

 

[Sverkerman]

SvD version 1.3 now available

-Replaced the Wisp model with the normal WC3 Wisp model due to death animation bug.
-Fixed problem with applying VIP and Beta Tester auras.
-Fixed bug where items were not properly removed from dying units.
-Fixed bug where Transfer (Out) shared the same spell ID as Cook Raccoon.
-Fixed bug with quicksell system that caused players to gain 1 lumber for each 1k gold that was suppose to be returned to the selling player.
-Players can now drop the Dream Catcher item.
-Satyr now gains 80% income from dealing damage instead of the previous 100%.
-Fixed bug where Miscellanious shop dissapeared after the game restarted.
-Greatly reduced the cost of all levels of the Silith structure for the Wisp.
-Fixed description of Draenei Totem.
-Removed upgrades to Nature Heart that was intended to be removed together with a previous scrapping of the Herb system.
-Removed "Mechanics" quest due to irrelevance.
-Buffed Mana Shield to not give any income to the Satyr when taking damage.
-Decreased the cost of the Haste upgrade for the Draenei.
-Increased duration of Haste from 8 to 12 seconds and added a 1.15 seconds casting time.
-Removed the item Necklace of Attack.
-Reduced the upgrade time of Lumberjack.
-Made a second level of Lumberjack that can be upgraded once Lumberjack Level 1 has been upgraded.
-Made a new upgrade called Fortification that reduces damage taken of the draenei wall by 10/20/30/40/50%.
-Elder Treant now have a ranged attack with poison that reduces the attack and movement speed of the struck target by 20%.

I have decided to implement an AI for the Satyr due to high demand, however this have to wait a few versions.

 

[Vengeancekael]

The talent "Hardened Skin (Passive)" doesn't indicate by how much it reduces damage taken in the beginning when spending your talent points.

 

[Sverkerman]

@Vengeancekael
Where? ;o

 

[Razosh]

At long last I am able to play this online, however since there are other maps like this one it's time to compare this one with the strongest competitor, Island Defense.

Terrain 8/10:
Even though the terrain looks more appealing than that of Island Defense it offers a lower alpint of veriaty since Island Defense offers hiding places in the open that the Titan has to work around with cunning and skill.

Draenei 9/15:
As enjoyable as the talent tree is I still feel like it does not give nearly as much variety as you are given in Island Defense.

Satyr 11/15:
My problem with the Satyr is the same with that of the draenei but here the abilities seem to have more impact on the gameplay.

Final score 28/40 7/10.

 

[Weng]

Make a poll for adding AI!

 

[Sverkerman]

Make a poll for adding AI!

Not needed. I've already decided to add it Look here:

I have decided to implement an AI for the Satyr due to high demand, however this have to wait a few versions.

 

[neo_sluf]

At long last I am able to play this online, however since there are other maps like this one it's time to compare this one with the strongest competitor, Island Defense.

Terrain 8/10:
Even though the terrain looks more appealing than that of Island Defense it offers a lower alpint of veriaty since Island Defense offers hiding places in the open that the Titan has to work around with cunning and skill.

Draenei 9/15:
As enjoyable as the talent tree is I still feel like it does not give nearly as much variety as you are given in Island Defense.

Satyr 11/15:
My problem with the Satyr is the same with that of the draenei but here the abilities seem to have more impact on the gameplay.

Difficulty 3/10:
The difficulty in this game for the draenei is next to zero since this map is not only is the map more forgiving but also enables you to win simply by building a waygate, these are bad things since it does not promote teamwork like Island Defense does. Not to mention that in Island Defense if team member is killed your whole team will suffer making both teams only as strong as their weakest link. So this map is perfect for someone who is looking for a map that they do not wish to put a lot of time into, but for someone who wants to play more seriously Island Defense is the better choise.

Final score 31/50 6,2/10.

So Sverkerman needs to modify the buidlings like it improves when there is nearby allied buildings or they gain more resources like sharing so team work will be more implemented..

About the terrain i know sverkerman has a purpose on this one and the terrain really fits the gameplay.
I hope sverkerman will import some doodads since it will not consume a lot of size.

I know sverkerman will improve the gameplay more on my suggestion add some more towers and traps for the draenie and runes for the satyr.

Anyway 4/5 rating

 

[Razosh]

So Sverkerman needs to modify the buidlings like it improves when there is nearby allied buildings or they gain more resources like sharing so team work will be more implemented..

It's not a bad idea but I were talking about the fact that in Island Defense when an allied builder dies the Titan will not only see the location of all hostile units he will also gain a minion who is weaker than the Titan himself but still powerfull enough to be a threat, not to mention the minion can be placed in the center of the map making it next to impossible to kill him of if teamwork isn't used.

Also there was one thing I forgot to mention about the Satyr, I really do not like the idea that he's just handed all of the abilities in the start since they make him insanely over powered in the early stage of the game, I think it would be a lot better if some of the abilities were given over time.

 

[neo_sluf]

It's not a bad idea but I were talking about the fact that in Island Defense when an allied builder dies the Titan will not only see the location of all hostile units he will also gain a minion who is weaker than the Titan himself but still powerfull enough to be a threat, not to mention the minion can be placed in the center of the map making it next to impossible to kill him of if teamwork isn't used.

Also there was one thing I forgot to mention about the Satyr, I really do not like the idea that he's just handed all of the abilities in the start since they make him insanely over powered in the early stage of the game, I think it would be a lot better if some of the abilities were given over time.

About the satyr well i think that's a good idea though like 2 spells at the start.


Well about the Island Defense it has a different gameplay than SvD so sverkerman will not copy what is in that game but instead he will make a unique improvement for the gameplay.

Also how about adding bonus to the satyr for every players so the satyr will not be overwhelmed by lots of draenie

 

[Sverkerman]

@Razosh
So many opinions based on outdated versions. You should re-visit SvD, a lot of your critism is faced towards versions that are 1 month old, and give me suggestions based on what you want to be implemented into the game. Please keep in mind that even tho SvD is similar to Island Defence in some aspects I am absolutely not trying to create Island Defence 2.0. A lot of the mechanics that Island Defence has would never fit inside Satyr vs Draenei.

Personally I like the terrain I made for SvD right now, but it has crossed my mind to remake it into some sort of astral, ancient, mystical kind of terrain.

Also, thank you Orcnet for the approval, finally I can start building up the SvD community and get some proper feedback on what can be done to improve SvD!

 

[Sverkerman]

SvD version 1.4 now available

-Fixed projectile speed of Elder Treant
-Added calculation timer for when talents are being applied
-Added extra special effects for when game starts
-Fixed issue with Staff of Teleportation
-Granted following players VIP status: Sheep100

 

[I_am_Death]

need more building and the most is AI
3/5 and 4/5 ( or maybe 5/5 ) if the next version has AI XD

 

[Sverkerman]

@I Am Death
This is not a singleplayer game, the AI is only ment for players that are unable to play this over the internet or that are curious as to what SvD has to offer when it comes to buildings, talents, playstyle etc.

After all the work that I've put into this I really think the 2/5 rating is unfair, especially when the only improvement you state in your review is "need more building".

Could you atleast be a bit more specific as to what buildings you miss in the game?

 

[Razosh]

Why would you even need an AI, you're logged in on THW so we know for certain that you have internet and finding a few people on either Battle.net or Garena shouldn't be too hard.

 

[The_New_Divide]

need more building and the most is AI
3/5 and 4/5 ( or maybe 5/5 ) if the next version has AI XD

This is too hardcore.

 

[APproject]

need more building and the most is AI
3/5 and 4/5 ( or maybe 5/5 ) if the next version has AI XD

Looks like a typical downrate of a resource without a proper reason. Can't avoid those coming.

 

[Razosh]

I have decided to implement an AI for the Satyr due to high demand, however this have to wait a few versions.

Well you were correct about the high demand, seems like people just wount shut up about it no mater how many times you say it will be implemented.

 

[Sverkerman]

SvD version 1.5 now available

-Fixed issue where the +50 HP upgrade for Draenei wasn't being applied correctly
-Fixed issue with map visibility at the start of a new round
-Fixed issue where at the end of a round some buildings would still be displayed on the minimap
-Nerfed Alacritous Strike to deal 10% of targeted unit's max hp instead of 20%
-Nerfed Improve Alacritous Strike to only gain 20% of damage dealt as income
-Fixed issue where all levels of Improved Alacritous Strike stunned for the level 1 duration
-Nerfed Restoration Totem's regeneration aura from 5000% of hitpoints per second to 5% per second
-Fixed improved Sabotage's multiboard icon to match the talent tree icon
-Fixed Elder Treant's projectile
-Fixed issue where auras for beta testers and VIP players wouldn't show up
-Adjusted quicksell region for Satyr
-Fixed issue where wisps spawned for leaving players

 

[Razosh]

All these updates and my computer isn't running, I wish I could come back to testing.

 

[I_am_Death]

@I Am Death
This is not a singleplayer game, the AI is only ment for players that are unable to play this over the internet or that are curious as to what SvD has to offer when it comes to buildings, talents, playstyle etc.

After all the work that I've put into this I really think the 2/5 rating is unfair, especially when the only improvement you state in your review is "need more building".

Could you atleast be a bit more specific as to what buildings you miss in the game?

sorry about the rate, my mouse is so laggy so rate wrong
very sorry about it

 

[InfernalTater]

This is really, really cool! You didn't tell me about this map, man, I didn't even know until I saw it autohosted and joined!

Anyway, it was pretty fun, just a few suggestions:

Seems to be pathing bug a lot, gets annoying when you can't build towers in a lot of spots.

The tier progression seems way to steep to the point where each bank is infinitely better than the previous. It just seems way to steep to me, to the point where somebody who is 20 seconds ahead of someone else gains the progress of several minutes of gold compared to that other person. I guess this is a matter of personal taste, though.

There seemed to be a bug with the talent screen; after a few rounds it stopped working, meaning it wouldn't add talents. We'd spam click, every once in a while it would start adding talents for 1 second, then stop.

Anyway, despite these things I still really liked the map!

Couldn't help but laugh when I watched the trailer video just now, though, it has this epic peaceful music in the background, and in the gameplay there are people spam raging "FUK U".

 

[Sverkerman]

@TLI-Inferno
Thank you very much for your feedback! +2 rep

The tier progression seems way to steep to the point where each bank is infinitely better than the previous. It just seems way to steep to me, to the point where somebody who is 20 seconds ahead of someone else gains the progress of several minutes of gold compared to that other person. I guess this is a matter of personal taste, though.

This is not at all a personal taste. I've been thinking a lot lately about this matter as well and it is something that I might edit together with some other things so thanks for bringing it up!

There seemed to be a bug with the talent screen; after a few rounds it stopped working, meaning it wouldn't add talents. We'd spam click, every once in a while it would start adding talents for 1 second, then stop.

We've experienced this problem a few times as well altho it being rarely. It accurs only when the map has been running for a long time (40-50 min) and if the host is having connection problems. It is a problem that will eventually dissapear on it's own since we're optimizing the map more and more.

Seems to be pathing bug a lot, gets annoying when you can't build towers in a lot of spots.

I'll have a look into it and see what I can do to improve it. I might need to pay attention to how the grid of the map is layed out and sync the bases accordingly.

 

[Sverkerman]

SvD version 1.6 available

-Fixed issue where upon restart when the trees in the middle ressurected the animation was stuck
-Added more trees outside of some bases
-Relocated the entrance of once of the bases
-Fixed issue where the aura from Obsidian Statue wouldn't affect towers
-Added message at the start of the game with information about our Garena group
-Added message for the draenei, satyr and wisp that tells them what their goals in the game are
-Fixed issue where the system to auto spend any remaining talent points wouldn't trigger sometimes
-Added message at the end of the round that states "Starting new round"
-Removed timer for "apply talents"
-Changed -vip1 back to -vip
-Added additional hitpoints to higher level towers
-Added description for Tower Level 1 that states that it can attack trees
-Added description for Mining Pick of where to find Gravel
-Added system to crown a new Satyr if the Satyr leaves the game
-Removed Eggsack Invisibility upgrade for wisp
-Buildtime of Tower Level 1 decreased from 3 to 1 second.
-Changed projectile of Tower Level 1 to Abilities\Weapons\SentinelMissile\SentinelMissile.mdl
-Increased range of all towers to 650 from 500.
-Fixed a issue with the -i command where players who left the game were still being displayed
-Greatly reduced cost of Constitution upgrade for Draenei (from 155 to 25)

 

[Lenura]

after playing it for the first time i must say i like it, some items seem really unreasonable tho (earlygame only potions, useless wolves and tp taking a slot away?)
no hpregen avaible and no armor makes itemization very boring.
the soundeffects on kills are rather annoying (dumbstep please -_-)
and the game is too flashy with all its custom UI skins, makes it look way too complicated and is uneasy for the eye.

also the spells of the satyr shouldnt have any castinganimation, loosing way too much time attacking a wall later on in the game when you will die in a matter of seconds (shouldnt cancel attacking, and no animations). almost a waste to use spells.

 

[Razosh]

after playing it for the first time i must say i like it, some items seem really unreasonable tho (earlygame only potions, useless wolves and tp taking a slot away?)

If you think that wolves are useless you do not know how to play as Satyr.

no hpregen avaible and no armor makes itemization very boring.

I'm not to interested in the HP regen but the armor idea is not too bad.

 

[Lenura]

found some uses in the wolves but they die too fast for their cost, and pay back too little.

anyhow, i got a building suggestion for draenei which is somewhat lategame but not as late as the portal that wins you the game (halfway trough perhaps), it summons uncontrollable units from the other world (i dont know which units, voidwalkers mainstream but doesnt matter) which are rather slow, they can move over any terrain and trough buildings and they always move towers the satyr automaticly(uncontrollable mercenary), there are rarer units and more common ones. you can upgrade them in general aka dmg and armor. just an idea.

 

[Razosh]

found some uses in the wolves but they die too fast for their cost, and pay back too little.

You are supposed to use them for scouting and to destroy banks by using their stealth ability and since their stealth ability does not last long you are supposed to go and attack the wall with the satyr making the towers lock onto the satyr and not the wolf and if you're skilled enough you will make the wolf destroy buildings 50 times its own worth.

anyhow, i got a building suggestion for draenei which is somewhat lategame but not as late as the portal that wins you the game (halfway trough perhaps), it summons uncontrollable units from the other world (i dont know which units, voidwalkers mainstream but doesnt matter) which are rather slow, they can move over any terrain and trough buildings and they always move towers the satyr automaticly(uncontrollable mercenary), there are rarer units and more common ones. you can upgrade them in general aka dmg and armor. just an idea.

Isn't this a building better suited for the wisps so it automatically walks towards the nearest hostile target wheter that be a dreanai or the satyr, forcing the draenei to pull it towards the towers since right now the wisps are of zero use against draeneis?

 

[Lenura]

well i yet have to figuzre out how to play a wisp later on in the game (if you die lategame it is hard to play on your own if you dont ally with someone), i guess it does work but then again draeneis are fragile and units chasing them is somewhat op i guess?

 

[Razosh]

Is there anything satyrs hate more than the -ally system when you have 1 draenei alive with 7 wisps teaming up at his side...

And you missed the whole point, units chasing them is not OP if they can be shot down by towers, another great thing to implement is that they would damage any building it would hit meaning if you're not carefull as draenei you might lose your bank.