Star Wars, Dark vs Light Side

[annoying]

Hello Star Wars geeks. There is a common misconception among people that the dark side of the force is EVIL. I do not consider it evil. It is merely dark. Discussion please!

 

[brad.dude03]

It's not evil, but it is morally wrong. Entirely wrong. Dark side users manipulate the force for their own ends, thinking only about thrmselves, entirely for personal gain. It doesn't help that MOST of the people using the darkside are pretty damned evil.

As opposed to the light side, where the force is used for the benefit of everyone else, right? So the dark side is the wrong choice, its impulsive, and uncontrollable, and it rots the shit out of your body, but you get great power in return.

Really there is no "light side" or "dark side" there's just the Force. And how you use it determines whether you're calling to the light side or dark side.

To put it another way: The dark side is only capable of inflicting pain, causing destruction. This may work in your favour if said destruction results in rewards, or fat loots, but in the end you will inadvertantly kill everyone you love.

With the light side, the Wielder is using the Force to help others, and this is all they need, no material gains, etc.

 

[HermanTheGibbon]

I have an awesome T-shirt realting to the Dark Side. It has Darth Vader's helmet replacing the traingle on Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon ablum cover, and is captioned 'Dark Side'. Double whammy for a Star Wars and Pink Floyd fan. Just thought I'd share that interesting factual nugget

http://www.symbolife.com/sl_media/i...small_0945439001207123989;Dark Side Front.JPG

Anyhoo, nice explanation of the Force and all its mysteries brad.dude

 

[konerboy]

neither of them are good/evil depends on what side your on, but the Dark force temp to do evil things: torture, Force Choke, Lightning, Blow things up

but hey even US have done that.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I agree with brad.

 

[Sansui]

hmmm so Vadar is an evil guy for falling in love and wanting to marry her?(illegal by the light sides rules)oh and the whole wanting his wife to NOT die in childbirth? Vadar wanted freedom not the strict rules imposed by the "LIGHT SIDE".
The empire is beyond evil for trying to unite the galaxy under one rule which WOULD stop all war.

SOUNDS evil. -_-
Yes the dark side does allow users to manifest the force in other powerful methods, but what does that have to do with being evil?
Just because one has the ability to kill does not mean that they are murderers.


the light side is full of crazy ass zealots who use terrorist methods to get what they want.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

You pose a good point

 

[HermanTheGibbon]

Whoa

Is that Phil Collins in your avatar Sansui?

 

[Anduril]

Hmmm....the Dark Side vs the Other Side (Never actually called the Light Side in the movies)
The Dark side is, as Brad put it, self-centered. This is not necessarily "evil". However, the struggle between the 'Light Side' and the Dark Side can only be explained one way: one (or both) sides feel that the other is wrong. So the Light Side Jedi are always trying to kill the Dark Side Sith (and vice versa) because they disagree on how the Force should be used. It's like saying: (no offense to anyone here. Please) Muslims and Christians believe different things about the same God, so they fought/fight (Crusades, Jihad, etc). Are Muslims evil? No. Are Christians evil? No. It all depends on your morals. If the movies had portrayed the Dark Side as being the good guys, something would have felt wrong with us (the viewers). So, we believe the Dark Side Sith are evil because they are against the 'good guys,' the Light Side. We can agree with the Light Side being the good guys because of our morals (I hope), so it makes sense, even though it isn't neccessarily true
Neither side is evil, they just disagree with each other morally.

 

[brad.dude03]

Well I think being a Sith and being 'dartk side' are two very different things. Let's be honest, the Sith just wanna conquer the Galaxy, abolishing petty beurocracy with a powerful dictatorship that gets shit done. Where the light side (It's still canon to call it the light side) is more than happy with beurocracy just as long as the Jedi have a say in things.

 

[Anduril]

I don't see any Light Side sith, Brad
They do somewhat seem to be associated with the Dark Side xD
The Jedi and Sith simply use the Force to aceive different ends. One is for helping people (the sith, obviously) and the other is for killing and murdering (completely Yoda)

Does anyone really ever mind rampant sarcasm? I hope not

 

[Mr. Bob]

The 'Force' is not for the Good or the Evil, its how you use it. The dark side is evil to the Good side (Jedi). Sith follow the impresion that only the 'strong' deserve to live, and that it is there job to use the 'weak' to ultimately strengthen the 'strong'. The Jedi on the other hand, believe that the force is meant to maintain peace all over the galaxy. Also, they believe that people are the same as far as 'tier' is concerned.

A better understanding of this disscusion would come through the book titled "Darth Bane: Path of Destruction" as well as "Darth Bane: The Rule of Two".

As for the aspect of which is evil or good, that is for you to decide.

Well I think being a Sith and being 'dartk side' are two very different things. Let's be honest, the Sith just wanna conquer the Galaxy, abolishing petty beurocracy with a powerful dictatorship that gets shit done. Where the light side (It's still canon to call it the light side) is more than happy with beurocracy just as long as the Jedi have a say in things.

The sith do not wish to conquer. They want the destruction of the Jedi. A Sith's greatist tool is paitence. As explained in the books reffered to above. The Jedi desire peace and no tiers of any sort. The Sith also do not desire "strength in numbers" they think there should only be two, quote: "Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it." (Darth Bane). Once the master becomes weak, apprentice shall destroy the master and become the new master. If the Master sees that the apprentice is not fit for the job, he shall destroy the apprentice and find another. The Sith hate being known. They find power through secricy and deceit.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me."

(code of the sith)

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no chaos; there is harmony.
There is no death; there is the Force.

(code of the Jedi)

 

[boomwolf]

jedi are emotion-less...

In the overall, both sides are sorta evil. the sith...well yaknow...
The jedi-no emotion? sounds evil to me...

 

[frostwhisper]

Both sides of the Force have a problem. Jedi have their strict code, Sith seek power at the expense of others. Now someone mentioned that being sith and succumbing to the Dark side are two different things. I believe that is true. Our living example is Anakin Skywalker, the one who fell to the Dark side not for himself, but for the people he loved. He's a dark-side wielding jedi under the control of the sith (he did do some creepy shit though... mind trauma).

 

[Anduril]

Because he succumbed to his emotions? That's what makes a Jedi eventually become a Sith? That sort of makes sense. What we need are some Vulcan Jedi....

 

[frostwhisper]

Blasphemy .

 

[Velmarshal]

A guy once said: "Darkness is an absence of Light".
Nah dark side has better colors of the lightsabers.
I wonder, is there a black lightsaber?

 

[Elenai]

The problem is, that both sides represent two sides of an extreme spectrum in the use of the force as a whole.

You either have totally uncontrolled zealous use of passion, thus leading to the more questionable use of the force, for questionable ends.

Or

You have a totally controlled zealous use of dogmatic control and rules that seeks a balance, that cannot be achieved through such means.

They are both negative in their means, and the ends show negative products.

A weak "light" side, due to its overconstrained nature, one that destroys even the positive drives of humanity in favour of a pseudo "balance".

A strong "dark" side due to its freedom of use and expression, but one that manifests dire consequenses upon the body and mind of the user. Essentially, decadence in power causing depravity in the self.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Both sides of the Force have a problem. Jedi have their strict code, Sith seek power at the expense of others. Now someone mentioned that being sith and succumbing to the Dark side are two different things. I believe that is true. Our living example is Anakin Skywalker, the one who fell to the Dark side not for himself, but for the people he loved. He's a dark-side wielding jedi under the control of the sith (he did do some creepy shit though... mind trauma).

For goodness sake, READ DARTH BANE BOOKS! I have enjoyed reading Star Wars books since I was 5. The Jedi of the old order have to strict of a code. The NEW order on the other hand (years after episode 6) are allowed to marry, take Luke for instance, he married Mara Jade.

 

[Arvedui]

For goodness sake, READ DARTH BANE BOOKS! I have enjoyed reading Star Wars books since I was 5. The Jedi of the old order have to strict of a code. The NEW order on the other hand (years after episode 6) are allowed to marry, take Luke for instance, he married Mara Jade.

That's very true. The best explanation has been given by brad so far.

The light and the dark side are so similar. It's just that the users of the "dark side" use it for their own gain. But honestly the most powerful people are usually those who have, at least once, been involved in the dark side. Because they know a more full perspective of the Force as an entirety.

Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, but he goes back to the light and saves the universe. Luke Skywalker saves the universe numerous times, but he too dabbled in the dark side. Mara Jade was the Emporer's Hand.. Kyp Durron almost falls to the darkside.. Kyle Katarn falls and comes back.

The point is, that the most powerful members of the Jedi are usually those who have a broader perspective.. and the easiest way to get that is to see both the point of Light and Dark, and not use the powers selfishly but to help others.

As brad said, The Force IS. Light and Dark are just how people use it.

 

[Mr. Bob]

That's very true. The best explanation has been given by brad so far.

The light and the dark side are so similar. It's just that the users of the "dark side" use it for their own gain. But honestly the most powerful people are usually those who have, at least once, been involved in the dark side. Because they know a more full perspective of the Force as an entirety.

Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, but he goes back to the light and saves the universe. Luke Skywalker saves the universe numerous times, but he too dabbled in the dark side. Mara Jade was the Emporer's Hand.. Kyp Durron almost falls to the darkside.. Kyle Katarn falls and comes back.

The point is, that the most powerful members of the Jedi are usually those who have a broader perspective.. and the easiest way to get that is to see both the point of Light and Dark, and not use the powers selfishly but to help others.

The Sith are NOT more powerful than the Jedi. They use the same force. The Sith help there masters for the greater cause of destroying the Jedi. Then the aprrentice will kill his master. The most powerful force using being was Luke Skywalker, (45 years later of course), PERIOD. He could make an entire fleet allusion appear in the enemy's eyes. He could also wave his hand and everyone in the room would die, instantly. The most powerful sith was Darth Bane. He took on 3 Jedi Masters, one of which was the best swordsman the galaxy ever knew. Also (ALL AT THE SAME TIME) he had to kill a padawan, and a Jedi master meditater.

The Jedi commit themselves to the force for there strength. The Sith submit themselves to there rage. Read Darth Bane books.

As brad said, The Force IS. Light and Dark are just how people use it.

Uh...I said that...lol

 

[Arvedui]

Really there is no "light side" or "dark side" there's just the Force. And how you use it determines whether you're calling to the light side or dark side.

i was paraphrasing.
I didn't say the dark side was more powerful. I said that people who knew both sides generally were the strongest.

Hey remember when Darth Bane sucked? Yeah he still does. Oh man he killed 3 jedi masters? Darth Sidious took on, what? 5? 4? Jedi at the same time, one of them being Mace Windu, one of the most accomplished sword masters in the Old Republic era, and he beat Yoda. I'm not saying Sidious was the strongest, he in no way was the strongest. If anything Nihilius was.. he could pretty much destroy everything.

And Yes, Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi ever. Just the fact that in Inferno (i think) he holds down Jacen with such power that Jacen can't do anything.

 

[Mr. Bob]

i was paraphrasing.
I didn't say the dark side was more powerful. I said that people who knew both sides generally were the strongest.

Hey remember when Darth Bane sucked? Yeah he still does. Oh man he killed 3 jedi masters? Darth Sidious took on, what? 5? 4? Jedi at the same time, one of them being Mace Windu, one of the most accomplished sword masters in the Old Republic era, and he beat Yoda. I'm not saying Sidious was the strongest, he in no way was the strongest. If anything Nihilius was.. he could pretty much destroy everything.

And Yes, Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi ever. Just the fact that in Inferno (i think) he holds down Jacen with such power that Jacen can't do anything.

Uh, lol, Sidious might have been a pretty powerful fighter, but in the end he was a fool. He let his apprentice turn to the light side. Darth Bane destroyed ALL of the sith order because he did not see them as the true way. Bane was a very cunning sith, he found Holocrons from all kinds of sith lords. Then he used the sith's most powerful weapons, trickery and deceit. He planted the entire Idea of the "rule of two" which made Sidious. Sidious was a fool. He exposed himself to his own padawan in his worst emotional moment. Making Vader's rage turn to love for his son, which ended Sidious's rule. Sure he was cloned, but Sidious's clone was not kept secret. Which was his next flaw.

In a since, you are right about Nihilius, but he is more aimed at destruction then anything else.

Lol, we should create a Star Wars group. Would you be intrusted if I make one?

And, just curious, did you ever read the "Dark Nest" series, for Star Wars? Its a great set of books really.

 

[Arvedui]

Uh, lol, Sidious might have been the most powerful fighter ever, but in the end he was a fool. He let his apprentice turn to the light side. Darth Bane destroyed ALL of the sith order because he did not see them as the true way. Bane was a very cunning sith, he found Holocrons from all kinds of sith lords. Then he used the sith's most powerful weapons, trickery and deceit. He planted the entire Idea of the "rule of two" which made Sidious. Sidious was a fool. He exposed himself to his own padawan in his worst emotional moment. Making Vader's rage turn to love for his son, which ended Sidious's rule. Sure he was cloned, but Sidious's clone was not kept secret. Which was his next flaw.

In a since, you are right about Nihilius, but he is more aimed at destruction then anything else.

Lol, we should create a Star Wars group. Would you be intrusted if I make one?

And, just curious, did you ever read the "Dark Nest" series, for Star Wars? Its a great set of books really.

Lol yes, Sidious was an idiot.. I absolutely hate him, he's my least favorite Sith ever. And yes there should be a Star Wars group, I would definitely join it

And I've never read the Dark nest series.. I really want to.. but I've only recently started to read star wars books... I got off my LotR mania and fell right into Star Wars again lol

I started with the Legacy of the Force books, but I'm getting caught up with all the books I missed.. if not by reading them, then by going to wookiepedia

 

[Mr. Bob]

Lol yes, Sidious was an idiot.. I absolutely hate him, he's my least favorite Sith ever. And yes there should be a Star Wars group, I would definitely join it

And I've never read the Dark nest series.. I really want to.. but I've only recently started to read star wars books... I got off my LotR mania and fell right into Star Wars again lol

I started with the Legacy of the Force books, but I'm getting caught up with all the books I missed.. if not by reading them, then by going to wookiepedia

I will make a Star Wars group. And, try not to spend to much time on that site. It can get off a little sometimes. The Dark Nest series was a very good series.

EDIT: Ok I made a star wars group.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

You can see the Dark Side like drugs; easy to get addicted to, but it's hard to come out of it.

 

[brad.dude03]

Alrighty, lets clear some stuff up:

1) In response to Velm, in canon there is no black crystal, but I'm sure there's one in every cheesy star wars fanfic around.

2) Luke also became Palpetine's apprentice for a brief time in the Dark Empire comics. Great series. He goes straight into the darkside, becoming the apprentice of a clone of the Emperor. His reasoning was that he could destroy the dark side within. But like many before him, he got in over his head, and it took his friends and family to bring him back over.

3) The Sith are stronger than the Jedi. If you read the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, the author does a brilliant job of filling in the fight between Sidious and Yoda. The Jedi, at the time of Order 66, had grown stagnant. They had convinced themselves that the Sith had died out millenia ago, and thus became lazy so to speak. While the Sith spent thousands of years honing their plan, their masterful plan, to bring down the Jedi, passing their knowledge from master to apprentice over thousands of years. A Sith knows patience. To say otherwise is a flat-out lie, because in the end, they won.

I've read every star wars book from the Bantam Spectra days to the Del Rey books. The Jedi Academy trilogy is my favourite of them all, though. Kevin J. Anderson is just win. Plus any Mando shit, like everything that Karen Traviss writes, also gets my love.

 

[Arvedui]

Alrighty, lets clear some stuff up:

1) In response to Velm, in canon there is no black crystal, but I'm sure there's one in every cheesy star wars fanfic around.

2) Luke also became Palpetine's apprentice for a brief time in the Dark Empire comics. Great series. He goes straight into the darkside, becoming the apprentice of a clone of the Emperor. His reasoning was that he could destroy the dark side within. But like many before him, he got in over his head, and it took his friends and family to bring him back over.

3) The Sith are stronger than the Jedi. If you read the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, the author does a brilliant job of filling in the fight between Sidious and Yoda. The Jedi, at the time of Order 66, had grown stagnant. They had convinced themselves that the Sith had died out millenia ago, and thus became lazy so to speak. While the Sith spent thousands of years honing their plan, their masterful plan, to bring down the Jedi, passing their knowledge from master to apprentice over thousands of years. A Sith knows patience. To say otherwise is a flat-out lie, because in the end, they won.

I've read every star wars book from the Bantam Spectra days to the Del Rey books. The Jedi Academy trilogy is my favourite of them all, though. Kevin J. Anderson is just win. Plus any Mando shit, like everything that Karen Traviss writes, also gets my love.

A black crystal would be sweet.. but probably not very popular.. red is still my favorite.
Typically the Sith are depicted as being stronger because there needs to be a good set of antagonists. No one is going to like the "bad guy" if he fails in the first book/movie. Hence the general hatred of Darth Maul.. or at least by people I know. Blah blah blah Doppleganger and clone, most people don't care to know things like that.
That's why Darth Vader is still one of the most badass movie characters ever. He's on god-mode until the last movie.

And yes Karen Traviss is the savior to all who love the Fett man (or Mandos in general).

 

[brad.dude03]

I actually appreciate Maul for who he is: a failed experiment. He rejected everything that the subtlities of the Force could offer him, choosing the path of dueling-beast instead of dark force commander. He just harnessed the power of the force into raw rage, and used that to fuel his fighting.

He was badass, but getting cut down by a Padawan is rather embarassing, even if it was Obi Wan.

And Vader, I agree, he was badass from an Original Trilogy standpoint, but once you see what he COULD have been after the Prequels, you just tend to lose all respect for him. He could be one thousand times stronger if he didn't get dumped into Mustafar for a swim, so yeah.

 

[Arvedui]

Well yeah..Darth Maul was a dueling-beast but he still sucked. He was the trained assassin that never should have been. As you said, he was Palpatine's experiment.

And yeah.. the prequels (and books) kinda ruin the entire facade of the invulnerable Vader. Blah blah emotional wreck. Hayden Christensen is the worst thing that ever happened to Darth Vader. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible actor the movies would have been better.

Unfortunately, through the movies, Vader seems like another one of Palpatine's failed experiments. Yes he was emotionally unbalanced before hand, but that probably came from being a slave until his preteens, and then after his mother died he becomes crippled by fear of anyone else dying near him. Palpatine just fed on that. It is possible though that if Palpatine hadn't been there, Yoda could have sorted him out. He is Yoda after all.
P.S. He (and Obi Wan) should have killed A'Sharad Hett when he had the chance.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yep, if Anakin hadn't been around, Mace Windu would have opened up the seven hells on dear old Palpy there. It's a damned shame Samuel Jackson didn't get more badass screentime in the Prequels.

Personally, Dooku was my favourite. He had no emotional ties, nothing could phase him, he was immensely powerful. Really, his only weakness was overconfidence.

But yeah, none of these guys compare to the Old Sith. Hell, even Exar Kun was 50 times the Sith Palpatine ever was.

 

[Arvedui]

yeah.. the Palpatine era sith suck. Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun.. even Revan when he was a sith.. pwn them.

My favorite is still Vader because of his awesomeness in the Original Trilogy.. nothing can ruin that for me.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Yep, if Anakin hadn't been around, Mace Windu would have opened up the seven hells on dear old Palpy there. It's a damned shame Samuel Jackson didn't get more badass screentime in the Prequels.

Personally, Dooku was my favourite. He had no emotional ties, nothing could phase him, he was immensely powerful. Really, his only weakness was overconfidence.

But yeah, none of these guys compare to the Old Sith. Hell, even Exar Kun was 50 times the Sith Palpatine ever was.

Sidious could kill him the entire time. He chose not to so Anakin would turn to the Dark Side.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Yep, if Anakin hadn't been around, Mace Windu would have opened up the seven hells on dear old Palpy there. It's a damned shame Samuel Jackson didn't get more badass screentime in the Prequels.

Actually what seems kinda racist: He's black :<

He's awesome but black, and black people always/75% of all cases die.

 

[Anduril]

Actually what seems kinda racist: He's black :<

So? Just because a black guy died doesn't make Star Wars racist. Did you notice how the black guy was also the best swordsman of the Old Era?

He's awesome but black, and black people always/75% of all cases die.

Sigh....I'm not even gonna respond to that

 

[frostwhisper]

You're diverging from the topic again, TDB...

 

[TheDivineBoss]

B2T then: Good is good and always wins but Evil is always kickass.

Happy now?

 

[annoying]

Dudes, this is kickass! I now have the answer to the universe! Seeing how you see the sides of the force, I can now consider myself a wise man.

A bit offtopic: how do I get English Star Wars-books in Sweden?

 

[brad.dude03]

Amazon .

 

[annoying]

Huh? What do you mean? Never heard of Amazon. What is that?

 

[Arvedui]

Amazon.com
it's a place to buy items online, has a lot of books. Google it.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Coming to the dark side from the light side is a natural circle. Servant of the light side is called Jedi or translated as 'eat'. And what happens when you have eaten enough. You obviously become Sith, which means 'satiated'.

 

[brad.dude03]

I don't think that's true at all. Yoda was a Jedi for 800 years. He never went Sith. Sith are a whole different ballgame.

 

[Arvedui]

Though, you could make the argument that the Jedi are the gateway to being a Sith. If you look at many of the Sith (not all), they were Jedi once, who were disenfranchised with them and sought greater power and more knowledge. They thought that the Jedi had a too limited view of the Force and they sought to know more.
Obviously this led them to the Darkside of the Force. To gain full understanding of the Force you have to be able to see both sides, Light and Dark.
I personally think that the strongest Force adept people are those that learn both sides and then decide for themselves. I.e. Luke, Kyle Katarn, Revan.. etc.

 

[Mr. Bob]

The Sith are technically a race of beings. The Sith are actually called, "Lords of the Sith", because, 50,000 bby, a group of fallen Jedi, made slaves of the sith species on Korriban. So, eventually, people later started calling them the Sith.

 

[Arvedui]

Well yeah, but for all intensive purposes it's easier to just refer to them as Sith, rather than always saying Dark Side users, or Dark Lord of the Sith.
It's just like how the original Mandalorians were the Taung on Coruscant, but eventually as they died out and adopted different cultures, humans took their place, but their armor was still modeled after the Taung. It's just easier to call them Mandalorians.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Well yeah, but for all intensive purposes it's easier to just refer to them as Sith, rather than always saying Dark Side users, or Dark Lord of the Sith.
It's just like how the original Mandalorians were the Taung on Coruscant, but eventually as they died out and adopted different cultures, humans took their place, but their armor was still modeled after the Taung. It's just easier to call them Mandalorians.

You gotta admit, Mandalor armor is sweet. Especially Jango's.

 

[Arvedui]

Oh hell yeah. Mandalorians pwn all. I liked Mandalore the Ultimate's helmet though. I mean Boba Fett's is still my favorite cause it's the "original" but Ultimate's is friggin sweet. I like Jango's armor cause it's so smooth and sleek.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Oh hell yeah. Mandalorians pwn all. I liked Mandalore the Ultimate's helmet though. I mean Boba Fett's is still my favorite cause it's the "original" but Ultimate's is friggin sweet. I like Jango's armor cause it's so smooth and sleek.

It beets Halo's armor down to the core. The 'old' version of mandalorian armor was ok.

 

[Arvedui]

Yeah, it beats Halo's armor. The "T" shaped visor is pure win. I like Master Chief, but the Fett man has him beat.