Star Wars VII - A new hope for the franchise? Pun-y humans! (SPOILERS!)

[Zwiebelchen]

So who was in that movie already and absolutely fucking loved it like me?

Just a warning that this thread will be heavily spoilerific in general. I don't want to wrap up everything into spoiler tags on every post so just don't read any further if you haven't watched the movie, mkay? Go watch it now, it's good!

So without further delay: Did Abrams and Disney make a good Star Wars movie? Hell yes! Is it perfect? Oh, no! Is it better than the prequels? A thousand times yes!


The effects are fantastic, the action is tight and there were so many cool moments that I don't actually know which one I liked most. No wait, it was the planet destroyer sequence. But still...
The new characters are great (except the whiney stormtrooper, uh, I don't know why they actually took him along).
Ray is easy on the eyes and pretty badass in comparison to Luke or Anakin.
Great acting and nice choreography routines.
And finally we got a new type of Star Wars villain: someone who is actually conflicted and not on a very shallow "duh, I'm on the dark side now, bro!" basis like in the prequels.

Of course, this movie also had some weaknesses:
- Ray felt a bit Mary Sue-ish at times... basicly everything she did she immediately succeeded in, even stuff she couldn't possibly know (like, uh, fighting with a Lightsaber? How did she know about the force manipulation thing when she thought Jedis were just a fairytale? And doing some epic level hillclimbing in the star destroyer base? Piloting the Millenium Falcon?) ... but I blame that on the tight pacing of the movie and cutting some corners on side characters so I won't do a judge on this until after SW8.
- They established this incredibly powerful system destroyer weapon that not only looks awesome, but was also very effective for the villains, wiping out 90% of all the opposing forces in one blow. Why didn't they guard it more? How could the rebels even make it there or know what to shoot to make it blow up when they literally just heard of it's existance one day before? Also, a bummer to remove that lingering threat at the end of the movie by blowing it up completely...
- I like the red goggle alien ... why build up this character just to kill her a few minutes later?
- Why didn't they postpone the reveal that Kylo Ren is Han's and Leia's son to until the bridge scene? Like, literally, you wasted perfectly good drama for no real reason! He was wearing a mask anyway. You could have easily gotten away with it!
- How did that Storm Trooper guy know how to wield the light saber, even if he is no Jedi? Do all Storm Troopers get lessons in these weird cyber-swords that one Lieautenant guy was using? Even so, he wasn't even one of the combat specialists as was later revealed.


But damn, in comparison to my expectations, all this feels like baseless nitpicking!
JJ Abrams actually revived the Star Wars Franchise for me. It was fun to watch and entertaining as hell. And I'm happy to see how well that female protagonist thing works in the Star Wars Universe. I'd love to see more of Ray in the sequel (though I hope they de-sue-ify her a bit there).

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Watched the movie a few days ago and it was a blast and nostalgia trip. JJ Abrams = WIN!

- Ray felt a bit Mary Sue-ish at times... basicly everything she did she immediately succeeded in, even stuff she couldn't possibly know (like, uh, fighting with a Lightsaber? How did she know about the force manipulation thing when she thought Jedis were just a fairytale? And doing some epic level hillclimbing in the star destroyer base? Piloting the Millenium Falcon?) ... but I blame that on the tight pacing of the movie and cutting some corners on side characters so I won't do a judge on this until after SW8.

bLaM3 ThE f0rC3. Sp0oKy!

- How did that Storm Trooper guy know how to wield the light saber, even if he is no Jedi? Do all Storm Troopers get lessons in these weird cyber-swords that one Lieautenant guy was using? Even so, he wasn't even one of the combat specialists as was later revealed.

How would one not know how to wield a light saber? It has the name saber in it'd be common sense to hold it like a sword. And these troopers are soldiers. You can even hold it in different ways. i.e Ashoka Tano holds it inverted. Plus, I heard that Storm Troopers get melee training but I don't recall if they explained that in the movie.

 

[PROXY]

Rey's combat and parcour abilities can also be explained by her years om Jakku. She climber her whole life (?) or at leasr a very long time in those old starships to gather technology. And she was very handled in fighting with her staff, so I guess she would be kind of effective with a similiar weapon (combat and movement still remain very similar.)

Just loved this movie. Was unsure about Kylo at first and him losing that last duel, but if you consider his inner rift and being wonded by Chewis Rocket-Blaster-like blaster it's totally fair. Finn is a stormtrooper after all and kind of a combat guy. Plus him being in that "rage" mode to protect Rae (seeing jer hurt) can increase your abilities in a justifable amoun IMO. And Rae's extreme affintion to the Force (which is needed to a certain amount for lightsaber duelint - good one at least) increased her chances too.

The only thing that really bugged me was that rift that kept her from killin/defeatin Kylo. I was like, how are they going to end this duel without killing no one? And then bamm, the earth drifts apart exactly between them. That was kind meh.

 

[Gilles]

No, just no. There's no way "rage mode" would compensate for years of dedication and training.

Even Rey shouldn't have stood a chance in hand to hand combat. Why did Kylo stop using his extremely powerful force abilities? He threw her into a tree at the start, why did he stop doing that? Sure he was injured, but his strength in the force and his training with a lightsaber would make it impossible for someone with 0 experience to fight him.

While I enjoyed the movie a lot, the end fight was a blemish. It made no sense.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Rey's combat and parcour abilities can also be explained by her years om Jakku. She climber her whole life (?) or at leasr a very long time in those old starships to gather technology. And she was very handled in fighting with her staff, so I guess she would be kind of effective with a similiar weapon (combat and movement still remain very similar.)

I'm actually kind of okay with her being able to fight with a light saber at least somehow proficient with her history of fighting with a staff all her life. Maybe that climbing part is also excusable.
However, how would she be able to best Kylo Ren, who is a trained force user and taught all his life by masters, even if he was wounded by Chewbaka? It just felt a bit weird to see Ray best him almost evenly in combat.
But yes, the Force ...
You know what; if they actually pick that excuse up in one of the sequels then I'm giving this a nod. Until then, it felt a bit lame to me that Kylo Ren could not easily dispatch her (then again, maybe it's just him being pretty weak).
What I definitely DON'T accept is that she is a good pilot. How would she get that expertize? It makes sense she knows the basics of the technology, since she has been scavenging Star Destroyer parts all her life.
However, how did she get her experience in flying? I highly doubt that anyone would allow her to actually fly something on Jakku, with only a few ships present (and one of them being the buried millenium falcon).

In the original movies, Luke was established from the ground up as a good pilot. He literally had no other exceptional skills at start. Ray just seems a bit overpowered to me in comparison.
Not a huge problem for me if they flesh her character out in the next sequel, but I just felt she kind of needs a weakness to balance her out as a character.

Finn is a stormtrooper after all and kind of a combat guy. Plus him being in that "rage" mode to protect Rae (seeing jer hurt) can increase your abilities in a justifable amoun IMO.

I don't buy that. Yes, he possibly received basic training in melee combat, but he was fighting someone with years of training ... it just felt weird to see that.
Also, the "protect the girl" cliché was a bit of an ass-pull considering how Ray is easily the more badass one of the two.
But then maybe it is because I just didn't like Finn in general (the "so, you got a boyfriend?" line was sooo cringe-worthy).

The only thing that really bugged me was that rift that kept her from killin/defeatin Kylo. I was like, how are they going to end this duel without killing no one? And then bamm, the earth drifts apart exactly between them. That was kind meh.

I ... uh ... I have to admit that I liked that. It had a nice symbolism to it and it felt totally Star Wars'ish to me (just like that super climatic and convenient but ultimately pointless bridge in the middle of an bottomless descent...) . And at least you could explain it with the impending destruction of the base to me.

 

[GhostThruster]

i thought the movie was a solid 8/10, but i may lower that grade at a second watching

as for the rey vs. ren debacle, it didn't break my suspension of disbelief because they set her up to be stronger than ren force-wise (see: the scene where he tries to read her mind) and ren was portrayed to not be this experienced, trained, and highly focused badass. he apparently hasn't even finished training with that huge cave goblin guy. then as you guys have stated, there's the fact that he was wounded and just minutes ago killed his father (not exactly in a fighting state of mind).

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

The whole movie totally blowed! When Luke went to face his father he fought alone. This tag team killing is a total bitch move. it makes their victory seem cheap and weak.

I'm also surprised no one noticed or is complaining about a Black trooper. A clone!!!! what the fuck! how is it possible that no one noticed this and rejected him in the infancy stages of his cloning.

the worst possible version of star wars ever. raped George Lucas to death alone with the force

 

[The_Silent]

I'm also surprised no one noticed or is complaining about a Black trooper. A clone!!!! what the fuck! how is it possible that no one noticed this and rejected him in the infancy stages of his cloning.

They literally says they're not clones in the movie, but conscripted people trained from childhood.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

They literally says they're not clones in the movie, but conscripted people trained from childhood.

And thank god for that... like really, the whole clone thing was a bad idea for many reasons and I'm happy they removed that from the movie. It makes the whole "heroes kill storm troopers left and right" much more believable, since the original boba fett was a highly trained professional killer and it wouldnt make any sense that the storm troopers are so easy to be killed in every star wars movie.

 

[fladdermasken]

I feel like it would be a thousand times better if they cut out the corny trademark banter that you get with the package in every single blockbuster. e.g. Finn's story of a conflicted war-torn soldier that deflected from his squadron could have been played for great dramatic effect, but instead they lean on him for typical comic relief, corny one-liners and cheap attitude gags. This made his screen time a pain, and his dramatic/heroic actions just feel completely out of character.

Zwiebelchen is also right on the money that they should have held off Kylo Ren's identity reveal to the bridge scene. That was the one chance they had of using Ford's acting prowess to their advantage (esp. if they only get him for this one film). As it stands, he was little more than fan service.

But overall it was a great revival of the franchise. The action scenes were rawrsome, it didn't suffer from terrible acting, the story unfolds nicely for the most part, and they managed to caputre the atmosphere from the old films without blatantly rehashing them scene for scene.

And thank god for that... like really, the whole clone thing was a bad idea for many reasons and I'm happy they removed that from the movie. It makes the whole "heroes kill storm troopers left and right" much more believable, since the original boba fett was a highly trained professional killer and it wouldnt make any sense that the storm troopers are so easy to be killed in every star wars movie.

The Kaminoan cloning facility supposedly shut down some years after the battle of Yavin, and the Empire had to launch a recruitment drive for young men (usually farmers or mechanics) in Imperial sectors so their numbers wouldn't thin out. That would play well with their shit aim and cheap mass-produced power armors that wouldn't hold back pebbles.

Also, the facet of the standard shock troopers being worse than their reputation, e.g. supposed to have very accurate blast patterns but is rarely seen hitting their target at all, has been there for so long that, at this point, it's just part of the franchise and it's probably easier to just roll with it.

 

[PublishedShadow]

I'm going to see the movie tomorrow night so I didn't read the posts above for spoiler reasons... But I honestly don't think it will ever compare to the Original Trilogy. Those are by far superior to the 'new' trilogy, though I enjoyed them all. (speaking of original trilogy I'm not talking about that 'remastered' crap with CGI extras and other useless alterations that George Lucas did - I mean the unaltered original masterpieces that they were.)

Still, I've heard good things about the movie and while staying away from spoilers - though I have a feeling I know what some of the 'spoilers' are.

I'll update my thoughts after I see the film tomorrow though
I am excited for a new era of star wars though.

 

[Gilles]

But overall it was a great revival of the franchise. The action scenes were rawrsome, it didn't suffer from terrible acting, the story unfolds nicely for the most part, and they managed to caputre the atmosphere from the old films without blatantly rehashing them scene for scene.

It's an interesting movie to dissect. It's really easy to find things wrong with it, but it's still very enjoyable. You pretty much touched on why; it's passable in every category and looks and feels great.

While it might not blatantly rehash old scenes, it comes pretty damn close. It does more than take inspiration from 'A New Hope'. It's like when someone else's writing into their essay and just changes a few words.

 

[PublishedShadow]

So after seeing the film last night I will say, it was a very good movie.

I did feel like it mirrored New Hope a lot, but I think that was the intention, so that isn't necessarily a bad thing. As far as the mirroring goes, I think it succeeded where Phantom Menace failed.

Of all the new Characters, I do think Rey is my favorite and she was, in my opinion, the true star of this new trilogy. Her absolutely excelling at everything HAS to have something to do with her origins, which will hopefully be explained a bit better in the next film. On a side note, surrounding the mystery of her origin, I personally think she is Han's and Leia's Daughter and NOT Luke's daughter - at least it seems to have hinted at that - which also makes sense if they are shadowing the comics/books.

At first, I really had high hopes for Kylo Ren - especially when he stopped the blaster bolt in mid air with his force powers- but as the movie progressed he came off as a big pussy. The actor behind the mask didn't really seem fitting for someone who was supposedly a dark side bad ass that they had tried to build up as the "new" Darth Vader. I still think Maul is my favorite Sith character, and probably the most interesting, which is why it's upsetting that George Lucas gave him the shaft.

The Supreme Leader Snokes doesn't have the same appeal to me as Palpatine/Sidious did, and looks too much like a Gollum/Voldemort Hybrid. Didn't seem as sinister or evil to me, or a threat to the galaxy, at least in this film.

Poe I liked...but for him to be the first character they introduced, he seemed much more like a side character - which is kind of upsetting. I had hoped for a bit more backstory from him. Though I do have a feeling he will develop into the Han Solo replacement character in the movies to come.

Finn could have been a better character in my opinion. I like the character and I like the actor, but there's something out of place about his character that I wish they had spent more time on, I just don't know what it is.

Captain Phasma - Utterly useless and pointless "Villian". I'm not even sure why they needed her at all. Such a cool trooper uniform and could have been more fleshed out as a character/villian. To be honest though, I was actually surprised for that character to be a female - not that it is a bad thing - Just caught me off guard.

Overall though, I'm a little disappointed in the whole First Order. They started off strong and fell completely short of my expectations by the end of the film. I guess I was somewhat hoping for this to end more like the Empire Strikes Back, an even darker ending than it did - one that forces Luke to return. I did enjoy the movie for the most part and think the franchise is on the right track. I think the trilogy defining film will be the next one. This movie set their playing field, how they play it is up to them...

 

[Aeroblyctos]

It was like the very first Starwars bring to this decade: a black colored guy as Han and a boring lady as Luke. It was a solid yet unmemorable movie, and it didn't bring anything new. Even Starwars I gave something new. The best thing were the effects: lightsaber effects and that missile which stopped in the middle of air.

3 / 5