Spell Opinion

[MN Lahmar]

Let's say we are playing the last chapter of the human campaign, the oracle chapter of the orc campaign or the chapter seven in the TFT undead campaign (campaign linear maps not open world like dota for example). What custom spells you think would fit the old spells of Illidan, Kael and Vashj?

 

[Chaosy]

Should be in the idea factory.

Personally I would give Illidan more Demon Hunter spells. I don't even think they have Mana Burn / Metamorphosis lore wise. Might want to check in with the loremasters' on that one though.
Kael'Thas originall skillset suits him well, the only spell I dislike is banish, it doesn't show that is an fire mage. Siphon Mana does not either but that is connected to the fact that he is a blood elf that hungers for mana.
I don't know about Vashj at all.

 

[Light]

not open world like dota for example

this made me chuckle.

also Illidan is a demon, so it makes sense that he has metamorphosis. i'd give Illidan skills that use his warblades, and a new skillset about demon stuff if he activates metamorphosis.

 

[Chaosy]

also Illidan is a demon, so it makes sense that he has metamorphosis.

No, it does not. Give me a source that confirms that Demon Hunters can turn into a demon type that don't even exist in game.

In WoW, Warlocks have this ability. Not Demon Hunters.

 

[PurgeandFire]

No, it does not. Give me a source that confirms that Demon Hunters can turn into a demon type that don't even exist in game.

In WoW, Warlocks have this ability. Not Demon Hunters.

Illidan is a special case because he took the skull of gul'dan back in the RoC campaign (the one where you kill Tichondrius). Demon hunters are all about using demonic power to fight demons, so metamorphosis fits in their skill set IMO.

Also, I'm going to move this to the idea factory.

 

[MN Lahmar]

this made me chuckle.

You knew what i meant by that? didn't you?
Also, you haven't helped with an answer.

 

[Nichilus]

No, it does not. Give me a source that confirms that Demon Hunters can turn into a demon type that don't even exist in game.

Since you ask so nicely, I will provide you with needed information.

... As a demon hunter grows in power, they undergo a gradual evolution, becoming more and more demonic in appearance.
... The demon hunter’s gradual evolution achieves its pinnacle as they become a demonic entity. Their appearance has changed to something frightening: The exact changes vary, but can include glowing red eyes; horns; clawed feet and hands; nonfunctioning wings; cloven hooves; a spiked tail; dark skin; a deep, rumbling voice; and similar cosmetic changes. The demon hunter becomes an outsider.

... At the pinnacle of evolution, Demon hunters can unleash the demon in them and turn themselves (temporarily) into something more. This is called Metamorphosis.

Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Demon_hunter

In WoW, Warlocks have this ability. Not Demon Hunters.

Really now? Let's take a look at some NPC from WoW. The NPCs below are fully trained Demon Hunters.
Alandien, Netharel, Theras, Varedis (Note while Varedis does not have the ability listed, he does use metamorphosis as shown in this video)
And of course the Illidan encounter in Black Citadel - he has his own phase where he is demon hunter.

Now the funny fact is: All these NPCs are add in patch 2.2.0, the warlock version of Metamorphosis is add in patch 3.0.2 as stated here: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Metamorphosis

Kael'Thas originall skillset suits him well, the only spell I dislike is banish, it doesn't show that is an fire mage. Siphon Mana does not either but that is connected to the fact that he is a blood elf that hungers for mana.

Kael'Thas is not a fire mage but Blood Mage, which is something a bit different. High Elves favored water and frost spells, as fire spells were seen something similar to demons (brought only destruction and demons use (fel)fire and shadow spells).
However Blood Elves embraced this magic, so they started favoring fire and shadow spells. I think the general idea here was to show what a Blood elf mage is like - he uses fire spells, but also siphons mana because of their hunger and banish foes like demons (who they later use to siphon mana from).

All in all, wow should not dictate how a class should behave. For example Warden uses Blink (mage spell) and Vengeance (an incarnation of hate and all that bad stuff which could basically be associated with shadow magic). Yet they're good-natured melee fighters, so where does that leave them?

Wow had to make standards for the playable classes to differentiate one from the other, it does not mean the non-player characters should be limited the same way. For example Archmage Xylem uses Frost, Fire and Shadow magic (necromancy).

 

[Dr Super Good]

Illidan, Kael

Take one of their Heroes of the Storm spells.

Kael'Thas is not a fire mage but Blood Mage, which is something a bit different.

Not sure if true? He is an Elemental Mage who studied at Dalaran and was very close friends with Jaina. I imagine that he learnt his Fire magic there similar to how Jaina learnt her water/ice magic. You can think of it as taking a different course/faculty in their education.

All the Blood Mage part of it means is that he draws magic from every source possible. Where as before the Sun Well was their main source of magical power, Blood Mages have several sources of magical power, some of which are demonic. They also can drain magical energy from victims and are semi-addicted to the "taste" of the magic they absorb.

All the power has obviously enhanced his fire magic to insane levels. Hence no normal fire mage could conjure what Kael does. However that would be the case if the Blood Mage was not a lame hero in WC3 (3 utility moves, only 1 direct damage which could be dodged). At least in Heroes of the Storm he has an awesome move set.

 

[SC_player]

illidan gets metamorphosis on the 2nd to last RoC level I thought once you get the skull of gul'dan. its not an ability like demon hunter ultimate but he just changes model for the rest of the level.

 

[Nichilus]

Not sure if true? He is an Elemental Mage who studied at Dalaran and was very close friends with Jaina. I imagine that he learnt his Fire magic there similar to how Jaina learnt her water/ice magic. You can think of it as taking a different course/faculty in their education.

How does that disprove what I wrote?
When Kael learned magic (assuming he didn't learn anything in Quel'Thalas yet), there were no undead and the Sunwell was still intact. It was a time when he was High Elf. Blood mage is sorcerer who turned from Kirin Tor's teaching (water/frost spells they got from the old high elves/highborne) to (demonic) fire. This whole Blood Mage thing started after the destruction of Sunwell.
It is logical that Kael may have been a mage who used different type of magic, but that does not necessarily mean he could not learn (and start preferring) other type of magic.
An example of such conversion is Kel'Thuzad, who was a part of the ruling body of Kirin Tor, but started experimenting with necromancy for which he was later expelled from Kirin Tor. As you can see, he had no limitation over magic he could learn and use.

illidan gets metamorphosis on the 2nd to last RoC level I thought once you get the skull of gul'dan. its not an ability like demon hunter ultimate but he just changes model for the rest of the level.

That is true, however the change was exactly the same as what happens with standard Metamorphosis (damage type changed to chaos, more health, etc.). In the map it was permanent tho.
Anyway, he appears later in Frozen Throne with the ultimate ability Metamorphosis. For me it seems he learned how to use such ability when he got the skull of Gul'dan.

 

[Dr Super Good]

How does that disprove what I wrote?

The High Elves used "fire rain from heaves" type magic to repel some attackers during their formation. They were not afraid to use fire magic since all magic was "demonic" in the eyes of their ancestors (hence why they where forced to leave the Night Elves to become the High Elves). Or so the lore used to say, I did read it before all the WoW revisions in the early days of WC3.

As such they had nothing against teaching fire magic. There were no rules against it in Dalaran where Kael learnt his magic. Even if he was not allowed to use such magic at home (I doubt it), he still could learn it at Dalaran since it was neither summoning demons nor necromancy.

It also serves as a minor plot device. Jaina had two boy friends, Arthras and Kael. I think she knew Arthras from a young age (because her father was an admiral). She knew Kael from her studies at Dalaran. It is implied that Jaina dumped Kael at some stage in preference to Arthras (who never went to Dalaran? I think he was trained as a Paladin under Uther hence why they knew each other from earlier). Her dumping a charming young and peaceful "water mage" just does not make sense. Instead Kael being a fire mage emphasizes that although they had much in common, they were too different for each other (her being Ice, him being Fire) which makes a lot more sense from a story point of view (even if it is kind of stupid).

Kael's personality of "burning" also emphasizes this. He studied fire because he likes fire as an element. He liked fire before the fall of his kingdom and liked it afterwards. What changed was the means by which he would go to get magic (all sources) and the use of his fire in aggression (burn everything in the way to ash).

 

[Nichilus]

Yea, they used fire magic to repel trolls when they founded Quel'Thalas, as fire stopped their fast regeneration.

Dunno about the plot between Kael, Jaina and Arthas. You are right about many things changing throughout WoW history, as Blizzard had to somehow fit some stuff to make sense, they had to change the lore.