Spell Making Contest #1

[Wizardum]

Contest theme:
1. Creating a triggered spell

Contest rules:
1. No spell may violate the site's rules.
2. Are allowed imported models.
3. No copy of already made spells
4. Spells must be in GUI
5. Spells must be multiinstanceable (MUI)
6. Completed spells must be attached to the contest thread.
7. Credits to authors of imports must be given in the contest thread allong with the already made spell.
8. The theme of the abilities are still in moderation.
9. The map must be unprotected.

Judging Criteria:
1. Is the spell MUI?
2. Is the spell made by GUI?
3. Does the spell lags?
4. How good are the effects?

Deadline:
7 days after the contest begin date.

Awards:
First Place: 30 rep
Second Place: 20rep
Third Place: 10 rep

 

[Pyritie]

2. Map size must be under 1Mb.

If a map for a simple spell got anywhere near 1MB I'd be very worried.

5. Spells must be in GUI

What's so bad about JASS?

9. The base theme of the abilities are blink, slam or spell channel.

Usually spell contests follow a theme, not being based off of an ability.

11. The spell can be done in WEU.

If you're thinking of the advanced triggers in WEU, please, don't use them. They leak all over the place and hardly work any more.

We already have spell contests every now and again in the Spells and Systems forum.

 

[Wizardum]

The map size was just to the interested ones on the contest don't abuse on the special effects models import and stuff

I'm participating in this contest too, and I don't know how to use JASS, at least yet, so I think it would be more balanced if all participants work on a GUI spell.

Ok, but I think making a spell based on another ability, brings the contest more originality, and brings us more original spells

It's optional if the spell is used on WEU or not, almost everyone knows that using advanced triggers lags pretty much, it's just a personal choice.

I didn't know that most of spell contests were there, I thought it was here where all contests should be posted.

 

[Daelin]

I'm participating in this contest too, and I don't know how to use JASS, at least yet, so I think it would be more balanced if all participants work on a GUI spell.

Crappy excuses. Because you can't comprehend JASS scripts I don't see you being a very good judge for a spell making contest. I wouldn't approve it as it is right now even in a million years! I'm curious though what the mods have to say about this...

And spells based on another ability? Again... laaaaame! Original is coming up with new spells and new ideas! This contest is terrible, and I MEAN IT! "Classical" contests can bring up some fabulous results, and they suddenly do not make the contest so "boring". Seriously now... why the hell make hundreds of variants of blink, when people can come up with many other things? You just limit the entries too much. Come up with a broader theme! Ice is a good theme! Spells based on Frost Nova is a lame theme (infact, it's not even a theme).

And another thing...

I'm participating in this contest too

Rrrright... both participant and judge. That sounds damn objective to me.

-Daelin

 

[Mini-Me]

And spells based on another ability? Again... laaaaame! Original is coming up with new spells and new ideas! This contest is terrible, and I MEAN IT! "Classical" contests can bring up some fabulous results, and they suddenly do not make the contest so "boring". Seriously now... why the hell make hundreds of variants of blink, when people can come up with many other things? You just limit the entries too much. Come up with a broader theme! Ice is a good theme! Spells based on Frost Nova is a lame theme (infact, it's not even a theme).

Agreed.

But I do like the idea of a GUI-spell contest. In every spell contest people always submit Jass spells because they think they can't win if the spell isnt in jass. Well, that also happens to be true . I learned Jass ages ago so I could pwn in spell contest (which I now have , ok well it wasnt the ONLY reason ).

A GUI-spell contest could be held as a mini contest on the spells&systems forum (similiar to for example the cinematic mini contest, map dev. mini contest etc.). That would level the playingfield a bit. Ofc the spell pro's can enter this contest too, but they would have to get down and dirty and make some GUI .

 

[moyackx]

Spell contest... in GUI only.... simply sucks. period.

 

[Daelin]

Spells... in GUI... simply suck! )

 

[Mini-Me]

What do you poop-heads know

 

[Pyritie]

The average GUI spell does suck, but only because the maker doesn't know how to use it to his/her full potential.

Sure, you can't exactly make Hash Table Reverse Unit Algorithms with it, but still.

 

[Wizardum]

What's the problem of don't know how to work on JASS? I'm trying to learn ok? All of you should be more polite.
And the contest being based on some abilities was on purpose, limit the entries bring some originality.
But I think this disagreement of my contest is just about the JASS.
Just because you don't want to work with GUI you don't need to talk that way. Maybe here is some oportunities to other members that don't know how to work with JASS enter and show what they are capable of. Next you should ask before offend. It's time to some maturity and respect to the other THW members, this is a community not fighting arena.
BTW not all spells in GUI sucks, some are very well made.

 

[Pyritie]

A GUI contest would be fine. I'd probably join it.

However, things like "you must base it on one of these abilities" is just silly.

 

[Daelin]

I wasn't talking about entries limits... Infact, you would get a lot, but because they are based off the same ability, they would be so similar to one another that the whole originality thingy would be lost! Exactly my point.

As for the lack of JASS experience, yes, it is a flaw when it comes to judging a contest. Seriously... I agree that it's nice to learn. But then leave someone else to judge this contest. Judges should be individuals who have lots of experience in the domain they are judging (in this case, spells). And yes, a good spellmaker can make some hell awsome stuff in GUI, but the coding would be simply disastruous (especially in terms of memory use, and not to mention all those useless BJ functions) and I could say the same about the implementability of the spell in another map. Loads of information to copy-paste. You don't know JASS? How about getting one those numerous tutorials and learning the language, step by step. Nagging is useless, learning has a purpose!

And don't talk to me about lack of maturity and respect. I've been through hell a lot of experiences that have required these from me, and you have no right to tell me that I lack these qualities... full stop!

-Daelin

 

[Pyritie]

You don't know JASS? How about getting one those numerous tutorials and learning the language, step by step. Nagging is useless, learning has a purpose!

I'm waiting for the class to reopen 8D

 

[Wizardum]

First I didn't say that I would be the judging one.
Second I talk about lack of maturity because no one here was treating each other with respect.
Third this is my first contest so I don't know some details of a contest. The contest submission asks for an idea and I gave mine, so the people that are interested may give suggestions but not judge for my contest inexperience. I saw the idea of making spells based on a ability in WC3C and the reaction there was great, then I thought that you people may be interested too, but maybe I was wrong.

 

[Wizardum]

BTW there is someone teaching me JASS personally, so I'm really trying to learn it

 

[Pyritie]

You mean the Mana Burn ability contest? That just meant it had to revolve around a mana burn theme, not necessarily be based off of the Mana Burn spell.

EDIT: And don't double post.

 

[Wizardum]

No it's another one, and had a wider list of base abilities.
Sorry for the double post, it won't happen again.

 

[Daelin]

BTW there is someone teaching me JASS personally, so I'm really trying to learn it

Well, then I am happy to hear that. I wish you good luck in your research. Maybe once you become more experienced, we'll get to see you in a spellmaking contest where you come up with some JASS coding. But nevertheless, good luck!

-Daelin

 

[Wizardum]

Thanks! I hope I will!

Btw this contest will be approved? make suggestions of what I would change to be approved

 

[PurplePoot]

This is basically a Zephyr contest with more restrictions as far as I can tell... May as well wait for the next Zephyr contest (IMO), it's coming soon anyways!

Anyways, the reason people are laughing at you for saying GUI only is that you're basically putting a handicap on everyone more experienced than you to artificially raise yourself to their level. It's the same thing as saying "No variables" if you don't know how to use them, or "No triggers" if you only know how to use the object editor. If the point of a Spell Contest is partially to show your experience and work at your full potential within that contest, then don't stop people from doing so!

 

[Hoernchen]

Actually, if you JASSers can't make a just as decent GUI spell as a spell in JASS (it might be a bit leakier and not work for more than 1 unit per player and so, but who cares) then you are pretty bad at spell making. It is more challenging to see who can twist and use GUI so much as to get functions you'd say aren't possible in GUI, but take a lot of work. I mean anyone can just use one JASS command, but to simulate that command in GUI, that takes skill.

 

[Pyritie]

then you are pretty bad at spell making.

I wouldn't say they're bad; they're just not as adept.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I do not want to see a GUI spell contest after having used JASS for so long.

So this probably will not get approved.

 

[HINDYhat]

This is very contradictory.

3. Does the spell lags?

Lag generally refers to memory leaks which, in GUI, are mostly locations and groups. It's difficult to make a spell lag without memory leaks (or really stupid huge loops). Sooooo...

4. Spells must be in GUI

Well, it turns out the functions for cleaning location and group leaks are only exclusive to Jass (and yes, Custom Scripts ARE Jass).
Thirdly, you say:

4. How good are the effects?

Well if you can't create effects on locations (because they will leak), then you must create them attached on units. Since you can't create units (the location will leak), you must use already existant units. In a unit-target spell, you could use either the caster or the target. In the case of a point or AoE spell, you could only use the caster, and can't use any "Pick every unit in BLAH" actions, due to the group leak.
Finally, this would limit us to really cheap instant-cast triggered spells... which means the spells submitted wouldn't be worthy of anything, and this can't work at all.

 

[Pyritie]

GUI + leak-removing-JASS contest then.

 

[Wizardum]

Anyways, the reason people are laughing at you for saying GUI only is that you're basically putting a handicap on everyone more experienced than you to artificially raise yourself to their level. It's the same thing as saying "No variables" if you don't know how to use them, or "No triggers" if you only know how to use the object editor. If the point of a Spell Contest is partially to show your experience and work at your full potential within that contest, then don't stop people from doing so!

But why all you think that this contest is just for experienced people? why other people can't join it? this community is open for all people and opportunities come to all, not for just the experienced ones, maybe I badly understood you due to my bad english, but in my opinion what you've said is a selfish thought PurplePoot.
I don't see what's the problem of making a spell contest in GUI, if you don't know how to work in GUI, don't answer in just your name and the people that work in JASS, but answer in the name of all.

 

[HINDYhat]

The problem is that it really doesn't take any skill to make a GUI spell (and even less based on the rules you set). The point of a contest is for people to make something impressive and great, and the best will win. Turns out that usually, the most experienced and skilled users are the ones who can make the best things.

And ANYWAY, as PurplePoot stated, a Zephyr contest is in the works, so this probably won't get approved anyway.

 

[Wizardum]

GUI + leak-removing-JASS contest then.

that's a good idea but since Dr Super Good won't approve a GUI spell contest, it doesn't worth nothing

 

[SuPa-]

Actually, if you JASSers can't make a just as decent GUI spell as a spell in JASS (it might be a lot leakier and not work for shit) then you are still good at spell making. It is more ignorant to see who can twist and use GUI so much as to get functions you'd say aren't possible in GUI, but take a lot of work, while JASS would take less than half as much time, be more efficient, and work more fluidly. I mean anyone can just use one JASS command, but to simulate that command in GUI and waste tons of time instead of just learn a bit of JASS, that takes some major retardation.

I fixed it for you, ;-)

I don't care much for triggering, but I agree that "GUI only" is just a handicap to disable JASSers from working to their full potential. Anyway, GUIers are giving themself a handy cap in competitions for not actually trying to learn better ways of triggering. You can't do a lot of stuff in GUI, but custom scripts stretch its potential out a little. Too bad custom scripts aren't really GUI So they would be disabled as well I imagine

 

[Wizardum]

I'm sure that you aren't talking about me because I'm learning JASS.

I'm quick learner, so do I delete this thread or it stay in stand by, and soon I'll update the contest? Or I update now and who's interested enters the contest (if approved)?
Please, all of you give ideas for spell's theme and other details that should be improved in this contest.

 

[PurplePoot]

But why all you think that this contest is just for experienced people? why other people can't join it? this community is open for all people and opportunities come to all, not for just the experienced ones, maybe I badly understood you due to my bad english, but in my opinion what you've said is a selfish thought PurplePoot.
I don't see what's the problem of making a spell contest in GUI, if you don't know how to work in GUI, don't answer in just your name and the people that work in JASS, but answer in the name of all.

A spell that is more technically excellent is not necessarily a better spell.

Check out some of the Spells&Systems Mini-Contests; GUI spells which are far lower quality than other Jass spells submitted in the same contest have triumphed a significant amount of the time. This happens because of two reasons:

• Often, a Jasser spends too much time on the Jass (specifically, making it pretty and clean) and not enough time on thinking out the spell. This means that the GUI spell, which was better thought out or more original, turns out much nicer ingame.
• I rate both Jass and GUI spells considering the limits of the editor used.

The trick is experimenting with the point balance so as to achieve a result that is not too biased.

Also, why, may I ask, does it make me selfish if I want to have the advantages I have taken a long time to acquire, as advantages? If anything, it makes those who want to have the same advantages as such a person without any hard work the selfish people. (Note: I do realize you are learning Jass, good luck with that!)

Actually, if you JASSers can't make a just as decent GUI spell as a spell in JASS (it might be a bit leakier and not work for more than 1 unit per player and so, but who cares) then you are pretty bad at spell making. It is more challenging to see who can twist and use GUI so much as to get functions you'd say aren't possible in GUI, but take a lot of work. I mean anyone can just use one JASS command, but to simulate that command in GUI, that takes skill.

Having to fight with a bad editor is a waste of time. Wasting your time takes skill? Even if 10% of the Jassers could get past the frustratingly bad GUI interface to actually start a spell in it, they will have most likely have deprogrammed their brain to use such an editor (and if they didn't, the quality would still, of course, be less than that of an equivalent Jass spell, thus being discouraging in the sense that you've done much more work than necessary to achieve less). Might I say that you are bad at spell making if you do not know Jass, because it is harder to learn? It really boils down to the same thing.

 

[Wizardum]

Ok I think I get it.
So I should then delete this contest?

 

[Wolverabid]

This is basically a Zephyr contest...

Indeed.

Look for Zephyr Challenge #4 to begin soon!

~ Thread moved to Submissions Archive.